Did you send juiciejennie a PM?
Poll
 | 4 votes (6.77%) | ||
| | 16 votes (27.11%) | ||
| | 2 votes (3.38%) | ||
| | 1 vote (1.69%) | ||
| | 16 votes (27.11%) | ||
| | 3 votes (5.08%) | ||
| | 7 votes (11.86%) | ||
| | 10 votes (16.94%) |
59 members have voted
Quote: aceofspadesDoes that mean there is a different standard for men and women on WoV?
If your participation rate is 98% in favor of one gender, you better consider holding the minority participants to a different standard. IMO.
Quote: WizardNo. But I think there is a different standard in life.
Gloria Steinem wishes this were untrue.
Quote: aceofspadesGloria Steinem wishes this were untrue.
I don't care.
Quote: WizardI don't care.
Was that said angrily…? YIKES!
:-(
Let's talk about the concept of a beauty contest, in general, which is specifically designed to physically objectify women:
Perhaps the very concept of a beauty contest (by public vote) is fundamentally flawed as it seeks to cause people to arrive at a most physically attractive woman thereby insulting all other women (indirectly) by implying that they are not as attractive as the first.
If we accept that the very purpose of a beauty contest is to objectify women in the first place, and then further accept that, by willful, intentional and deliberate entry into said contest the women are willing to be objectified and compared to other women, then it becomes difficult to arrive at any conclusion other than that it is not wrong to compare one entrant to any other entrant in any context. The opposite conclusion, and put in more direct terms, might result in a conversation such as:
Entrant: Please vote for me in this contest in which I am being objectively compared to other entrants on the basis of physical attractiveness alone.
Respondent: I would vote for you, however, there are other entrants who I consider to be more attractive.
Entrant: How dare you compare me to other women!!!
That is not what happened here, and again, I tend to agree with Wizard only to the extent that nobody from this site should have voted for anyone with exception to JuicieJennie unless they might have otherwise reasonably discovered the contest in the first place. That having been said, I still see nothing wrong with saying who my vote would have been for had I been voting on looks alone.
It would be different if someone were to post a picture asking, "Do you think I'm pretty," and someone were to reply, "Yes, but the girl in the background on the left is prettier than you are."
That's different, the poster of the picture is not asking to be compared to the girl on the left. In a beauty contest, an individual is specifically asking, and in this case, paying $25 to be compared to the other entrants. Beauty contests exist for no other reason. Well, one other reason, a crappy Sandra Bollock film, but that doesn't really apply, here.
People are competing. There can only be one winner. At some point in life you have to accept that you are not the best in the world at something, even if it's something that you are very good at and you pride yourself in. There's nothing insulting there.
Having said that, I still voted for JJ. She was the most attractive participant by far, IMO. The Russian girl was also very attractive but IMO JJ is the clear winner.
This is becoming a society wherein nobody is allowed to lose and everyone gets a trophy...if nobody loses, then nobody wins...without winners and losers, society loses its competitive edge...stagnation occurs and progress is halted
When someone (aka Varmenti, egalite, GR8player, Ahigh, etc.) comes on with a gambling system or method of winning, veiled insults, debate, and putdowns are fine.
When someone (aka FrGamble) comes on and discusses the glory of God, he opens himself up to one-sided attacks on his religious beliefs which he is left alone to defending.
When someone (aka BoyMimbo, LarryS, SanchoPlaza, s2dbaker, AZ, Beethoven) comes on with a political statement, veiled insults, debate, and putdowns are fine (and these are usually one sided).
When an attractive female posts provocative pictures of herself, solicits entries in a facebook contest, and puts herself in the middle of a sexual encounter, comments and debate are off the table, as long as she sticks around?
So because JJ happens to be young and attractive, we're supposed to be nice? To what end? Why can't we treat her the same way we would treat any other member simply because she's good looking? How different some of us were until we saw the pictures...
JJ, keep posting, I won't bother you anymore. I'm sorry if I caused you distress.
Members here specifically requested that she post photos because they didn't think she was real. I believe the sexual encounter was also in response to a member.Quote: boymimboWhen an attractive female posts provocative pictures of herself, solicits entries in a facebook contest, and puts herself in the middle of a sexual encounter, comments and debate are off the table, as long as she sticks around?
I can't speak for the others, but personally I was talking only about the contest.
