card counter sues planet hollywood
Quote: pokerdanielThey would no allow me to actually give hem $200.00 for two racks of chips o take of the premises.
Each RFID chip only costs about $2.50 to make, which is about double the price of regular chips.
They'd probably be losing money on the deal.
Quote: pokerdanielAs an attorney, I would argue that the chips are actually the casino's property and they can confiscate them for any reasonable need. When we gamble in a casino the chips are the casino's property and used to play games and exchanged for money. It reminds me of a carnival or arcade. You give money and get tokens to use and play games whereby you can win prizes. Interestingly a lot of those coins and tokens state, and are inscribed "No cash value". Chips in the casino have a monetary value. However, can they be used as currency? The simple answer is NO!! You can not use the chips to make purchases in the hotels throughout Vegas. The chips have "No Cash" value. The casino honors the chips and gives you money to technically by back their property. Does this mean you can't take a chip home with you? Of course not, but casino's frequently replace chips and uncirculate chips for his purpose. When casino's get robbed they quickly discount and take those chips off the market.
We exchange chips for money at the casino. The casino pays face value for the tokens/chip and only allow people to borrow them. You are not buying chips when ou give cash at the table for a stack of chips. I learned his when I use to play poker a lot. I wanted to buy racks on $1.00 chips from the Bellagio and take hem home to use for personal homes. They would no allow me to actually give hem $200.00 for two racks of chips o take of the premises.
Anyways.. just some fuel for thought.
Property that has been exchanged for cash means that the cash must be returned if the property is being confiscated back.
The terms of that are either in a contract or, as in casino chips, a verbal contract subject to state statutes.
For a comparison, a tenant hands over a security deposit to live on a premises that is owned by a landlord. The landlord has the right to evict (confiscate) the premises from the tenant BUT pursuant to state law. He cannot simply kick the person out without showing just cause in court. Also, even if he wins, the security deposit must be returned (unless damages can be shown that required repair or lost rent).
Casinos have a similar contract with the patron albeit a verbal one. They cannot simply keep money after confiscating the property.
June 20, 2013: Detained at Planet Hollywood Las Vegas
July 2013: Detained at Harrah's Atlantic City
November 2013: Detained at Showboat Atlantic City
Mr. Miller certainly was busy getting himself noticed at Caesars properties in that six month period of 2013. If he were a member here, he may well have been accused of the dreaded infraction of trolling. Professional gamblers, especially card counters, go to great lengths to go unnoticed, to blend in, to stay under the radar. This does not seem to be the case here. He certainly had to know that, at the very least, all Caesars properties would be on the lookout for him. He had to expect flyers of him in every pit.
Why did I predict a six figure settlement? Many reasons not about law or what he said they said, or even who was right or wrong. In the Jersey case, our guy is representing himself causing me to think of that old saying about having a fool for a client. It's the Nevada case that could yield the settlement. It could come down to Caesars wanting to cut their losses and not exposing themselves to negative publicity. Mr. Miller also has an attorney who has a good track record and who may strike fear in the hearts of casinos. Who knows what could come out at trial that would make them look like the buffoons that many already think they are? They may not want to chance that.
No one knows if a jury will ever hear this case but whatever the outcome, you can bet that Caesars will want a gag order on it. I hope the guy wins. Does he deserve it? That's impossible to say without the facts but I hope he wins because I don't like casinos. Try finding a jury whose members don't feel the same. It could come down to something as simple as that. So much for right or wrong.
Quote: Gandler... them security had every right to subdue him until the cops show up. .... He got detained by security before the police showed up to take him.
This is what really gets me about this story, from a UK reader perspective. There's discussion about whether the casino could retain his chips, but barely a mention of his being handcuffed and detained.
Here in the UK, it would be wrongful imprisonment (tantamount to kidnap) to stop the guy leaving and even if he did kick off bigtime, it would be almost unthinkable for a private security guard to cuff him. It would only be legal to detain him in any case, in the UK, if the Security guard had reasonable cause to believe that an offence had already been committed. Surely, if his only offence was to refuse to leave, then there was zero excuse there to restrain him: Just call the real police, as he's not going anywhere. If maybe he had become violent, in action or even in his demeanour, then the guard might have considered that to be an assualt on him, and the guard could then justify defending himself, but only to the reasonable extent required.
Quote: HunterhillHe filed in Nj pro se to get the case going. The Nj attorneys will be added to his case at a later date. This was mentioned on a different site.
