100xOdds
100xOdds
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May 1st, 2017 at 2:36:09 PM permalink
odiousgambit,

for me, it was the opposite, at least in the beginning.

I love playing craps, thus my username.
i didn't care about comps.
i played because i liked the game.

then I discovered e-Craps and with it, comps.

I loved that game so much (speed, no players arguing with dealers, can press bets in weird increments like Place $492 on the 6/8, no tipping, etc) that I did ~$1M coin-in (including odds which counted towards rewards points) in a year.

i made their 2nd highest tier level and discovered a world with a whole bunch of perks.
the only 2 i used were the free food in the VIP lounge and 'free' cruises.
the food quality beat Caesar's Diamond lounges by a mile.
and as the cherry on top, i was up $5k!

then the next year the casino doubled the coin-in for a rewards point on the e-Craps machine. :(
that was the last time i seriously played Craps.

that was because a Caesars opened up near me.
made Diamond playing VP and haven't looked back at the other casino except for Poker.
Competition works! :)

Plus my positive variance streak was still going by being up +$1k with no Royal in doing the DiaD!

then made Aspirations Lvl 1 for 2 years in a row although the 2nd year i did lose $ getting it.
but i had fun playing that VP game.
now that they no longer offer 5k TC towards next year's score for making Aspirations Lvl 1, im not going to try this year.

so yes, i now take comps into consideration when playing.
i find playing a game i like (VP) + comps (free food/rooms) provides a more fun experience than playing a game i love (e-Craps).

now my thought process might be different if i was losing $ such that I've more than paid full price for the free food/comps...
Last edited by: 100xOdds on May 1, 2017
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Wizardofnothing
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May 1st, 2017 at 6:15:06 PM permalink
Some
Of the best plays I have been on where for comps-
It just depends on what the comps are for and good on
Mohegan sun has a mall to use the comps
At one point there was a huge play and I ended up with 80k in comps at a cost of 7k in ev
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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May 2nd, 2017 at 6:10:44 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

odiousgambit,... yes, i now take comps into consideration when playing.



Well, I am being put into the position of defending any and all cases that are an exception to the general concept. But I can't pull that off.

What I can say is the expression is one that newcomers to casino gambling need to hear. The closer the player resembles a ploppy the more he needs to hear it. The more he resembles a smarter player, the more he figures it out himself [for the classic case of increasing theoretical losses on purpose, beyond what he needs for entertainment, to get actual lessor values in comps as a result]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
100xOdds
100xOdds
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May 2nd, 2017 at 6:47:21 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

for the classic case of increasing theoretical losses on purpose, beyond what he needs for entertainment, to get actual lessor values in comps as a result


ahh.. that's what you mean by 'playing for comps.'
playing beyond your normal entertainment quota for that shiny object the casino is dangling in front of you.

I used to do that often but in poker.
at a CET casino, they used to give 50 TC per hr for poker.
10hrs = 500tc +125 bonus tc
(they have since cut it back to 17tc per hr.. sigh)

my normal play limit is 6-8hrs at the poker table.
after that, it's gets to be a chore because sitting for that long gets to be tiring on the body.
but i'll stick it out to 10hrs to get the extra 125 tc.

I guess it wasnt -EV on my bankroll since im apparently better than the avg low limit casino poker player as evidenced by my poker win/loss diary.
but it was -EV on my body.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
MDawg
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March 28th, 2019 at 7:36:53 PM permalink
I used to play very big, not to the point where I got the million dollar Villas at say Bellagio, but to where I could pull down the penthouses at Bellagio and one or two other top Strip casinos simultaneously, to where I'd get a standard room in a casino I wasn't staying at while playing just to use its bathroom because I didn't want to go to the public bathroom.

I took a very long hiatus (well over a decade) from gambling because real life intervened, and I was no longer interested in putting all the energy into gaming, even though I did manage to quit ahead.

I started up again in 2018. Four trips later, mostly spent at Encore Vegas and the Cosmopolitan, I find that Vegas is not comp'ing as readily as they used to. Granted I am not playing at nearly the same level (back then I'd average a few thousand a hand, nowadays more like a few hundred, although my credit lines are as high or higher than they were back then ($50K) and I WILL play up to a few thousand dollars on a hand when I am press/winning), but anyway - some of my observations are:

1. Back then, getting RFB status wasn't as difficult as it is now. Nowadays they will comp the room/suite pretty readily, but want to wait until after they see your play to decide whether to comp the food.

2. At some resorts, like Encore, they want to nickel and dime you for things like "resort" fees, which practically did not even exist back when I used to play big. They don't seem to want to comp these "little things" every trip.

3. Back then they would comp all spa charges off my bills. Nowadays, okay, I get it, I'm not a whale (or even mini-whale), so her $600. treatments and massages are not going to disappear off the bill, but how about comp'ing off these average $40. - $65. "day passes" to the spa, which are softer than soft. Back then no VIP PAID to go to the spa just to take a steam / sauna, it was always comp'ed off. "Spa use" charges are pretty soft.

4. They don't seem to like you to stay (at least not on a room/suite comp) as long as they used to. Back then I would think nothing of staying at the Bellagio penthouse, or the 2nd largest suite at the Venetian, for two weeks at a time. Nowadays, after I've stayed over ten days they start talking about how my line is only $50K and that's all they may win from me (not that they are going to get that from me anyway, I have gone home a winner after every single trip since returning to gambling in 2018), and joking about giving me a "Nevada resident card" if I stay any longer.

5. Trying to get extra rooms for friends/family, nowadays not only are they tighter about it, but they want you to be present in the hotel during their check in. Back then, I'd call my host and he'd hook up whomever I wanted with a free room, and if it was family, he'd put them on RFB status even knowing I wasn't coming into town. Again, I get it, I'm no longer playing as big as I used to, but obviously my play is good enough to get a free suite for three weeks straight in Vegas (which is how long we stayed last trip between Encore and Cosmopolitan), so what's the big deal about throwing in a couple standard room nights for friends/family even if I am not present.

Again, granted we are talking about different levels of play - I played 10x harder back then, than now, but then again, nowadays we are staying in much smaller suites, and I'm not ordering comp'ed $800. shots of cognac for friends - we're living relatively modestly in Vegas in suites under 1000 square feet, and not eating $200 - 300. meals nightly.

Has anyone else, who is an old timer with gambling noticed the clamping up? Maybe I notice it the most because I LEFT for so long, and am now back, so the differences are right in my face.

Another big difference is that back then, they'd only seem to get annoyed when I won BIG (six figures), nowadays they seem to get annoyed at me just for leaving a winner, since it is happening so consistently. No one is SAYING anything, they all clap me on the back and say Job Well Done, but if they're so happy, why do some of the well wishers look like someone just stuck lemon juice in their beer?
beachbumbabs
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March 28th, 2019 at 7:54:05 PM permalink
MDawg,

I've been to Vegas several dozen times over 30 years now, and though I never rolled as big as you, I'm definitely seeing that same deterioration / cheapening.

IMO, things tightened up greatly in the last 15 years, accelerating more recently. This corresponded with the computer evaluation of your value going from a data point to the almost-complete determiner. They took away nearly all discretion from pit bosses and hosts. I would guess most of those folks would like that discretion back, but it seems to be a one-way change.

It also corresponds with the rise of non-gaming basis for taking people's entertainment dollar. $100+ show tickets, gourmet restaurants and foodies, $500 bottle clubs and $100 cover charges to a dj...the gaming revenue has dropped precipitously by percentage. So they're capturing all those extra charges and nickel -diming the casual and many middle-fish players right out of their businesses.

Seems to me like an opportunity. Hope someone recognizes the value of hospitality and good gaming pretty soon and brings it back.

I'm remembering Bob Stupak in the 70s and into the 80s, and his full-page ads in Parade Magazine and TV Guide, inviting the whole family for $99 dollar packages that included 2 nights, buffets both nights, $100 free play, etc. It was just a wow that he could afford to do that, and I think he brought in hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people who thought theY could never afford Vegas.

That on top of the .99 shrp cocktails, 1.99 steak and egg breakfasts, all the rest that have all but disappeared
Those were the days. ..
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MDawg
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March 28th, 2019 at 7:56:34 PM permalink
Hi Babs - right! that's true. They've gotten so used to making money off non-gaming (parking, resort fees, NIGHTCLUBS, restaurants, etc.) that they are hard pressed to not collect such real world money from players.

