min wage $10.10??
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mcdonald-worker-busted-selling-heroin-happy-meal-boxes-article-1.1596411
1. If you raise the minimum wage to $50/hour, I would think everyone would agree(although maybe I'm wrong!) there would be significant job losses and catastrophic economic effects from all of the business closings.
2. If you raise the minimum wage to $30/hour, it seems likely that most people would also agree there would be a tremendous amount of job losses.
3. If you raise the minimum wage to $20/hour, it also seems likely that most people would agree there would be a large number of job losses and business closings.
4. At $15: I still think we'd get a large number of job losses and business closings, although likely not Armageddon, at least.
So do people think there's some "sweet spot" where a raise won't result in job losses, or that job losses just to be accepted somehow?
Quote: boymimboWhich would have happened anyway... do you think that these technical innovations would not have occurred if minimum wage was reduced to $6/hour?
They might or they might not have. For sure if wage rates were lower then adoption would have been slower as the IRR was not there to justify the purchase. What is for sure is if you hike the cost of employees who are not giving an equal return in productivity the employer will find ways to eliminate them as fast as possible.
Quote: boymimboWhat a load of crap.
Why? Do you believe people are actually trying to raise a family on minimum wage?
Quote: mcallister3200Yes, like $10 per hour. It's not a living wage either. But if a company really can't afford $10 an hour an be profitable, either they need to find a way to be more efficient or they're going in the direction of going out of business anyways sooner or later.
So why $10 and not $15, and why won't it be $15 in 5 years?
In many cases, one way to become more efficient is to reduce employees and put more work on the existing employees' shoulders: to be clear, it would depend on the situation, but it's many times an option.
As most small businesses ultimately "fail", does the process really need to helped along? Is it better to run a pizza joint for 20 years paying minimum wage versus 10 years paying above minimum wage?
As a general comment, i wish all of our law-makers would at one time in their lives have run a small business, even if unsuccessfully.
Quote: mcallister3200Yes, like $10 per hour. It's not a living wage either. But if a company really can't afford $10 an hour an be profitable, either they need to find a way to be more efficient or they're going in the direction of going out of business anyways sooner or later.
But it isn't $10 an hour they are paying. It is closer to $15. Meaning the employee needs to give $100 or so in productivity to be profitable.
Anyone who makes a statement such as you are saying probably has not been on the managing side of a business.
58% of Repulbicans support a minimum wage increase.
Bill O'Reilly also does not agree with you, among a number of other prominent conservatives and economists, many of which use the same argument I do:
(1) Most small business employers (85%) pay more than the minimum wage anyway.
(2) Making more means that they will spend more.
(3) Making more means more people will attempt to work than stay off welfare, reducing welfare spending.
(4) Inflation will only be marginally impacted and will not lead to across the board increases. Show me the bump in inflation when Bush raised the minimum wage in 2009.
(5) Jobs are jobs. Automation will occur no matter if a worker makes $7.25 an hour or $10/hour.
Quote: TheBigPaybakMaybe someone can provide some insight for me on this issue:
1. If you raise the minimum wage to $50/hour, I would think everyone would agree(although maybe I'm wrong!) there would be significant job losses and catastrophic economic effects from all of the business closings.
2. If you raise the minimum wage to $30/hour, it seems likely that most people would also agree there would be a tremendous amount of job losses.
3. If you raise the minimum wage to $20/hour, it also seems likely that most people would agree there would be a large number of job losses and business closings.
4. At $15: I still think we'd get a large number of job losses and business closings, although likely not Armageddon, at least.
So do people think there's some "sweet spot" where a raise won't result in job losses, or that job losses just to be accepted somehow?
A gradual increase to $12 / hour over five years would be something that I think would have no catastrophic impact. Reduce corporate and small business taxes from 35% to 25% and/or provide a tax credit to small employers that exempt the first 100,000 in income. And then pass a law that raises minimum wage with inflation. And then tighten up welfare programs across the board to make it far more worthwhile to work than to sit at home. Pay bonuses to people who learn job skills or who volunteer while collecting welfare. This should have the effect of lowering government costs.
Quote: boymimboSmall business owners would disagree with you
58% of Repulbicans support a minimum wage increase.
Bill O'Reilly also does not agree with you, among a number of other prominent conservatives and economists, many of which use the same argument I do:
(1) Most small business employers (85%) pay more than the minimum wage anyway.
(2) Making more means that they will spend more.
(3) Making more means more people will attempt to work than stay off welfare, reducing welfare spending.
(4) Inflation will only be marginally impacted and will not lead to across the board increases. Show me the bump in inflation when Bush raised the minimum wage in 2009.
(5) Jobs are jobs. Automation will occur no matter if a worker makes $7.25 an hour or $10/hour.
Any small business owner who wants to raise wages is free to do so. Raising minimum punishes them even if they pay more. The guy who pays more has to pay EVEN MORE after an increase.