Quote: HotBlondeI posted a picture a while back with "I <3 WoV" but how I don't remember where I posted it. I'm sure my pic wasn't as sexy as JJ's.
I posted a pic about a year ago of me holding a similar sign as you asked JJ to hold up. So I posted today to you guys that I posted that, and as a compliment to JJ I said "I'm sure my pic wasn't as sexy" as hers. That wasn't an invitation for you guys to take that and say things like
Quote: RogerKintYeeeeah, probably not.
That is classless and low. Guess what? JJ is a model, and yes she is beautiful. But not all women look like her, and in fact most don't. This isn't a competition. All you guys look for is women you want to fuck and to be honest with you most of her type of women wouldn't even want your sorry asses in the first place. So for you to take my compliment to her and turn it around as an insult to me is not only rude but shows just how reprehensible, as the Wizard put it, you guys are. Shame on you for trying to shame a woman! I posted a nice picture a while back in honor of my friend Michael and his website and you used my post of that as a way to try and degrade me. **** you and shame on you.
Totally agree with you. lol!Quote: HotBlonde...and to be honest with you most of her type of women wouldn't even want your sorry asses in the first place.
I hope you reconsider about leaving though. I want to see pics of you and JJ at the blackjack tables! :)
Quote: HotBlonde
I posted a pic about a year ago of me holding a similar sign as you asked JJ to hold up. So I posted today to you guys that I posted that, and as a compliment to JJ I said "I'm sure my pic wasn't as sexy" as hers. That wasn't an invitation for you guys to take that and say things like...
Quote: RogerKintYeeeeah, probably not.
I'm sorry, HotBlonde, I kind of missed that with everything else going on in the thread and have been under the impression we've been talking about comparing the beauty of people in a beauty contest this entire time. I personally think RogerKint's comment amounts to Personal Insult, is unwarranted, and have suggested that a ban may be in order for the comment.
I've been having totally different conversations than the conversations people have been trying to have with me all night. I partially excuse my lack of reading comprehension because I've been ill, though, and have slept a total of ten hours in the last three days.
Quote: djatcI wish I understood women. I don't understand what happened here and I read every post
Seriously? PM me and I'll explain it to you.
Quote: djatcI wish I understood women. I don't understand what happened here and I read every post
RogerKint directed a comment to HotBlonde that I felt was inappropriate, Wizard agreed and I believe was speaking mainly to that comment. I thought Wizard was commenting exclusively about people remarking as to the attractiveness of contestants other than JuicieJennie in the Miss Mint competition, but I think he was mainly angry as to RogerKint's comment which HotBlonde did exactly nothing to warrant.
I didn't understand what happened in this thread, either, until I saw HotBlonde's post and then went back and re-read the thread. Actually, I think I might have seen, "Yeeeah...probably not," and assumed it was a harmless post because it looks that way on the surface if you don't read who he quoted or what HotBlonde (the person he quoted) said. If I am just skimming a thread to make sure there are no Rules violations, I very rarely take the time to read stuff in quote boxes, so it seemed like an innocuous post.
When HotBlonde posted most recently, I couldn't figure out why she was so upset, so I read the last few pages of the thread again.
Quote: WizardEven though it was a total set up, I still say a gentleman never insults a woman. If you think JJ's picture is better then you just keep your mouth shut, or lie. I know my opinion is not shared by many, but that's what it is.
With all due respect, I disagree that it was a set-up or that there was anything intentional about it at all. I believe HotBlonde was making a statement intended to do nothing more or less than compliment JuicieJennie.
It's actually refreshing to see one woman compliment another on her beauty, kudos, HotBlonde!
Quote: Mission146The clearly sarcastic form of the agreement makes it an evident insult, in my opinion.
I agree. Perhaps when HB said Jennie's picture was better than hers, those who agreed could've just kept that to themselves.
I understand and agree with the Wizards view on respecting females for the most part, however this is the internet and I would bet Roger is a gentleman under normal real life situations. So in this particular situation a ban just dose not seam right. A slight double standard might be fine, but this is a BIG double standard.
I think if HB wanted him to be banned for this that would be absolutely childish.
I to think the suspension only came after the treat of HB leaving. This may seem like favoritism. HB seemed to be upset with the attention JJ has been getting from the beginning and I have to think Rogers comment was not what lead to her wanting to leave. I think she even commented on something regarding the Wizard finding a new favorite/hottie or something like that.
