"Duck Dynasty"...is our freedom of speech being stifled?
on the show. It's their house, but it's just
used for the show. They live in a huge yuppie
house like Willie has. They also don't all
sit around a 20' table every day and have
dinner like the Walton's. That's all for the
show, it's not real. The family, however, is
real. That's what counts.
Quote: KeyserGeez, Evenbob!
You're in rare forum today! Correct again! It's all about family values. That's why the left hates it. The foolish left has been working so hard to package and sell the left's new perverted family values, and then a show like this comes along and slaps them in the face.
-Keyser
Again its all fake though. Leave it to Beaver showed great family values but it was fiction. This I will admit is more true then Leave it to Beaver or the Cosby show but it is hardly the reality they want to pretend it is. This show is little more than a marketing ploy and again from a business perspective that is great but don't pretend we should all aspire to be this person.
Quote: TwirdmanAgain its all fake though. Leave it to Beaver showed great family values but it was fiction. This I will admit is more true then Leave it to Beaver or the Cosby show but it is hardly the reality they want to pretend it is. This show is little more than a marketing ploy and again from a business perspective that is great but don't pretend we should all aspire to be this person.
I don't think anyone here is aspiring to be Phil Robertson--again, where does that come from? Showing support for his right to state his beliefs and A&E's right to fire him is not exactly aspiring to be him...
There are no real reality shows...that is not exactly a huge surprise to anyone, is it?
Quote: EvenBobThe family, however, is real. That's what counts.
...and that is what drives the people who hate them crazy. A real family. Living the American dream.
Quote: RonCI don't think anyone here is aspiring to be Phil Robertson--again, where does that come from? Showing support for his right to state his beliefs and A&E's right to fire him is not exactly aspiring to be him...
There are no real reality shows...that is not exactly a huge surprise to anyone, is it?
Well my first quote was in response to Keyser who said he should serve as a role model instead of people like the Kardashians. So given a role model is someone one should aspire to be like Keyser clearly said we should aspire to be like Phil Robertson. And yeah I agree he has every right to state his beliefs and A&E has every right to fire him. Doesn't change the fact that Keyser was wrong to say he should be a role model.
Houston Mayor Annise Parker on Saturday took a shot at Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robertson, calling the backwood baron of duck calls and reality TV star a "redneck wingnut" in relation to his views on homosexuality.
Parker, in a midday tweet, called Robertson views "completely irrelevant," reportedly following on a previous discussion.
"I was serious. Who cares?," Parker wrote on her official mayoral Twitter account.
http://www.chron.com/news/politics/houston/article/Houston-mayor-wades-into-Duck-Dynasty-waters-5084690.php?cmpid=hpbn
So many larger problems, so little time to pay attention to them!!
Quote: TwirdmanWell my first quote was in response to Keyser who said he should serve as a role model instead of people like the Kardashians. So given a role model is someone one should aspire to be like Keyser clearly said we should aspire to be like Phil Robertson. And yeah I agree he has every right to state his beliefs and A&E has every right to fire him. Doesn't change the fact that Keyser was wrong to say he should be a role model.
He's a better role model than a whole lot of other people in show business...
Quote: RonCHe's a better role model than a whole lot of other people in show business...
Thats how we decide role models now well he's not the worse person we could choose. I always thought the goal was to find the best guess I was mistaken. I think I'll choose Nixon as a role model because you know what there are a lot worse people in politics am I right. That sounds silly to you right. You get saying he is better than other people does not make him a good role model.
Quote: mickeycrimmThe culture in the Monroe, Louisiana area is pretty much the same as Scott County, Mississippi where my father was from and where I spent a lot of time in my younger days. People in the south are more tolerant today. But my father's generation detested long-haired, bearded hippies. If my father were still alive today that's exactly what he would be calling the Robertsons.
Yeah I mean back then long hair was a sign of the counter culture protest. Proper people kept their hair short. I mean hell the bible specifically calls you out to keep it short.
Quote: TwirdmanYeah I mean back then long hair was a sign of the counter culture protest. Proper people kept their hair short. I mean hell the bible specifically calls you out to keep it short.
