Will Trump Be Impeached ?

Quote: RonC

No impact on your life? 30,000,000 illegal immigrants and more coming each month have no positive or negative influence on anything in you life?

Interesting. Good or bad, I am willing to bet that they do even if you don't see it.

If there were any impact, it’d most likely be a positive one as we all know they are willing to take the low paying crappy jobs that most Americans won’t.

Quote: RonC

No impact on your life? 30,000,000 illegal immigrants and more coming each month have no positive or negative influence on anything in you life?

Interesting. Good or bad, I am willing to bet that they do even if you don't see it.

Good or bad? What if it's 51% good and 49% bad?

When it comes to Trump it's about overlooking nearly everything wrong. When it comes to illegals, it's strict adherence to legality for much of the rightwing.

Quote: ams288

If there were any impact, it’d most likely be a positive one as we all know they are willing to take the low paying crappy jobs that most Americans won’t.

I guess they will become even more valuable should the pay for "people that don't want to work" part of the Socialist platform come to fruition. We will up the number of freeloaders but they will vote "D"!!

(I do know that will not happen...I think...so this post is mostly a joke...)

Quote: rxwine

Good or bad? What if it's 51% good and 49% bad?

When it comes to Trump it's about overlooking nearly everything wrong. When it comes to illegals, it's strict adherence to legality for much of the rightwing.

I guess my main thing would be that we should let the people who have made legitimate requests to legally immigrate come here instead of letting ones who decided to go around the system and break in.

We did amnesty and we screwed up because there were no teeth to stop the flow. I could be "for" amnesty with 100% rejection of anyone who comes in illegally after it was granted if the costs and benefits made sense. I just think immigration without vetting and limitations is not a good idea; that is something that is the case in most other countries.

I know that is not "right" enough for some nor "left" enough for others.

The problem with the "strict adherence" deal is that the Democrats have swung the other way...they don't seem to want ANY adherence to our immigration laws.

So we're screwed...

Quote: SOOPOO

The quite pathetic attempt at an answer for someone who has no real answer.

76,000 in a month! Around 2,500 ILLEGAL crossings EVERY day! No comment, ams? Steverinos? Terapined?
Oh yeah, Trump lied about a meeting he had in 2015. Oh yeah, Trump made fun of a disabled reporter. Oh yeah, Trump used the term "pussy grab".

The wall is not the answer
A properly funded border patrol is the answer
I'm a fiscal conservative, I don't believe in wasting money on a dumb wall
Properly fund the border patrol and let them independently determine the best use of money to secure the border
Trump does lie a lot
AOC may say some dumb things, but she is nowhere as dumb as that orange moron we have for a President
Trump is incredibly dumb and he has power, that is a dangerous combination

Quote: terapined

The wall is not the answer

It is PART of a comprehensive plan, though. The Democrats are refusing to give anything when they wanted 700-1000 miles in years past. They are denying funding, and helping more illegals get in, because "Trump".

I'm okay with asking the border patrol or other people who actually work on the border how much enhanced fencing is needed and what other funding they need and then providing funding at a reasonable level.

They could simply say, when campaigning, that they had a "better" idea than the President's big, shiny wall paid for by Mexico.

Quote: terapined

A properly funded border patrol is the answer

We don't surround protected areas with just a patrol; it is supplemented with some other types of perimeter security. Imagine how many people it would take to secure the whole border...that is why other things are needed. Drones may help, but they aren't the total answer.

Quote: SOOPOO

Oh yeah, Trump used the term "pussy grab".

Don't forget that he moves on married women "like bitches".

Keep it classy Donny. Our kids are watching.

Quote: RonC

We don't surround protected areas with just a patrol; it is supplemented with some other types of perimeter security.

The Vatican is surrounded by a wall for
perimeter security. Inside the wall are
armed police to enforce the law. Our
border should be no different.

Saw a video from a San Diego TV
station on how the new 30' barrier
is replacing the old one, and how
thankful they are for it. San Diego
would be unlivable if not for the
wall.

Most people never heard of the
Immigration Act of 1924. It halted
all immigration from Asia, and
severely limited it for Italians, Jews,
Greeks, Poles, and Slavs. This was
in place for 40 years.

The reason? To let the huge migration
from 1880-1920 settle into the country,
to allow them to learn English and
to become part of society. To not
let US become overrun with immigrants
who would destroy the integrity of the
US.