The welfare argument is old. The way to get people off welfare is to limit welfare. Work is a requirement, not an option.
BTW: Bill O'Reilly is not a conservative. No idea where people get that.
Inflation may not have went up in 2009 but we sure as heck had a collapse in employment numbers.
Is the Democrat base such a population of losers that they find themselves incapable of asking the boss for a raise and need the POTUS to ask for them?
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2014/01/30/provincial-minimum-wage-boosted-to-11-an-hour-effective-june-1/
Quote: boymimboA gradual increase to $12 / hour over five years would be something that I think would have no catastrophic impact. Reduce corporate and small business taxes from 35% to 25% and/or provide a tax credit to small employers that exempt the first 100,000 in income. And then pass a law that raises minimum wage with inflation. And then tighten up welfare programs across the board to make it far more worthwhile to work than to sit at home. Pay bonuses to people who learn job skills or who volunteer while collecting welfare. This should have the effect of lowering government costs.
Reducing corporation taxes would probably do wonders in general. Reducing corporate welfare (of all kinds... less worker subsidies and tax subsidies) would also help. I believe there should be minimum wage legislation, but not as a method to pull people out of poverty, but protection from abuse... while it's often stated 'just go get another job', in some cases, that is not possible. Businesses should not have to rely on the government to cover wage shortfalls to make an incentive for people to work for them... and people should not have to rely on government to cover them if they decide not to work.
There will always be some level of welfare payment for those who cannot work, or are temporarily out of work. Social Insurance is a good thing, in my book. It should not be the case that it's a permanent hammock rather than a temporary safety net.
| Year | CPI-USA | CPI-Canada | CPI-Ontario | BC | Min Wage, BC | Min Wage, Ontario | Change in min wage, ON |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2003 | 1.9 | 1.99% | 2.99% | 1.77% | $8 | $6.85 | 0 |
| 2004 | 3.3 | 2.12 | 1.85 | 2.15 | $8 | $7.15 | 4.38 |
| 2005 | 3.4 | 2.15 | 2.13 | 1.78 | $8 | $7.45 | 4.2 |
| 2006 | 2.5 | 1.64 | 1.08 | 2.07 | $8 | $7.75 | 4.03 |
| 2007 | 4.1 | 2.38 | 2.22 | 1.17 | $8 | $8.00 | 3.23 |
| 2008 | 0.1 | 1.20 | 1.50 | 1.08 | $8 | $8.75 | 9.38 |
| 2009 | 2.7 | 1.26 | 1.11 | 0.53 | $8 | $9.50 | 8.57 |
| 2010 | 1.5 | 2.42 | 3.36 | 2.35 | $8 | $10.25 | 7.89 |
| 2011 | 3 | 2.22 | 2.05 | 1.70 | $9 | $10.25 | 0 |
| 2012 | 1.7 | 0.91 | 0.76 | 0.44 | $10 | $10.25 | 0 |
| 2013 | 1.5 | 1.25 | 1.58 | -0.07 | $10.25 | $10.25 | 0 |
Minimum wage in Ontario increased by 49.6% between 2003 and 2010, while the CPI increased by 14.00% in the same time. US CPI increased 19% in the same period. Canadian CPI increased by 13.9% in that same period. BC's CPI went up by 11.6% even though its minimum wage didn't change.
Therefore you can only attribute 2.4% of CPI change to minimum wage increases of 49.6%.
There is no evidence that minimum wages affect the consumer price index or inflation. By the evidence in Canada, a 50% increase in the minimum wage would only increase CPI by about 2.5% whereas a 10% increase in minimum wage would increase CPI by a negligable 0.5%.
Quote: AZDuffman
However, unions have helped destroy industries from railroads to steel to autos to many others in the USA by unreasonable demands. Heck, I haves seen strikes over a matter of $1 a day, and this was in 1999!
Nonsense, AZ. 30-second sound bite of a 2 hour topic, filled with inaccuracies and assumptions. Not going there today, but filing a protest of these statements here.
Quote: boymimbo
Minimum wage in Ontario increased by 49.6% between 2003 and 2010, while the CPI increased by 14.00% in the same time. US CPI increased 19% in the same period. Canadian CPI increased by 13.9% in that same period. BC's CPI went up by 11.6% even though its minimum wage didn't change.
Therefore you can only attribute 2.4% of CPI change to minimum wage increases of 49.6%.
There is no evidence that minimum wages affect the consumer price index or inflation. By the evidence in Canada, a 50% increase in the minimum wage would only increase CPI by about 2.5% whereas a 10% increase in minimum wage would increase CPI by a negligable 0.5%.
Please, you know better than this. CPI is affected by a number of things besides minimum wage. CPI has gotten to be half a joke anyways as they add and remove items. The Canadian CPI could have risen less as the C$ got stronger.
