Will Trump Be Impeached ?

Quote: ontariodealer

I just took this huge shit.....it barely made it down the bowl.....it clung to the sides like a dog in a bath tub.

This is a ridiculously nasty derail. 3 days for extreme hijack and profanity.

Quote: Romes

People are lazy moronic idiots who don't want to do a lick of research to find out the truth. They just take the first bits of idiocy thrown at them or by whomever is shouting the loudest instead of who's more accurate. Same idiots don't vaccinate their children. Same idiots think climate change isn't real. Our world is legitimately heading towards the movie/documentary Idiocracy. Idiots are out-breeding intelligent people.

That's always going to be true. There's no intelligence barrier to having children, but there's an increasing intelligence barrier to being financially successful in the modern economy. Intelligence and net worth are positively correlated. But no matter how smart you are, you only have a limited amount of time. You can choose to spend that time on raising children or on getting rich -- but if you're incapable of getting rich, you've got more time to raise kids. The birth rate for U.S. families with incomes under $10k/year is 50% higher than the birth rate for families with incomes over 200k/year, 6.7% to 4.3%:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/
And since wealth is also correlated with the value a family places on education, you end up with a glut of both poorer and poorly-educated young Americans. When they grow up, those kids become poorly-educated voters. And then they vote for demagogues like Trump ("I love the poorly educated") who push policy to further increase income inequality, making himself rich at the expense of the very voters who put him in power. And then the cycle starts anew.

If you know how to break that cycle, I'm all ears. One possibility is to go it alone. Here's a op-ed columnist who thinks the blue states should take Trump's tax-cut money and deploy it more efficiently than the federal government can:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/02/opinions/blue-states-take-trump-tax-cut-money-and-run-harrop/index.html
Fundamentally I agree with her. It's true that progressive state voters get a negative ROI on their federal tax dollars and conservative states are where my tax dollars are going (I live in a blue state). So if everyone in the red states wants to stop taking my money, great. Maybe what we need is a new state-based politics where, federally, we elect the most ardent small-government fiscal libertarians we can find, and just accomplish everything on an intra-state compact basis outside the scope of federal government. It'd be the same financial effect of the Cascadia or Greater California secession everyone was talking about, just without the nasty civil-war side effects. That way we don't need to keep arguing about which financial policy is right. We can run both at the same time (fiscal conservatism at the Federal level and in states like Alabama and Texas, fiscal progressivism in states like California and Connecticut) and see who's more successful.

Quote: MathExtremist

That's always going to be true. There's no intelligence barrier to having children, but there's an increasing intelligence barrier to being financially successful in the modern economy. Intelligence and net worth are positively correlated. But no matter how smart you are, you only have a limited amount of time.

Very true. However, I could give you a great number of 'trust fund' friends who havent got a clue about life but have a strong net worth. But those who make it on their own, I have great respect for... and indeed, it takes great intelligence and ambition in todays economy.

Quote: Romes

They're people when they're a clump of cells? Well shit, you murder every single day when you step on a bug, etc. Where is your war cry for the things you murder? Do you eat meat? You are a murderer of animals. Where's the line? Just humans? What qualifies as a human, a clump of cells? After that... where do you get the right to tell others what to do with their body? Why do you hold this belief? Is it your RELIGION and your belief that your invisible friend in the sky couldn't care less about starving children in the world, or the diseases spreading all over, but my oh my he SURELY cares what a woman does with her body that should be between her and her primary care physician??? Grow up and be a logical adult instead of a child believing in santa clause (or whatever name you want to call him/it/her/etc).

*Disclaimers: I'm an independent. No I'm not an atheist. No I'm not any kind of vegetarian. Yes I think everyone is entitled to their own wrong beliefs. No I don't think you should be able to impose/enforce YOUR beliefs on others.

Religion is like a penis. It's fine to have one. Most who have one are very proud of it... and no it's not okay to try to force yours on me.

Yes - I'm pro-abortion... I'm also pro-adoption, pro-birth control, pro-abstinence, pro-reality, and pro-RIGHTS for people to make their own damn decisions that don't affect me.