We need this again.

Quote: RonC

We don't surround protected areas with just a patrol; it is supplemented with some other types of perimeter security. Imagine how many people it would take to secure the whole border...that is why other things are needed. Drones may help, but they aren't the total answer.

Let the people that actually patrol the border decide the best way to spend their budget to protect the border.
That's just common sense.
Its the best way to insure that money is not wasted.
Its absurd to have clowns in DC decide exactly how the money is spent
Give the border patrol the money and independence to secure the border as they see fit without political influence.

Quote: RonC

No impact on your life? 30,000,000 illegal immigrants and more coming each month have no positive or negative influence on anything in you life?

Interesting. Good or bad, I am willing to bet that they do even if you don't see it.

So how does 76000 illegal immigrants per month (for February, a healthy spike but not a trend), or 2200 per day, both figures from the article, translate into 30,000,000 illegal immigrants per month? Hyperbole much? Lol...

The Trump administration has, by testimony from K. Nielsen and others, said that they have slowed migrant processing and asylum acceptance a lot from previous administrations. Is it that surprising there would be an uptick in those out of time and money who try to cross?

The graphs accompanying the statistics in the article go back decades, and show apprehensions and other migrant movement to be well below historic levels, despite this increase. I think it's far from time to panic.

Quote: beachbumbabs

So how does 76000 illegal immigrants per month (for February, a healthy spike but not a trend), or 2200 per day, both figures from the article, translate into 30,000,000 illegal immigrants per month? Hyperbole much? Lol...

He didn't say "30,000,000 coming per month." He said, "30,000,000 immigrants here, and more coming each month."

Two different things.

Quote: beachbumbabs

So how does 76000 illegal immigrants per month (for February, a healthy spike but not a trend), or 2200 per day, both figures from the article, translate into 30,000,000 illegal immigrants per month? Hyperbole much? Lol...

The Trump administration has, by testimony from K. Nielsen and others, said that they have slowed migrant processing and asylum acceptance a lot from previous administrations. Is it that surprising there would be an uptick in those out of time and money who try to cross?

The graphs accompanying the statistics in the article go back decades, and show apprehensions and other migrant movement to be well below historic levels, despite this increase. I think it's far from time to panic.

Forget how it was written (I added commas to make it more clear to everyone)--there are millions of illegals here and thousands coming in each month.

What would you propose doing about it?

Should unlimited amounts of illegal immigrants be allowed in?

If you supported fencing under President Obama or before, What changed your mind from wanting more fencing to not wanting any more replaced/added?

Is there a "breaking point" number of illegal immigrants that we can support as a nation?

Quote: RonC

If you supported fencing under President Obama or before, What changed your mind from wanting more fencing to not wanting any more replaced/added?

Is there a "breaking point" number of illegal immigrants that we can support as a nation?

What changed our mind? Who says we did?

It's true that democrats supported the Gang of Eight bi-partisan immigration reform bill of 2013 that included additional fencing and numerous reforms; a bi-partisan bill in an era of hyper-partisanship. That shouldn't go unnoticed and should not be forgotten but it apparently has been. I think that's a fair starting point for negotiations. But it sounds like a path to citizenship is a non-starter for conservatives today. So here we are. I bet that if you put that exact bill on the floor today it would get democratic support. Who says we changed our mind?

I believe that the spread of misinformation is the root cause of our political divide. This immigration/wall debate is just the latest and greatest example of that. For example, I have YET to see a conservative concede that the majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry. Seriously. I watch cable news with pundits from both sides. I read the news throughout the day. I check in on these threads and these boards throughout the day. What I hear from conservatives when we talk about how the majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry? "That's just #fakenews". I have YET to see a conservative accept that as truth.

We will never have reasonable debate if we can't at least agree on the things that are not up for debate...the facts. We live in two different information universes. And until all of us start assembling and absorbing the same set of facts, this is going nowhere and will only get worse.

#MAGAandbringWalterCronkiteback

Quote: Steverinos

I check in on these threads and these boards throughout the day. What I hear from conservatives when we talk about how the majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry? "That's just #fakenews". I have YET to see a conservative accept that as truth.

When?

Quote: RS

When?

When what? When did they deny that majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry?