While the overall CPI effect is hard to measure it is simple to understand that if you increase the minimum wage then prices will increase. Bump the cost of labor 10% and the business has to make it up. There is no way to deny this. When the labor bill at the local McDonald's goes up $1,000 then >$1,000 must go to the top line to make up for it. Why do you not see this?
And the increase of 25% to BC's minimum wage did nothing to the employment numbers.
Of course if you raise the minimum wage prices will increase, but a 50% rise in the minimum wage (in Ontario) did not affect the CPI at all. Inotherwords, raising minimum wage is quite affordable and there is no horror story of sudden price increases or sudden unemployment. The data does not support your argument -- it supports mine.
Labor is but a part of McDonald's costs. If McDonalds has to pay an extra $1,000 to its employees because of minimum wage increases, so does Burger King, Wendy's and all of the other chains. The company has three choices: do nothing and take the hit, raise prices, or fire people. All prices theoretically should raise uniformly. Data shows that McDonald's payroll costs are 25% of revenue. Therefore a 40% hike in wages (from 7.25 to 10.10) would result in prices going up by 10% to make up for the revenue, barring no other changes. Other restaurants use the 30/30/30 model. So, a 40% change in wages would result in menu prices going up 12% to make up the revenue, but that would be applied to all restaurants.
What you will find is that extra $1 - $3 that the worker is making over their old wage doesn't go into their pockets. It gets spent, probably at McDonalds, Walmart, or the movie theatres which are filled with low wage earners. They see increased business and can offset the price increases and layoffs through this increased business and make up their lost revenue.
I just don't see the horror stories as described.
Quote: boymimboActually, the comparison between BC and Ontario is apples to apples using the same CPI data. It shows quite clearly that the increase in minimum wage did nothing to the CPI or to inflation.
And the increase of 25% to BC's minimum wage did nothing to the employment numbers.
Of course if you raise the minimum wage prices will increase, but a 50% rise in the minimum wage (in Ontario) did not affect the CPI at all. Inotherwords, raising minimum wage is quite affordable and there is no horror story of sudden price increases or sudden unemployment. The data does not support your argument -- it supports mine.
Labor is but a part of McDonald's costs. If McDonalds has to pay an extra $1,000 to its employees because of minimum wage increases, so does Burger King, Wendy's and all of the other chains. The company has three choices: do nothing and take the hit, raise prices, or fire people. All prices theoretically should raise uniformly. Data shows that McDonald's payroll costs are 25% of revenue. Therefore a 40% hike in wages (from 7.25 to 10.10) would result in prices going up by 10% to make up for the revenue, barring no other changes. Other restaurants use the 30/30/30 model. So, a 40% change in wages would result in menu prices going up 12% to make up the revenue, but that would be applied to all restaurants.
What you will find is that extra $1 - $3 that the worker is making over their old wage doesn't go into their pockets. It gets spent, probably at McDonalds, Walmart, or the movie theatres which are filled with low wage earners. They see increased business and can offset the price increases and layoffs through this increased business and make up their lost revenue.
I just don't see the horror stories as described.
is it possible that we are worried about the wrong thing. What if companies dont address the increased expense by increasing prices. What if they do what target did, let people go, eliminate vacant positions, and cut benefits. So if more people are unemployed, or have to spend more on benefits, or dont get the raises or bonuses they used to get, or dont get as much vacation or holiday pay they used to get....they have less money to spend.....and supply/demand brings prices down.
Quality of life goes down.
and that cant be measured by inflation statistics.
this is not specific to increased min wage. Anytime a company has reduced profits....the above scenarios can occur. Increasing min wage s just another trigger for the domino effect that negatively affects the quality of life of all workers.
I say ALL workers...because as I have witnessed, working for a retailer who has 5000 stores......when wages go up...they expect more productivity from the workers, they ask people to do more with less....stress goes up for everyone..including the newly increased min wage workers. But other in other depts are asked to share the burdon.....again...quality of life.....no stats tell THAT story
Quote:In 1914, Henry Ford started an industrial revolution by more than doubling wages to $5 a day—a move that helped build the U.S. middle class and the modern economy.
In 1913, to help meet the growing demand for the Model T, Henry Ford turned his attention to improving the manufacturing processes. The business model Ford developed—production on a grand scale, performed by well-paid workers—spread throughout the world and became the manufacturing standard for everything from vacuum sweepers to cars, and more.
[...]
in January 1914, he startled the world by announcing that Ford Motor Company would pay $5 a day to its workers. The pay increase would also be accompanied by a shorter workday (from nine to eight hours). While this rate didn't automatically apply to every worker, it more than doubled the average autoworker's wage.
While Henry's primary objective was to reduce worker attrition—labor turnover from monotonous assembly line work was high—newspapers from all over the world reported the story as an extraordinary gesture of goodwill.