Trump LIED during the debates claiming they were "ripping" arms and legs out of women to use simple psychological fear on simple minded people to make them think this was really a thing... when it is NOT. People hear "ripping arms and legs" and suddenly it's "oh my lord we must do something about this!" rather than "hmmm, I wonder if the crap he's spewing out is legit/factual/relevant" and that's the problem with society and why fake news is spreading like it is. People are lazy moronic idiots who don't want to do a lick of research to find out the truth. They just take the first bits of idiocy thrown at them or by whomever is shouting the loudest instead of who's more accurate. Same idiots don't vaccinate their children. Same idiots think climate change isn't real. Our world is legitimately heading towards the movie/documentary Idiocracy. Idiots are out-breeding intelligent people.

There's really no national debate on abortion. Either you feel in your heart that it is wrong, or you don't have a heart.

As to ripping arms and legs, you don't know what you're talking about. That's exactly how it's done. Burn a living and innocent little baby, one that tries to fight back, with saline solution, rip it apart with forceps and toss it in the sink.

Quote: bobbartop

There's really no national debate on abortion. Either you feel in your heart that it is wrong, or you don't have a heart.

As to ripping arms and legs, you don't know wtf you're talking about. That's exactly how it's done. Burn a living and innocent little baby, one that tries to fight back, with saline solution, rip it apart with forceps and toss it in the sink.

Zieg heil.

Am I being trolled? Is this serious? You should REALLY try doing some research on the medical procedure that is VERY WELL documented. The irony is in the "you don't know wtf you're talking about" statement, when in fact it's obvious to everyone you've never done a lick of research in to the actual procedure or statistics on who does it, when they do it, etc... The most information you've gotten is clearly from your lying one sided biased facebook group / website that agrees with what you want it to be and not what it actually is.

Have you ever killed an ant? What if someone, with 100% seriousness, told you that you were a heartless murdering monster for crushing every limb on it while its guts spewed out in front of you and all your heartless murdering wrong sided mind did was wipe it off your shoe? Would you think that person crazy? That's how anyone of intelligence sees you due to your lack of understanding and refusal to be educated on the topic. Shout and scream all you want, but you can't change facts.

Do you have a daughter, niece, female cousin, or hell how about female friends? What if one of them was raped and got pregnant as a result of it? What if I told you someone with a mental illness such as their father, brother, uncle, etc raped them? does that change anything? You'd like them to carry the daily reminder of that horrible crime against them? You'd want them to carry around what they consider a VIRUS that was wrongfully entered in to their body? You'd want them to birth and raise their attackers seed all in the name of life, even if it drove them mad and to killing themselves because every time they thought of that baby they relived the horrific attack against them? You'd be okay with that? You'd be okay with your family and friends killing themselves as a result of an attack against them that they had nothing to do with nor couldn't stop?

Next, let's move on to the health of the woman and how there are PLENTY of cases where the mother would in fact be injured or KILLED if they continue on with a pregnancy. What a wonderful life that child would have growing up without a mom. What a waste of a life the mother would have dying and leaving her baby behind in the world when if she wanted a child, it's really not that hard to have another one.

Now let's talk about terrorists. Do you support the war against them? Do you support killing terrorists and other bad people? Why is that MURDER okay to you yet a medical procedure to save lives and prevent unplanned children (rape) not okay? How is this even a discussion at this point? You support murder 10 ways from Tuesday, you just don't support other women making decisions with their own bodies?

On that note, what would you do if someone broke in to your home and was threatening to kill your family? Do you own a gun? Would you kill them to save/protect your family? HOW does that not make you a MURDERER??? Life is precious in all forms, right? So you'd MURDER someone to protect your family, but a mother having an abortion where the baby would kill her, so she can be alive for her FAMILY (husband and other kids) is NOT okay? Do you see how it's one in the same to do what's necessary to protect your family??? Probably not.

There are many, many cases where it's medically necessary to have an abortion, let alone the underlying truth of who the hell are you to tell someone else what to do with their body and their life? What high pedestal did you get put on, and by whom, to enable you to sit back and judge those "beneath" you for the decisions you don't have to live through and could never comprehend nor understand because of your lack of education and inexperience in their situations? IGNORANCE and IDIOCY is your pedestal, and that's rather easy to see.

You're right, there is no debate... Roe v Wade took care of that. A woman has the right to choose what she does with her own body. Thanks for reminding us all it's not a debate and you can stop ever thinking about it again now.

Quote: Romes

You should REALLY try doing some research on the medical procedure that is VERY WELL documented.

So should you.

And your post is frightening, on so many levels.

I'm not going to post some real photos of abortions done at several periods of development, it might get me booted from here.

You have ice water in your veins.

Quote: Romes

Am I being trolled? Is this serious?

