petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 3102
October 19th, 2014 at 12:27:47 PM permalink
Russia is getting angry over the Wests determination to control the energy/banking sectors of the world.

Russia/Siberia's resources and China's manufacturing ability [BRICS] is putting the West in a position that historically the only solution has been war.

In linked article Serbia is granting tresspass for Gazproms Southstream pipeline, cutting out Ukraine. Just before winter.

http://euobserver.com/foreign/126098

Also, http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-88-is-available-Global-systemic-crisis-2015-The-world-is-defecting-to-the-East_a17007.html

All the power [and gold] is going edit: east to west. west to east.
socks
socks
Joined: Jul 13, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 363
October 19th, 2014 at 1:55:28 PM permalink
When there are no active (physical) frontiers and little innovation, economic growth stops, mercantilism works, and the world is a zero-sum game again (unless it's swings into a negative sum game as non-renewable resources are run through).

I'm a huge fan of Peter Thiel on this topic. He notes that counting government spending, the US has a -6% savings rate, the kind of thing you do when you believe the future will be better, but no one has a definite vision of exactly how the future will be better, "indefinite optimism", which he suspects is fundamentally unstable. Europe is indefinitely pessimistic, while China is definitely pessimistic (they know they will continue copying the developed world, but will get old before they get rich.)

Most people in the US are completely unable to consider these problems. I confronted a number of people on peak oil several years back, and the most popular answer I got was that I had to "have faith in god". Somewhere along the line Franklin's God who helps those who help themselves became a bailout god that fixes things when people fail to plan.
Dicenor33
Dicenor33
Joined: Aug 28, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 624
October 19th, 2014 at 3:58:41 PM permalink
Putin will arm Muslims. 1 billion army. New Hallifat becomes a near reality.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 310
  • Posts: 6775
October 19th, 2014 at 4:10:22 PM permalink
Quote: Dicenor33

Putin will arm Muslims. 1 billion army. New Hallifat becomes a near reality.



WTF is "Hallifat?"
"What, me worry?"
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 3102
October 19th, 2014 at 4:12:50 PM permalink
Quote:

Quote: socks

When there are no active (physical) frontiers and little innovation, economic growth stops, mercantilism works, and the world is a zero-sum game again (unless it's swings into a negative sum game as non-renewable resources are run through).


The corporations are larger than government now. It is taking Russia to kick McDonalds out of the country instead of our government ordering McDanalds to sanction. Bidens son already running the gas company in Ukraine. Government is now a revolving door for the ptb. Continuous extraction as in Matt Taibbi's vampire squid, cannot continue with finite resources. Or can it? See Africa.
Quote:

the US has a -6% savings rate, the kind of thing you do when you believe the future will be better


That capitol that the savings rate represents didn't evaporate without debt being payed off. That isn't happening. The negative rate is people's lives being charged on credit. Same way the west's governments on benefits, an admitted 19 trillion in debt for the USG alone. That money goes somewhere, to the rentier non productive class as they siphon blood out of the populace. Really how many alternatives are there to the boomers finding out their money got John Corzined? It isn't there.
Quote:

China is definitely pessimistic

Not for the 10% that have become obscenely wealthy. Things are looking pretty good as they search the world for places to stash their wealth. Actually the 10% world wide have done well the last 3 decades. There are too many people wanting to use up "their" resources.

Quote:

I confronted a number of people on peak oil

I think we have reached peak empire.
Dicenor33
Dicenor33
Joined: Aug 28, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 624
October 19th, 2014 at 4:13:42 PM permalink
Russia has two choices, either cave in to Western demands( which it probably won't), or sign a pact with Muslims( which it probably will). The entire Europe including Russia goes under Shiria law, the US becomes isolated and all thanks to undesisive policies of our President.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 310
  • Posts: 6775
October 19th, 2014 at 4:23:16 PM permalink
Russia going Muslim?

Hardly.

They fear and dislike Muslims as much as we do.

No, they'll make a pact or two which they'll honor only so long as it suits them.

Lone wolves, those Russkies.
"What, me worry?"
Dicenor33
Dicenor33
Joined: Aug 28, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 624
October 19th, 2014 at 4:30:48 PM permalink
Christian Russia has been a warrant for Western civilization to flourish, and now when the entire West wants to starve Russians to death they will begin to convert and new nuclear empire will emerge. Stupid is stupid does.
socks
socks
Joined: Jul 13, 2011
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 363
October 19th, 2014 at 4:52:39 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

The corporations are larger than government now. ... Government is now a revolving door for the ptb.


I've become increasing reluctant to use "ptb". I see it as a very heterogeneous group. I'm also not as down on the elite as is popular. Peter Thiel, who was Ron Paul's biggest donor, is also on the Bilderberg steering committee. Many libertarians were quick to assume that this was a sign of RP's corruption, but I look at it from the other direction.