I'm really happy to hear that. Thanks for the clarification.
Quote: darkozGandler,
Bob is an attorney who has fought for gambler's rights for many years. He does not run a talk show. He has appeared on some as a guest.
You are running into resistance because you are saying things like "nor do I care" which shows apathy to any research that might prove you wrong.
Many people on here are gamblers and AP's and are going to respect someone who fights for their rights.
Casinos have been shown (in court of law from several past cases) to violate gambler's trust and civil rights.
Bob has been someone who has fought for those rights.
As for video evidence which you keep insisting will prove the truth, I highly doubt that would be satisfactory for you either. I see when I referred to the Binns case, of which there is plenty of video evidence from Harrah's AC own surveillance system showing the family attacked and beaten, your response suddenly became "well, there is more to the story the video isn't revealing."
If you want to support the casinos in all actions regardless of any possible recrimination, regardless of any evidence when presented, regardless of the opinions of top attorneys, regardless of past casino actions and regardless of past civil findings as well as state and federal laws then go ahead and do so, but you will not find many supporters on this forum.
The video was very revealing. I said your interpretation of it was not. My quotes was " it not cut and dry as you are making it sound". I sided with CET after seeing the video. The family was acting aggressive and disobeyed the security guards and manager.
The video in this case will also no doubt reveal the truth about if he was actually "trying to leave" or not...
Quote: GandlerThe video was very revealing. I said your interpretation of it was not. My quotes was " it not cut and dry as you are making it sound". I sided with CET after seeing the video. The family was acting aggressive and disobeyed the security guards and manager.
The video in this case will also no doubt reveal the truth about if he was actually "trying to leave" or not...
Mr. Loveman, can I get some free rooms at one of your Vegas properties?
Never let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
Cet is a corporation they must be in the right over an AP.
That's like saying you always side with the police, because we know the police wouldn't ever do anything wrong.
Quote: HunterhillGandler "Even if his story is 100% accurate I still side with cet"
Never let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
Cet is a corporation they must be in the right over an AP.
That's like saying you always side with the police, because we know the police wouldn't ever do anything wrong.
I could say the same to you. You are assuming one side is right based on the claims of one (obviously biased) man. You have not seen security footage. You have not interviewed people to find non related witnesses in the casino. You have not heard CET's official stance or claim.
You are literally taking the claim of one man as likley true, and then acting like I am crazy for following the scientific method.
Quote: GandlerI could say the same to you. You are assuming one side is right based on the claims of one (obviously biased) man. You have not seen security footage. You have not interviewed people to find non related witnesses in the casino. You have not heard CET's official stance or claim.
You are literally taking the claim of one man as likley true, and then acting like I am crazy for following the scientific method.
The scientific method is to say that without seeing security footage or hearing from non-related witnesses in the casino and even if the man is 100% accurate in his version that you side with CET?
No if the evidence shows that Mr Miller was the cause of this and the casino did no wrong I would side with the casino. You said even if the evidence shows Miller was telling the truth you still would side with the casino.Quote: GandlerI could say the same to you. You are assuming one side is right based on the claims of one (obviously biased) man. You have not seen security footage. You have not interviewed people to find non related witnesses in the casino. You have not heard CET's official stance or claim.
You are literally taking the claim of one man as likley true, and then acting like I am crazy for following the scientific method.
Quote: HunterhillNo if the evidence shows that Mr Miller was the cause of this and the casino did no wrong I would side with the casino. You said even if the evidence shows Miller was telling the truth you still would side with the casino.
Based on the account as told in the article, likely yes. It sounds very clear to me he was going there to start problems even based on his version...
Gandler I can only think that you are a casino employee or somehow have a relationship with cet.
I'm just glad that you're not the judge in this case.
"when he saw that he was being watched and decided to leave"Quote: GandlerBased on the account as told in the article, likely yes. It sounds very clear to me he was going there to start problems even based on his version...
Sounds to me he didn't want any problems, he just wants to count cards.
If he wanted a problem he would have stayed until management and security came to get him.
The security guard was probably pissed he was smart enough to take a picture of the chips.
Quote: pelotariSo what if it's another 28 year old player cashing in $4975 in chips and the cashier asks him for ID and he realizes he left his ID in his hotel room at another casino? He tells them he doesn't have ID with him and they say....Ok, we are keeping these chips....now leave or be thrown out for trespassing. That's insane. Just give him the chips back and say we can't cash them without ID. The casino keeping the chips is where they went wrong. Then it snowballed from there.