No, you're not being trolled. He actually does seem to believe in all the nonsense he spews.

Quote: bobbartop

So should you.

And your post is frightening, on so many levels.

I'm not going to post some real photos of abortions done at several periods of development, it might get me booted from here.

You have ice water in your veins.

And let me guess... You get your pictures from some ww.republicansagainstabortion . org . bullshit website, right? Where they take the most extreme cases that threaten the lives of the mother and the <1% of the time procedures necessary to protect the mother and PLASTER that on the front of the site and say FALSE things such as "THIS IS WHAT EVERY ABORTION LOOKS LIKE" where then the morons that read the site don't do research and just blindly believe the false news/information and go on spamming the incorrect information like lemmings to the rest of the population only to repeat the cycle??? Sound about right?

Quote: ams288

No, you're not being trolled. He actually does seem to believe in all the nonsense he spews.

Yes, I'm a real nut. I think it's wrong to kill innocent babies. Hand me my tinfoil. Gosh, some of you people are really awful.

Quote: bobbartop

Yes, I'm a real nut. I think it's wrong to kill innocent babies. Hand me my tinfoil. Gosh, some of you people are really awful.

Believing in a woman's right to make her own decisions does not make us "awful."

No one is killing innocent babies. That's just more nonsense.

Quote: Romes

And let me guess... You get your pictures from some ww.republicansagainstabortion . org . bullshit website, right? Where they take the most extreme cases that threaten the lives of the mother and the <1% of the time procedures necessary to protect the mother and PLASTER that on the front of the site and say FALSE things such as "THIS IS WHAT EVERY ABORTION LOOKS LIKE" where then the morons that read the site don't do research and just blindly believe the false news/information and go on spamming the incorrect information like lemmings to the rest of the population only to repeat the cycle??? Sound about right?

You know squat.

ice, water, in, your, veins

Quote: ams288

Believing in a woman's right to make her own decisions does not make us "awful."

No one is killing innocent babies. That's just more nonsense.

I already said there is no debating it. You either have a heart, or you don't. What happened to yours? What have they done to you people?

Quote: bobbartop

Yes, I'm a real nut. I think it's wrong to kill innocent babies. Hand me my tinfoil. Gosh, some of you people are really awful.

What about innocent toddlers or innocent teenagers or innocent adults? If you believe society has a moral imperative to support human life during gestation, don't you also believe society has a moral imperative to support human life during the rest of its lifetime? Why do you believe that a human becomes less worthy after it passes through a vagina or cesarian incision?

And if you don't, why are you so opposed to free government healthcare and welfare for the poor?

How do you justify requiring a destitute pregnant woman to carry her unborn child to term, yet force them to live in poverty afterwards?

Quote: bobbartop

I already said there is no debating it. You either have a heart, or you don't. What happened to yours? What have they done to you people?

You're a man, I presume? Do you have any daughters?

Quote: bobbartop

I already said there is no debating it. You either have a heart, or you don't. What happened to yours? What have they done to you people?

It's called me me me, I want what I want
no matter who it hurts, even innocent
unborn babies. We can't see them so they
aren't real humans, rip them out if you like.

Quote: EvenBob

It's called me me me, I want what I want
no matter who it hurts, even innocent
unborn babies. We can't see them so they
aren't real humans, rip them out if you like.

That's also the GOP platform on poverty.

Quote: bobbartop

You know squat.

ice, water, in, your, veins

This is what ever single religious/republican does, right here... IGNORE the 100 questions I asked you, stick your fingers in your ears going "na na na na na YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT YOU'RE A KILLER!" instead of engaging in conversation and discussing the facts logically. THAT, is what makes you a nut (and ignorant).

Quote: MathExtremist

What about innocent toddlers or innocent teenagers or innocent adults? If you believe society has a moral imperative to support human life during gestation, don't you also believe society has a moral imperative to support human life during the rest of its lifetime? Why do you believe that a human becomes less worthy after it passes through a vagina or cesarian incision?

And if you don't, why are you so opposed to free government healthcare and welfare for the poor?

How do you justify requiring a destitute pregnant woman to carry her unborn child to term, yet force them to live in poverty afterwards?

Seriously I can't believe this nonsense. Oh wait yes I can it's coming from you.

So what he is talking about is the "killing" of unborn babies. If a teen or adult or anyone was killed after they were born the person who did it would be facing criminal charges from manslaughter or higher.