Thousands of Workers Flock to Detroit
After Ford’s announcement, thousands of prospective workers showed up at the Ford Motor Company employment office. People surged toward Detroit from the American South and the nations of Europe. As expected, employee turnover diminished. And, by creating an eight-hour day, Ford could run three shifts instead of two, increasing productivity.
http://corporate.ford.com/news-center/press-releases-detail/677-5-dollar-a-day
Quote: rxwineSome food for thought:
In 1914, Henry Ford started an industrial revolution by more than doubling wages to $5 a day—a move that helped build the U.S. middle class and the modern economy.
In 1913, to help meet the growing demand for the Model T, Henry Ford turned his attention to improving the manufacturing processes. The business model Ford developed—production on a grand scale, performed by well-paid workers—spread throughout the world and became the manufacturing standard for everything from vacuum sweepers to cars, and more.
[...]
in January 1914, he startled the world by announcing that Ford Motor Company would pay $5 a day to its workers. The pay increase would also be accompanied by a shorter workday (from nine to eight hours). While this rate didn't automatically apply to every worker, it more than doubled the average autoworker's wage.
While Henry's primary objective was to reduce worker attrition—labor turnover from monotonous assembly line work was high—newspapers from all over the world reported the story as an extraordinary gesture of goodwill.
Thousands of Workers Flock to Detroit
After Ford’s announcement, thousands of prospective workers showed up at the Ford Motor Company employment office. People surged toward Detroit from the American South and the nations of Europe. As expected, employee turnover diminished. And, by creating an eight-hour day, Ford could run three shifts instead of two, increasing productivity.
How is this food for thought" in regards to raising minimum wage? This is about an individual business owner paying a higher rate to reduce turnover and have his pick of workers, like Costco does today.
BUT WAIT! If you force a minimum wage increase on everyone then it is that much harder for a Costco to do this! Yes, more proof raising the minimum wage is a bad idea!
Quote:How is this food for thought" in regards to raising minimum wage? This is about an individual business owner paying a higher rate to reduce turnover and have his pick of workers, like Costco does today.
BUT WAIT! If you force a minimum wage increase on everyone then it is that much harder for a Costco to do this! Yes, more proof raising the minimum wage is a bad idea!
It's grist for some arguments on both sides. Such as viewing minimum skilled workers as no benefit at higher wage as a reason to treat them as throwaway cogs that can be replaced.
Let me guess...you have absolutely no experience running a business, huh? (No business owner would ever make such a silly statement)Quote: mcallister3200But if a company really can't afford $10 an hour an be profitable...
EDIT:
Ah, looks like AZ already took the words right out of my mouth.Quote: AZDuffmanAnyone who makes a statement such as you are saying probably has not been on the managing side of a business.
+1!
Quote: boymimboSmall business owners would disagree with you
58% of Repulbicans support a minimum wage increase.
That poll was conducted by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research.
This statement sums up who they are: "GQR remains committed to progressive goals, ideas, and leaders."
Quote: rxwineIt's grist for some arguments on both sides. Such as viewing minimum skilled workers as no benefit at higher wage as a reason to treat them as throwaway cogs that can be replaced.
We are all throwaway cogs. If your labor does not produce five times as much for your employer you need to be looking for other employment. Government cannot make people pay above market rates when substitutes are available. Clamshell grills replaced burger flippers almost 20 years ago. What next?
Personally I would prefer mcdonalds go to automated ordering.
Quote: beachbumbabsNonsense, AZ. 30-second sound bite of a 2 hour topic, filled with inaccuracies and assumptions. Not going there today, but filing a protest of these statements here.
Not nonsense. I saw the strikers. Protesting having to pay $20 a month towards their health insurance. And read up on the 1959 usw strike and how it started the decline of the us steel industry. Or UAW and their job banks. Unions hurt companies and industries.
+1Quote: AZDuffmanWe are all throwaway cogs. If your labor does not produce five times as much for your employer you need to be looking for other employment. Government cannot make people pay above market rates when substitutes are available. Clamshell grills replaced burger flippers almost 20 years ago. What next?
Personally, it will put a smile on my face when all these unskilled liberal workers lose their jobs if/when the minimum wage is raised. Kinda like when a liberal loses his/her health insurance because of Obamacare. :)
Also, I predict that if the minimum wage is raised, there will be a huge increase of companies offering unpaid internships. If that does in fact happen, I will smile even more at the libs who sealed their own fate with $0.00/hr jobs. LOL!
Quote: Beethoven9th+1
Personally, it will put a smile on my face when all these unskilled liberal workers lose their jobs if/when the minimum wage is raised. Kinda like when a liberal loses his/her health insurance because of Obamacare. :)
Also, I predict that if the minimum wage is raised, there will be a huge increase of companies offering unpaid internships. If that does in fact happen, I will smile even more at the libs who sealed their own fate with $0.00/hr jobs. LOL!
you are right..this kind of stuff happens all the time.
raise the busboy an extra 3 dollars an hour and see if in some places the wait person all of a sudden has to buss their own tables...or maybe the cashier has to chip in and clean tables too.
if you are a cashier in retail, and were used to having a cashier next to you helping to keep the lines down for 4 hours of your shift......with high wages comes higher exppectations....good luck going it alone....and going home stressed out. Instead of thinking how great your company is now that you are getting 3 dollars more...you are cursing them. Just an example, of course in a place like walmart...instead of 15 cashier working at peak times...maybe there are 12. Everyone else has to do more with less.