President Trump has consistently used "drugs pouring in through our southern border" as justification for a wall. But that's not what the facts tells us. The facts say that the majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry, both ground AND sea. A wall would not stop drugs from "pouring into our country."

So how can we expect to have reasonable debate when we believe different things? Really, this is all I'm asking for. Let's lay out the facts we can all agree on, and THEN have a reasonable debate. We used to do this. Not anymore.

Quote: Steverinos

When what? When did they deny that majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry?

Uh, yeah...

Quote: Steverinos

President Trump has consistently used "drugs pouring in through our southern border" as justification for a wall. But that's not what the facts tells us. The facts say that the majority of drugs come through legal ports of entry, both ground AND sea. A wall would not stop drugs from "pouring into our country."

So how can we expect to have reasonable debate when we believe different things? Really, this is all I'm asking for. Let's lay out the facts we can all agree on, and THEN have a reasonable debate. We used to do this. Not anymore.

We cannot have a "reasonable debate" because people like you are unreasonable.

"A WALL WILL NOT STOP ALL DRUGS SO A WALL IS A STUPID IDEA!"

Until you accept that a wall is a smart part of even basic security, there is zero use debating with your side. Fact is if a Democrat POTUS wanted a wall you would be bragging how tough he was on border security.

We believe in different things for sure. Conservatives want border security. Liberals want open borders.

Quote: RS

Uh, yeah...

I don't think I saw one conservative person throughout the government shutdown concede this as truth. I saw people saying "well we don't know for sure" and "we couldn't possibly know that."

When Trump declared his lol emergency, remember the emergency where he said that "I didn't have to do this", he flat out said that the assertions that most drugs that cross the border come in through port of entry "all a lie. Wrong, it's wrong. It's just a lie. It's all a lie." And since the Republicans have aboslutely no spine when it comes to this man, you think they are going to undercut him when making the case for him? No way!

Maybe President Trump should read his own government's assessment. They are lying to?

Wait, nevermind, forgot...Deep State.

Quote: AZDuffman

We cannot have a "reasonable debate" because people like you are unreasonable.

"A WALL WILL NOT STOP ALL DRUGS SO A WALL IS A STUPID IDEA!"

Until you accept that a wall is a smart part of even basic security, there is zero use debating with your side. Fact is if a Democrat POTUS wanted a wall you would be bragging how tough he was on border security.

We believe in different things for sure. Conservatives want border security. Liberals want open borders.

I'm unreasonable?

I support the Gang of Eight bi-partisan bill that garnered Republican support in 2013 that included fencing. You said a path to citizenship is a non-starter and therefor do not support that bill. One of us is being unreasonable here. Think long and short on who that might be.

and lol lol lol lol at the idea a Democrat would even make it out of the primary with a campaign slogan of "build the wall!" "Who's gonna pay for it?" "MEXICO!" Laughable.

Quote: AZDuffman

We cannot have a "reasonable debate" because people like you are unreasonable.
"A WALL WILL NOT STOP ALL DRUGS SO A WALL IS A STUPId IDEA!

A wall is a deterrent, not a total solution.
Like putting security cams around your
house. They can't stop a home invasion,
but they sure as hell deter them.

You pay for a wall once and it's working
24/7. Walls at borders are being built
all over the world because they work.

Quote: Steverinos

I don't think I saw one conservative person throughout the government shutdown concede this as truth. I saw people saying "well we don't know for sure" and "we couldn't possibly know that."

When Trump declared his lol emergency, remember the emergency where he said that "I didn't have to do this", he flat out said that the assertions that most drugs that cross the border come in through port of entry "all a lie. Wrong, it's wrong. It's just a lie. It's all a lie." And since the Republicans have aboslutely no spine when it comes to this man, you think they are going to undercut him when making the case for him? No way!

Maybe President Trump should read his own government's assessment. They are lying to?

Wait, nevermind, forgot...Deep State.

Like you mentioned and I quoted, I'm talking about people on this forum saying that.

Quote: Steverinos

I'm unreasonable?

Yes. Both unreasonable and overloaded with TDS. If Trump came out and said breathing oxygen was a good thing, you would throw a hissy fit and say "the air we breathe is mostly nitrogen! He is unreasonable!"