Yeah, Jesus always got a 4-10 cut at the barber shop.
Quote: RonC...and that is what drives the people who hate them crazy. A real family. Living the American dream.
The family is very real and very Christian. Phil
spends a lot of time on the road, guest speaking
in churches. He's been doing that for years, since
Willie took over the business. There's an older
brother who has no beard, we saw him this season.
They're so natural on TV because they've been doing
family videos for the duck call business for years.
And Kay has been doing cooking videos for years.
The family is no stranger to the camera. None of
them curse, drink, smoke, do drugs or chew tobacco.
They just make money the old fashioned way. They
earn it thru hard work.
Quote: treetopbuddyYeah, Jesus always got a 4-10 cut at the barber shop.
Dang straight. Don't want to be a long haired hippy. He had to content himself with being a short haired hippy.
Quote: TwirdmanI will admit it may not be in there I simply pointed out that the Mormon church can change Doctrine and have in the past.Quote: Beethoven9thLet's go back to the link that YOU cited:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_and_Covenants
Yeah, and in pointing that out you completely disproved your OWN argument about interracial marriage & Mormon doctrine. LOL!
Quote: Beethoven9thYeah, and in pointing that out you completely disproved your OWN argument about interracial marriage & Mormon doctrine. LOL!
No just because something is not in D&C does not mean it is not official church doctrine. Everything in D&C is official church doctrine but just because something is not in D&C does not mean it is not official church doctrine. To take laws again every city ordinance is a law but not every law is a city ordinance murder is a crime and is not a city ordinance. Similarly interracial marriage isn't in the D&C but it was banned. The prevailing view would have almost definitely been it was banned by the bible and as such no change to doctrine had been made.
I mean really this is a case of all dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs. I pointed to a rule that the first presidency and Quorum of 12 agreed on and your saying nope not a rule. That would be like me pulling out a house cat saying what a nice animal it is and you saying nope not an animal since its not in my list of dogs.
Quote: 24BingoCaptioned for Beethoven9th: Even if it ain't true, it sure looks like it. They say they said it wrong. If they got together and told us they'd said it wrong agin, it'd look like it changed agin. O'carse, they wouldn't, since now they ain't sayin' it wrong. If'n they said they was, y'could go ahead n' kill yer baby 'till it's born. O'carse, it don't seem like that "if" - which is more or less yer "if" - 'dever happen, but that just makes it tautological-like.
Can anyone translate? I don't speak Bingo-ese.
Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: 24BingoCaptioned for Beethoven9th: Even if it ain't true, it sure looks like it. They say they said it wrong. If they got together and told us they'd said it wrong agin, it'd look like it changed agin. O'carse, they wouldn't, since now they ain't sayin' it wrong. If'n they said they was, y'could go ahead n' kill yer baby 'till it's born. O'carse, it don't seem like that "if" - which is more or less yer "if" - 'dever happen, but that just makes it tautological-like.
Can anyone translate? I don't speak Bingo-ese.
Basically you are ignorant about the history of the Catholic churches stance on abortion and the numerous changes and revisions that have happened. For instance use to be allowed up to 12 weeks then up to the time of the quickening then dissallowed at all times and some fluctuations between those along with changes for the punishment and what kind of exceptions were allowed. By you saying Dogma can't change and thus church can't change rules on abortion your simply being ignorant, or deliberately misleading, though I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say ignorant.
Quote: TwirdmanI mean really this is a case of all dogs are animals but not all animals are dogs. I pointed to a rule that the first presidency and Quorum of 12 agreed on and your saying nope not a rule. That would be like me pulling out a house cat saying what a nice animal it is and you saying nope not an animal since its not in my list of dogs.
Basically you are ignorant about the history of the Mormon Church and its official position on interracial marriage. Even the link that YOU provided on church doctrine doesn't even mention it. BTW, I think it's hilarious how you have spent 20+ pages trying to argue that the Mormon Church had an official ban on interracial marriage; therefore, gay marriage should be legal. *FACEPALM*
I think it's pretty bizarre that you're arguing:
Brigham Young opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE interracial marriage was against church doctrine...THEREFORE the Mormon Church at one time opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE a major religion opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE this is no different from major religions today that oppose gay marriage.