Hello self serve registers.....I love them...All i see them around here is at walmart......everyone catches up real rast with this technlogy when they have the financial incentive
And then benefits can be going down....a cut here a cut there...target lost money with the hacking scandal....and cut jobs and cut benefits to part time people.
Nothing is off the table....people will pay a little more for their healthcare, maybe get one less paid holliday, maybe not get as big a raise each year, maybe get reduced paid sick days, maybe not be able to go full time because there is a new freeze on adding full time workers,....all this will happen somewhere in bits and pieces.
Someone has to pay for it. The govt is deep in dept...they are not gonna pay for it with tax credits or other goodies.
Its funny how state and federal govt have no concern about having teachers get better wages in order to attract better people to that field.,,,but they are worried that the guy doing fires at mcdonalds gets his due.
Here is a good example of conservative fantasy vs. reality. Costco is already paying their cashiers more than $10.10 per hour and none of the above quoted effects are happening there. Costco has a great relationship with its employees. Walmart, not so much. When you compare the two stocks price performance over the last five years Costco has performed far better than Walmart indicating that the investors believe that Costco has to better business model.Quote: LarrySif you are a cashier in retail, and were used to having a cashier next to you helping to keep the lines down for 4 hours of your shift......with high wages comes higher exppectations....good luck going it alone....and going home stressed out. Instead of thinking how great your company is now that you are getting 3 dollars more...you are cursing them. Just an example, of course in a place like walmart...instead of 15 cashier working at peak times...maybe there are 12. Everyone else has to do more with less.
Quote: s2dbakerHere is a good example of conservative fantasy vs. reality. Costco is already paying their cashiers more than $10.10 per hour and none of the above quoted effects are happening there. Costco has a great relationship with its employees. Walmart, not so much. When you compare the two stocks price performance over the last five years Costco has performed far better than Walmart indicating that the investors believe that Costco has to better business model.
Good for Costco, people are free to shop there if they like it better. Though I am not going to shop at a place that charges me to eve walk inside the door.
However, you miss the point. Conservatives will support Costco because they are doing this as a business decision. There is nothing that says conservatives say they want to pay people as little as possible. They say to let the market decide. Costco is proof the market works. They pay more and get to choose who they want to hire. WMT chooses to pay less for less of a labor cost line item. Everybody wins.
Quote: mcallister3200I really don't understand why people feel the need to classify themselves or others as conservatives or liberal. It is possible to be conservative on some issues and liberal on others.
It is possible but rare. Take gun control, gay marriage, and global warming. They have zero relation to each other. Yet if you took a room of 100 people and told them to choose a side on each one I would wager 75% of the people would end up in the same grouping of people for all three. And it is not just those three but nearly all of them.
The thing I find is the people the furthest to either end are the most informed about most issues. I'm not talking about the "I'm going to vote for Obama because it is the cool thing to do" crowd of 2008. I'm talking about folks like myself and a few others here I need not name who believe what we believe and I think we all feel, "label me if you want, I believe what I believe and don't care who thinks what."
These are the people who know more about The Supremes than they do about "American Idol," can tell you how a bill becomes a law even without the song, and would rather have dinner with Hillary or Sarah than Kim Kardashian.
Too many people who say they are "moderates" however seem to wait until halftime before they decide who to root for; get their info on the candidates from "People" Magazine, and just like the popular culture in the USA.
So yes, it is possible to be left on some things and right on others, but the USA has possibly not seen this kind of neatly polarization in generations.
Quote: s2dbakerHere is a good example of conservative fantasy vs. reality. Costco is already paying their cashiers more than $10.10 per hour and none of the above quoted effects are happening there. Costco has a great relationship with its employees. Walmart, not so much. When you compare the two stocks price performance over the last five years Costco has performed far better than Walmart indicating that the investors believe that Costco has to better business model.
your kidding me
dont you know costco charges people for the priviledge of shopping there?
dont you know that costco cashiers need to do alot of heavy lifting because of the large sizes....the actual physical work they do as cashiers doesnt compare to cashiers at walmart.
dont you know that if you want to buy items at costco you have to buy super larger sizes. Therefore even though the cashier only may have to scan 10 tiems...it could easily come to 250 dollars.
so if the average cashier rings 10 items at costco for 250.00...and does more heavy lifting.......and the cashier at walmart rings 20 items for 69 dollars......with very little physical labor......its seems to me that the costco cashier warrents more money.
It seems to me that the costco cashier is generating more money for their company, and working a more physical shift.
oh yeah.....and walmart doesnt charge people a yearly fee TO WALK IN THE DOOR.
This should be goodQuote: LarrySyour kidding me
I should know because I pay $55 each year for that privilege. You know who else charges a membership fee? Sam's Club. Sam's Club is a division of Walmart.Quote: LarrySdont you know costco charges people for the priviledge of shopping there?
You obviously don't shop at Costco. I do and the cashiers don't do much of any lifting, more like sliding across a scanner. For the heavier stuff, they have a scanning gun which they bring to the heavy item which remains in the cart. I don't know it this is how things work at Sam's Club but I would imagine it's the same but I won't be so pretentious as to state something that is a complete guess as a fact. That would make me sound ignorant.Quote: LarrySdont you know that costco cashiers need to do alot of heavy lifting because of the large sizes....the actual physical work they do as cashiers doesnt compare to cashiers at walmart.
Again, you haven't been to Costco. I recommend a trip. It would be very enlightening for you. They do have pallets of items but the pallets are conveniently opened and unpacked onto shelves where you can then place the single item into your shopping cart. It's true that you can buy in bulk if you would like but only people with large families seem to do that. Most of us Costco shoppers buy pretty average sized stuff there.Quote: LarrySdont you know that if you want to buy items at costco you have to buy super larger sizes. Therefore even though the cashier only may have to scan 10 tiems...it could easily come to 250 dollars.
Seems logical but that's not what happens in the real world (or Sam's Club).Quote: LarrySso if the average cashier rings 10 items at costco for 250.00...and does more heavy lifting.......and the cashier at walmart rings 20 items for 69 dollars......with very little physical labor......its seems to me that the costco cashier warrents more money.
It seems like it because you haven't actually been to a Costco.Quote: LarrySIt seems to me that the costco cashier is generating more money for their company, and working a more physical shift.
See Sam's Club. The Costco model must be working well if Walmart feels that it has to copy it. Too bad that Walmart sucks at it.Quote: LarrySoh yeah.....and walmart doesnt charge people a yearly fee TO WALK IN THE DOOR.
Quote: s2dbakerThe Costco model must be working well if Walmart feels that it has to copy it. Too bad that Walmart sucks at it.
Ok, so maybe Costco is doing something right where Sams Club is doing something wrong. And maybe one of those things is that Costco is paying the employees more. So Costco grows, Sams Club lays off. Why the need for the government to get involved and raise the minimum wage? Seems the marketplace decided without the need for the increase in minimum wage.
For one thing, the government is involved already because there is currently a minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage will help get the working poor off of government assistance among many other benefits to the individuals and communities in which they live.Quote: bwWhy the need for the government to get involved and raise the minimum wage? Seems the marketplace decided without the need for the increase in minimum wage.
Quote: s2dbakerRaising the minimum wage will help get the working poor off of government assistance among many other benefits to the individuals and communities in which they live.
Not if they lose their jobs. Duh!
(1) Increasing minimum wage reduces jobs.
(2) Increasing minimum wage increases inflation.
(3) The government should get rid of minimum wage and let the market decide what to pay.
(1) and (2) are shown to be marginally true, in that the effects in raising minimum wage is very small on inflation and on employment. A gradual increase in minimum wage would result in a minimal impact on the economy. They did it in Ontario, raising minimum wage by 50% over 6 years and there was no effect to the general economy. They raised minimum wage by 25% in BC and unemployment went DOWN. Studies generally agree with this finding, though you will find studies on both sides of the extremes that state raising minimum wage is very hard on the economy and unemployment, while others state that the growth in the economy from spending results in job growth.
(3) Government already tells employers what the minimum is.
But keep on arguing...
Quote: AZDuffman
The thing I find is the people the furthest to either end are the most informed about most issues. I'm not talking about the "I'm going to vote for Obama because it is the cool thing to do" crowd of 2008. I'm talking about folks like myself and a few others here I need not name who believe what we believe and I think we all feel, "label me if you want, I believe what I believe and don't care who thinks what."
Wow. Interesting. I believe that the extremist Islamic right has the exact same belief. According to you they are apparently the most informed. Unbelievable....
Quote: steeldcoWow. Interesting. I believe that the extremist Islamic right has the exact same belief. According to you they are apparently the most informed. Unbelievable....
I would also note that they've raised minimum wage in more than a dozen states to above the federal mandate and there was no effect.
So this is a huffaballoo about nothing. Raise minimum wage, get some more people off welfare and food stamps and enable more Americans to enter the middle class where they will spend!
Quote: boymimboI would also note that they've raised minimum wage in more than a dozen states to above the federal mandate and there was no effect.
So this is a huffaballoo about nothing. Raise minimum wage, get some more people off welfare and food stamps and enable more Americans to enter the middle class where they will spend!
boymimbo, I was just calling out someone for making a really dumb comment. I'm sure, as he has recently done, he'll come to say that he didn't mean to say what he said.....just unfriggin' believable.