Quote:

I support the Gang of Eight bi-partisan bill that garnered Republican support in 2013 that included fencing. You said a path to citizenship is a non-starter and therefor do not support that bill. One of us is being unreasonable here. Think long and short on who that might be.

I do not want citizenship for those who came illegally. Let them be a permanent resident. But citizenship? Nope. And they should never be allowed to vote, EVER. They get what they want, to live here. So why would Democrats not agree to that since they say they care so much about them?

Quote:

and lol lol lol lol at the idea a Democrat would even make it out of the primary with a campaign slogan of "build the wall!" "Who's gonna pay for it?" "MEXICO!" Laughable.

They are trying to get out with the slogan, "Tear down the border walls." Really sad as they are not joking.

Quote: RS

Quote: Steverinos

I don't think I saw one conservative person throughout the government shutdown concede this as truth. I saw people saying "well we don't know for sure" and "we couldn't possibly know that."

When Trump declared his lol emergency, remember the emergency where he said that "I didn't have to do this", he flat out said that the assertions that most drugs that cross the border come in through port of entry "all a lie. Wrong, it's wrong. It's just a lie. It's all a lie." And since the Republicans have aboslutely no spine when it comes to this man, you think they are going to undercut him when making the case for him? No way!

Maybe President Trump should read his own government's assessment. They are lying to?

Wait, nevermind, forgot...Deep State.

Like you mentioned and I quoted, I'm talking about people on this forum saying that.

Went back and read my post. I was talking in more general terms about conservatives throughout the debate, not necessarily specifically on this board. I can see why you'd think I was referencing just this board. My fault, your bad.

I might go back and look but I already consider this a time sink, lol.

Trump Blasts DNC for Barring Fox News From Debates: Then I’ll Do the Same ‘With the Fake News Networks’

DNC says no debates on Fox. Trump
says great, he won't do any debates
on CNN/MS. Trump wins again. lol

Quote: terapined

The wall is not the answer
A properly funded border patrol is the answer
I'm a fiscal conservative, I don't believe in wasting money on a dumb wall
Properly fund the border patrol and let them independently determine the best use of money to secure the border
Trump does lie a lot
AOC may say some dumb things, but she is nowhere as dumb as that orange moron we have for a President
Trump is incredibly dumb and he has power, that is a dangerous combination

I agree, with everything, except I do believe Ocasio Cortez is dumber than Trump. If AOC had Trump's power, her lack of knowledge would be more in plain sight.
Like you, I am not pro wall or anti wall. I want someone smarter than me on the subject of border security to come up with the best method of stopping these 2500 criminals from entering our country every day! And even if they plan on just working at one of those jobs that rich Republicans hire them for, they start out as criminals even if they commit no more other crimes. And I am aware there are other types of illegal immigrants, like Chinese who overstay visas, and keeping the 2500 daily Mexican criminals out is not mutually exclusive from tracking down the Chinese visa overstayers.

Quote: EvenBob

Trump Blasts DNC for Barring Fox News From Debates: Then I’ll Do the Same ‘With the Fake News Networks’

DNC says no debates on Fox. Trump
says great, he won't do any debates
on CNN/MS. Trump wins again. lol

Uhhh... what is he even talking about? What debates is he going to be in on CNN or MSNBC? Is he getting primaried?! lol

The general election debates are run by an independent organization separate from any network.

Quote: SOOPOO

I want someone smarter than me on the subject of border security to come up with the best method of stopping these 2500 criminals from entering our country every day! .

There is NO OTHER WAY! Sure you could
build a jail compound every 5 miles and
patrol the whole border , but that would
be a wall too. A hugely stupid expensive
wall.

The wall will get built or we lose the country,
it's really that simple. Getting people to
the border is a billion dollar business now,
and getting worse every week.

Quote: ams288

Quote: EvenBob

Trump Blasts DNC for Barring Fox News From Debates: Then I’ll Do the Same ‘With the Fake News Networks’

DNC says no debates on Fox. Trump
says great, he won't do any debates
on CNN/MS. Trump wins again. lol

Uhhh... what is he even talking about? What debates is he going to be in on CNN or MSNBC? Is he getting primaried?! lol

The general election debates are run by an independent organization separate from any network.

