Minimum wage

I think I brought this up a few years ago.... But interested on the board's thoughts.....

Company A in your community makes widgets. They have a long standing history in the community, sponsor a softball league, donate to the local food bank, etc... They employ 1000 people. They make the following announcement.....

"Due to a new computer program we were able to buy for just $1000 we can now produce the same number of widgets.... and we will only need 500 people to do so! We will thus be able to lower the price of widgets 5%!!! And if by lowering the price we increase our sales, we might need to hire 50 of the 500 people let go back to their old jobs!"


Is that good that they became more efficient, or bad?

Quote: SOOPOO

I think I brought this up a few years ago.... But interested on the board's thoughts.....

Company A in your community makes widgets. They have a long standing history in the community, sponsor a softball league, donate to the local food bank, etc... They employ 1000 people. They make the following announcement.....

"Due to a new computer program we were able to buy for just $1000 we can now produce the same number of widgets.... and we will only need 500 people to do so! We will thus be able to lower the price of widgets 5%!!! And if by lowering the price we increase our sales, we might need to hire 50 of the 500 people let go back to their old jobs!"


Is that good that they became more efficient, or bad?

Its good, they are staying ahead of the curve and employing 500 people. If they didn't become more efficient, another company would and put them out of business. Better to become more efficient and employ 500 then be unefficient employ 1k for a while then go out of business and employ 0 due to tough competition.
Due to their efficiency, they may put other companies of business and be able to hire back the laid off 500.

Quote: tringlomane

Personally, I have never heard of a "yuppie" needing a roommate, but yeah, having roommates is a good way to cut down cost. But I hate to say it, but poorer people are generally also less trustworthy roommates. On my private poker/mostly male BS forum, I had to listen to a member that I have met in real life renting out his former house to his sister (at a discount of course). After 4 years, it was bedbug infested... :-\ People are not going to be chomping at the bit for a minimum wage roommate unless they are naive.

so minimum wage people and welfare people are dishonest by nature? And these are the people we need to employ and give 15/hr.
Hell, if they have a propensity to steal from a roomate...they will have no problem stealing from "the man" at their 15/hr job.

So we will have a workfiorce full of "untrustworhty" people....NICE

aND PLENTY OF HARD WORKING PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD TAKE ROOMATES.

its inconvenient and you lose some privacy....but it also pushes you to do better in life so that you can eventually afford the privacy you desire in the neighborhood you desire.

No one is saying that the govt should not provide welfare for people so they have a roof over their head and food to eat.
Its just that the govt should not on top of that be providing enough money for twinkies, smart phones with unlimited texting, cable tv, and an xbox for their kids along with full private living conditions. Heck there are working people that dont have all that. And all that are not neccessities.

everyone wants a place to live with great privacy, a living room, an eat in kitchen, their own bedroom, and bathroom, cable tv, a smart phone with unlimited everything, an x-box. junk food, health care.and the ability for someone else to pay for it all.

Not everyone can have that....unless you get welfare.

and maybe just maybe if all those things were not available via the combo of welfare check and food stamps....there would be a real ennthusiastic drive to get off the couch and better ones self in order to get a job better than the current minimum wage

And no one says that a single person on minimum wage has to support themselves fullly on that wage. They can get a roomate and share expenses. They can choose not to have children. They can choose to terminate a pregnancy in most cases for free with a visit to planned parenthood
they make all the choices. Nothing is forced on them.

yeah I know according to the guy above thse people cant be trusted...yet we want mom and pop to pay them 15/hr

Quote: petroglyph

Some random responses to different posts above.

I think it's Foxcon that manufacture's the iphones in China. The working conditions are so bad that they installed nets around the building so no more employees could jump to their death. An iphone costs less than ten dollars to manufacture.

Yes, once the R&D is accomplished (like in the pharmaceutical field), items themselves are not that expensive to manufacture BUT, if you do not dangle the carrot, R&D will turn into "leave well enough alone" - you are not paying for the bits and pieces that go into the actual manufacturing of the item, you are paying for the intellectual work it took to create the idea of the item

I know people in Manhattan earning six figures that have roommates

Quote: LarryS

And I am still waiting for Mission to give a real answer to....why is it that yuppies(or whatever the equivalent is today) in big cities, take on one or 2 roommates in order to afford their rents and living expenses while they work at their jobs. Yes their privacy is shot. Yes it might put a damper on entertaining the opposite sex, yes if there is one tv you may not always get to view what you like. All the inconveneience is there...but for some reason these folks can figuure out how to stretch their dollar.

