SHOOTING at Mandalay festival
October 11th, 2017 at 10:14:06 PM
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Quote: WizardofnothingWho in their right mind would ever star at Mandalay Bay- it's beyond tainted forever
Not really.
MGM burned and many died: they recovered rather nicely.
"What, me worry?"
October 11th, 2017 at 11:15:34 PM
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Yea after rebuilding it and was a totally different situation
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
October 11th, 2017 at 11:41:07 PM
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Different facts, yes, but I think it will all blow over: no need to write off MB yet.
I wonder whether MB will repair and offer the shooter's lair to future guests?
If they do, I've no doubt many will want to stay there, for a bit of titillation and to feed their sense of morbid curiosity.
People are strange.
I wonder whether MB will repair and offer the shooter's lair to future guests?
If they do, I've no doubt many will want to stay there, for a bit of titillation and to feed their sense of morbid curiosity.
People are strange.
"What, me worry?"
October 11th, 2017 at 11:55:45 PM
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Went to a show at House of Blues and it seemed like business as usual at MB. Pretty eerie driving past all the Route 91 signs that are untouched.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 12th, 2017 at 1:17:59 AM
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I think that would cause way too much bad press for them. Headlines: MB takes an insensitive gamble while trying to cash in on the biggest mass shooting in US history.Quote: MrVDifferent facts, yes, but I think it will all blow over: no need to write off MB yet.
I wonder whether MB will repair and offer the shooter's lair to future guests?
If they do, I've no doubt many will want to stay there, for a bit of titillation and to feed their sense of morbid curiosity.
People are strange.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
October 12th, 2017 at 1:22:23 AM
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I'd imagine they will turn it into executive space, with the whole floor off limit to non -employees.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 12th, 2017 at 2:22:49 AM
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I think MGM will not be successfully sued. There's a gun show every weekend, a major one at least once a month. Nevada law is one of the least restricted. So they had people in rooms with their guns all the time.
I do expect a sizable victims' and survivors' fund will be offered. I bet 50-100 million.
Other parties, yes. Bump stocks were an attempt to skirt the law on full automatic restrictions in performance. There was a performance threshold understood by those legislators who passed the pertinent laws. The bump stock exceeded that threshold. So I think they will be found liable, assuming the stocks were fitted to any equipment newer than 1986. That's the argument I'd make, anyway.
Certainly the estate will be forfeited.
I would definitely try to get damages from the NRA. Not sure exactly how to frame the argument, but they have advocated and advanced this climate of no restrictions for mental illness, no background checks for private sales, no reasonable restrictions on arsenals (number and type of guns privately owned), ammo (in thousands or more, armor piercing, fmj's, etc), or peripherals (explosive target compounds, 50 or 100 round drums, 30 round banana clips, bump stocks, etc) All of those seem to be present.
I know a supervisor who was in the lunch room when a guy on his crew and his trainee were working aircraft in Spokane. They had their heads in the training manual, looking up a rule, and didn't notice the Learjet on final lined up and landed on a taxiway. The supervisor was fired for creating a climate in which they thought the traffic on final wasn't their highest priority. The trainer was demoted from being an instructor. Nothing happened to the trainee except a bad OJT report.
Fired for creating an unsafe climate. While eating lunch. Nobody even got hurt. And it held up in federal court. So it can be done.
Citizens United vs. US swings both ways. If the NRA is allowed to lobby for something with unsafe consequences, and against any guard on those OBVIOUS and FREQUENT consequences happening, then their speech should be actionable.
There's your deep pockets.
I do expect a sizable victims' and survivors' fund will be offered. I bet 50-100 million.
Other parties, yes. Bump stocks were an attempt to skirt the law on full automatic restrictions in performance. There was a performance threshold understood by those legislators who passed the pertinent laws. The bump stock exceeded that threshold. So I think they will be found liable, assuming the stocks were fitted to any equipment newer than 1986. That's the argument I'd make, anyway.
Certainly the estate will be forfeited.