Quote: AxelWolfBanning Roger for this would be absolutely absurd. People have said much worst to JJ. So whats the deal? Roger is taking one for the team? It's not like Roger is always skirting around the rules causing trouble like some people.
I understand and agree with the Wizards view on respecting females for the most part, however this is the internet and I would bet Roger is a gentleman under normal real life situations. So in this particular situation a ban just dose not seam right. A slight double standard might be fine, but this is a BIG double standard.
I think if HB wanted him to be banned for this that would be absolutely childish.
I to think the suspension only came after the treat of HB leaving. This may seem like favoritism. HB seemed to be upset with the attention JJ has been getting from the beginning and I have to think Rogers comment was not what lead to her wanting to leave. I think she even commented on something regarding the Wizard finding a new favorite/hottie or something like that.
A lot worse has been said about many others, however this thread has made me realize that ones looks/appearance (especially that of a woman), is on a level of sensitivity all it's own when it comes to what's allowable. We've seen people get bashed and ridiculed in this forum for proposing bad casino games, asking about sports betting systems, posting their religious and political stances, etc... And to a degree it's mostly accepted. But say one woman looks better than another, and you've crossed the line. And it's not a male/female thing at all.. Because I'm sure Roger could've pointed out that Jennie is better than HB at any other facet of life and it would've been fine... But he made it an attractiveness comparison...he went there.
Quote: michael99000A lot worse has been said about many others, however this thread has made me realize that ones looks/appearance (especially that of a woman), is on a level of sensitivity all it's own when it comes to what's allowable. We've seen people get bashed and ridiculed in this forum for proposing bad casino games, asking about sports betting systems, posting their religious and political stances, etc... And to a degree it's mostly accepted. But say one woman looks better than another, and you've crossed the line. And it's not a male/female thing at all.. Because I'm sure Roger could've pointed out that Jennie is better than HB at any other facet of life and it would've been fine... But he made it an attractiveness comparison...he went there.
But was the first stone not cast from a woman? It's a fine line for double standards. At my work because of the whole sexual harassment deal at Lackland we are not allowed to say anything about male/female differences. Our commander has gotten rid of any "men's lifestyle" magazines, talked to one of our airmen for making a comment about an actress when we were watching TV in the break room, when all he said was that she was hot. One of my supervisors got into a fit because I said a joke in a sexual nature to a female airman. This overreaction makes for a work environment where we must tippy toe around everyone, and nobody can just "relax".
Quote: AxelWolfHB seemed to be upset with the attention JJ has been getting from the beginning and I have to think Rogers comment was not what lead to her wanting to leave. I think she even commented on something regarding the Wizard finding a new favorite/hottie or something like that.
I have abstained from commenting in this thread since the initial posting I did in hopes of proving the existence of JJ, but I have read it in its entirety and I do believe this statement to be very true. Especially evident in the starting of the "I just joined..." thread(JJ original thread title "hi there! just joined!!~"), which I believe was just an attempt at seeking attention.
The reaction of both JJ and HB were inevitable, first with the unwarranted comments of the bulk of male posters, and all the attention that was given to JJ. HB was the main "woman" of the forum(no offense babs or any other female posters, she was more about the attention and less about the gaming aspects, but this is just my subjective opinion from what I have read) until JJ came along and stole some thunder. Humans like attention, male or female, and when someone garners attention from another, the other wants it back. We all like that warm feeling it gives us to have others pay attention to us. That being said, there is still an issue of many posts that came across as back handed and insinuating of male posters, some in obvious jest, others precariously perched over the edge of the line.
You cannot ban one commenter over another unless you ban them all, and as for HB's compliment towards JJ and it opening a window for others to agree, should not be warranting of a ban. You say those that commented could have kept it to themselves, or sent such information in a PM. The same could be said for HB. Mission stated that the object of a beauty contest is to judge women objectively on their beauty, HB's comment could be construed as such in that she was comparing JJ and her beauty against one another. A simple compliment towards JJ would have sufficed that did not involve a comparison.
Quote: RogerKintYeeeeah, probably not.
I'm so sorry you were suspended over this nonsense, Roger. You are an excellent contributor to this site. To show my support for you, I will not post until your return. Back to the drooling board, everyone.
Quote: djatcBut was the first stone not cast from a woman? It's a fine line for double standards. At my work because of the whole sexual harassment deal at Lackland we are not allowed to say anything about male/female differences. Our commander has gotten rid of any "men's lifestyle" magazines, talked to one of our airmen for making a comment about an actress when we were watching TV in the break room, when all he said was that she was hot. One of my supervisors got into a fit because I said a joke in a sexual nature to a female airman. This overreaction makes for a work environment where we must tippy toe around everyone, and nobody can just "relax".
It's very difficult to decipher just when the first stone was cast..
It's ok for HB to compliment JJ by saying ... "Jennies picture looks better than mine."
however, It's not ok for anyone else to pay that exact same compliment to JJ, because it's offensive to HB.
but wait a second.. I don't think anyone in the forum ever would've even contrived the idea of comparing the two pictures, had HB not done it first. Obviously Jennie is a model, she's paid to look good, and she presumably got into modeling because she looked good even before ever getting paid for it. I don't know HB personally but I'm sure she's better than JJ at many other things.. And I might also add that HB is an attractive woman as well.
I think the phrasing of Rogers opinion is what got him banned. Mission felt it was too much sarcasm involved, unessecary sarcasm. I'd even call it ..rubbing it in
Quote: michael99000A lot worse has been said about many others, however this thread has made me realize that ones looks/appearance (especially that of a woman), is on a level of sensitivity all it's own when it comes to what's allowable. We've seen people get bashed and ridiculed in this forum for proposing bad casino games, asking about sports betting systems, posting their religious and political stances, etc... And to a degree it's mostly accepted. But say one woman looks better than another, and you've crossed the line. And it's not a male/female thing at all.. Because I'm sure Roger could've pointed out that Jennie is better than HB at any other facet of life and it would've been fine... But he made it an attractiveness comparison...he went there.
Worst things have been said to JJ. lines were crossed, she is a female. Why no bans? Shall I go find the comments made to JJ?
Even HB was practically calling JJ a liar, even after JJ had to prove she was real. HB, still said negative things regarding the situation.
I think HB was trying to get people to feel sorry for her, and come to her defense. Kind of when a girl says something like, "I look ugly today", meanwhile fishing for compliments. Roger just didn't fall for it and agreed with her.
Quote: AxelWolfWorst things have been said to JJ. lines were crossed, she is a female. Why no bans? Shall I go find the comments made to JJ?
Even HB was practically calling JJ a liar, even after JJ had to prove she was real. HB, still said negative things regarding the situation.
I think HB was trying to get people to feel sorry for her, and come to her defense. Kind of when a girl says something like, "I look ugly today", meanwhile fishing for compliments. Roger just didn't fall for it and agreed with her.
You're absolutely right.. There were several awful things said to JJ throughout this thread.
She was called a liar, an attention whore, a fake, a gold digger, and when she asked for a small favor in regards to the contest she's in. She was told not only are we not voting for you, but we will take it a step further and point out whose better than you...AND vote for them instead. I felt that was a slap in her face...
Yet, no bans.
Quote: Mission146In terms of comparisons, it's a beauty context, so I would maintain that comparing other girls in the contest to her (when she brought up the contest) isn't rude
Quote: michael99000
She was called a liar, an attention whore, a fake, a gold digger, and when she asked for a small favor in regards to the contest she's in. She was told not only are we not voting for you, but we will take it a step further and point out whose better than you...AND vote for them instead. I felt that was a slap in her face...
I have mentioned that I felt it might be better for individuals to not vote at all (if not voting for JuicieJennie) unless they would have reasonably found themselves voting in the competition anyway as most people only know about it as a result of JuicieJennie posting about it. However, I still don't see what is wrong with comparing JuicieJennie to the other girls in the beauty pageant given the fact that that is the sole purpose of a beauty pageant. I think that there's a reasonable expectation of being compared to other girls in a beauty pageant if you bring up that you are in a beauty pageant.
Another mitigating factor is the fact that JuicieJennie will need to get in by judge vote as she was doomed (through no fault of her own) by the formatting of the public vote being, "Likes," on Facebook. There's one contestant (Megan White) with 4,291 Likes as of this moment, JJ has 14.