As far as your claim of supporting people after they are born it happens all the time. What do you call welfare and other programs of the sort?

Poverty is a life style and a choice. No one is born with a genetic preposition that forces them to be poor.

Please get a better grip on how the world works

When we start talking about abortion, we enter the danger zone... very touchy subject. I was born and raised Catholic and it was a great foundation, however, as I experienced and learned more about life, I have formed many new beliefs and opinions.

If the heart of a fetus does not start beating until the 5th week, then presumably the soul has not yet been established with this new born so an abortion prior to the 5th week would seem ok. After the 5th week, and if you believe in souls, if a mother did not want a child to be born, and presumably would create a very uncomfortable life circumstance for that child, wouldn't it be better to have that soul passed on to another life possibility in a loving and caring environment within our human samsara?

Quote: MathExtremist

What about innocent toddlers or innocent teenagers or innocent adults? If you believe society has a moral imperative to support human life during gestation, don't you also believe society has a moral imperative to support human life during the rest of its lifetime? Why do you believe that a human becomes less worthy after it passes through a vagina or cesarian incision?

And if you don't, why are you so opposed to free government healthcare and welfare for the poor?

How do you justify requiring a destitute pregnant woman to carry her unborn child to term, yet force them to live in poverty afterwards?

Math Extremist, I'm getting pretty sick of you putting words in my mouth and making up positions for me. You have done so since I first posted here and made my first post in an off-topic political thread. I don't think I treat you the same way. So knock it off.

Reading the posts from you, Romes, and AMS288 this morning make me feel like I just read a book about Joseph Menegle. I'm going to take a shower, scrub twice as hard as usual, and go to the casino.

Quote: bobbartop

Math Extremist, I'm getting pretty sick of you putting words in my mouth and making up positions for me. You have done so since I first posted here and made my first post in an off-topic political thread. I don't think I treat you the same way. So knock it off.

Reading the posts from you, Romes, and AMS288 this morning make me feel like I just read a book about Joseph Menegle. I'm going to take a shower, scrub twice as hard as usual, and go to the casino.

I didn't put any words in your mouth. You expressed the opinion that abortion was the killing of innocent babies, and I paraphrased that as "society has a moral imperative to support human life during gestation." Do you disagree with that equivalence? If not, then the rest of my question was just a follow-on. You don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but I won't apologize for trying to make you consider the ramifications of your fervently-held but poorly-considered beliefs.

And by no means should you consider how your position would change in the event your daughter was raped by a man with Zika virus and later learned her pregnancy was afflicted by severe microcephaly. Even if you had strangled the man with your bare hands, I hardly think you'd be looking forward to being a grandfather.

Justice is not black-and-white, and neither is abortion policy.

Quote: Romes

This is what ever single religious/republican does, right here... IGNORE the 100 questions I asked you, stick your fingers in your ears going "na na na na na YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT YOU'RE A KILLER!" instead of engaging in conversation and discussing the facts logically. THAT, is what makes you a nut (and ignorant).

After your suspension please return. I like your posts a lot.

Quote: WatchMeWin

When we start talking about abortion, we enter the danger zone... very touchy subject. I was born and raised Catholic and it was a great foundation, however, as I experienced and learned more about life, I have formed many new beliefs and opinions.

If the heart of a fetus does not start beating until the 5th week, then presumably the soul has not yet been established with this new born child,

Where'd you get that lovely piece of fake news? Are you speaking for God today? Logically, if there is such a thing as a soul, (which I do believe by faith), then it exists at conception. Take a look at a picture of a 5-week old "fetus", and tell me that ain't a well-developed little tiny human being. Don't forget, some of these pro-murder whackos want abortion up to the last day third trimester. Is that not what Hillary wanted? I may be wrong about Hillary, but I thought she said that. If not, I'll tweet her an apology.

But I'm not here today to discuss religious theory. I cannot prove there is such thing as a soul, although I am firmly convinced there is. But I can prove that they rip these little babies apart piece by piece and throw them in a sink, and that Romes don't know diddly.

Quote: Homelessnyc

Poverty is a life style and a choice. No one is born with a genetic preposition that forces them to be poor.

Are you rich? If not, why didn't you select that life style and choice?

Quote: MathExtremist

Are you rich? If not, why didn't you select that life style and choice?

So instead of fighting my point which is right because you are handling it by answering a question with a question.... typical.

The question shouldn't be whether I'm rich but am I poor living in poverty? No I am not. I would consider myself a typical mid to upper mid class. I went to school got a useful degree and now work hard to earn, save and invest.

However why don't you answer my questions and address my points? That would be a great way to have a productive conversation but it seems you don't want that. You just want to push your nonsense around

Quote: Romes

This is what ever single religious/republican does, right here... IGNORE the 100 questions I asked you, stick your fingers in your ears going "na na na na na YOU DON'T KNOW SQUAT YOU'RE A KILLER!" instead of engaging in conversation and discussing the facts logically. THAT, is what makes you a nut (and ignorant).

Funny, you apparently think there are no democrats that don't believe in abortion.

You're "100" questions do not justify murder, murder of the most innocent of life. Not one of them does. There is only one explanation here, you are cold-blooded. You scare me, and I know there are a lot of people like you. So militant about retaining their right to murder babies. Send chills. I am scared to death of people like you. I fear the whole country being like this some day, where life will not mean anything.

I think you meant to say genetic predisposition... and by the same lack of knowledge you use in your choice of words, your opinion on poverty is equally flawed. Tell the individual who was born into poverty with no parents, no government support, no education, no hope to better his'her life (and there are people in third world countries in this situation).... tell them that poverty was their choice.

Quote: MathExtremist

And by no means should you consider how your position would change in the event your daughter was raped by a man with Zika virus and later learned her pregnancy was afflicted by severe microcephaly. Even if you had strangled the man with your bare hands, I hardly think you'd be looking forward to being a grandfather.

Are you aware that Hitler started off with mentally disabled people? Well? Are you?

Quote: WatchMeWin

I think you meant to say genetic predisposition... and by the same lack of knowledge you use in your choice of words, your opinion on poverty is equally flawed. Tell the individual who was born into poverty with no parents, no government support, no education, no hope to better his'her life (and there are people in third world countries in this situation).... tell them that poverty was their choice.

So you want to judge me based on typo from using a mobile phone to post. It isn't like my point isn't clear due to the typo now is it?

However, you focus on the nonsense and not the point being made which is a typical tactic used when people know they are wrong and can't fight against it.

Do you understand what poverty is because from you post you have no clue. How can you even start to compare poverty in a 3rd world country to that of the US? You don't so your who post is flawed but nice try.

From some of your past post I respected your opinions but now I have no respect for you

Quote: bobbartop

Logically, if there is such a thing as a soul,

Stop right there and re-read what you just wrote. You're applying your logic to something that is beyond the scope of reason. Does a fetus with holo anencephaly (literally, no brain) have a soul? It will never develop self-awareness and, even if it makes it to birth, will likely live less than 48 hours. Are you opposed to abortion for fetuses with holo anencephaly?

Warning, this link may be disturbing to some viewers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anencephaly

Quote:

if there is such a thing as a soul, (which I do believe by faith), then it exists at conception.

Why not earlier? The Catholic Catechism 366 says that the soul is "created immediately by God" and not produced by the parents. But it doesn't say when. If God creates souls at the moment a sperm penetrates the outer shell of an egg in a woman's Fallopian tube, doesn't that logically mean that biologists who practice in-vitro fertilization can force God to create souls whenever they want?
The idea of God being forced to do anything on our schedule seems backwards. On the other hand, if God creates (and/or has created) souls in a manner that doesn't naturally fit with our conception of linear time (e.g., at the moment of all creation), then it wouldn't be accurate to say that the soul is created at the point of conception.

I'm not sure which may be correct, but I'm also not sure that the Christian concept of "an immortal soul" is an accurate reflection of reality anyway. However, what I *am* sure about is that government policy should not be dictated by that concept. If your objection to abortion is a religious one, it is unconstitutional to impose that religious objection on me by way of government policy.

So I do have to say that we have gone very off topic.

In an attempt to try to bring the conversation off this current track.

Trump is responsible for Ford not building a 1.6 billion plant in Mexico. The company will now spent 700 million on their Michigan plant.

I have great faith that he will continue to keep and bring back jobs to the US.

He will probably be one of the greatest presidents since Regan and not come close to being impeached

Im curious ... why did you choose Homelessnyc as your username?

Was it given to you or did you choose poverty?

Quote: MathExtremist

Stop right there and re-read what you just wrote. You're applying your logic to something that is beyond the scope of reason.

I CLEARLY stated in this thread that I cannot prove there is a soul. I said I believe there is, but I cannot prove it. So it's not part of this discussion, from my point anyway, and there you go making up positions for me again. The only thing I am adamant about, is that you pro-abortion people break my heart and tend to make me lose my faith in my fellow man. I feel the coldness around me.

Quote: Homelessnyc

Seriously I can't believe this nonsense. Oh wait yes I can it's coming from you.

So what he is talking about is the "killing" of unborn babies. If a teen or adult or anyone was killed after they were born the person who did it would be facing criminal charges from manslaughter or higher.

As far as your claim of supporting people after they are born it happens all the time. What do you call welfare and other programs of the sort?

Poverty is a life style and a choice. No one is born with a genetic preposition that forces them to be poor.

Please get a better grip on how the world works

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) ME was attempting to point out the most clear and obvious lack of care for kids once they ARE born. The religious right fights for every single kid to be born, regardless of rape/incest or even harm to the mother... but let's pretend they got their way and that happened... Then what? The child is born in to a family where it's not wanted, given up for adoption, etc, etc. Who pays for all of that? Who pays for the orphanage? These kids will grow up feeling unwanted and loved and where is your religious right now? Why don't the people who want to force babies be born also be FORCED to adopt ALL OF THEM??? They want to tell others what to do with their bodies, but then turn a blind eye to the aftermath.

Quote: WatchMeWin

When we start talking about abortion, we enter the danger zone... very touchy subject. I was born and raised Catholic and it was a great foundation, however, as I experienced and learned more about life, I have formed many new beliefs and opinions...

This is literally my upbringing as well. Born and raised catholic with Sunday school every week... However whenever I asked the tough questions like "why doesn't god end world hunger or create world peace?" and others of the sort I just got the bullsh*t "god has a plan" answer. Then I read... I read the bible and learned how the devil (bad guy) kills like 10 people where as god (the good guy) kills over 33 million. If that's "god's plan" then he's the damn devil. No one had answer to my evolving questions over and over so I sought the answers to my questions outside the church where I found science. Where things are explained with facts and logic.... Where I would find I felt I belonged. Again, I'm not an athiest, but I am agnostic. I won't tell you god doesn't exist, but I don't believe in one.

Quote: bobbartop

...Reading the posts from you, Romes, and AMS288 this morning make me feel like I just read a book about Joseph Menegle. I'm going to take a shower, scrub twice as hard as usual, and go to the casino.

Yeah my RELIGION tells me all I need to know! Now hold my beer (sin) while I get ready to go gamble (sin).

The most ironic thing about all of this... Religious people are quite often republicans who scream "freedom!" and "make america great again by bringing back christ to christmas!" and crap of that nature... But they never stop to ask: What made America great to begin with? Why did we become a country? Oh, that's right... lol... to escape religious persecution. The belief that all men were created equal and the idea that just because I don't believe what you believe doesn't inherently make either one of us better off or higher up than any other... yet again the irony of it all is that's exactly where the religious/republicans are and what they're pushing for now days.

Quote: WatchMeWin

Was it given to you or did you choose poverty?

We are all a product of our environment... from emotions and morals to our financial selves as well. A child born in to poverty whom has to get a full time job at 16 to make sure his family can EAT does not have the time nor resources a born rich kid does (who doesn't have to work, or works 5 hours per week so they know what "working" is like). Rich parents can give advantages to their kids that poor parents can not, such as better schools for example. If you don't believe this then you are lost.

Being born in to poverty is NOT a choice. I'm not saying everyone can't do something about it later on in life, but not everyone gets that full developmental cycle to think about how to break the cycle and end the poverty. Sometimes they must grow up too fast and get locked in to dead end jobs just to make the ends meet... and you want to blame them for feeling slighted, which at least a little bit, they are. Of course it also comes down to the parents and choosing to bring a baby in to the world when they can't support them... and then they do the actual logical/responsible thing (say the condom broke or the birth control failed) and they try to have an abortion as to NOT continue the cycle and bring a baby in to a world they can't support... Then they have someone high on their pedestal like bobbartop who judges them and attempts to make their medical and LIFE decisions FOR THEM whilst never having walked a mile in their shoes to even understand the decision that's being made. It's sickening to see people attempt to do that.... That's who has ICE in their veins.

Wow, all of this 'deep' talk is bringing me back to my detention days at my catholic grade school. I need to go make some money now on the craps tables. I know one thing for certain... I will attempt to win for the 15th day in a row and I feel very confident in doing so.