I would definitely try to get damages from the NRA. Not sure exactly how to frame the argument, but they have advocated and advanced this climate of no restrictions for mental illness, no background checks for private sales, no reasonable restrictions on arsenals (number and type of guns privately owned), ammo (in thousands or more, armor piercing, fmj's, etc), or peripherals (explosive target compounds, 50 or 100 round drums, 30 round banana clips, bump stocks, etc) All of those seem to be present.
I know a supervisor who was in the lunch room when a guy on his crew and his trainee were working aircraft in Spokane. They had their heads in the training manual, looking up a rule, and didn't notice the Learjet on final lined up and landed on a taxiway. The supervisor was fired for creating a climate in which they thought the traffic on final wasn't their highest priority. The trainer was demoted from being an instructor. Nothing happened to the trainee except a bad OJT report.
Fired for creating an unsafe climate. While eating lunch. Nobody even got hurt. And it held up in federal court. So it can be done.
Citizens United vs. US swings both ways. If the NRA is allowed to lobby for something with unsafe consequences, and against any guard on those OBVIOUS and FREQUENT consequences happening, then their speech should be actionable.
There's your deep pockets.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
October 12th, 2017 at 2:31:18 AM
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Quote: billryanI'd imagine they will turn it into executive space, with the whole floor off limit to non -employees.
I think the only way to do it (keep the rest of the floor usable )would be to remove all the room walls, and set up an open, non-denominational lobby area where the suite was. A few benches, maybe a table with fresh flowers, possibly a plaque. No pictures.
Curtains or solid covering on the windows so people aren't encouraged to look out over the killing field from the shooter's POV.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
October 12th, 2017 at 2:54:59 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabs
Citizens United vs. US swings both ways. If the NRA is allowed to lobby for something with unsafe consequences, and against any guard on those OBVIOUS and FREQUENT consequences happening, then their speech should be actionable.
There's your deep pockets.
Well, since bribery is pretty much legal, I don't know how you can sue a business interest group for bribing politicians to write laws to their benefit since it's technically not bribery, because it's legal.
I mean, the Clintons have accepted hundreds of millions in personal payments. Not campaign contributions. Not lobbying. Checks deposited into their own banks accounts. As have the Bushes and many others. So are we going to lock them all up for taking bribes?
If these things are not bribes, then the law makers are acting of their own volition. Lobbying is merely access. Campaign contributions are merely efforts to promote politicians with whom they organically agree. That's the official story.
Since judges are appointed by politicians who participate in these innocent endeavors, I suspect they'll have no problem with it. They're probably even right. Every time a law results in some deaths, the companies benefiting from that law will be subject to a class action suit?
I don't know, maybe that would be some kind of work around to combat corruption.
October 12th, 2017 at 5:21:42 AM
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Two heads buried in a manual and neither of them looking out the window is bad attention to primary duties which is the air traffic.
At Mandalay we may be running into some real failures with both the guard and the engineer shouting over the radio that there are bullets being sprayed into the hallway and no one did anything at all.
At Mandalay we may be running into some real failures with both the guard and the engineer shouting over the radio that there are bullets being sprayed into the hallway and no one did anything at all.
October 12th, 2017 at 6:26:09 AM
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I wouldQuote: billryanI'd imagine they will turn it into executive space, with the whole floor off limit to non -employees.
(A) Make a memorial with the shooter's room, and allow people to visit, leave flowers/pictures/etc...
(B) I have no problem with allowing people to look from the two windows where shots were fired.
(C) Make on-going donations to reducing violence (with places in the memorial to donate).
(D) Rest of the floor. I like Billryan's ideas for executive space. No rooms for public on 32nd floor.
October 12th, 2017 at 8:19:01 AM
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I would restore the floor to it's pre-shootout condition then go back to business as usual. Don't set up any memorials or plaques in the hotel, there's nothing to remember there.
The owners of the lot across the street where the victims fell will have the problem of dealing with mourners setting up candles, pictures, and shrines.
The owners of the lot across the street where the victims fell will have the problem of dealing with mourners setting up candles, pictures, and shrines.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
October 12th, 2017 at 10:37:53 PM
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Citizens United? Money is speech. By denying lobbyists being able to give money to politicians, we would be denying them their 1st amendment right to free speech, ergo, bribery is legal.Quote: RigondeauxWell, since bribery is pretty much legal, I don't know how you can sue a business interest group for bribing politicians to write laws to their benefit since it's technically not bribery, because it's legal.
I mean, the Clintons have accepted hundreds of millions in personal payments. Not campaign contributions. Not lobbying. Checks deposited into their own banks accounts. As have the Bushes and many others. So are we going to lock them all up for taking bribes?
If these things are not bribes, then the law makers are acting of their own volition. Lobbying is merely access. Campaign contributions are merely efforts to promote politicians with whom they organically agree. That's the official story.
October 13th, 2017 at 6:43:25 AM
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Points that need resolving:
Are the recordings of security frequency and maintenance frequency on the same timer or separate ones.
Which computer clock indicates the 'door open alarm' ?
Without this data I'm going to be doubting any conclusory statements about what happened in that corridor and when it took place.
Stealing bathrobes or silver may annoy a hotel but lets face it, they focus on what is happening and some mass murder incident is not high on their list of things to watch for. No one concentrates on luggage being brought into the hotel at odd hours.
Are the recordings of security frequency and maintenance frequency on the same timer or separate ones.
Which computer clock indicates the 'door open alarm' ?
Without this data I'm going to be doubting any conclusory statements about what happened in that corridor and when it took place.
Stealing bathrobes or silver may annoy a hotel but lets face it, they focus on what is happening and some mass murder incident is not high on their list of things to watch for. No one concentrates on luggage being brought into the hotel at odd hours.
October 13th, 2017 at 10:41:56 AM
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Quote: petroglyphCitizens United? Money is speech. By denying lobbyists being able to give money to politicians, we would be denying them their 1st amendment right to free speech, ergo, bribery is legal.
Corruption. That's what it is. And an imperfect constitution. The whole point of congress and senate is to represent its constituents. They are elected by people (corporations do not have a vote, yet) and then they are influenced by major lobbies to do the wrong thing. When the First Amendment is used to guarantee that small voices will not be heard, there is a problem.
But that has been going on for centuries all around the world. The solution of course is to limit lobbying and their influence.
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Looks like they are adjusting the timeline again. Conspiracy theorists are having a field day. And they should be.
- If the security guard was shot at before the shooting started, why did the cops have to figure out what room it was coming from? Clearly MB security was not communicating with the group of law enforcement looking for the shooter.
In any case, likely mayhem ensued for MB security. Security guards are not at the top of the intelligence heap. To go from the mundane tasks of opening people's room, taking reports of lost and stolen items, and occasional walking rounds to all-out-mayhem would have created all kinds of timing and reporting errors.
Kind of like 9/11. You expect humans to operate perfectly in times of crisis and that's easy to do from your home 2,000 miles away in retrospect. But at the heat of the moment, when shots are raining on a crowd, and you, as the head of security on a night shift (or late afternoon shift) at MB get something like this, unless you are absolutely trained for events like this (they are not) they are going to screw things up.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
October 13th, 2017 at 11:33:47 AM
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Sort of odd that many of the high ranking officials of the MGM corporation sold a great deal of their stock holdings in the past few months, with a great deal of activity on 10/7/17. Perhaps it's just an odd coincidence.
October 13th, 2017 at 11:35:30 AM
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I'm not so sure about that. MB and other casinos have some good people working at the top of the security chain. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't have a few ex- FBI agents or retired Senior Metro Officers in those positions. They have a lot more training than you are giving them credit for.
In the fog of war, officers responding to the Route 91 shootings couldn't have known the shooter wasn't inside the grounds or that there was only one shooter. Just trying to get into the MB property must have been chaotic ,at best.
I'm sure 911 was flooded with calls . Hell, people were panicking a mile away at Caesars. It's easy to look back and see a shooting on the 32nd floor of MB and the shooting across the street were related, but at the time they could easily be thought of as two separate incidents, with one having priority over the other.