JuicieJennie has publicly stated that she made no serious effort at a Facebook campaign as she didn't realize voting was done this way. In terms of attractiveness, if anyone should look it up, I think it is fair to say that JuicieJennie utterly destroys Megan White.
The problem is the way the public vote works for that competition is fundamentally flawed and skewed to favor individuals who had very active Facebook accounts prior to entering the competition. If you are not such an individual, the only chance you have of winning is to be one of the seven the judges hand-select.
The way the voting should work is someone should have to register a Mint 400 account in order to vote, that way, there's more to the voting than absently clicking on some button on Facebook to the extent that you don't even have to go to the Mint site.
I believe JuicieJennie could very well have kicked @$$ in public voting if the votes had to go through that site and Facebook was otherwise uninvolved. The whole Facebook angle is just a crappy way to do it...
I think it might be a little different if the public voting for the eighth entry to go to Golden Nugget were neck-and-neck and we could be having a realistic impact on who goes and who doesn't. As of right now, we cannot and we do not, Megan White has apparently found a creative way to market herself on Facebook, or has a ton of Friends on Facebook to begin with and is playing to that strength. No other contestant is even close in votes.
Comments?Quote: michael99000You're absolutely right.. There were several awful things said to JJ throughout this thread.
She was called a liar, an attention whore, a fake, a gold digger, and when she asked for a small favor in regards to the contest she's in. She was told not only are we not voting for you, but we will take it a step further and point out whose better than you...AND vote for them instead. I felt that was a slap in her face...
Yet, no bans.
However, I thought that Roger's "sarcastic" comment was the same kind of sarcasm that Statler and/or Waldorf would have used and then laughed heartily about. Haven't they made plenty of cutting comments about the lovely Miss Piggy?
Guess the forum rules are continuously being revised without announcement.
Quote: 1BBI'm so sorry you were suspended over this nonsense, Roger. You are an excellent contributor to this site. To show my support for you, I will not post until your return. Back to the drooling board, everyone.
Completely agree. I will also not post until Roger is back. Worst banning of all time on this site, and not even close. Roger was simply AGREEING WITH THE SAME STATEMENT HB MADE! A statement which is obvious, by the way, considering JJ is a professional model.
I'm probably worse at basketball than LeBron James.
If someone quotes that and agrees, he'll be suspended?
See you all till Roger is unbanned.
Quote: DocI preface this post by saying that I met HB at WoVCon]I[ last year. Not only did I think she looked very nice, but I thought she indeed was very nice.
However, I thought that Roger's "sarcastic" comment was the same kind of sarcasm that Statler and/or Waldorf would have used and then laughed heartily about. Haven't they made plenty of cutting comments about the lovely Miss Piggy?
Guess the forum rules are continuously being revised without announcement.
Yes, total uncalled for ban -- she opened the door, he walked through it. Light-hearted ribbing is the way I took it.
Quote: HotBlondeJust to let you all know, I'm officially leaving his forum. I'm tired of putting up with the BS.
I'm in my 'summary' mode. We wish you well.
Quote: boymimboI'm a bit confused.
When an attractive female posts provocative pictures of herself, solicits entries in a facebook contest, and puts herself in the middle of a sexual encounter, comments and debate are off the table, as long as she sticks around?
JJ, keep posting, I won't bother you anymore. I'm sorry if I caused you distress.
I doubt if you are really sorry. You obviously don't like her and what she represents. Your posts have made that crystal clear. But we will see about 'not bothering her' anymore.
And the answer to the first question is yes.
Quote: WizardNo. But I think there is a different standard in life.
Anyone who doesn't agree with this does not live in the real world.
Quote: Transcend
The reaction of both JJ and HB were inevitable, first with the unwarranted comments of the bulk of male posters, and all the attention that was given to JJ. HB was the main "woman" of the forum(no offense babs or any other female posters, she was more about the attention and less about the gaming aspects, but this is just my subjective opinion from what I have read) until JJ came along and stole some thunder. Humans like attention, male or female, and when someone garners attention from another, the other wants it back.
Psychology 101 Early lecture.
Quote: HotBlondeAll you guys look for is women you want to fuck and to be honest with you most of her type of women wouldn't even want your sorry asses in the first place. So for you to take my compliment to her and turn it around as an insult to me is not only rude but shows just how reprehensible, as the Wizard put it, you guys are. Shame on you for trying to shame a woman! I posted a nice picture a while back in honor of my friend Michael and his website and you used my post of that as a way to try and degrade me. **** you and shame on you.