I've already answered that and I answered that I answered that and gave you a link to my answer, which was pages ago. I'm not going to refute your counter-argument which seems to be, "Not a real answer," I could call anything that I wanted, "Not a real answer," so it's not a meaningful rebuttal. Go back, quote the post to which I linked, present counter-argument...you're the individual who has not continued that particular aspect of the argument, not me.

Quote: SOOPOO

I think I brought this up a few years ago.... But interested on the board's thoughts.....

Company A in your community makes widgets. They have a long standing history in the community, sponsor a softball league, donate to the local food bank, etc... They employ 1000 people. They make the following announcement.....

"Due to a new computer program we were able to buy for just $1000 we can now produce the same number of widgets.... and we will only need 500 people to do so! We will thus be able to lower the price of widgets 5%!!! And if by lowering the price we increase our sales, we might need to hire 50 of the 500 people let go back to their old jobs!"


Is that good that they became more efficient, or bad?

It's not only good, it's necessary. Necessary for this country to try and remain a global leader. Those industries that remain in this country will only be able to do so if they can continually improve quality, but more importantly, reduce the cost of its product. China has taken a chunk out of our economy with cheap labor. This will continue to happen with Vietnam and India becoming more industrialized. Other countries behind them. The USA has only the hope of becoming more efficient in order to remain a leader. Otherwise, we will become the Europe of the 22nd. century. Once global leaders who have been relegated to also rans.

We need to change. To evolve. We can not remain global leaders without doing so. Which leads me to the conservatives on these boards, that like to paint everything with a broad brush. They are reluctant for change. They are the sheep......the followers. We need leaders. Those who are willing to change the status quo. To keep moving rather than standing still and getting run over.

Quote: AZDuffman

Of course since when someone steals we all pay so to combat this we could have the government force us to buy "checkout insurance" so we have a cashier on duty at all times, or pay a fine if we do not want this service.

+1

LOL!

Quote: aceofspades

Yes, once the R&D is accomplished (like in the pharmaceutical field), items themselves are not that expensive to manufacture BUT, if you do not dangle the carrot, R&D will turn into "leave well enough alone" - you are not paying for the bits and pieces that go into the actual manufacturing of the item, you are paying for the intellectual work it took to create the idea of the item

+1

Some people will never understand this. They think companies would continue with R&D (even with no incentive) because it's the "right thing to do". *facepalm*

Quote: LarryS

so minimum wage people and welfare people are dishonest by nature? And these are the people we need to employ and give 15/hr.
Hell, if they have a propensity to steal from a roomate...they will have no problem stealing from "the man" at their 15/hr job.

So we will have a workfiorce full of "untrustworhty" people....NICE

I tend to doubt it if the penalty for theft is death.

Quote: LarryS

Did u see the argument that someone said that if a business goes under due to the financial strain of 15/hr min wage....the govt is doing "mom and pop" a favor by pushing htem out of business

No, I missed that one (thank god!). I always get a kick out of it when people who have never built a successful business act like they know what's best for business owners.

At first glance it seems obvious that the community is better off with the 1000 jobs. What happens in real life though is that most of the 1000 people that just had there jobs saved don't respond by supporting another local company. They spend their money out of town because they can save 5% buying stuff from Company B who embraced the new technology for their product.

Everyone would like their job saved but won't spend squat of their own wages to save someone elses job. It is popular to blame 'big business' for outsourcing to the cheapest supplier and killing the manufacturering in the US. Every consumer in the country had a vote in that process everytime they bought something. However as has been taught in the consumer ed classes in school you need to search out the best deal and not get ripped off by the retailer. Hence the rise of big box stores and Chinese manufacturing.

Quote: petroglyph

This is a radio interview that supports your post. The gal is being honest. http://youtu.be/a_r_v9cYBPYhonest.

I apologize, but that link does not seem to work.

Quote: Mission146

I apologize, but that link does not seem to work.

http://youtu.be/a_r_v9cYBPY


I don't know what happened? I just tried clicking on the link here and it works. Thanks for checking. If this doesn't work let me know and I'll try something different.

Quote: SOOPOO

I think I brought this up a few years ago.... But interested on the board's thoughts.....