Also, in this case, I happen to believe that taking the minimum wage up at anything but a slow paced acceleration is not something that I support. I'm not for it.
Please refrain from stating facts in this thread. On behalf of Russ Limbaugh and his many admirers.
Quote: boymimboI would also note that they've raised minimum wage in more than a dozen states to above the federal mandate and there was no effect.
So this is a huffaballoo about nothing. Raise minimum wage, get some more people off welfare and food stamps and enable more Americans to enter the middle class where they will spend!
I don't get it, how does raising the minimum wage "allow people to enter the middle class?" Won't they still be at the bottom?
And I still do not understand why you feel work should be "optional" to people on welfare. Just limit welfare times and you get the same effects without punishing people.
Quote: s2dbakerThis should be goodI should know because I pay $55 each year for that privilege. You know who else charges a membership fee? Sam's Club. Sam's Club is a division of Walmart.You obviously don't shop at Costco. I do and the cashiers don't do much of any lifting, more like sliding across a scanner. For the heavier stuff, they have a scanning gun which they bring to the heavy item which remains in the cart. I don't know it this is how things work at Sam's Club but I would imagine it's the same but I won't be so pretentious as to state something that is a complete guess as a fact. That would make me sound ignorant.Again, you haven't been to Costco. I recommend a trip. It would be very enlightening for you. They do have pallets of items but the pallets are conveniently opened and unpacked onto shelves where you can then place the single item into your shopping cart. It's true that you can buy in bulk if you would like but only people with large families seem to do that. Most of us Costco shoppers buy pretty average sized stuff there.Seems logical but that's not what happens in the real world (or Sam's Club).It seems like it because you haven't actually been to a Costco.See Sam's Club. The Costco model must be working well if Walmart feels that it has to copy it. Too bad that Walmart sucks at it.
you are fixated on an out lyer like sams club. Sams club makes up a tiny percent of retail.
You obviously havent beent to Costrco, Because you cant even buy a single loaf of bread. You bouy 10 cans of tuna at a time, 40 rolls of toilet paper at a time, no single bottle of soda, no single can of soup. Where do you go where pallets are open. Whenever I go to costco, the cashoer is lifting, and moving large heavy items in my wagon or on my flatbed in order to find the bar code. Bending over a flatbed and unstacking a bunch of heavy items to get the scanner to read them is more physical work than a walmart worker does all day. Alot more lifting, alot more bending....even "sliding" heavy items over an 8 hours shift is physical labor.
the average liquid laudrey detergant is one and a half gallons. Pepsi cans are36 at a time,.paper towels are24 or 30 at a time, soups..a dozen at a time....no yopu cannot open the packkages and pay for less. Over an 8 hour shift handling , lifting, sliding these items is physical work. Often times in a loaded cart they have to pull large items out and replace them so everything fits, especially if there are a bunch of smaller items like 10 cans of tuna, 2 extralarge bottle of ketsup hooked together, a vat of mayonaise....cumulatively are heavy when placed in an empty box..and then that box is lifted into the wagon, or placed underneath the wagon.
You minimize the work that these cashiers do, Sliding, lifting, boxing and lifting extra large size canned items,,,,,ALL ARE TAXING.
So they deserve more, money.I dont know the pay scale for Sams club. If that single entity payssignificantly less than costco...then thats just one small group of stores in the grand scheme of things that is willing to get inferior staff in exchange for inferior wages. That is always an option of any employer. Offer inferior wages, and receive an inferior pool of workers. This is the perogative of any enployer. In N OUT vs mcdonalds is the same. Onr hamburger chain chooses to pay more and expect more from the workers....and the other pays less and gets a revolving door of less qualified staff. They are bothsuccessful companies with different philosophies.
You obviously didn't read my post. Or if you did, you failed to comprehend it. I actually really do shop at Costco. The one that I shop at in Commack, NY and also the one in Farmingdale, NY that I sometimes go to have bakeries in them. They do not sell loaves of bread by the dozen (unless you want to buy a dozen). Tell you what super-genius, I'm going to Costco tomorrow. I'll post some pictures and maybe I'll teach you something but I doubt it.Quote: LarrySYou obviously havent beent to Costrco..
If you do you will be the first. Expect Peyton Manning to be the second one on Sunday.
Quote: LarrySQuote: s2dbakerThis should be goodI should know because I pay $55 each year for that privilege. You know who else charges a membership fee? Sam's Club. Sam's Club is a division of Walmart.You obviously don't shop at Costco. I do and the cashiers don't do much of any lifting, more like sliding across a scanner. For the heavier stuff, they have a scanning gun which they bring to the heavy item which remains in the cart. I don't know it this is how things work at Sam's Club but I would imagine it's the same but I won't be so pretentious as to state something that is a complete guess as a fact. That would make me sound ignorant.Again, you haven't been to Costco. I recommend a trip. It would be very enlightening for you. They do have pallets of items but the pallets are conveniently opened and unpacked onto shelves where you can then place the single item into your shopping cart. It's true that you can buy in bulk if you would like but only people with large families seem to do that. Most of us Costco shoppers buy pretty average sized stuff there.Seems logical but that's not what happens in the real world (or Sam's Club).It seems like it because you haven't actually been to a Costco.See Sam's Club. The Costco model must be working well if Walmart feels that it has to copy it. Too bad that Walmart sucks at it.
you are fixated on an out lyer like sams club. Sams club makes up a tiny percent of retail.