Quote: bobbartop

I already said there is no debating it. You either have a heart, or you don't. What happened to yours? What have they done to you people?

If the pro-life people really cared about the living the annual adoption rates in the US would be close to 100%. They would forgo natural childbirth until this happened.

Of course not every kid is a cute baby. Some are older, some are emotionally troubled, and some have disabilities, some expensive to maintain.

But that's just an excuse for the heartless.

Quote: Romes

Yeah my RELIGION tells me all I need to know! Now hold my beer (sin) while I get ready to go gamble(sin).

You don't know nothing about me. Like Math Extremist, you are arrogant enough to think you can put words in my mouth and thoughts in my mind. Do you even know who Joseph Mengele was? I see a lot of you young know-it-alls who are kinda light on history, so I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't know who he was.

Quote: rxwine

If the pro-life people really cared about the living the annual adoption rates in the US would be close to 100%. They would forgo natural childbirth until this happened.

Of course not every kid is a cute baby. Some are older, some are emotionally troubled, and some have disabilities, some expensive to maintain.

But that's just an excuse for the heartless.

If that helps you sleep at night.

Quote: bobbartop

You don't know nothing about me. Like Math Extremist, you are arrogant enough to think you can put words in my mouth and thoughts in my mind.

Yeah! Who does he think he is, The National Enquirer?!

Quote: bobbartop

...You don't know nothing about me..

THE IRONY... Yet you want to judge and dictate the lives of others around you, without knowing even so much as their names... all based on some beliefs, while our country was founded on NOT having to have the same beliefs.

Quote: bobbartop

If that helps you sleep at night.

Good thing you said you won't click on my links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJq4re2d-0

Quote: bobbartop

You don't know nothing about me. Like Math Extremist, you are arrogant enough to think you can put words in my mouth and thoughts in my mind.

And you're arrogant enough to think that you can put your religious dogma in my statutes, despite that act being constitutionally proscribed.

Quote: Romes

THE IRONY... Yet you want to judge and dictate the lives of others around you, without knowing even so much as their names... all based on some beliefs, while our country was founded on NOT having to have the same beliefs.

Do you have any idea what the abortion law was like when our nation was founded? Do you want to continue telling ME what our country was founded on? You're boring me, Romes.

Quote: MathExtremist

And you're arrogant enough to think that you can put your religious dogma in my statutes, despite that act being constitutionally proscribed.

Now you know my religious dogma? Is it anything like your baby-killing dogma?

Quote: rxwine

Good thing you said you won't click on my links.

Not if you're going to post another video of a dog getting stabbed in the neck.

I'm not clicking it. I don't trust you.

Quote: Romes

I'm not a troll. I take my roll on this forum quite seriously.

Quote: bobbartop

I CLEARLY stated in this thread that I cannot prove there is a soul. I said I believe there is, but I cannot prove it. So it's not part of this discussion, from my point anyway, and there you go making up positions for me again. The only thing I am adamant about, is that you pro-abortion people break my heart and tend to make me lose my faith in my fellow man. I feel the coldness around me.

I'm not pro-abortion. I think abortion is a tragedy, but I think the alternative is often a bigger tragedy so I'm not willing to adopt any black-and-white policy that outlaws it. I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro-boundaries and anti-government-oppression. The government has no business inserting itself in the conversation between your daughter and her doctor.

Because if government of the people, for the people, and by the people means anything at all, then religious laws written centuries ago by men who were never Americans can have nothing to do with it.

As far as losing faith in one's fellow man, I think it's a cruel and unusual punishment to force a rape victim to carry her attacker's seed to full term. If you can't agree with that sentiment, we're at a fundamental impasse.

Neither drinking nor gambling is a sin. The love of either, is. (Same thing with having money.)


ME, are you really saying it is unconstitutional for me to vote the way I want based on my religion? I can vote for something however the hell I want. If I want to vote on something based on my religious beliefs, I can. The "religious freedom" thing is to make sure the government doesn't force (or deny) a religion on the people.....it's not the other way around. A student in a public school can pray if he wishes to. But the school can't force or deny students to pray.


Romes, you are an atheist, not agnostic. Atheism is believing there is no God, whereas agnosticism is unsure if one exists (ie: neutral, you believe God may or may not exist).


Regarding abortion, I don't think it's completely black & white either. I think abortion should only exist in the more extreme cases (mother will likely die, baby is all jacked up without a brain, due to rape, some wonky diseases, etc.).