Picture yourself as head of the security shift. You have a shooter on an upper floor. You have shooting, if not shooters across the street. You have an entire property with thousands of guests to protect. How do you know the two incidents aren't the start of a well coordinated attack by multiple assailants. What's your first response? Rush your assets to the 32nd floor or prepare everyone for the next ball to drop? What happens if your limited number of armed guards are on the 32nd floor when people start shooting up the casino?
In the fog of war, officers responding to the Route 91 shootings couldn't have known the shooter wasn't inside the grounds or that there was only one shooter. Just trying to get into the MB property must have been chaotic ,at best.
I'm sure 911 was flooded with calls . Hell, people were panicking a mile away at Caesars. It's easy to look back and see a shooting on the 32nd floor of MB and the shooting across the street were related, but at the time they could easily be thought of as two separate incidents, with one having priority over the other.
Picture yourself as head of the security shift. You have a shooter on an upper floor. You have shooting, if not shooters across the street. You have an entire property with thousands of guests to protect. How do you know the two incidents aren't the start of a well coordinated attack by multiple assailants. What's your first response? Rush your assets to the 32nd floor or prepare everyone for the next ball to drop? What happens if your limited number of armed guards are on the 32nd floor when people start shooting up the casino?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 13th, 2017 at 12:44:10 PM
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Quote: boymimboThe solution of course is to eliminate lobbying and their influence.
Fixed that for you.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
October 13th, 2017 at 1:49:23 PM
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I don't know what difference this might make to the timeline, but security may have at first assumed they had a crazy person holed up in one of their rooms with no thought to idea he was planning to start shooting out the windows.
Not that it really should have made a difference whether he was a danger to just a few people in vicinity of his room vs. hundreds 3 football fields away. I mean the response should be urgent either way.
(my first thought would have just been confined to the room or floor, perhaps murdered people in room. Ex-spouse break into wedding parties events - some personal craziness like that)
Not that it really should have made a difference whether he was a danger to just a few people in vicinity of his room vs. hundreds 3 football fields away. I mean the response should be urgent either way.
(my first thought would have just been confined to the room or floor, perhaps murdered people in room. Ex-spouse break into wedding parties events - some personal craziness like that)
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 13th, 2017 at 1:52:32 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: boymimboThe solution of course is to eliminate lobbying and their influence.
Fixed that for you.
I suggest all reps wear 24 hour body cameras like police. We get to review them if there is any funny business.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 14th, 2017 at 12:10:08 AM
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Wounded security guard was a no-show on a major news program.
October 14th, 2017 at 12:10:09 AM
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Wounded security guard was a no-show on a major news program.
October 14th, 2017 at 12:40:53 AM
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Ever read Greg Palast? He writes some good reads. But this was a surprise, that he went to school with Paddock: http://www.gregpalast.com/went-school-vegas-shooter/
October 14th, 2017 at 10:58:33 AM
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Good read, fails to take into account mental illness that can strike anyone at anytime.
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You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
October 14th, 2017 at 11:20:06 AM
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I think it strikes a great many but the coping skills suddenly evaporate in a few.Quote: boymimboGood read, fails to take into account mental illness that can strike anyone at anytime.
October 14th, 2017 at 11:20:06 AM
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I'd still like to know if they tested for Toxoplasmoa gondii in his brain. And I'm getting impatient with that timeline nonsense.
October 14th, 2017 at 11:59:32 AM
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I finally realize that, I am the only one that is normal.Quote: boymimboGood read, fails to take into account mental illness that can strike anyone at anytime.
October 15th, 2017 at 10:43:43 PM
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Ann Coulter says
[...]
http://www.anncoulter.com/
Actually, Paddock is quoted as saying the opportunities weren't as good in Vegas as they used to be, so he wasn't visiting to play as much.
Quote:Now the media are just taunting us with their tall tales about Stephen Paddock, the alleged Las Vegas shooter. Reputedly serious news organizations are claiming that he made a living playing video poker. That's like claiming someone made a living smoking crack.
[...]