Quote: TwirdmanBasically you are ignorant about the history...
I will repeat (from Catholic.com):
Can the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
But you're right, and Catholic.com is wrong, huh? *facepalm*
*BTW, on a different note, you said earlier that you are "asexual". So were you ever attracted to men/women at one time?
Quote: Beethoven9thBasically you are ignorant about the history of the Mormon Church and its official position on interracial marriage. Even the link that YOU provided on church doctrine doesn't even mention it. BTW, I think it's hilarious how you have spent 20+ pages trying to argue that the Mormon Church had an official ban on interracial marriage; therefore, gay marriage should be legal. *FACEPALM*
I think it's pretty bizarre that you're arguing:
Brigham Young opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE interracial marriage was against church doctrine...THEREFORE the Mormon Church at one time opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE a major religion opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE this is no different from major religions today that oppose gay marriage.
I will repeat (from Catholic.com):
Can the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
But you're right, and Catholic.com is wrong, huh? *facepalm*
*BTW, on a different note, you said earlier that you are "asexual". So were you ever attracted to men/women at one time?
Ok are you denying that the Catholic church has changed its position on abortion since if you are you're wrong. The changes are matters of historical record. Also what I am arguing is why are you right to oppose gay marriage because religion why were other people wrong to oppose interracial marriage because of religion. There are passages in the bible talking about interracial mixing and the mixing of tribes and they condemn it why is your passage that condemns homosexual marriage right while those that oppose interracial marriage is wrong. Until you can answer that with an argument that is biblically sound so not using external sources of morality than yes you are in the exact same camp as those who opposed interracial marriage.
Can the Church change its doctrines?Quote: TwirdmanOk are you denying that the Catholic church...
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
This is straight from Catholic.com. Cardinal Timothy Dolan has also made similar statements. Are you saying you know more about Catholicism than they do? (It's OK if you think you do, just ADMIT it though)
Quote: TwirdmanAlso what I am arguing is why are you right to oppose gay marriage because religion why were other people wrong to oppose interracial marriage because of religion
Brigham Young opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE interracial marriage was against church doctrine...THEREFORE the Mormon Church at one time opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE a major religion opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE this is no different from major religions today that oppose gay marriage.
Yeah, that's a great argument...
*Also, please answer my question about the "asexual" thing. Were you ever attracted to men/women at one time?
Quote: Beethoven9thCan the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
This is straight from Catholic.com. Cardinal Timothy Dolan has also made similar statements. Are you saying you know more about Catholicism than they do? (It's OK if you think you do, just ADMIT it though)
Brigham Young opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE interracial marriage was against church doctrine...THEREFORE the Mormon Church at one time opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE a major religion opposed interracial marriage...THEREFORE this is no different from major religions today that oppose gay marriage.
Yeah, that's a great argument...
*Also, please answer my question about the "asexual" thing. Were you ever attracted to men/women at one time?
I don't care what statements some cardinal makes today 5 previous pope and Augustine all changed rules regarding abortion. A statement can't change a matter of historical record.
Quote: TwirdmanI don't care what statements some cardinal makes
Gee, great argument.
How come you won't answer questions about the "asexual" thing? Just curious. I want to be educated since I've never met any asexuals before.
Quote: Beethoven9thGee, great argument.
How come you won't answer questions about the "asexual" thing? Just curious. I want to be educated since I've never met any asexuals before.
Because its a private matter and again popes have already changed rules regarding abortion you can't just say popes can't change rules regarding abortion.
Can the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
This is straight from Catholic.com. Cardinal Timothy Dolan said the same thing. I think they have more credibility than you (or I) do.
Quote: Beethoven9thTwird, I will repeat AGAIN:
Can the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
This is straight from Catholic.com. Cardinal Timothy Dolan said the same thing. I think they have more credibility than you (or I) do.
And I think 5 former popes, Saint Augustine, and Vatican II all have more legitimately than a single Cardinal.
I should have expected intellectual dishonesty. It's a hallmark of liberals. *facepalm*
Quote: Beethoven9thTwird, you're so disingenuous. You act like Cardinal Dolan is the ONLY person in the world who believes that.
I should have expected intellectual dishonesty. It's a hallmark of liberals. *facepalm*
So are you denying that 5 popes and saint Augustine all changed rules regarding abortion?
Can the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change." —from Catholic.com
Quote: catholic.comWhat’s the Difference?
When discussing our Catholic faith, we must understand the difference between doctrine and discipline and be able to distinguish which of the two any particular matter may be.
Our Sunday Visitor’s Catholic Encyclopedia defines "discipline" as an "instruction, system of teaching or of law, given under the authority of the Church [which] can be changed with the approval of proper authority, as opposed to doctrine, which is unchangeable" (334).
Discipline, then, is man-made and can be changed as often as the Church desires. This is not to say that the authority to enact discipline is man-made. In fact, Scripture itself records the Church’s God-given authority to enact discipline: "[W]hatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18; see also 16:19). Now, this power to bind and to loose extends beyond discipline, but it certainly includes the authority to enact discipline as well.
Doctrine, on the other hand, is the teaching of the Church on matters of faith and morals. All such teaching—or at least the basis for it—was handed down to the Church by Jesus and the apostles prior to the death of the last apostle. Scripture refers to doctrine as "the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3). As mentioned before, doctrine can develop over time as the Church comes to understand it better—but it cannot change. No one—not even the pope—has the authority to change doctrine.
Quote: Beethoven9thAre you denying that millions of Catholic scholars around the world agree with the following?
Can the Church change its doctrines?
"No, the Church cannot change its doctrines no matter how badly some theologians may want it to or how loudly they claim it can. The doctrines of the Catholic Church are the deposit of faith revealed by Jesus Christ, taught by the apostles, and handed down in their entirety by the apostles to their successors. Since revealed truth cannot change, and since the deposit of faith is comprised of revealed truth, expressed in Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the deposit of faith cannot change."
I don't care the laity don't define church doctrine. The laity have almost no grasp of some central teachings of the church like the immaculate conception of the virgin mary or the assumption of Mary or transsubstanceation so I couldn't expect them to understand what an ex catharda statements entails. This is why Popes and the council of cardinals exist and then further down the chain to archbishops then bishops and finally priest they are meant to disseminate revelation to the laity. So again I don't care if every Catholic in the world rejects the Assumption of Mary it is still official church doctrine.
Quote: TwirdmanThats how we decide role models now well he's not the worse person we could choose. I always thought the goal was to find the best guess I was mistaken. I think I'll choose Nixon as a role model because you know what there are a lot worse people in politics am I right. That sounds silly to you right. You get saying he is better than other people does not make him a good role model.
Okay, I will rephrase. He is a pretty good role model. He could temper his words a bit, but his beliefs are what he stated and he did not say that we would judge those who sinned but that they would be judged...as all who believe understand they will be. The wages of sin are death; the gift of God is everlasting life...repent, you shall be forgiven.
He didn't say to do anything to any of the sinners except to try to provide them with the word of God.
He is imperfect, like all of us.
Quote: boymimboCan we put this to rest, and the two of you book a room? Don't worry, one of you is asexual. I've met asexual people. They're just not interested in sex.
Quote: catholic.comWhat’s the Difference?
When discussing our Catholic faith, we must understand the difference between doctrine and discipline and be able to distinguish which of the two any particular matter may be.
Our Sunday Visitor’s Catholic Encyclopedia defines "discipline" as an "instruction, system of teaching or of law, given under the authority of the Church [which] can be changed with the approval of proper authority, as opposed to doctrine, which is unchangeable" (334).
Discipline, then, is man-made and can be changed as often as the Church desires. This is not to say that the authority to enact discipline is man-made. In fact, Scripture itself records the Church’s God-given authority to enact discipline: "[W]hatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18; see also 16:19). Now, this power to bind and to loose extends beyond discipline, but it certainly includes the authority to enact discipline as well.
Doctrine, on the other hand, is the teaching of the Church on matters of faith and morals. All such teaching—or at least the basis for it—was handed down to the Church by Jesus and the apostles prior to the death of the last apostle. Scripture refers to doctrine as "the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3). As mentioned before, doctrine can develop over time as the Church comes to understand it better—but it cannot change. No one—not even the pope—has the authority to change doctrine.Fighting BS one post at a time!
Quote: RonCOkay, I will rephrase. He is a pretty good role model. He could temper his words a bit, but his beliefs are what he stated and he did not say that we would judge those who sinned but that they would be judged...as all who believe understand they will be. The wages of sin are death; the gift of God is everlasting life...repent, you shall be forgiven.
He didn't say to do anything to any of the sinners except to try to provide them with the word of God.
He is imperfect, like all of us.
Nope still not a good role model. Mr Rogers good role model who is Christian. Pope Francis as far as I know good role model who is Christian. Mr Robertson good businessmen who is Christian but otherwise your average guy.
Quote: Beethoven9thHey Twird, are you reading this??? I've highlighted the best part for you. ;)
Quote: boymimboCan we put this to rest, and the two of you book a room? Don't worry, one of you is asexual. I've met asexual people. They're just not interested in sex.
Quote: catholic.comWhat’s the Difference?
When discussing our Catholic faith, we must understand the difference between doctrine and discipline and be able to distinguish which of the two any particular matter may be.
Our Sunday Visitor’s Catholic Encyclopedia defines "discipline" as an "instruction, system of teaching or of law, given under the authority of the Church [which] can be changed with the approval of proper authority, as opposed to doctrine, which is unchangeable" (334).
Discipline, then, is man-made and can be changed as often as the Church desires. This is not to say that the authority to enact discipline is man-made. In fact, Scripture itself records the Church’s God-given authority to enact discipline: "[W]hatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18; see also 16:19). Now, this power to bind and to loose extends beyond discipline, but it certainly includes the authority to enact discipline as well.
Doctrine, on the other hand, is the teaching of the Church on matters of faith and morals. All such teaching—or at least the basis for it—was handed down to the Church by Jesus and the apostles prior to the death of the last apostle. Scripture refers to doctrine as "the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3). As mentioned before, doctrine can develop over time as the Church comes to understand it better—but it cannot change. No one—not even the pope—has the authority to change doctrine.
Fine admit that the churches view on abortion is not doctrine than. I've already said there are central tenets of faith like the physical resurrection of Christ that cannot be changed even by the pope and the council of cardinals. You are the one arguing the church cannot change a rule concerning abortion which they can.
Quote: TwirdmanFine
My god, Twird admitted he was wrong. Gotta give him credit for that. :)
Quote: Beethoven9thMy god, Twird admitted he was wrong. Gotta give him credit for that. :)
Yeah first thing I said was there were matters the pope couldn't change and laid out some examples. Then I listed something he might be able to change gave some example and finally I said there were things he definately can change abortion amongst them. So are you going to admit you were wrong about abortion.
Quote: TwirdmanYeah first thing I said was there were matters the pope couldn't change and laid out some examples.
Then what the hell were you arguing about for 10 pages? You just like to hear yourself talk. SMH
Quote: TwirdmanNope still not a good role model. Mr Rogers good role model who is Christian. Pope Francis as far as I know good role model who is Christian. Mr Robertson good businessmen who is Christian but otherwise your average guy.
Okay..since you are setting the standard for role models, who do you think are good role models?
Quote: Beethoven9thThen what the hell were you arguing about for 10 pages? You just like to hear yourself talk. SMH
No I argued that the church can change somethings abortion being an example. Again this is a matter of all dogs are animals not all animals are dogs. Can the pope change the Catholic church's view on abortion yes and as I showed they have. Can the Pope make it change it so that Jesus was not the divine son of God no that is outside his purview.
So again are you going to admit you were wrong about abortion which is the one thing you cited as unchangeable?
Quote: RonCOkay..since you are setting the standard for role models, who do you think are good role models?
I just quoted 2 good role models if you wanted Christian. There are also a number of scientist Neil Degrassi Tyson, Bill Nye, and a number of others. There are some business men who also do good in the world Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. I mean do you guys read past the first sentence I write since I clearly wrote 2 good role models there.
Quote: TwirdmanNo I argued that the church can change somethings abortion being an example. Again this is a matter of all dogs are animals not all animals are dogs
Blah blah blah...you lost. Give it up, Twird!
Quote: Beethoven9thBlah blah blah...you lost. Give it up, Twird!
No you are clearly wrong on this. OK say we do a coin flip and you call head I flip the coin and get tails you can't than claim victory since some coin flips come up heads. You claimed they couldn't change abortion I proved they have.
So again unless you can give some reason why the current pope can't change rules regarding abortion when 5 former popes have I'll be glad to hear it. Otherwise your wrong in saying the pope can't change rules regarding abortion.
Quote: Beethoven9thGet over it, Twird. You lost.....boymimbo provided the evidence.
You said "If the Pope and every single cardinal got together and all agreed to support abortion, that does not make it part of church doctrine."
I then replied "http://voices.yahoo.com/history-abortion-catholic-church-5886362.html?cat=37 clearly rules on abortions have changed many times based on the ruling of the pope. Now I will admit somethings are beyond the ability of the current or any pope to change. A pope cannot reject the physical resurrection or the physical assumption of Jesus into heaven as these are biblical teachings. Also its arguable whether the current pope could overturn statements another pope made as an ex cathedra statement like the assumption of the virgin mary or the immaculate conception of the virgin Mary. But they can overturn many things. You can argue one cardinal saying he can't do it but given I have at least 5 popes who did change rules concerning abortion. They changed everything from when it could be from 12 weeks, to the time of the quickening, to banned at all times. They've also changed the penalty for it and the penalty based on factors like pre or post quickening. I will admit no change has happened for about 150 years but that does not mean changes can never happen as history dictates they can."
So how am I wrong you claimed rules regarding abortion cannot change I showed examples of it changing. You can get into a semantics argument about you said church doctrine and it was actually church rules changing but this entire debate has been about church rules from that perspective. Since if as you said doctrine is unchanging a rule about interracial marriage in the mormon church cannot be doctrine since I claimed it change just like rules about blacks not entering priest hood in Mormons wasn't doctrine since it changed.
Look, this started off as a debate regarding Phil Robertson and A&E. You lost that debate, so you started talking about religion. You couldn't win there, so you focused specifically on the Mormon Church. Then you lost there, so you switched to the Catholic Church. C'mon, when will the insanity end, bro?????
You lost. Get over it.
Quote: Beethoven9thTwird, this is becoming embarrassing. You keep making subtle shifts in your argument whenever you lose.
Look, this started off as a debate regarding Phil Robertson and A&E. You lost that debate, so you started talking about religion. You couldn't win there, so you focused specifically on the Mormon Church. Then you lost there, so you switched to the Catholic Church. C'mon, when will the insanity end, bro?????
You lost. Get over it.
Your thee one who went with all those. You claimed that banning interracial marriage was never officially supported by a church I pointed out it was with an example. You claimed that leaders of a church couldn't make rules I pointed out they can. Then you claimed that a pope can't change rule regarding abortion and again I proved it can. So when are you going to admit you were wrong about abortion?
Just let it go, man. You lost. Get over it.
On to the next debate...
Quote: Beethoven9thTwird, Twird, Twird.....you brought up interracial marriage, not me. *facepalm*
Just let it go, man. You lost. Get over it.
On to the next debate...
You brought up traditional marriage which was the same motto as those fighting interracial marriage.
The price of gold is plummeting, Canada has judicially invalidated all anti-prostitution laws, even the Mormons have declared a ban on same sex marriages to be unconstitutional, the girl shot in her Colorado school died in the hospital, Andrea Morales is still pushing stuntmen around NYC coffeeshops ... and the whole nation is taking sides on Ducks, TV "Reality" shows and Hollywood's adage about "bad" publicity.
Quote: FleaStiffAre the pro-Bestiality types protesting?
You're a brave man for posting in this thread. Twird will jump in at any moment now. Just watch.