He could have given his SSN. I don't want to speculate, but I'm sure they would also give an option to hold if you are willing to go to your room or get your ID.
Quote: HunterhillYeah he caused all the problems because he's a winning player not s loser.For that he should be held hostage.
Gandler I can only think that you are a casino employee or somehow have a relationship with cet.
I'm just glad that you're not the judge in this case.
He caused all of the problems because he was cashing out 5k and refused to ID or give his SSN...
He was a pro ap. He knew the cash out rules better than anyone. He wanted to get detained so he can sue.
Quote: GandlerHe could have given his SSN. I don't want to speculate, but I'm sure they would also give an option to hold if you are willing to go to your room or get your ID.
He caused all of the problems because he was cashing out 5k and refused to ID or give his SSN...
He was a pro ap. He knew the cash out rules better than anyone. He wanted to get detained so he can sue.
So if it was you, and you had your ID in a hotel room at another casino a mile or so away....you would go get your ID and LEAVE THE CHIPS THERE??? Again, that's insane. You and me and everyone else would want to take the chips with you, go get your ID, and return to cash them. The casino keeping the chips is ridiculous.
Quote: HunterhillOnce again you don't have to give id or ssn for 5k.
That's not true.
CTP requirement is $10K, but many state gaming law says plainly that if the transaction is $3000 or more, it must be ID'd and entered into an internal log.
That is to keep track of the daily total transactions of any player.
Quote: 1BBMay 24, 2013: Detained at Caesars Atlantic City
June 20, 2013: Detained at Planet Hollywood Las Vegas
July 2013: Detained at Harrah's Atlantic City
November 2013: Detained at Showboat Atlantic City
I am surprised that CET didn't trespass him to all CET casinos.
Maybe CET already did, if that's the case, this guy is looking for trouble.
Quote: HunterhillIn many states the law says the casino must ask you for id but if the player declines they still have to pay him. Maybe some states are different.
Not what I read. The casino must (not maybe) refuse the transaction until the player shows his/her ID. It doesn't say that the casino can confiscate the chips or voucher, only refuse the transaction.
Atlantic City can't 86 you for counting. That's why the bogus charges.Quote: pokerfaceI am surprised that CET didn't trespass him to all CET casinos.
Maybe CET already did, if that's the case, this guy is looking for trouble.
He was 86'd from Harrah's in Atlantic City, perhaps two or three years ago and went to visit his brother in Vegas this past summer. When he applied for a player's club card at one of the CET properties they told him there was a notation on his account and he would have to be cleared by security first.
He had never stepped foot inside that casino. Needless to say, he didn't wait for security and just told the host to never mind.
Quote: pokerfaceI am surprised that CET didn't trespass him to all CET casinos.
Maybe CET already did, if that's the case, this guy is looking for trouble.
I agree that he must be looking for/causing trouble.
Look this guy absolutely does not deserve to be harassed by management for card counting. I think we can all agree on that. I'm sure he'll get some kind of settlement (quietly, is the key) from Planet Hollywood, eventually.... and the lawyers will get a third. Good for him he was wronged, no question.
But his history of four detentions by CET security, in roughly a year, indicates a pattern of questionable behavior. This guy is clearly drawing attention to himself in some way. Then not handling the attention well when it comes. He needs to look in the mirror and figure out why he's been having so many issues. Otherwise his days of counting cards are severely limited.
Quote: vendman1I agree that he must be looking for/causing trouble.
Look this guy absolutely does not deserve to be harassed by management for card counting. I think we can all agree on that. I'm sure he'll get some kind of settlement (quietly, is the key) from Planet Hollywood, eventually.... and the lawyers will get a third. Good for him he was wronged, no question.
But his history of four detentions by CET security, in roughly a year, indicates a pattern of questionable behavior. This guy is clearly drawing attention to himself in some way. Then not handling the attention well when it comes. He needs to look in the mirror and figure out why he's been having so many issues. Otherwise his days of counting cards are severely limited.
Well, he may be a lousy card counter who has figured out the lawsuit hustle. In which case, his card counting days are not that important.
Quote: darkozWell, he may be a lousy card counter who has figured out the lawsuit hustle. In which case, his card counting days are not that important.
Well good point, that was an angle I hadn't considered. Still that's a limited return plan. You're only going to get one or two shots at a suit, before word gets around and a complete banning shuts you down all together. Still might be a nice payday. But I'd rather milk the cow for 20 years than slaughter it once.