Company A in your community makes widgets. They have a long standing history in the community, sponsor a softball league, donate to the local food bank, etc... They employ 1000 people. They make the following announcement.....

"Due to a new computer program we were able to buy for just $1000 we can now produce the same number of widgets.... and we will only need 500 people to do so! We will thus be able to lower the price of widgets 5%!!! And if by lowering the price we increase our sales, we might need to hire 50 of the 500 people let go back to their old jobs!"


Is that good that they became more efficient, or bad?

It is called "Creative Destruction." Without it we would all still be toiling in textile mills or doing all kinds of manual labor just to produce the basic needs of society.

Quote: AZDuffman

As to theft the self-checkouts are pretty good. There is a scale under the bagging area and if you put the item in without scanning it the unit tells you to rescan and eventually puts out an alert. .

One of the ways to ripoff a self checkout is to scan
2 items that are heavy, like big cans of dog food,
pretend to scan a somewhat expensive very light item
that weighs maybe 2oz, then immediately scan a can
of dog food again. This almost always works, the scale
just isn't sensitive enough to read the 2oz item in
with the 86oz of dog food. The trick is to have the
light item in one hand and the heavy item in the
other. As soon as the light item hits the bag, scan
the can very fast and have it hit the bag immediately.
I know somebody who does this and it works everytime
at Walmart and other stores that have the same setup.
It won't work where the scale is part of a conveyor belt.

The person in charge of the area can watch out for
this on their monitor, but it's very hard to catch. Even
if you did get caught, just say you thought it
scanned, they won't do anything because they can't
prove you did it on purpose. It's not your fault the
scale didn't catch it.

Quote: LarryS

People that dont prefer it..dont know how to use it. I didnt "prefer" it either, until I got up the guts to try it. Its like ATMS...when they first came out ppeople didnt want to give a machine control over their money. Was scared the wrong amount would come out and how do you complain to a nameless faceless machine. Wondered if the correct records were being kept as far a debioting your account correctly. As people used it more, they started to "prefer" it. The convenience, the speed, the accuracy.

I will go to a cashier over self-checkout anytime. Self-checkout is slower. The only time I go to self-checkout is when there are long lines and I know I'll be waiting. Adding self-checkouts will not improve efficiency.

Quote:

40 years ago, most people didn't prefer to pump their own gas. But now everyone does....and they even process their own credicard payment,
Hell 30-40 years ago people "prefered" to have someone available to help them when they walk into a store. A sales person at their back and call. Now people walk into big box stores and know they are on their own....and people now "prefer" that.

Not at all. I never want to pump my own gas, and look forward to my next assignment in NJ when I can sit in my car and have my gas pumped for me. Who would prefer pumping their own gas? And I don't mind a salesperson from time-to-time, as long as there is no pressuring.

Quote:

costs/prices will spiral upwards, the number of full time workers and their benefitswill spiral downwards

This is already happening with the race to the bottom. Health care prices are increasing so you see either the downloading or elimination of benefits and/or the conditions for full time employment. This is why the playing field needs to be evened out by evening out the cost of providing health care and increasing minimum wage.

Quote: AZDuffman

Not sure where you have been shopping. I was at WMT late last night but the place was still busy. The self-checkout is "Wendy's Style" with one line feeding about 8 registers. I was upset at how long the line looked but realized it would be faster with this approach. Well it was, I estimate I was in line less than 5 minutes and any other cashier would have been three or more times as long.

As to theft the self-checkouts are pretty good. There is a scale under the bagging area and if you put the item in without scanning it the unit tells you to rescan and eventually puts out an alert. Of course since when someone steals we all pay so to combat this we could have the government force us to buy "checkout insurance" so we have a cashier on duty at all times, or pay a fine if we do not want this service.

But back to the point, I almost always prefer the empty self-checkout line to a cashier with a line. Exceptions are at Lowes/THD when I use gift cards or have anything complex because their self-checkout is not ready for prime time. People seem to self-segregate at checkouts. People who use the self-units tend to know how to work them fast while those who can't stay away.

I would be in favor of a no-food-stamps at the self-units if they do not do that already to prevent fraud.

My dad refuses to use a self-checkout being the union guy who does not want to take away someone's job. Others are surely like him. But the sharps use them because they are mostly faster. Raise the minimum wage and we will keep getting more of them.