Is it possible DJT will not participate in debating the Democrat nominee if it will be aired on CNN or MSNBC? The debates may be run by a non partisan organization, but I believe is aired on multiple networks. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that DJT will use this as an excuse to try and set the terms of a debate to not include those two networks. I'm guessing he will fail.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: ams288

Quote: EvenBob

Trump Blasts DNC for Barring Fox News From Debates: Then I’ll Do the Same ‘With the Fake News Networks’

DNC says no debates on Fox. Trump
says great, he won't do any debates
on CNN/MS. Trump wins again. lol

Uhhh... what is he even talking about? What debates is he going to be in on CNN or MSNBC? Is he getting primaried?! lol

The general election debates are run by an independent organization separate from any network.

Is it possible DJT will not participate in debating the Democrat nominee if it will be aired on CNN or MSNBC? The debates may be run by a non partisan organization, but I believe is aired on multiple networks. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that DJT will use this as an excuse to try and set the terms of a debate to not include those two networks. I'm guessing he will fail.

Any network can air the general election debates, just like the State of the Union for example. No network has any specific rights to them. If he thinks he can stop certain networks from airing them, he’s sorely mistaken.

Quote: EvenBob

There is NO OTHER WAY! Sure you could
build a jail compound every 5 miles and
patrol the whole border , but that would
be a wall too. A hugely stupid expensive
wall.

The wall will get built or we lose the country,
it's really that simple. Getting people to
the border is a billion dollar business now,
and getting worse every week.

Walls work. The liberal excuses and saying they want "intelligent security" are so amusing. Like they think we actually believe them.

It just came to me another way the liberals objections are a total joke. Notice how they say that "most illegals overstay their visas?" Well, wouldn't the best way to end that be to get rid of sanctuary cities and require that a person on an overstay be turned over to ICE when found? Yet the liberals demand that nobody be turned over to ICE, ever.

Quote: AZDuffman

Walls work. The liberal excuses and saying they want "intelligent security" are so amusing. Like they think we actually believe them.

It just came to me another way the liberals objections are a total joke. Notice how they say that "most illegals overstay their visas?" Well, wouldn't the best way to end that be to get rid of sanctuary cities and require that a person on an overstay be turned over to ICE when found? Yet the liberals demand that nobody be turned over to ICE, ever.

Law enforcement does not enforce civil laws. For example we would not expect LEO to report marijuana users to the feds because state laws trump federal laws. So let ICE do their own enforcement.

Walls will not stop the drug trade nor will it stop illegal immigration. We already know via the recent El Chappo case that the great majority of drugs come through legal points of entry. The caravans also would be applying legally for asylum were it not for the trump admin's decision to meter to the point where they see no choice but to cross illegally. Today, a wall would stop that... Until someone builds a tunnel, boat, or ladder to circumvent it.

And I support AZ -- green cards only -- not citizenship.

Quote: AZDuffman

He didn't say "30,000,000 coming per month." He said, "30,000,000 immigrants here, and more coming each month."

Two different things.

Ah. For want of a comma....thanks for the clarification.

Quote: RonC

Forget how it was written (I added commas to make it more clear to everyone)--there are millions of illegals here and thousands coming in each month.

What would you propose doing about it?

Should unlimited amounts of illegal immigrants be allowed in?

If you supported fencing under President Obama or before, What changed your mind from wanting more fencing to not wanting any more replaced/added?

Is there a "breaking point" number of illegal immigrants that we can support as a nation?

Ok, thanks for the clarification.

I think it's been a bi-partisan effort, until this administration, to provide the tools and resources necessary for the Border Patrol to be most effective while considering terrain, demand, vulnerabilities, dozens of other factors. And the statistics show that they have been increasingly effective, if you look at the decades trend charts in that article. I would say the effort has continued to rise to the task over that time.

What has changed my mind about that is Trump changing from an "iron fist in velvet glove" approach that combined to provide deterrence and compassion in some balance, to a jingoist, racist, simplistic and deceptive "solution" that had no nuance or practical use. Lying to his rabid supporters about how it could be be paid for (and asking the Mexican President to back up his lies). Turning his xenophobic and isolationist policies into Administrative action through aggressive skewing of procedures and dereliction of supporting legal immigration and asylum, to where people attempting to enter legally were stalled, turned away ilegally, starved, separated, imprisoned, and lost . And positioning himself as a savior of "American Purity" by turning a Wall into a personal symbol of his domination.