Quote:If Paddock wasn't making money on video poker -- and he wasn't -- why would he be cycling millions of dollars through a casino, turning every dollar into, at best, 99 cents?
http://www.anncoulter.com/
Actually, Paddock is quoted as saying the opportunities weren't as good in Vegas as they used to be, so he wasn't visiting to play as much.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 15th, 2017 at 11:47:54 PM
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He was turning every dollar into 99 cents and a chance at an occasional 'extra' royal that might push him over into positive territory. As with any Video Poker player these days, it was a pass time that when combined with free booze and free rooms and free food was something he found enjoyable.
All those blueies turn a dollar into anywhere from 99 cent to 101 cents all day long, get free drinks and free food also, but the little old ladies playing Bingo with their social security checks are not demonized. Its something to do, its air conditioned and its more fun than a retirement home.
Was he a drunkard? Sssshh. We say alcoholic now. Casinos are afloat with booze. All of them. Even those little old ladies get free drinks although some casinos have a rule of just coffee, tea and fruit juices for the first game of the day.
Was he in the plus column? Well, its better than the retirement home with its free geritol. He had "The Buzz", the freebies, the gorgeous women, the festive atmosphere and perhaps the next spin would be a Royal. He didn't have to trek south of Vegas to Geritol Country, he didn't have to go to a cheap, bottom-feeding casino. he went to first tier casinos and he went to their high roller rooms. Nothing wrong about his lifestyle. He enjoyed it. As do thousands of others.
All those blueies turn a dollar into anywhere from 99 cent to 101 cents all day long, get free drinks and free food also, but the little old ladies playing Bingo with their social security checks are not demonized. Its something to do, its air conditioned and its more fun than a retirement home.
Was he a drunkard? Sssshh. We say alcoholic now. Casinos are afloat with booze. All of them. Even those little old ladies get free drinks although some casinos have a rule of just coffee, tea and fruit juices for the first game of the day.
Was he in the plus column? Well, its better than the retirement home with its free geritol. He had "The Buzz", the freebies, the gorgeous women, the festive atmosphere and perhaps the next spin would be a Royal. He didn't have to trek south of Vegas to Geritol Country, he didn't have to go to a cheap, bottom-feeding casino. he went to first tier casinos and he went to their high roller rooms. Nothing wrong about his lifestyle. He enjoyed it. As do thousands of others.
October 16th, 2017 at 7:41:06 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffWell, its better than the retirement home with its free geritol.
For some, perhaps, but there are many residents in assisted living facilities who genuinely enjoy the ability to interact / socialize with others without going to a casino.
Oh sure, casino nights can be fun, as are occasional trips to a casino for those who enjoy casinos, but many retired folks still view casino gambling as a waste of time and money.
Oh, the geritol is far from "free," as assisted living rates start at $5K and quickly go up from there for a decent place.
"What, me worry?"
October 16th, 2017 at 9:51:55 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffWounded security guard was a no-show on a major news program.
He canceled his Hannity interview
No way I would ever go on Hannity
I think its a great move
Hannity is so pro gun, no way I would trust him to conduct an unbiased interview
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
October 16th, 2017 at 10:56:44 AM
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I don't care if its a rabid pro-gun guy or a rabid anti-gun type: I want him to publically respond to:
Where were you when you sent to an open door alarm check?
How long did it take you to get to the 32nd floor?
At what time and place were you on the receiving end of a firearm incident?
At what time did you inform your supervisor via your radio that you happened to notice you had a bullet in your leg?
Who else was on that frequency at the time?
Did you hear the maintenance engineer radio his supervisor about dozens of rounds fired into the hallway?
What time was this?
Do you know if the maintenance supervisor seemed to be curious about the incident?
Heck, the Baltimore Sun came right out and accused Mandalay Bay of concocting a false report why are we not hearing from dumb-jerk, minimum wage security guard who should probably be the best source as to when he got shot.
Six minutes, forty seconds.... quite a difference in response times but still no evidence disclosed to support anything.
Where are those radio tapes? Where are the timing codes? Did other guards who were on roving patrol assignments do anything when they heard reports of gunfire over the frequency. It would seem to be a matter that might interest them slightly.
Where were you when you sent to an open door alarm check?
How long did it take you to get to the 32nd floor?
At what time and place were you on the receiving end of a firearm incident?
At what time did you inform your supervisor via your radio that you happened to notice you had a bullet in your leg?
Who else was on that frequency at the time?
Did you hear the maintenance engineer radio his supervisor about dozens of rounds fired into the hallway?
What time was this?
Do you know if the maintenance supervisor seemed to be curious about the incident?
Heck, the Baltimore Sun came right out and accused Mandalay Bay of concocting a false report why are we not hearing from dumb-jerk, minimum wage security guard who should probably be the best source as to when he got shot.
Six minutes, forty seconds.... quite a difference in response times but still no evidence disclosed to support anything.
Where are those radio tapes? Where are the timing codes? Did other guards who were on roving patrol assignments do anything when they heard reports of gunfire over the frequency. It would seem to be a matter that might interest them slightly.
October 16th, 2017 at 12:30:44 PM
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I should think that his silence is orchestrated by the lawyers for MGM's insurance carrier.
People have already filed lawsuits against MGM, claiming negligence.
Smart move to muzzle all employees.
People have already filed lawsuits against MGM, claiming negligence.
Smart move to muzzle all employees.
"What, me worry?"
October 16th, 2017 at 12:43:08 PM
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Conspiracy theories are running rampant online that the security guard was in on it, possibly a 2nd shooter, etc.
I have no idea if they've been brought up in this thread, as I kind of tuned out for a few days.
So I can understand the interest in why he isn't doing interviews.
I have no idea if they've been brought up in this thread, as I kind of tuned out for a few days.
So I can understand the interest in why he isn't doing interviews.
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
October 16th, 2017 at 12:50:05 PM
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The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. His union should provide him with an attorney if he is under any pressure from MGM to wear a muzzle.Quote: MrVSmart move to muzzle all employees.
He could make a year's alary in a minute for an interview.
October 16th, 2017 at 1:11:58 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffThe truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. His union should provide him with an attorney if he is under any pressure from MGM to wear a muzzle.
He could make a year's alary in a minute for an interview.
what reputable news organizations pay for interviews?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
October 16th, 2017 at 1:24:15 PM
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Quote: 100xOddsQuote: FleaStiffThe truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. His union should provide him with an attorney if he is under any pressure from MGM to wear a muzzle.
He could make a year's alary in a minute for an interview.
what reputable news organizations pay for interviews?
Would it really matter if the interview is done on a tabloid show like Inside Edition or with an established interviewer from one of the networks?
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
October 16th, 2017 at 1:41:05 PM
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Quote: ams288Conspiracy theories are running rampant online that the security guard was in on it, possibly a 2nd shooter, etc.
I have no idea if they've been brought up in this thread, as I kind of tuned out for a few days.
So I can understand the interest in why he isn't doing interviews.
I’m not much for conspiracy theories, but what was the reason given for the second broken window?
October 16th, 2017 at 1:56:44 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffThe truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Watch the movie Roshomon
Quote: FleaStiffHis union should provide him with an attorney if he is under any pressure from MGM to wear a muzzle.
Does he belong to a Union?
If he does, maybe the union is looking out for his best interests.
With all the lawsuits flying around, he may have to hire a lawyer
If he has a lawyer, I am sure the lawyer is advising no interviews. All good lawyers say that.
Quote: FleaStiff
He could make a year's alary in a minute for an interview.
How much does Hannity pay?
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
October 16th, 2017 at 2:57:25 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffI don't care if its a rabid pro-gun guy or a rabid anti-gun type: I want him to publically respond to:
Where were you when you sent to an open door alarm check? 9:59
How long did it take you to get to the 32nd floor? Couple of minutes
At what time and place were you on the receiving end of a firearm incident? In the hallway
At what time did you inform your supervisor via your radio that you happened to notice you had a bullet in your leg? I don't know, I was busy watching my blood spill out
Who else was on that frequency at the time? No idea
Did you hear the maintenance engineer radio his supervisor about dozens of rounds fired into the hallway? There was gunfire, hard to hear much of anything except my heart beating
What time was this? I don't know. I was shot.
Do you know if the maintenance supervisor seemed to be curious about the incident? WTF? I'm a security guard. Who is the maintenance Supervisor?
Heck, the Baltimore Sun came right out and accused Mandalay Bay of concocting a false report why are we not hearing from dumb-jerk, minimum wage security guard who should probably be the best source as to when he got shot.
Six minutes, forty seconds.... quite a difference in response times but still no evidence disclosed to support anything.
Where are those radio tapes? Where are the timing codes? Did other guards who were on roving patrol assignments do anything when they heard reports of gunfire over the frequency. It would seem to be a matter that might interest them slightly.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 16th, 2017 at 3:47:32 PM
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Miscellaneous matters.
ALL security guards at Mandalay Bay belong to a union.
I'm not sure if "reputable" and "news agency" can be used together anymore, its almost all tabloid news and all news departments seem entertainment driven.
Once the checkbook comes out, the interviewee's next question is always "what do you want me to say".
This low wage guy could easily get big bucks and go ping ponging back and forth to several shows, each disclosing the payment or his status as a "consultant" which is a euphemism for "we paid him but ain't gonna tell you how much".
If he talks he loses his job but not right away. If he does not talk, he probably suffers the same fate once the dust settles.
Even if his story backs up management all the way, he is on his way out. He might as well leave with some "lettuce".
ALL security guards at Mandalay Bay belong to a union.
I'm not sure if "reputable" and "news agency" can be used together anymore, its almost all tabloid news and all news departments seem entertainment driven.
Once the checkbook comes out, the interviewee's next question is always "what do you want me to say".
This low wage guy could easily get big bucks and go ping ponging back and forth to several shows, each disclosing the payment or his status as a "consultant" which is a euphemism for "we paid him but ain't gonna tell you how much".
If he talks he loses his job but not right away. If he does not talk, he probably suffers the same fate once the dust settles.
Even if his story backs up management all the way, he is on his way out. He might as well leave with some "lettuce".
October 16th, 2017 at 4:05:20 PM
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Quote: gamerfreakI’m not much for conspiracy theories, but what was the reason given for the second broken window?
I heard, read, or perhaps mis-remembered there being two broken windows at Mandalay as well as a broken window at another property (Bellagio, I think). I'm NOT saying either are true, simply that I remember reading it. Could have come from a fake news site.
Snopes says this on the subject, assuming this is what you're referencing, gamerfreak: http://www.snopes.com/second-gunman-shoot-fourth-floor-mandalay-bay/
I just read the first few paragraphs then got lazy/bored with the article.
Actually just searched Google images and it looks like both windows broken were on the 32'nd floor. Another image looks like both windows belong to a suite and attached room.
Although one thing that kinda "worries" me (in a conspiracy-type way) is the pictures of the guns inside the hotel room. To me, it seems most logical to have the guns in a nice clean stack then discarded nearby once he ran out of ammunition, to grab the next one, rinse wash repeat. Instead, we see the guns are all spread around the room, or so it seems. Not much on Google images as far as pictures of the room. Also, it seems like it'd make more sense for Paddock to have a few guns with a bunch of pre-loaded magazines, instead of 20+ guns. I know the gun barrel can get really hot and with enough continuous use may even cause serious problems with the gun, but my gut tells me an AK-47 can handle that, considering you can bury it in mud and shoot it without any problems.
I don't blame anyone for not talking to reporters. You say one tiny thing that you don't think is important and that one thing can be cause for a lawsuit, unwanted media attention, or any other bit of negativity. To quote Breaking Bad, "I woke up, I found her dead, that's all I know."
October 16th, 2017 at 4:24:33 PM
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Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
October 16th, 2017 at 5:26:47 PM
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I think he wanted to be prepared for shooting from different vantage points and also to have weaponry available with which to defend his own position from a SWAT attack. He MAY have started shooting into the crowd before he was quite ready IF that security guard on Open Door duty wandered by and he interpreted a guard showing up and being focused on him.
