justaguy
justaguy
Joined: May 30, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 2:16:20 AM permalink
post removed by author
nyuhoosier
nyuhoosier
Joined: Feb 16, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 3:46:39 AM permalink
Let me be the first to say, welcome to the forum. This is a great first post -- so great I don't have the time to adequately comment right now. I'm sure this will get a lot of discussion.
Malaru
Malaru
Joined: Mar 22, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 3:53:16 AM permalink
I thought the same thing- I really enjoyed reading it- but not sure what I coudl reply with that would give ample substance to the subject matter.
"Although men flatter themselves with their great actions, they are not so often the result of a great design as of chance." - Francois De La Rochefoucauld
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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May 30th, 2010 at 7:29:01 AM permalink
Quote: justaguy


Dude, I give you props for having the knowledge and discipline to make a consistent profit playing a game designed to offer a disadvantage. But, if you can win like that you don't want to be tracked in a computer so you can get freebies. Be as anonymous as you can and buy your own freebies with our money . I kinda think he was of the mind that the huge line of credit would woo a host into giving him all sorts of free stuff knowing he has a large amount of money available to lose.



Good post, welcome to the forum.

There are two schools of thought about whether card counters should fly above or below the radar. There are pros and cons both ways. Ian Anderson, author of Burning the Tables in Las Vegas, is the best-known advocate of the flying above the radar method. Of course he makes sacrifices in how he plays to avoid the red flags, but believes the comps and longevity at the tables more than makes up for it. However, if your guy was a counter, playing two hands total over four hours does not exactly make you look like a recreational player. So I'm not defending his particular act.

Of the two cruising altitudes, I think flying above the radar is usually preferable for full-time career counters, and under the radar for part-time. Also, presenting a player card in the first place helps to deflect scrutiny in the pit, as most floor supervisors believe as you do, that counters like to play anonymously.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Melman
Melman
Joined: Apr 12, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 7:29:17 AM permalink
Quote: justaguy


Dude, I give you props for having the knowledge and discipline to make a consistent profit playing a game designed to offer a disadvantage. But, if you can win like that you don't want to be tracked in a computer so you can get freebies.



Maybe I'm in a different league from what you have to deal with (my typical trip budget is $500, and I play in Downtown LV, the locals casinos, and Laughlin). I haven't had a losing trip in a long time, but I still get free and reduced rate room offers, and the occasional comped meal. I don't ask for any favors like last-minute rooms, and I don't expect any favors.

I have always wondered how my play is being tracked. Over the last couple of years, I've generally been winning $2xx or $3xx per trip. Maybe at that level, they don't care so much about my play, and assume they'll get it back eventually. And so they leave me on the marketing lists.
gambler
gambler
Joined: Jan 11, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 8:49:44 AM permalink
Welcome to the forum! It is good to have an insider who understands the comp process. I am sure people will have a lot of questions for you. I know I do!
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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May 30th, 2010 at 9:36:44 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

There are two schools of thought about whether card counters should fly above or below the radar.



Seems to me this guy risked nothing with his trial balloon; if he is forced to play anonymously, he can still do it. Unless the system is passing a photo of him around, in which case he is screwed anyway. His trial balloon might help him with some "intel" on this.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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May 30th, 2010 at 10:18:26 AM permalink
Quote: justaguy

I also noticed some odd things like he once played 2x hands of blackjack in 4 hours (casinos deal around 70 hands per hour so 4 hours should have around 280 hands played). .

Did you misread the screen or did someone input the data incorrectly? Perhaps they were noting that ht was placing his wager on two different squares and thus playing two hands?
Two hands over the course of four hours indicates no one was waiting for seats and he must have really been bored or desperately in need of comped booze.
Malaru
Malaru
Joined: Mar 22, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 2:05:42 PM permalink
He uses X's for variables- I understood what he ment. hes saying 20 to 29 hands in those 4 hours. not two.

he used a previous example of this with 1x,xxx meaning the guy won 10 to 19 thousand dollars.


Just figured Id clearify hes refering ot 20ish hands not two.
"Although men flatter themselves with their great actions, they are not so often the result of a great design as of chance." - Francois De La Rochefoucauld
scotty81
scotty81
Joined: Feb 4, 2010
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May 30th, 2010 at 2:39:34 PM permalink
@justaguy,

You seem to be very knowlegable re: Comps & hosts.

I have a few questions you might be able to answer:

1) Does the host really not care if you win or lose? If you are a consistent winner, how does that affect what the host can or can not do?

2) Does the host have the power to influence the offers that are sent out by "the computer"? I've had situations where my host relations were quite strained, yet the computer continued to spit out very good offers.

3) The MGM hosts seem to have a lot of discresionary power. However, the Harrah's hosts seem to be able to do diddly squat. Can you confirm? What, exactly, can a Harrah's host do for a player? Is it possible they can comp charges and have them NOT taken away from your Reward points?

Thanks for posting. Hopefully, you will continue to be a source of great information.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. - Niels Bohr

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