The new Walmart near my home doesn't have self-checkout. They do have the express lines where you queue up Wendy's style and the computer tells you to "go to Register 15". I hate shopping at Walmart. My local grocery store has self-checkout and I use it if there's a lineup on the available checkouts and I have less than 10 items (and not much produce) and no coupons to use. My grocery store closest to home opened up a couple of months ago with no self-checkout. The new target that opened does, but the target lines are usually horrendous especially at this time of year.

I prefer empty-self checkout to a line as well. But self-checkout has been optimized I believe. Some people just won't use it, and if you have a large order (which is what your grocery store wants), you won't use it either. A gradual increase in minimum wage (what I advocate) with a combination of tax credits for small businesses and a reduction in the corporate tax rate will mitigate these costs and put more money into to the lower-middle class, which in turn will stimulate the economy and get people off of welfare rolls and decrease government costs. It won't increase the number of self-checkout units because I believe that its use has been maximized in stores that already have them.

Quote: boymimbo

The new Walmart near my home doesn't have self-checkout. They do have the express lines where you queue up Wendy's style and the computer tells you to "go to Register 15". I hate shopping at Walmart. My local grocery store has self-checkout and I use it if there's a lineup on the available checkouts and I have less than 10 items (and not much produce) and no coupons to use. My grocery store closest to home opened up a couple of months ago with no self-checkout. The new target that opened does, but the target lines are usually horrendous especially at this time of year.

I don't think anyone likes shopping at Wal-Mart. Well I might have met one or two but that was it. Some grocery stores may be unionized and fighting it, those unions are fighting a losing battle. Checkout time is a big determining factor in if people will shop in a store or not.

I prefer empty-self checkout to a line as well. But self-checkout has been optimized I believe. Some people just won't use it, and if you have a large order (which is what your grocery store wants), you won't use it either. A gradual increase in minimum wage (what I advocate) with a combination of tax credits for small businesses and a reduction in the corporate tax rate will mitigate these costs and put more money into to the lower-middle class, which in turn will stimulate the economy and get people off of welfare rolls and decrease government costs. It won't increase the number of self-checkout units because I believe that its use has been maximized in stores that already have them.

Raising the minimum wage will still not get the people off of welfare as too many long-term welfare cases are happy living the lazy life they have. This is why the 1996 Gingrich Welfare Reform Act worked, it put a limit on how long you could get benefits and once that time was up if you did not work you did not eat. And that is all that will get some people to work.

I would advocate for removing the Federal Minimum Wage altogether and letting each state set their own.

I believe as the baby boomers age and pass away, self-checkout will become more of the norm. Asking senior citizens to comprehend self-checkout is a losing battle.

Quote: aceofspades

I believe as the baby boomers age and pass away, self-checkout will become more of the norm. Asking senior citizens to comprehend self-checkout is a losing battle.

As a senior citizen I resent that comment. I see more seniors at the self check-outs than young people. The entitled youngsters feel the store should provide a cashier since the stores "make a fortune". The same thing is true with returning the carts. The very old still hobble over and return their carts the 'young pricess' is too busy with her important life to take the time.

Quote: kenarman

As a senior citizen I resent that comment. I see more seniors at the self check-outs than young people. The entitled youngsters feel the store should provide a cashier since the stores "make a fortune". The same thing is true with returning the carts. The very old still hobble over and return their carts the 'young pricess' is too busy with her important life to take the time.

Sorry that you resent it but I have seen many seniors become frustrated with technology (as I am sure I will be with new technology as I advance with age). There are exceptions to all generalities.

Quote: kenarman

As a senior citizen I resent that comment. I see more seniors at the self check-outs than young people. The entitled youngsters feel the store should provide a cashier since the stores "make a fortune". The same thing is true with returning the carts. The very old still hobble over and return their carts the 'young pricess' is too busy with her important life to take the time.

Seriously? I don't generally see that. If I see a 60+ at a self-checkout, it's sort of rare. I am known to also grab loose carts from the parking lot at age 33. That stems from working at a supermarket in the past...baggers/cart people were/are generally treated like crap, so if I can help, I do.

Quote: AZ

Raising the minimum wage will still not get the people off of welfare as too many long-term welfare cases are happy living the lazy life they have. This is why the 1996 Gingrich Welfare Reform Act worked, it put a limit on how long you could get benefits and once that time was up if you did not work you did not eat. And that is all that will get some people to work.