As to believing official statements, the lack of transparency is crucial ... there can be errors and omissions and later corrections but they have to be sourced to more than just 'the sheriff spouts xxxxxxx'. Radio tapes have to be cited if not actually played. Computer printouts have to be cited. Confirmatory data has to be revealed.
As to believing official statements, the lack of transparency is crucial ... there can be errors and omissions and later corrections but they have to be sourced to more than just 'the sheriff spouts xxxxxxx'. Radio tapes have to be cited if not actually played. Computer printouts have to be cited. Confirmatory data has to be revealed.
October 16th, 2017 at 6:40:15 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffI think he wanted to be prepared for shooting from different vantage points and also to have weaponry available with which to defend his own position from a SWAT attack.
Yeah, 3 or 4 of the "bump stock" guns near a piles of ammunition is all he really heeded for the outside shooting and overheating or jamming. So might as well spread the rest around for other contingencies.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 16th, 2017 at 8:32:49 PM
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Seems hotel phone operators quickly narrowed the location as floors 29 thru 32.
One cop kept reporting muzzle flashes as a strobe light thus negating attempts to locate the shooter.
Cops were fixated on multiple shooters, perhaps due to number of victims.
Guard did not take a bullet, he got shrapnel in his leg.
One cop kept reporting muzzle flashes as a strobe light thus negating attempts to locate the shooter.
Cops were fixated on multiple shooters, perhaps due to number of victims.
Guard did not take a bullet, he got shrapnel in his leg.
October 16th, 2017 at 8:32:50 PM
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Seems hotel phone operators quickly narrowed the location as floors 29 thru 32.
One cop kept reporting muzzle flashes as a strobe light thus negating attempts to locate the shooter.
Cops were fixated on multiple shooters, perhaps due to number of victims.
Guard did not take a bullet, he got shrapnel in his leg.
One cop kept reporting muzzle flashes as a strobe light thus negating attempts to locate the shooter.
Cops were fixated on multiple shooters, perhaps due to number of victims.
Guard did not take a bullet, he got shrapnel in his leg.
October 16th, 2017 at 10:26:03 PM
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Two GoFundMe accounts for the wounded Security Guard have now surpassed $50,000 and he is on paid leave.
The money being raised is becoming problematic. One fund says it is raising money to help bury victims, but Zappos has already said they would cover them. Another is raising money to help pay medical bills but that is also covered. One fund , when you dig into it, is actually trying to raise money to buy lunches for the ER personnel.
Neither GoFundMe nor most credit cards are waiving their fees so they are taking over a million and a half dollars of donations just in fees. Nevada law Enforcement is looking into a number of shady fundraising efforts.
Meanwhile no one has determined who qualifies as being eligible for any of these funds. Almost 550 injured, but only a fraction of them had gunshot wounds.
The money being raised is becoming problematic. One fund says it is raising money to help bury victims, but Zappos has already said they would cover them. Another is raising money to help pay medical bills but that is also covered. One fund , when you dig into it, is actually trying to raise money to buy lunches for the ER personnel.
Neither GoFundMe nor most credit cards are waiving their fees so they are taking over a million and a half dollars of donations just in fees. Nevada law Enforcement is looking into a number of shady fundraising efforts.
Meanwhile no one has determined who qualifies as being eligible for any of these funds. Almost 550 injured, but only a fraction of them had gunshot wounds.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
October 16th, 2017 at 11:44:56 PM
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People will run scams off the dead, sick, injured, children or whatever. Just have to be careful before you start throwing your money at something to help. and make sure it's legitimate.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
October 17th, 2017 at 12:00:43 AM
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Murren, the CEO of MGM, parent company of Mandalay sold 80% of his stock just prior to the shooting in spite of a buyback program in effect and a positive report on the stock. Soros shorted 42 million dollars worth of MGM stock as well, prior to the shooting. Coincidence?