We were already getting it right. Trump jumped on it as an opportunity to create hate and discontent in order to position himself as the one person who could fix it. "I alone can fix this!" he shouted at rally after rally. He was lying, conning unhappy people whose jobs were becoming obsolete, whose paychecks were not keeping up with the cost of being above the poverty line, whose history lessons did not include any understanding of how much immigrants of ALL backgrounds have contributed to building this country into greatness, who were still fighting a war they lost 150 years ago, and/or who were looking for someone else to blame for their frustration and fear of their and their children's future prospects.

Obama, with the strong support of both parties, bailed out the big banks, insurance companies, car companies, and rich people. They assumed setting things right after the botched Bush years of deregulation and greed would bring the entire country up, top to bottom. They were wrong.

It didn't trickle.down - it just made a bunch of greedy people even richer, while the 98% lost their houses, their discretionary income, their jobs, and any secure hold they had on the American dream. The Republicans, in particular, have gotten exactly what they deserve - the complete implosion of their party, their platform, their conservatism, their high ground in claiming a person should work hard, earn their way, and the government should stay out of their way while they do that.

The Trump Administration, without discretion, has dismantled and destroyed nearly every Department under its administration. Almost without exception, those ostensibly tasked with running departments are people with business backgrounds opposing the regulatory goals of those departments, and given free rein while Trump capers and twitters for the camera to do exactly that.

The border wall fiasco reflects all of that larger agenda. Face and Rudeboyoi will be proud (though Face was recently critical of it) to see that it is, in fact, all burning right now. We'll be muddled for a decade trying to find and fix all the damage.

Quote: beachbumbabs

So how does 76000 illegal immigrants per month

What's the breakdown on immigrants applying for asylum? Coming to the border and applying for asylum versus trying to sneak across are two different things. Patrolling the length of the border is way more labor intensive than putting people in a cue who come right to an entry point.

Quote: rxwine

What's the breakdown on immigrants applying for asylum? Coming to the border and applying for asylum versus trying to sneak across are two different things. Patrolling the length of the border is way more labor intensive than putting people in a cue who come right to an entry point.

This is part of what's in question. Border control is not doing their job the way they did before Trump.and Sessions started manipulating it. They put in bottlenecks and additional procedural roadblocks, cut staffing, shortened business hours, and closed some processing stations.

They claimed at least some (no numbers avsilable, but lots of testimony and eyewitness accounts of this) legally asking for asylum were illegals, which has probably inflated the numbers. And slowing down the process has created a backlog the system was never designed to sustain, as well as delaying people past their financial or other breaking point, exacerbating their desperation to the point where they will risk an illegal crossing they never intended to try.

Which is all intentional. They are trying to force a reportable crisis in order to impose their emergency actions. Check that box, as EB just did. It must be true, the NYT reported it (paraphrasing from earlier today). Plenty of Border Patrol grunts and activists are telling people about the manipulation and machinations among the orders being given.

The FAA went through some very analogous schemes in the last couple decades. They froze ATC hiring for 11 years. We warned them for the last half dozen that the retirement bubble was coming, we (first Gen post-strike) were aging out and forced early go's, and there was no staffing. Despite this, Republicans and the Bush Administration did not hire and train.

That's because they wanted the system to fail in order to force a crisis of incompetency and poor planning within the government. Then they could force privatization and sell off the National Airspace System and ATC to their contractor buddies for less than a penny on the dollar, fire-saling the finest ATC system in the world and stealing YOUR most valuable public asset.

That fight is still going on. As are dozens of others. But that's the model, from school vouchers to private prisons to private armies, all across the government. Border security is no different. There's trillions in long-term contracts to be had for building, sustaining, and guarding a 3000 mile wall over a couple decades.

That's the intent of all of this, the big picture. It's not about protecting us as a country. It's about the money - taxpayer dollars funneled into private, profit-taking companies instead of the government employing and administering their functions. And the easiest way to get public support for that approach is to show incompetence or inadequacy in the government currently doing it.

Quote: ams288

Any network can air the general election debates,

He's saying if any of the fake news networks
air his debates with the Dem nominee, he'll
drop out. He doesn't need the debates
anyway, he's the popular incumbent, he
has the bully pulpit. The Dem needs the
debate desperately.

If they can ban Fox, he can drop them.

Guess I wasn't the only one who thought R. Kelly reaction to being accused was like Kavanaugh. Guess they are both "innocent".

Quote: beachbumbabs

Ok,

Obama, with the strong support of both parties, bailed out the big banks, insurance companies, car companies, and rich people. They assumed setting things right after the botched Bush years of deregulation and greed would bring the entire country up, top to bottom. They were wrong.

Uh, TARP was passed Oct 3, 2008. Before Obama was even elected. Other than voting on it he had nothing to do with passing it. BTW: it was intended for the financial sector, not the auto sector. Obama re-routed money in the same way that you are complaining money for the wall is being re-routed.

I won't even go in to that "deregulation" had nothing to do with it as the banks were at the time highly regulated.

Quote: boymimbo

Law enforcement does not enforce civil laws. For example we would not expect LEO to report marijuana users to the feds because state laws trump federal laws. So let ICE do their own enforcement.

Law enforcement checks for and holds people on warrants all the time. This is no different.

Quote:

Walls will not stop the drug trade nor will it stop illegal immigration. We already know via the recent El Chappo case that the great majority of drugs come through legal points of entry. The caravans also would be applying legally for asylum were it not for the trump admin's decision to meter to the point where they see no choice but to cross illegally. Today, a wall would stop that... Until someone builds a tunnel, boat, or ladder to circumvent it.

And I support AZ -- green cards only -- not citizenship.

No one thing will stop everything. Do you lock your car? Because I can walk up now and smash the window to break into it. If I put my mind to it I could teach myself to break in without smashing the window in a day or so. (I once interviewed for a job where a guy told me it would take an afternoon to teach me to break into any car. Legit job, BTW,) So why do you bother locking it at all?

The "asylum" thing is word games. The USA is under no obligation to have speed up the process. And it has been stated here many times before that if asylum claims are legit, the caravans need to apply in Mexico, not the USA. It is about entry to gain welfare and live in the USA.

Sadly the real solution is some Central American nations probably need to be recolonized for 100 years.

Quote: EvenBob

He's saying if any of the fake news networks
air his debates with the Dem nominee, he'll
drop out. He doesn't need the debates
anyway, he's the popular incumbent, he
has the bully pulpit. The Dem needs the
debate desperately.

If they can ban Fox, he can drop them.

Yeah, cause he’s an awful debater. Hillary kicked his ass in the debates.

Hopefully he would drop out. They’d still hold them and just give the Dem candidate 90 minutes of free airtime.

Quote: AZDuffman

Uh, TARP was passed Oct 3, 2008. Before Obama was even elected. Other than voting on it he had nothing to do with passing it. BTW: it was intended for the financial sector, not the auto sector. Obama re-routed money in the same way that you are complaining money for the wall is being re-routed.

I won't even go in to that "deregulation" had nothing to do with it as the banks were at the time highly regulated.

Uhhh...both Obama and McCain were extremely involved in TARP. They were both Senators, and both were heavily involved in structure and planning throughout the fall, committing to support the implementation and continuation of it, because obviously one or the other was going to be in power during almost all of the repercussions. They even canceled some events and moved a debate date to go deal with it.

As to condescension, did you like how I Uhhh 'ed you back? It's the next thing to saying I'm stupid, at a minimum ignorant. Your claims about liberals and TDS in the previous are slurs as you use them (and worse I've seen from you), designed to make yourself bigger by making me smaller. It's how you make yourself unwelcome in political discussions.

Take a few clues from petrograph would you please?He is more conservative than you, but he never stoops to the snide little jabs you put into every post directed at me and several others. He posts to have a conversation with different viewpoints, not to score points. I don't doubt it's more amusing to smirk about triggering people who disagree with you, but it would be a better country if we talked to each other instead.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Uhhh...both Obama and McCain were extremely involved in TARP. They were both Senators, and both were heavily involved in structure and planning throughout the fall, committing to support the implementation and continuation of it, because obviously one or the other was going to be in power during almost all of the repercussions. They even canceled some events and moved a debate date to go deal with it.

That is not at all how you implied it. IIRC, McCain suspended his campaign and suggested delaying the debate, Obama did not and would not agree to reschedule. Bottom line is it was passed under Bush, not Obama.

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As to condescension, did you like how I Uhhh 'ed you back?

I barely noticed and really do not care. An "uhhh" on an internet forum is not even a blip on my day.

Quote:

It's the next thing to saying I'm stupid, at a minimum ignorant. Your claims about liberals and TDS in the previous are slurs as you use them (and worse I've seen from you), designed to make yourself bigger by making me smaller. It's how you make yourself unwelcome in political discussions.

They are not "slurs" at all. They are descriptive. There is a ton of TDS on this forum. A ton of liberals not accepting reality (e.g.: "A wall will not do anything!") If there were not claims of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc in discussions and they stayed on logic then I would probably be on a different tone.

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Take a few clues from petrograph would you please?He is more conservative than you, but he never stoops to the snide little jabs you put into every post directed at me and several others. He posts to have a conversation with different viewpoints, not to score points. I don't doubt it's more amusing to smirk about triggering people who disagree with you, but it would be a better country if we talked to each other instead.

I try to have a conversation. I wish others would as well.

Quote: AZDuffman

I try to have a conversation. I wish others would as well.

This is why I have suspended posting several times. There is no (or very little) conversation here and no minds are changing one iota.

Name the problem and it will be Trump's fault.

I left out a pair of commas and BBB thinks I meant 30,000,000 were coming in a month. Good Lord. Thing is, I know she knows better than that.

Trump's horrible, therefore we cannot do anything about the border.

We'll waste a couple more years, maybe six, and then we'll still have the problem.

If Democrats or so much better, they could win the election by making more sense of the issue and actually having Nancy, Chuck, and all the Presidential candidates attempting to do something positive about it, giving Trump enough to put him in a corner, and use political skill to win the day.

They won't.

Quote: RonC

Trump's horrible, therefore we cannot do anything about the border.

We'll waste a couple more years, maybe six, and then we'll still have the problem.

If Democrats or so much better, they could win the election by making more sense of the issue and actually having Nancy, Chuck, and all the Presidential candidates attempting to do something positive about it, giving Trump enough to put him in a corner, and use political skill to win the day.

They won't.

You keep acting like the border is the only issue that anyone cares about, when in fact, there are other more important issues that actually affect people’s day-to-day lives!

Quote: RonC

Name the problem and it will be Trump's fault.

He should balance the budget
I was a fiscal republican voter because I believed the republicans would balance the budget
That's out the window and is Trumps fault

Quote: RonC

This is why I have suspended posting several times. There is no (or very little) conversation here and no minds are changing one iota.

Name the problem and it will be Trump's fault.

I come and go too, for the same reasons. Weather will be getting nicer soon, DST this weekend, so time to go outside and do something useful.

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I left out a pair of commas and BBB thinks I meant 30,000,000 were coming in a month. Good Lord. Thing is, I know she knows better than that.

I made it out just fine, just took the context and used some common sense.

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Trump's horrible, therefore we cannot do anything about the border.

We'll waste a couple more years, maybe six, and then we'll still have the problem.

If Democrats or so much better, they could win the election by making more sense of the issue and actually having Nancy, Chuck, and all the Presidential candidates attempting to do something positive about it, giving Trump enough to put him in a corner, and use political skill to win the day.

They won't.

Nope, they won't. They will just keep calling names of racist, sexist, homophobe. They will call for open borders more and more. They will keep leapfrogging each other as they move to the left, all to appease their crazy base. They will keep trying to impeach on the grounds of not liking him.

Reality is the USA will probably not remain a united country to see her 300th birthday.

Quote: AZDuffman

Reality is the USA will probably not remain a united country to see her 300th birthday.

All thanks to Donald and the corrupt GOP... Sad.

Quote: terapined

He should balance the budget
I was a fiscal republican voter because I believed the republicans would balance the budget
That's out the window and is Trumps fault

I would like to see him do what hasn't been done since 2001 under both parties--Clinton submitted the last balanced budget.

Fiscal conservatism did not go out the window with Trump but, yes, he could do something about getting back in that direction. Even if he submitted a balanced budget, I don't think it would pass the House...but I don't think we will find that out.

Quote: ams288

All thanks to Donald and the corrupt GOP... Sad.

Sadly, you see the problems on the right very well and hardly ever have anything to say about the problems the left causes us.

Trump will only be President 4-8 years. It isn't all him, or all the GOP, by a long shot.