And your post reminded me of another thing that happened last trip. I don't smoke but wanted to get a cigar for a family member, from the cigarette girl. The other player at my $100. minimum Baccarat table was a smoker and wanted a pack of cigarettes. They made a big deal out of getting approval on the computer for both of us, and even asked me if I was going to smoke it myself, which at first I answered honestly, NO! it's for _____ at which point the pit boss, who was friendly, told me to "change your answer" (which I did), but anyway, bottom line I had already tipped the cig girl a $5. chip and had to wait nearly ten minutes before I got the cigar.

I could half understand the $50. cigar, but the pack of Marlboros for the other player? Same rigamarole.

Later the dealer told me "not to take it personally" that it was like that all over the Strip now - that the pit bosses could no longer comp any food, and even for little things like this had to get computer approval against my account. I half expected to see a bill for the cigar at checkout (but luckily, no).
Last edited by: MDawg on Mar 28, 2019
darkoz
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March 28th, 2019 at 8:21:30 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Hi Babs - right! that's true. They've gotten so used to making money off non-gaming (parking, resort fees, NIGHTCLUBS, restaurants, etc.) that they are hard pressed to not collect such real world money from players.

And your post reminded me of another thing that happened last trip. I don't smoke but wanted to get a cigar for a family member, from the cigarette girl. The other player at my $100. minimum Baccarat table was a smoker and wanted a pack of cigarettes. They made a big deal out of getting approval on the computer for both of us, and even asked me if I was going to smoke it myself, which at first I answered honestly, NO! it's for _____ at which point the pit boss, who was friendly, told me to "change my answer" (which I did), but anyway, bottom line I had already tipped the cig girl a $5. chip and had to wait nearly ten minutes before I got the cigar.

I could half understand the $50. cigar, but the pack of Marlboros for the other player? Same rigamarole.

Later the dealer told me "not to take it personally" that it was like that all over the Strip now - that the pit bosses could no longer comp any food, and even for little things like this had to get computer approval against my account. I half expected to see a bill for the cigar at checkout (but luckily, no).



The most disgusting thing is they felt the comped cigar had to be personally smoked by you

I.e. you earned a cigar but they feel they are somehow being cheated if the thing you earned is given away to someone else.

Usually only spiteful significant others cry when their partner gives away a present
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
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March 28th, 2019 at 10:20:37 PM permalink
Yes, and after the cig girl gave it to me, she asked if I wanted her to cut it.

At that point I wasn't sure if she had heard all of the discussion, because if she had, then her request would have been just more of the same "you better be smoking it yourself," but later I thought, well maybe she just said that out of habit, maybe she didn't mean anything one way or another.

I left the cigar in its tube on the table for a while by my chips, then after about ten minutes in a "what the hell, why do I have to play games" move just put it in my coat pocket.
MDawg
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September 9th, 2019 at 10:45:34 AM permalink
When I started playing again in 2018, after a decade or so hiatus, it was just for the purpose of having fun and comps. I used to play much much harder, and did usually win (over all way ahead), and since returning I actually haven't had a losing trip yet (better knock on something...I am prepared to lose but haven't yet) and get comp'ed a fair amount.

I recall reading something by someone here to the effect of that they will not comp you if you do not lose. Nonsense. My comps are based solely on the theoretical loss since I have not lost only won. We just spent a week at a different resort here and everything was comp'ed. We left that resort to go to the current one where the suite is again all paid for up front, for a full week, most if not all of the food and beverage will be covered, and even though I am not a madman player any longer (my usual average I think is around $300. per hand although they have me down for $800. on this current trip, so maybe I am wrong about my average and it is higher than I think, it is the occasional high bets to couple thousand etc. that bring it up without your realizing it), perks we recently got include free tickets to Bill Burr and Duran Duran, with the DD tickets being front row center. I actually was surprised we got front row center, my play is good but then again maybe it's also to do with that I sent my host three very expensive Italian designer ties after the last trip. That last trip he comp'ed us two full weeks in a suite and I won a fair amount of money too.
Last edited by: MDawg on Sep 9, 2019

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