HB - just to play devil's advocate here:
What is your qualification for calling forum members "sorry asses"…? If you think this is based on their looks or lack thereof, then you a re doing exactly what you are railing against…? If you are basing it on their posts and implied personality, how do you know what JJ would be attracted too…?
You claim that guys just want to "fuck"…but, my claim is that women only seek money…and you, yourself, have alluded to wanting a wealthy man (your baccarat table story) and your thread in the past about wanting someone to pay for your breast implants
So, women want money and men want sex — that is life — can we all be grown up about it now?
Quote: SOOPOOPsychology 101 Early lecture
I'm not college edumacated. Just how I saw it.
Quote: aceofspadesIf you are basing it on You claim that guys just want to "fuck"…but, my claim is that women only seek money…
In this particular case, or as a categorical imperative? If the latter, I'm not even going to dignify that with meaningful counterargument.
Quote: Mission146In this particular case, or as a categorical imperative? If the latter, I'm not even going to dignify that with meaningful counterargument.
If we are going to make a broad generalization about men and women then my statement is categorically true:
Men want to spread their seed and women want to be taken care of/protected (along with their children)
This translates, in modern times, to : Men want to "fuck" and women want a man with money.
I actually think that it is effectively worse than many of the Personal Insults for which I have meted out previous bans because many of those had no reasonable probability of having a negative emotional impact on someone, just people mouthing off to each other, most of the time.
Listen, I love sarcasm as much as the next guy. LOVE IT. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. I think that has been made evident, on occasion, throughout my posting history. I have employed sarcasm, in a non Ad Hominem manner, to belittle, demean, debase and generally make people look like idiots, when the occasion has warranted same. That having been said, I felt that the sarcasm in this case was, again, deliberately hurtful and blatantly ad hominem.
Quote: aceofspadesIf we are going to make a broad generalization about men and women then my statement is categorically true:
Men want to spread their seed and women want to be taken care of/protected (along with their children)
This translates, in modern times, to : Men want to "fuck" and women want a man with money.
It's very difficult for me to even seriously consider your position because, and I know this is self Ad Hominem, but I am married to a woman who is the exact opposite of what you describe. My wife is presently in nursing school and is trying to make it so that I either work not at all, or only work part-time, by her own choosing and against what I actually wanted because she considers me to be the superior parent and wants me to be primary raiser of children.
We're even considering home-schooling our son right now because he is advanced, in many ways, and my wife feels as though I will do a better job than th3e school until we reach the point that we can get him into a nationally accredited school district...of which there are literally 0 within fifty miles of us. That's one of the reasons we are moving in a couple years when Beth graduates.
We are between moving to Vegas and Carson City right now, but leaning towards Carson City...I hope.
Quote: Mission146It's very difficult for me to even seriously consider your position because, and I know this is self Ad Hominem, but I am married to a woman who is the exact opposite of what you describe. My wife is presently in nursing school and is trying to make it so that I either work not at all, or only work part-time, by her own choosing and against what I actually wanted because she considers me to be the superior parent and wants me to be primary raiser of children.
We're even considering home-schooling our son right now because he is advanced, in many ways, and my wife feels as though I will do a better job than th3e school until we reach the point that we can get him into a nationally accredited school district...of which there are literally 0 within fifty miles of us. That's one of the reasons we are moving in a couple years when Beth graduates.
We are between moving to Vegas and Carson City right now, but leaning towards Carson City...I hope.
Mission - as I stated - it is a broad generalization and there will always be exceptions.
The negative consequence, of course, was an increase on the supply side in the labor market which resulted in decreased relative wages in many fields, though I don't think that was their primary intent.
Quote: Mission146What about Feminism and Women's Lib, then? The whole thing originally started because a HUGE subset of women wanted to be able to go out and get their own rather than have to rely on men and wanted to break the male-dominated societal structure present at the time.
The negative consequence, of course, was an increase on the supply side in the labor market which resulted in decreased relative wages in many fields, though I don't think that was their primary intent.
Show me a feminist who pays for a date with a man…women want chivalry on the personal front but equality in the workplace