Some people will come off welfare with a raise in the minimum wage. Some never won't because they're unemployable. And if you can't eat, you either are forced to work or you live on the street. And living on the street (being homeless) is no way to live in my opinion (see my note on being lucky).

Quote: boymimbo

Some people will come off welfare with a raise in the minimum wage. Some never won't because they're unemployable. And if you can't eat, you either are forced to work or you live on the street. And living on the street (being homeless) is no way to live in my opinion (see my note on being lucky).

Here is where I see the difference in our opinions. You are of the belief that we need to make work more attractive so people get off welfare. I am of the belief that work is a requirement not an option.

If you are unemployable you need to do whatever you can to change that. This may mean taking a minimum wage job and getting some work experience under your belt. It may mean taking a trade apprenticeship or some kind of schooling. Probably it means both. However, what you cannot do is say, "a minimum wage job is not worth my trouble so I want other people to pay my way in life."

We probably need to re-open mental institutions for the homeless that have mental issues. Those that refuse to work (see the OWS crowd) sorry but too bad, get a job mopping floors. Anyone who does will not be the first.

People can get welfare and basically refuse to work but I have to pay my student loans and property taxes…right?

Quote: aceofspades

People can get welfare and basically refuse to work but I have to pay my student loans and property taxes…right?

SUCKER!

Quote: boymimbo

And living on the street (being homeless) is no way to live in my opinion

Um...this is the whole reason why one needs to WORK.

So in your world the responsible, productive members of society have to provide not only for themselves & their families, but also for those who REFUSE to work??? Gimme a break.

Quote: AZDuffman

SUCKER!

:sigh:

Apparently, McDonald's has a website for employees called www.practicalmoneyskills.com


What's even better is the budget guidebook they give to their employees


What's even better than that is a holiday tipping guide informing their employees how they should tip their au pairs, pool cleaners, etc. LOL (the link is not from the McDonald's website because McDonald's took it down after CNBC reported on it)

Quote: aceofspades

I believe as the baby boomers age and pass away, self-checkout will become more of the norm. Asking senior citizens to comprehend self-checkout is a losing battle.

I'm not sure what you consider a senior. My age
group can't retire at full benefits till 66. Under 66
people are certainly familiar with technology, we
use it as much as anybody else. You must mean
the elderly, which is generally people over 75. The
head of the wine dept in my local grocery is 81 and
works 32 hours a week. He doesn't seem to be tech
handicapped, he's on the net and doing electronic
inventory all day. So I'm not sure who you meant.

Quote: EvenBob

I'm not sure what you consider a senior. My age
group can't retire at full benefits till 66. Under 66
people are certainly familiar with technology, we
use it as much as anybody else. You must mean
the elderly, which is generally people over 75. The
head of the wine dept in my local grocery is 81 and
works 32 hours a week. He doesn't seem to be tech
handicapped, he's on the net and doing electronic
inventory all day. So I'm not sure who you meant.

I was thinking 75+ (and yes Bob, there are exceptions)

Quote: aceofspades

I was thinking 75+ (and yes Bob, there are exceptions)

Right, there are always exceptions, but give the average 75-year old a task on the computer and the average 10-year old on the computer and generally see who finishes first. I am thinking this is about the betting line, fwiw.

Quote: AZDuffman

Here is where I see the difference in our opinions. You are of the belief that we need to make work more attractive so people get off welfare. I am of the belief that work is a requirement not an option.

If you are unemployable you need to do whatever you can to change that. This may mean taking a minimum wage job and getting some work experience under your belt. It may mean taking a trade apprenticeship or some kind of schooling. Probably it means both. However, what you cannot do is say, "a minimum wage job is not worth my trouble so I want other people to pay my way in life."

We probably need to re-open mental institutions for the homeless that have mental issues. Those that refuse to work (see the OWS crowd) sorry but too bad, get a job mopping floors. Anyone who does will not be the first.

I agree but will go further. Instead of making work more attractive so the people on welfare do us a favor and seek employment,. I am for making welfare LESS attractive making people want to seek employment. I am for making welfare a finate set of funds. Not an unlimied set of funds for a lifetime for able bodied people.

If people know their welfare benefits will be reduced 10 percent each year....there will come a time where they might take a job that previously they considered "beneath them" or "not worth their time".

they might actively seek a roomate to help them with expenses and child care.

they might actually give a crap, if every hour they work saves their pot of welfare money for future use should they really need it.