Quote: HunterhillOnce again you don't have to give id or ssn for 5k.
Yes you do
Quote: pelotariSo if it was you, and you had your ID in a hotel room at another casino a mile or so away....you would go get your ID and LEAVE THE CHIPS THERE??? Again, that's insane. You and me and everyone else would want to take the chips with you, go get your ID, and return to cash them. The casino keeping the chips is ridiculous.
I would give my SSN.
But I have never not had my ID on me since I got a Driver's Lisence.
Especially at a casino. As a 28 year old he should know to have his ID at all times for age integrity, it is an environment where you can be IDd at any time.
Its obvious that he had his ID, he simply did not want to show it. The arrest report will show what items he had on his person. I bet his ID is on it...
Quote: GandlerYes you do
I would give my SSN.
But I have never not had my ID on me since I got a Driver's Lisence.
Especially at a casino. As a 28 year old he should know to have his ID at all times for age integrity, it is an environment where you can be IDd at any time.
Its obvious that he had his ID, he simply did not want to show it. The arrest report will show what items he had on his person. I bet his ID is on it...
Not carrying your ID is a bad idea.
Unlike a casino, the police do have a right to ask you for ID and hold you in a cell if you don't produce one.
Quote: sc15Not carrying your ID is a bad idea.
Unlike a casino, the police do have a right to ask you for ID and hold you in a cell if you don't produce one.
This is not 1940's Nazi Germany, you do not have to produce ID just because law enforcement asks you to.
Yes they are well within their right to ask just as you are well within your right to refuse.
Law enforcement must have reasonable articulable suspicion that you have or are about to commit
a crime before they can lawfully demand and force you to identify yourself.
You can watch many videos of people refusing to ID themselves to police on youtube, search Id refusal, checkpoint
refusal.
Quote: rainmanThis is not 1940's Nazi Germany, you do not have to produce ID just because law enforcement asks you to.
Yes they are well within their right to ask just as you are well within your right to refuse.
Law enforcement must have reasonable articulable suspicion that you have or are about to commit
a crime before they can lawfully demand and force you to identify yourself.
You can watch many videos of people refusing to ID themselves to police on youtube, search Id refusal, checkpoint
refusal.
This is correct. Law enforcement cannot arrest you if you choose not to show ID unless there is probable cause you have or are about to commit a crime.
There is one other instance and that is if you are driving and have been pulled over, I believe the driver has to show his license. But there still should be probable cause i.e. a traffic violation was observed. The cops are not supposed to pull over random motorists and ask for ID.
They have done that. My daughter was stopped and her car searched against her will. No ticket was issued and nothing was found.
Two years later she was awarded fifty grand for the incident.
Quote: pokerfaceThat's not true.
CTP requirement is $10K, but many state gaming law says plainly that if the transaction is $3000 or more, it must be ID'd and entered into an internal log.
That is to keep track of the daily total transactions of any player.
That's true, but if the player refuses to give ID they still need to process it, but they need to write down a physical description of the person instead for reporting requirements.
You don't have to produce an ID if a bartender asks for your ID. You don't have to show ID to a dealer or a pit boss if they ask for your ID, either.
Before you jump the gun, I will include (although it should be common sense) that if a dealer/pit boss/bartender/etc. ask for your ID and you refuse to give your ID, they can ask you to leave. Or they can let you stay there. Both have happened to me.
They've asked me for my ID while cashing out. I said I didn't have it. They still gave me my money and didn't steal my chips from me.
You can go to a bar, ask for a drink, and refuse ID. It's up to the bartender to serve you or not. But the bartender CANNOT take your money and not serve you. It's one or the other.
Quote: sc15...the police do have a right to ask you for ID and hold you in a cell if you don't produce one.
Even I know that to be BS ( and I don't mean basic strategy)
If the person is not reasonably suspected of committing a crime, they are not required to provide identification, even in states with stop and identify statutes
Jeez !!!
How few seem to know their own rights. Not knowing those rights is surely the first step to surrendering them.
Quote: sc15
Unlike a casino, the police do have a right to ask you for ID and hold you in a cell if you don't produce one.
absurd. I bicycle on the weekends in bike shorts, no pockets, designed for least air resistence. Leave the wallet home.
See tons like myself biking and probably without id.
police stop us and we cant produce id, get thrown in jail? Absurd.
once in jail, how do you produce id? I live alone. Friends dont have a key to my house.
life sentence now? LoL
Now I would cooperate, tell the officer name and addy, if really needs to confirm, welcome to follow me home while i ride my bike
No comment ;)Quote: terapinedabsurd. I bicycle on the weekends in bike shorts, no pockets, designed for least air resistence.
Quote: AxelWolfNo comment ;)
Its actually not about the air resistence for me, its the bike butt padding sewn in. Like to be comfy :-)
That doesn't take too long to read. Here are some highlights.
Quote:The BSA regulations3
require a casino to file a Casino SAR (SARC) for any
transaction conducted or attempted by, at, or through a casino, and involving or
aggregating at least $5,000 in funds or other assets, that the casino knows,
suspects, or has reason to suspect:
• involves funds derived from illegal activity or is intended or conducted
in order to hide or disguise funds or assets derived from illegal activity
(money laundering);
• is designed to evade the reporting or recordkeeping requirements of the
BSA (structuring);
• has no business or apparent lawful purpose or is not the sort in which the
particular customer would normally be expected to engage, and the casino
knows of no reasonable explanation for the transaction after examining
the available facts; or
• involves use of the casino to facilitate criminal activity.
To be REQUIRED to file a SAR(C), the transaction must be (or aggregate to be) $5000 or more *AND* suspect or suspicion of illegal activity. Cashing out $5K in it of itself doesn't require a SAR(C) to be filed. However, if a $2K cash out (although not meeting the $5K threshold) is suspicious, then it must be reported.
Quote:What makes a transaction suspicious?
A casino is required to file a SARC if you “know, suspect or have reason to
suspect “ an activity or transaction is suspicious. It is not required to have proof
of any illegality,
Quote:
If the casino is unable to identify a suspect on the
date it initially became aware of the suspicious transaction, the filer has an
additional 30 calendar days to file,
Along with:
Quote:Filling out a SARC
Completeness and accuracy are essential. Make sure all the required fields are
filled out as fully as possible and accurately, including the correct spelling of
proper names. If a casino has a middle name or middle initial for a suspect, it
should be included. If the casino has no identifying information about a customer
whose transactions are suspicious, the casino should provide the best possible
physical description of the customer in the “narrative” portion of the SARC.
ID is not required when filing a SAR(C).
Although I'm sure Qfit won't satisfy your "legitimate source" needs, here this: http://www.qfit.com/privacy7.htm
Quote:Cash Transaction Report (CTR)
....
A simple way to view this is:
An ID request resulting from cash exceeding $10,000 = Federal Law
An ID request resulting from cash less than $10,000 = Internal Casino Policy
For SARs:
Quote:Suspicious Activity Report (SAR)
...
Honing in on the regulation for identification required, this is where casinos are attempting to gain the upper hand by misinforming their patrons. The regulation clearly outlines the requirement for identification (government ID and social security number) for the sole purpose of filing a Report of transactions in currency. Such a report is required to be filed for currency transactions, single or multiple, exceeding $10,000.00. In fairness to casinos, they encounter players who engage in multiple cash exchanges throughout a 24-hour period and it is difficult to keep track as to whether the patron has exceeded the $10,000.00 threshold. For that purpose, most maintain Multiple Transaction Logs, where they will either have the patron's Player Card number, or in absence of that, a physical description of the patron. At that point, it is not a legal requirement to obtain the patron's official identification. The attempts made by the casino to do so are an anticipatory effort dictated by internal procedures. The tricky part is that if you do not wish to comply with the request, the casino may not permit any further currency exchanges with you. Even though you may have not approached the $10,000.00 mark, the casino can implement this as their internal policy to protect itself.
Sorry BBHB if I quoted something that cannot be quoted. I cited my sources though. :)
PS: There is no law about having to ID someone who "looks under 35". A friend of mine in college looked 40 even though he was 20. The liquor store people would ask for ID (since they hardly know English) so they can type the birthdate into the computer. They'd get really confused when his (fake) ID said he was 23 years old. I've sat down at a BJ table, dealer didn't ID me. Pit boss asked for my ID, dealer said something like, "What huh? How old do you think he is? He's like 35 or 40 probably." Not a week later, almost got kicked out of a casino because they thought I was 16 years old. If having to be ID'd because you appear to be under 35, then almost every single casino I've been in has broken this supposed law. Either that, or people think I look a damn lot older than I am.
Quote: RomesToo bad in this scenario that's not the case. He was simply exchanging casino currency for US dollars.
Also, the clerk could refuse to sell me what I'm trying to buy, but he doesn't have the right to keep the $100 bill I gave him to pay for it! He would hand my money back to me and say "get out of here or I'll call the cops."
Actually he can't even do that. Once he takes your money and you take the purchased product, that product is now legally yours.
This is also why you are free to ignore "receipt checkers" at big box stores. If they try to stop you (without actual evidence of shoplifting) that is unlawful detainment.
Quote: sodawaterActually he can't even do that. Once he takes your money and you take the purchased product, that product is now legally yours.
This is also why you are free to ignore "receipt checkers" at big box stores. If they try to stop you (without actual evidence of shoplifting) that is unlawful detainment.
At some Walmarts they ask to see your receipt as you exit. Normally I do show it. One time I was in a rush and I didn't want to dig out and open my wallet, then wait for them to check everything. When they asked me for my receipt, I just said, "no thanks" and kept walking. The guy was shocked and didn't know what to do.
I can imagine doing this often would lead to a problem.
I'm sure some people do it just because they like to agitate.
Quote: AxelWolfAt some Walmarts they ask to see your receipt as you exit. Normally I do show it. One time I was in a rush and I didn't want to dig out and open my wallet, then wait for them to check everything. When they asked me for my receipt, I just said, "no thanks" and kept walking. The guy was shocked and didn't know what to do.
I can imagine doing this often would lead to a problem.
I'm sure some people do it just because they like to agitate.
I think the only time you're obligated to stop for a receipt checker is at a place like costco / other stores that require a membership to shop there, since it's probably something you agreed to when you signed up for a membership.
But yeah, otherwise at a walmart they can't stop you to ask for a receipt.
I wonder what kind of settlement you might get if they try to illegally detain you at a walmart.
Quote: terapinedabsurd. I bicycle on the weekends in bike shorts, no pockets, designed for least air resistence. Leave the wallet home.
See tons like myself biking and probably without id.
police stop us and we cant produce id, get thrown in jail? Absurd.
once in jail, how do you produce id? I live alone. Friends dont have a key to my house.
life sentence now? LoL
Now I would cooperate, tell the officer name and addy, if really needs to confirm, welcome to follow me home while i ride my bike
1. They make all kinds of work out lamnyards and arm bands for ID and key holding.
2. Does your bike really have no compartments or baskets?
So by this same logic: somebody carrying a firearm without their ID on them should not be stopped by police since they have no requirement to show ID (which in most states they don't)? But police often ask ID from people who open carry anyway purely because they see them holding guns on their person...
Because after all carrying an ID is so heavy and such a hassle why should somebody carrying a loaded weapon (as constitutionally allowed) have to carry it with them?
Quote: Gandler1. They make all kinds of work out lamnyards and arm bands for ID and key holding.
Yea, so what. I go for a bike ride on the neighborhood trail. Who cares if I am riding without ID. Sheesh. Much ado about nothing.
Quote: Gandler2. Does your bike really have no compartments or baskets?
Commuter mountain bike, yes because I have a rack on the back I attach my backpack with my wallet
Weekend speedster bike, no.
Quote: Gandler
So by this same logic: somebody carrying a firearm without their ID on them should not be stopped by police since they have no requirement to show ID (which in most states they don't)? But police often ask ID from people who open carry anyway purely because they see them holding guns on their person...
Because after all carrying an ID is so heavy and such a hassle why should somebody carrying a loaded weapon (as constitutionally allowed) have to carry it with them?
If you are considering carrying a deadly weapon with you, I suggest carry ID.
If you a leisurely bicycle weekend rider sticking to bike paths with no gun, no ID required.
Its just common sense.
Quote: terapined
If you are considering carrying a deadly weapon with you, I suggest carry ID.
If you a leisurely bicycle weekend rider sticking to bike paths with no gun, no ID required.
Its just common sense.
What about somebody carrying reportable amounts of money?
Quote: DRichI haven't seen this mentioned, but Bob Nessarian said on a podcast that he would not take a case if he believed the individual was trying to get backroomed for a lawsuit.
In my mind this is a key to this discussion. I mean Gandler, might not know of Bob Nersesian or his reputation and might find the fact that Mr Nersesian took the case , irrelevant as he said, but those of us, that know Bob and know of his reputation and how he operates, know that he did his homework, looked into the case before accepting it and KNOWS he has a legitimate and solid case. The fact that Bob took this case is anything but irrelevant.