You obviously havent beent to Costrco, Because you cant even buy a single loaf of bread. You bouy 10 cans of tuna at a time, 40 rolls of toilet paper at a time, no single bottle of soda, no single can of soup. Where do you go where pallets are open. Whenever I go to costco, the cashoer is lifting, and moving large heavy items in my wagon or on my flatbed in order to find the bar code. Bending over a flatbed and unstacking a bunch of heavy items to get the scanner to read them is more physical work than a walmart worker does all day. Alot more lifting, alot more bending....even "sliding" heavy items over an 8 hours shift is physical labor.
the average liquid laudrey detergant is one and a half gallons. Pepsi cans are36 at a time,.paper towels are24 or 30 at a time, soups..a dozen at a time....no yopu cannot open the packkages and pay for less. Over an 8 hour shift handling , lifting, sliding these items is physical work. Often times in a loaded cart they have to pull large items out and replace them so everything fits, especially if there are a bunch of smaller items like 10 cans of tuna, 2 extralarge bottle of ketsup hooked together, a vat of mayonaise....cumulatively are heavy when placed in an empty box..and then that box is lifted into the wagon, or placed underneath the wagon.
You minimize the work that these cashiers do, Sliding, lifting, boxing and lifting extra large size canned items,,,,,ALL ARE TAXING.
So they deserve more, money.I dont know the pay scale for Sams club. If that single entity payssignificantly less than costco...then thats just one small group of stores in the grand scheme of things that is willing to get inferior staff in exchange for inferior wages. That is always an option of any employer. Offer inferior wages, and receive an inferior pool of workers. This is the perogative of any enployer. In N OUT vs mcdonalds is the same. Onr hamburger chain chooses to pay more and expect more from the workers....and the other pays less and gets a revolving door of less qualified staff. They are bothsuccessful companies with different philosophies.
So you're another one who just lies because it suits your side of the argument? Just go to the Costco website.
I should have thought of that. I don't have to post pix but I will anyway.Quote: steeldcoSo you're another one who just lies because it suits your side of the argument? Just go to the Costco website.
Quote: s2dbakerTell you what super-genius, I'm going to Costco tomorrow. I'll post some pictures and maybe I'll teach you something but I doubt it.
Glad to see I am not the only one S2 talks to this way.
I thing the LarryS was making a joke about bread by the dozen.
Quote: s2dbakerYou obviously didn't read my post. Or if you did, you failed to comprehend it. I actually really do shop at Costco. The one that I shop at in Commack, NY and also the one in Farmingdale, NY that I sometimes go to have bakeries in them. They do not sell loaves of bread by the dozen (unless you want to buy a dozen). Tell you what super-genius, I'm going to Costco tomorrow. I'll post some pictures and maybe I'll teach you something but I doubt it.
i never said you have to buy a dozen loaves of bread. I said You cany buy one loaf at a time.
You cant even buy one bag of their bakery bagels....the price includes 2 bags and they will not cut the price if u want one bag.
You said you can open the packages and take smaller quantities.
Yeah just try.be trown out.
you want 2 cans of soup...let the cashier at walmart ring it...you want a dozen cans of soup...its prepacked and ready for your to purchase.
you want a 6 pack of pepsi....go to walmart.....you want a 36 pack....thata all you cang et at costco
want small size bottles of water...sure no broblem....buy 70 of them at a time.....
want tuna? sure 8 cans at a time
wonder bread.....2 loaves........and dont try to break the package like u say
want some jellie beans....u need to buy 4 lbs at a time
want mayonaise///2 quarts at a time
and then the cashier puts the 4 lbs of jellie beans, 8 cans of tuna, 2 loaves of bread, and vat of mayonaise into an empty box and lifts it into your wagon, or lifts it an puts it under you wagon or on the flatbed.
Again...different skill set than the average cashier
you brought costco up as a place that pays cashiers more....and the above is the reason...it is their business model to pay more for more productivity, and retain workers
Other places rather have less competant people for less money with arevolving door retention.
Both models seem to work fine. Where else would the lesser qualified workers get jobs.There are a hell of a lot of people that costco feels free to turn away based on their high expectations and the wages provided.
Those people who get turned away can go to sams club and get a job .
Its great that every single place does not have the same standards and same wages.
personally I dont care if you have the ability to walk into a costco and take pictures.
10 loaves of bread...that hillarious....what an argument..
you can live in costco for all I care....just open your eyes sometime and see reality