Quote: LarryS

I agree but will go further. Instead of making work more attractive so the people on welfare do us a favor and seek employment,. I am for making welfare LESS attractive making people want to seek employment. I am for making welfare a finate set of funds. Not an unlimied set of funds for a lifetime for able bodied people.

If people know their welfare benefits will be reduced 10 percent each year....there will come a time where they might take a job that previously they considered "beneath them" or "not worth their time".

they might actively seek a roomate to help them with expenses and child care.

they might actually give a crap, if every hour they work saves their pot of welfare money for future use should they really need it.

How about 25% a year…?

Quote: Mission146

I tend to doubt it if the penalty for theft is death.

well if the 15/hr rate increase is only doable in your mind if there is a death menatly for theives.......then I guess you are against the 15.hr increase.

thats like sayig that you are for obamacare as long as it doesnt adversely affect the heathcare of millions

Quote: aceofspades

Apparently, McDonald's has a website for employees called www.practicalmoneyskills.com


What's even better is the budget guidebook they give to their employees


What's even better than that is a holiday tipping guide informing their employees how they should tip their au pairs, pool cleaners, etc. LOL (the link is not from the McDonald's website because McDonald's took it down after CNBC reported on it)

That's actually pretty good advice. Good on McDonalds for putting that together.

The best book on that stuff I read was "Get a Financial Life." I can't remember the author. She was much, much better than Suze Orman. I hate her -- so patronizing.

Quote: boymimbo

I will go to a cashier over self-checkout anytime. Self-checkout is slower. The only time I go to self-checkout is when there are long lines and I know I'll be waiting. Adding self-checkouts will not improve efficiency.



Not at all. I never want to pump my own gas, and look forward to my next assignment in NJ when I can sit in my car and have my gas pumped for me. Who would prefer pumping their own gas? And I don't mind a salesperson from time-to-time, as long as there is no pressuring.



This is already happening with the race to the bottom. Health care prices are increasing so you see either the downloading or elimination of benefits and/or the conditions for full time employment. This is why the playing field needs to be evened out by evening out the cost of providing health care and increasing minimum wage.

Well I lived in NJ for 40 years and had professional gas pumpers pump my gas thousands of times. And I will imagine there are lonely people who like the interation. You know you pull into the station. Sit in your car and wait for a professional gas pumper to wall up to your window. There are other people being attended to so you wait your turn. After he is finsihed with the others before you, he. she will walk up to your window and ask what you need. You give them the cash or crdedit card and they set the pomp to pump your order...he'/ she walks away to get the enxt customer while your gas is pumping. You hear that your gas has stopped pumping and hope the professional gas pumper gets back to you as soonas possible. You being a lonely soul try to make conversation with some unane remark like "working hard or hardly working".......and the professional gas pumper smiles , hands you your receipt as says the words a lonly person longs to hear from a stranger........"have a nice day". A 3 mnute transaction any other state turns intoa 12 munute lovely ineraction for lonely people.

Meanwhile, more well adjusted people do like the fact they can get in and out of a gas station by pumping their own gas without having to wait for a professional gas pumper as dictated by the state law prohibiting customers from pumping their own gas. Alot of people like ATM's although when they first came out most were scared as hell getting money from a machine accurately and having the transaction recorded accurately. But now its no big deal. There will be a learning curve for self service registers. They dont say "have a nice day" and they dont comment on your purchases with comments like "these cookies are so good'. or "i wish i can buy these baked beans but they give me gas". You can get out faster, you can bag things together in the same bag, the way you like. And you dont have to wait for the backup to occur when u get in a line where someone has an item without a upc scan tag, or the customer ahead of u swears the shelf says a different price than what is rung up, or the customer ahead of you just got off the alien hovercraft and doesnt know how to slide a credit/debit card. or the person ahead of you doesnt have enough money and asks the cashier to start taking items back. None of that at all....just out in a couple minutes when u are ready to leave....and the self service also allows you to get cash back....just like with a regular cashier.

But I agree...for lonely people who look foward to others pumping their gas...there is nothing like interacting with a cashier.

I am sure there are people like yourtself that got a nervous breakdown the first time you had to use one of those newfangled self serve soft drink machines at fast food places.

Quote: boymimbo

I will go to a cashier over self-checkout anytime. Self-checkout is slower. The only time I go to self-checkout is when there are long lines and I know I'll be waiting. Adding self-checkouts will not improve efficiency.

This just hit me. For those who think self-checkout will not become the norm, just look at the history of the entire grocery store. 100 years ago you walked up to a counter and the clerk asked for your order. Bread, milk, butter you would say and they got the items for you. Eventually someone got the idea that you could just let the customers pick their own items off the shelves. Within a generation this was the only way stores worked.

I can see the day where you may pay a small "convenience fee" to use a cashier just as some low-end stores are charging for bags today. The net margin on a grocery store can be 1-2% so every nickel counts. It will happen anyways, but raising the minimum wage will just make it happen faster. So instead of little Susie getting an after-school job as a cashier at Piggly-Wiggly she will have to compete for fewer available jobs.

Quote: LarryS

where someone has an item without a upc scan tag, or the customer ahead of u swears the shelf says a different price than what is rung up, or the customer ahead of you just got off the alien hovercraft and doesn't know how to slide a credit/debit card. or the person ahead of you doesn't have enough money and asks the cashier to start taking items back.

Larry, you and I must shop at the same places because every time I'm in a checkout line, it sure seems all of the above occurs....Idiots.

Quote: AZDuffman

This just hit me. For those who think self-checkout will not become the norm, just look at the history of the entire grocery store. 100 years ago you walked up to a counter and the clerk asked for your order. Bread, milk, butter you would say and they got the items for you. Eventually someone got the idea that you could just let the customers pick their own items off the shelves. Within a generation this was the only way stores worked.

Yep, and I find it so ironic that "forward" thinking progressives/liberals can't even see the obvious. They think there's no way to combat theft and paper jams at self-checkout stations...lol

Quote: LarryS

I am sure there are people like yourtself that got a nervous breakdown the first time you had to use one of those newfangled self serve soft drink machines at fast food places.

Sanitation is always an issues at those self-serve machines especially where refills are allowed and people are drinking without lids. Think about it. Those handles get germs really quick.

And yeah, I still prefer someone else pumping my gas for me, especially in shitty weather.

It has nothing to do with loneliness, but thanks for the assumptions.

Quote: Beethoven9th

Yep, and I find it so ironic that "forward" thinking progressives/liberals can't even see the obvious. They think there's no way to combat theft and paper jams at self-checkout stations...lol

Exactly.

theft has always been calculated and included in the prices we pay. Every year retailers have a physical inventory, and calculate how much inventory is missing when calculating what came in vs what went out thru the register. With that number as a chain they can figure out how to recouope that money. So if the average store is missing 100k in inventory each year, that 100k is recouped in price add ons. Price add ons that are often undetectable. For grocery items that are well know and compareable....maybe they lay off increasing food items. But for clothing....who knows if a item shouldbe 9.50 or 9.99. Who really can say whether a pair of sneakers hould be 15.99 or 16.99. And thats where they can make up the cost of theft thru the self service registers, through shop lifting, and through internal employee theft.

We pay for it, so there is no worry as far as the company is concerned regarding theft at the self serve register.

If someone has a cart full of bread, chesse, egs and coke....they are not getting a ulcer if an item doesnt get scanned. If someone has a cart full of electronics....then the cashier over seeig the area would probably be instructed to pay attention to that cart

either way, the self serve registers have been increasing over the years....so I have to assume they are working out well financially


you are rght about clerk serve vs self serve...as little as 35 years ago I interned in an indpendent pharmacy where a clerk picked everything off the shelf for the customer. People have voted...they dont need customer service, the dont ened a phoney "have a nice day" they dont need expertise that they can self research on the internet. They just want a selection to choose from and prodicts be in stock. We will get it from the retailer to our home without a middleman(clerk). Thats what internet sales are all about. Its all about just getting the damn product without expensive unneeded personal interaction

Bestbuy to me is Amazon's storehouse as I'm concerned. I look for things I want at the store, then look it up online as its usually cheaper on amazon or newegg. I like to see the physical item but I can wait 2 days for a significant savings. I never ask a rep for help, they are less knowledable than I am about every purchase when it comes to electronics.

Quote: LarryS

We will get it from the retailer to our home without a middleman(clerk). Thats what internet sales are all about.

Ah, another excellent point. I can totally envision a day when most people will simply go online and have groceries delivered to their front door. If/When that happens, then where will all the whining minimum wage workers be?

I guess they'd have to learn some real job skills to get by.....which is what they should actually be doing RIGHT NOW.

Quote: djatc

Bestbuy to me is Amazon's storehouse as I'm concerned. I look for things I want at the store, then look it up online as its usually cheaper on amazon or newegg. I like to see the physical item but I can wait 2 days for a significant savings. I never ask a rep for help, they are less knowledable than I am about every purchase when it comes to electronics.

And this is why its so stupid where every year the news covers sotries of retail workers complaining that they are working holidays or working later hours.

The competition is open 24/7...and the comepetitionis the internet.

So get used to working later, get used to working harder, and working holidays.....cause the highly automated, no frills internet is draining local retail sales....and doing it by offering price and convenience

Quote: LarryS

And this is why its so stupid where every year the news covers sotries of retail workers complaining that they are working holidays or working later hours.

The competition is open 24/7...and the comepetitionis the internet.

So get used to working later, get used to working harder, and working holidays.....cause the highly automated, no frills internet is draining local retail sales....and doing it by offering price and convenience

And some times, no sales tax. And some times free shipping...save gas, don't leave the house.

Quote: LarryS

And this is why its so stupid where every year the news covers sotries of retail workers complaining that they are working holidays or working later hours

+1 again

It always irritates me whenever I hear these types of complaints. If a person doesn't like working on holidays, shouldn't that be motivation enough to start looking for a job where you DON'T have to do so??? Or to acquire better job skills so that you can get a better job? People like this make me do a *facepalm*

Every public assistance program has some negative effect:

Federally guaranteed student loans: when colleges know you can get guaranteed loans with very little credit requirements (because the federal gov't guarantees the loans, protects them from bankruptcy, and statutorily sets the interest rate to 6.8%), they just increase the price of an education.

FHA mortgages: artificially inflate the price of houses. They used to let sellers "donate" money to a non-profit, who would then "grant" the money to the buyer to cover the down payment and closing costs. Where did this money come from? Artificially high selling prices... and a bubble.

Minimum wage: higher unemployment, kids who don't know the value of a dollar. Hell, I'm not too old, but I even delivered newspapers as a kid.

Welfare: why become self sufficient when it pays more, or near the same with zero effort, to stay at home?

My grandmother grew up during the great depression and she says that nobody is poor anymore. She didn't grow up feeling sorry for herself; she did what she had to do to get herself out of poverty.

Quote: CrystalMath

Every public assistance program has some negative effect:

Federally guaranteed student loans: when colleges know you can get guaranteed loans with very little credit requirements (because the federal gov't guarantees the loans, protects them from bankruptcy, and statutorily sets the interest rate to 6.8%), they just increase the price of an education.

FHA mortgages: artificially inflate the price of houses. They used to let sellers "donate" money to a non-profit, who would then "grant" the money to the buyer to cover the down payment and closing costs. Where did this money come from? Artificially high selling prices... and a bubble.

Minimum wage: higher unemployment, kids who don't know the value of a dollar. Hell, I'm not too old, but I even delivered newspapers as a kid.

Welfare: why become self sufficient when it pays more, or near the same with zero effort, to stay at home?

My grandmother grew up during the great depression and she says that nobody is poor anymore. She didn't grow up feeling sorry for herself; she did what she had to do to get herself out of poverty.

I totally agree about how the govt screwed up the cost of education by offering 100k to almost anyone who asks. So universitys know alotof people have a potential 100 k in their pockets when they apply....and there you go....magically 100k for 4 years is the new base cost.

It even lead to the springing up of schools that take advantage of lower income people. There are "beauty schools" tha tpop up, and help the people get the govt loans for 50k , 60k, 100k......and charge that for a couple years of training that used to be taught for 3k in 6 months. Then these people exit the school with their diploma which is worthless.... they see jobs for 10 dollars an hour, and they have 100k loan to pay off.

Quote: Beethoven9th

+1 again

It always irritates me whenever I hear these types of complaints. If a person doesn't like working on holidays, shouldn't that be motivation enough to start looking for a job where you DON'T have to do so??? Or to acquire better job skills so that you can get a better job? People like this make me do a *facepalm*

I have to agree, that's why I spend Christmas in Vegas, the whole town works , everything is open. I love it.
On the flip side, because everybody is working, I tend to over tip on Christmas.
I generally leave my hotel maid 2 bucks a day tip, on Christmas, probably leave a 10 or 20 depending on how much I have won or lost recently.