I think most of the elite want the world to work and that the problems we're facing are problems of scarcity that have always been with us; problems we have the potential to eliminate by getting the world's population through the demographic transition, but not without more innovation, as I believe if you try to average western populations down to the world's average of <$13k per capita GDP, you get war. I think the elite left make this mistake by taking, as a given, an absolute need to reduce everyone's footprint first while underestimating the likelihood of this leading to a breakdown and war.

Quote: petroglyph


That capitol that the savings rate represents didn't evaporate without debt being payed off. That isn't happening. The negative rate is people's lives being charged on credit. Same way the west's governments on benefits, an admitted 19 trillion in debt for the USG alone. That money goes somewhere, to the rentier non productive class as they siphon blood out of the populace. Really how many alternatives are there to the boomers finding out their money got John Corzined? It isn't there.


There are obviously many dynamics here. Drawing down on savings; avoiding inflation by outsourcing, first to China, and now to poorer countries; productivity enhancements, which are hard to measure/capture in the numbers... I'm hoping we can ship a lot more inflation into the internet as more people get wired up, ever younger, and the older generation dies off. This may not produce as satisfying a life, but maybe it'll avoid war. I say that to say that, in the end, paper (or electronic) dollars don't matter that much. People's actual experience in life matters, and the elite are pretty good at juggling the numbers to make things work as long as the masses are reasonable pacified and not insisting on war.

I'm not particularly optimistic, but I'm not super pessimistic either. Though I do essentially agree w/ the original post, that China and Russia have the correct competitive mindset under current conditions. I expect the US's relative standard of living to fall somewhat if things do hold together, due to an ideologically driven misreading of the strategic landscape.

Quote: petroglyph

Not for the 10% that have become obscenely wealthy. Things are looking pretty good as they search the world for places to stash their wealth. Actually the 10% world wide have done well the last 3 decades. There are too many people wanting to use up "their" resources.


Well, there are a lot of people in China... I'm not sure how much, exactly, to blame on Chinese leadership. The Demographic transition has been talked about since at least the 20's, but was it well enough understood that our system was going to stabilize populations faster? Interestingly, even John Rawls, the original social justice theorist, came back, long after publishing Theory of Justice, and said countries must have border to internalize costs of population growth. I guess I'm around a fair number of people from the fat middle of the bell curve and their inability to reason and plan for the future... not have kids they can't afford... It makes it hard for me to be terribly sympathetic to populations (or subpopulations) that outrun their resources. Should we try to help bootstrap populations into stability, sure, but I'm not expecting people to accept sudden, dramatic, drops in their own standard of living to do so.
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 3102
October 19th, 2014 at 8:30:23 PM permalink
Quote: socks

Quote:

I've become increasing reluctant to use "ptb"

Fair enough. There are certainly layers of wealth. I admire Thiel and most anyone that has earned or built or somehow gained their own status. When I think of the "ptb" I think of those that have so much wealth they aren't mentioned on Forbes list of billionaires. Me knowing that half the world lives on 3 dollars per day probably puts me in the top 10%, so personally I have nothing to complain about in that regard. What I don't really agree with is why the secrecy?

If it wasn't for this unlikely hero we may not know of the Bilderbergs, http://americanfreepress.net/?p=10045 Heck, I think Angelina Jolie is a member, at least of the CFR. If I owned the world I don't know how different it would be. Be it through attrition or other means, there are a lot of people on the planet that are using more energy than they will ever contribute. Cold hard fact but I don't have to like the way it is metted out by front groups like the UN, the IMF, or NGO's.
Quote:

Peter Thiel, who was Ron Paul's biggest donor, is also on the Bilderberg steering committee

Thiel says some great things that need saying. Speaks a lot of truth like questioning student loans. Since biblical times when a new ruler came to be there was a debt jubilee. Bush fixed it so that student debt can't even be bankrupted out of [Thiel]. I didn't agree with RP on every thing, but I did and still do support him. His voting record for the last 25 years is unparalleled. I'm sure in Pauls career from time to time he had to shake hands with the devil more than once. Pat Choate who was Ross Perot's running mate was brilliant on the economy. He wrote "Agents of influence", speaking at the time on who owned the most treasuries. Ron believes in a Jeffersonian approach of non intervention. http://americanfreepress.net/?p=10045

Quote:

I believe if you try to average western populations down to the world's average of <$13k per capita GDP, you get war. I think the elite left make this mistake by taking, as a given, an absolute need to reduce everyone's footprint first while underestimating the likelihood of this leading to a breakdown and war.

To me there is little difference between the left/right. When an election changes who owns the FRB or the ECB than it will matter. Until then war isn't a symptom [if non nuclear] it is a feature. Bush may have been on a carrier deck but he did not land the plane.

I admire the Chinese government, it appears to me that they nationalistically support their country. I believe that is what a government is supposed to do, not what the US 535 have been doing since 1971 and the end of Bretton Woods.

John Rawls? I will see your John Rawls and raise you one Howard Zinn.

I am impressed at how they can juggle so many balls in the air at the same time. That just doesn't happen coincidentally. And most haven't even heard of the Shadow Government.

  • Jump to: