It isn't that I don't trust you, but it would be nice for the benefit of the forum if you could post an unedited video of you holding a current newspaper and then stepping on a scale. My brother in Long Beach can also testify as to your starting weight, if you have any reason to head down that way.
Who would wager on someone's survival if they were to go to battle, or on the outcome of a life-saving surgery, or if some gay co-ed would attempt suicide if sufficiently badgered? At some point, wagers become obscene, and a decent person would not consider such a wager ... Wizard, have you truly considered the ethical consequences of your financial engagement with this individual by wagering on her physical health, when her mental health is so unclear? You are old enough to know better, Mr. W. ... if you want, we can bet on an over/under for Mandela to live.Quote: HotBlondeIt looks like the Wizard and SOOPOO may be the only two betting against me
--Ms. D.
Quote: DorothyGaleAt what point, I wonder, does a wager become obscene? For example, who would wager on someone's survival if they were to go to battle, or on the outcome of a life-saving surgery, or if some gay co-ed would attempt suicide if sufficiently badgered? At some point, wagers become obscene, and a decent person would not consider such a wager ... Wizard, have you truly considered the ethical consequences of your financial engagement with this individual by wagering on her physical health, when her mental health is so unclear?
--Ms. D.
I understand your concerns.... but in THIS case, NOT wagering has let HB start on a RIDICULOUSLY unhealthy lifestyle, gaining 35 pounds or so in less than two months! So, Dorothy, what do you think will happen to HB if this bet doesn't go through? I can't say for sure either way... and neither can you... I can only say for sure that she was likely at her healthiest at the end of HBC1. It is not like she starved herself... she had a well thought out diet and exercise plan... and it worked... I think the same thing may happen again... I would say to you, DG, what are the ethical consequences of NOT giving this soul the incentive she needs to start eating healthy and exercising again?
Quote: SOOPOONOT wagering has let HB start on a RIDICULOUSLY unhealthy lifestyle ...
So what are you going to do, keep throwing money at her until she learns how to eat like a normal human being?
Quote: SOOPOOshe had a well thought out diet and exercise plan... and it worked... I think the same thing may happen again...
... and again and again and again and again ...
Apparently HB's incentive lasts only as long as the money does. As I said before, if she put one-tenth as much thought into a healthy maintenance plan as she does into these weight-dropping marathons, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
I hope since there are only two of you in this silly wager this time -- and that's two too many AFAIC -- that you can keep it to a PM discussion and not bother the rest of us with it any more.
Quote: tsmith
I hope since there are only two of you in this silly wager this time -- and that's two too many AFAIC -- that you can keep it to a PM discussion and not bother the rest of us with it any more.
If you are bothered by this thread... DO NOT READ IT!!!! I mean, seriously, if it bothers you why do you continually read it, and continually comment? I am sure there are many (most) of the members who have no interest... so THEY DO NOT READ IT! I can assure you I don't open threads that do not interest me to tell the posters I am not interested!!!!
Quite pathetic of you, actually....
In other words, you believe HB is so unable to care for herself, so inadequate at the basic tools for eating right and exercising, that her only possible way to health is to put herself in the spotlight in the midst of a group of people, many of whom she knows in advance do not like her, and that you, by understanding all of this, believe you are doing an act of generosity and kindness by motivating her through this co-dependent wagering-relationship the two of you have, and that you also believe that it is better to lose and gain and lose (again) weight at light-speed than to get counseling for underlying issues and let the weight follow ... and ... and ... really?Quote: SOOPOOwhat are the ethical consequences of NOT giving this soul the incentive she needs to start eating healthy and exercising again?
The single best service YOU could do to HB is to refuse her bet and encourage her to get counseling ... same for Mr. W. ... put pressure on her to do something that matters ... something that could really aid her health ... instead of betting on her ... it's obscene, it's shameful ... shame ...
-- Ms. D.
It is not pathetic to actually care for a person ... instead of wagering, like you, on the pendulum of their psychological imbalance ... shame ...Quote: SOOPOOQuite pathetic of you, actually....
-- Ms. D.
Quote: DorothyGaleWizard, have you truly considered the ethical consequences of your financial engagement with this individual by wagering on her physical health, when her mental health is so unclear? You are old enough to know better, Mr. W. ....
Be careful there, Dorothy. Who holds in his hands your chances of getting back home?
First, I already offered the wager, and I'm not going to reneg on it. Maybe criticism is fair for offering in the first place, which I'll accept.
Second, those who know me well can attest that I'll be on almost anything. However, I have declined to wager on things that I thought would incentivize bad behavior or were in very bad taste. Let's look at your examples:
Q: For example, who would wager on someone's survival if they were to go to battle?
Only in a situation where I was basically offering life insurance to the one going into battle, which is a legitimate service. For entertainment purposes, I draw the line at betting on people dying.
Q: or on the outcome of a life-saving surgery?
See above. I asked a doctor once if surgeons ever gamble on the outcome of very dicey surguries. He said they often will bet a Coke, or something like that. I could see doing that.
Q: or if some gay co-ed would attempt suicide if sufficiently badgered?
Absolutely not.
Q: if you want, we can bet on an over/under for Mandela to live
Nah, unless he asked me to.
Third, I'm betting to incentivize HB to LOSE weight. Health is very correlated to low body weight. Buzz just pointed out the heart has to work a lot harder to lug around a lot of extra pounds, which is true. I wouldn't be working out every day if I didn't believe that. My weight would be pushing 200 if I didn't. Despite what some have suggested, I higly doubt HB put on all that weight to win $750. Whatever her demons are, and we all have some, I think she will be happier and more confident at a healthy body weight.
I bet against people to lose weight and quit smoking all the time. A friend of mine is quitting smoking on 1/1/13 and I have a $500 bet he won't last a year. I hope to lose that bet, and that my wager motivates him to stick with it. Same thing with HB. I hope to lose the bet and see her healthier and happier in May.
I find it rather ironic that it is two men who are in HB's corner, egging her on, while two women are trying desperately to make you see how wrong this whole thing is.
I cower to no one ... but in this case ... okay:Quote: WizardBe careful there, Dorothy. Who holds in his hands your chances of getting back home?
<humbly bow>Mr. W.</humbly bow>
... I do want to go home, after all ... I've said what I wanted to say ... I'm outta this one ... Kansas has a lot of dirt left to sweep and I'm just about fed up with this old broom ...
--Ms. D.
Quote: tsmithI hope since there are only two of you in this silly wager this time -- and that's two too many AFAIC -- that you can keep it to a PM discussion and not bother the rest of us with it any more.
Let me make a radical suggestion. If you don't like the topic then BLOCK the thread.
Quote: WizardLet me make a radical suggestion. If you don't like the topic then BLOCK the thread.
Thank you oh voice of reason.
I am not betting this time. Just because the line is more like 1 to 5 on HB. Considering the obstacles she overcame lat time, both physical and emotional, I know a winner when I see one. I will be 73 years old on May 16. Do not be surprised if HB has already hit 135 by then.
if you're referring to DorothyGale as the other "woman" please stand corrected. DorothyGale is the handle of a gay man, obviously someone wishing he was a woman so due to his large amount of rage chooses to post as a woman on a fun and friendly gambling site and bash real women. I'm sorry, Dorothy, that you're jealous that I have REAL female anatomy! How sad of you to pretend.Quote: tsmithI find it rather ironic that it is two men who are in HB's corner, egging her on, while two women are trying desperately to make you see how wrong this whole thing is.
Quote: HotBlondeI'm actually quite surprised people have been fooled this long thinking DorothyGale is an actual woman. And is isn't WongBo your partner? Just sayin'.
WongBo's gay? I figured as much.
Quote: HotBlondeI'm sorry, Dorothy, that you're jealous that I have REAL female anatomy! How sad of you to pretend.
If the Wizard can give the Tinman a heart and the Scarecrow a brain, he can give Dorothy a real life vagina.
Quote: WizardMy finger is already on the "ban" button.
It appears to have had a minor twitch. I expect many more, based on the history of this topic.
Quote: HotBlondeif you're referring to DorothyGale as the other "woman" please stand corrected. DorothyGale is the handle of a gay man...
I'm shocked, shocked, to find this out. My life will never be the same.
Wiz, although my post suggests that the gain was intentional, I don't actually believe that. It doesn't pass the sniff test. Nevertheless, it also does not add up. If I'd read that she's gained 10 lbs, that would make sense. 30 or 35? Something is wrong.
I think of this differently on different nights. I think Dorothy is pretty accurate. But I also think that Hot Blonde recognizes her issues and is using one to cure the other. If she can use the positive/negative attention to motivate herself, it's really neither here nor there. If it happens again, so what. In the end, 130 years from now no one will care.
*eats popcorn, pets cat*
Bread and circuses, by thunder!
Quote: MrVThis thread is devolving into a train wreck.
Yep.
Stay tuned for sentencing.
A three day makes you cool, but the nuclear option is bad 'cuz you miss recess. Amirite?
Quote: WizardShe is asking for wagers on losing 45 pounds (roughly 180 to 135) in 4 months, which is 11.25 pounds per month.
She could easily win this bet if she lost 25 lbs of fat and muscle over 4 months (only 6.25 lbs per month) and cut 20 lbs of water weight in a sauna the day of the weigh-in.
Most UFC fighters cut about 20 lbs of water weight in one day in order to make weight for the official weigh-in that's 24 hours before their fight. Some are insane enough to cut over 30 lbs, if you can believe that.
To make this bet legit, HotBlonde should have to lose 45 lbs of PURE FAT. Her body fat percentage could easily be measured by a licensed trainer at a gym with body calipers.
Quote: WizardStay tuned for sentencing.
I should know better than to ask (hell, i do), but how long will Dorothy be suspended for trolling?
Come on, she was doing nothing so much like trying to get a reaction from HB.
Quote: WizardDespite what some have suggested, I higly doubt HB put on all that weight to win $750. Whatever her demons are, and we all have some, I think she will be happier and more confident at a healthy body weight.
I tend to agree with this. I don't think HB gained the weight back on purpose to purposely game more gamblers out of more money.
Personally, I'm a little sad for HB that she put 30 pounds back on so quickly. Being one of the few forum members to have met her in person, she looked great at 150 and I don't think she needed to lose any more at that point - but I digress.
I'm a little torn about whether to participate in this challenge. I want to drop $100 on the even-money bet, but I really want to incentivize HB to keep the weight off.
Quote: RaleighCrapsIf the bettors were serious about helping HB gain a healthier life, then the bet would not only be to attain 135 lbs by May 29, but also KEEP the weight below 140 through June and July. Then you have truly accomplished a life style change.
I think this would be great. The bet would have two parts:
1) Get to 135 by May 29th or whatever
2) MAINTAIN a weight of 135, to be measured again on July 29th or July 31st or something.
I tend to think even money is about right for part 1, but for the whole potato, I'm not sure what fair odds would be (I'm don't have a lot of experience in setting lines). We know HB is proficient at losing weight on schedule when money is involved, but we also know she is prone to backsliding. Would she be better at not backsliding if money were still on the line?
I think fair odds might be 2-1. I would tentatively bet $100 to win $50. SOOPOO, Wizard, MakingBook, any opinions?
HB, would you be open to this challenge? I just don't feel like I can encourage the yo-yo dieting lifestyle.
I realize HB is on unspecified suspension, so perhaps this will have to wait. If the Wiz and SOOPOO are already on board for the main challenge as described, I might be too late.
Also, I would like to echo the Wizard's comments that a starting picture with scale/newspaper/etc. would be required before I would agree to a new bet.
Quote: RaleighCrapsIf the bettors were serious about helping HB gain a healthier life, then the bet would not only be to attain 135 lbs by May 29, but also KEEP the weight below 140 through June and July. Then you have truly accomplished a life style change.
Here's a quote from the top bettor/organizer:
"My involvement here is for my personal enjoyment."
Aces- just get on board for the main challenge... even money at $100. After the challenge starts we can get into sub-bets.
I have always wondered about DG, and asked the Wiz specifically...... He would not answer citing WoV confidentiality.
I do agree with Aces about scale/newspaper/photo, which I suggested before the Wiz, too.
I like Raleigh craps' idea, but I want to get the main challenge done, first.
Quote: 1BBHere's a quote from the top bettor/organizer:
"My involvement here is for my personal enjoyment."
1BB- my enjoyment has come in knowing I helped someone achieve something remarkable.
I have received the same enjoyment in a stop smoking type bet.... I bet against the person and was thrilled when I lost.
And I am not the top bettor, the Wiz is. I'm in for $250, the Wiz is in for $500.
Quote: drjohnnyShe could easily win this bet if she lost 25 lbs of fat and muscle over 4 months (only 6.25 lbs per month) and cut 20 lbs of water weight in a sauna the day of the weigh-in.
Most UFC fighters cut about 20 lbs of water weight in one day in order to make weight for the official weigh-in that's 24 hours before their fight. Some are insane enough to cut over 30 lbs, if you can believe that.
To make this bet legit, HotBlonde should have to lose 45 lbs of PURE FAT. Her body fat percentage could easily be measured by a licensed trainer at a gym with body calipers.
A legitimate concern. The original challenge had a 'NO diuretic' clause, and I will ask HB if she will allow that for HBC2. It is my fault I did not mention that originally, but the bet has not been finalized until we see pictures/scale/newspaper.
I don't know if you saw the original thread... but look at the before and after pictures if you want to see the fat she lost.
Body fat percentage, although important, is not the subject of this bet.
Quote: AcesAndEights
I think this would be great. The bet would have two parts:
1) Get to 135 by May 29th or whatever
2) MAINTAIN a weight of 135, to be measured again on July 29th or July 31st or something.
I think fair odds might be 2-1. I would tentatively bet $100 to win $50. SOOPOO, Wizard, MakingBook, any opinions?
HB, would you be open to this challenge? I just don't feel like I can encourage the yo-yo dieting lifestyle.
I would personally advise a bet at Even Money ONLY in this case, and possibly not even then. We're basically talking about people wanting to make bets that HB can do something that she has essentially already done, so to me, the correct line would start out with HB laying 2:1 or something like that.
I don't even think this secondary July 31st date should move the Line to Even Money, but perhaps should just see HB laying 1.5:1 as opposed to 2:1. The reason is that I simply don't see this second date as much of a game-changer. Either way, you still have a specific set goal at a specific set stopping point...essentially, whatever diet/exercise regimen causes the weight to fall of by May 29th should just be continued, in full, until one reaches the second date.
I think that any further bets premised upon this would be silly on the part of those betting against HB because she has shown that she can lose astronomical amounts of weight when sufficiently...motivated. This bet merely proposes that she do the same thing twice.
If I wanted to get this to Even Money, what I would do is set the weight goal for May 29th, then provided that goal is met, anytime between 5/29/2013 and 12/31/2013, you could request a weigh-in (up to three times) in which HB's weight would have to be provided, pursuant to an agreed upon source, within 12-24 hours. If HB is under during all three of these random (to her) requests, she wins, if not, she loses.
Even then I doubt I would go Even Money because the other party has full control over her body, and hence, the bet, but that would get it a little closer.
If we're going to do just one set date again, I think HB should be laying.
Quote: 1BBThis should be made into a movie. Patton Oswalt as SOOPOO, Joe Pesci as Buzz and EvenBob as himself but in silhouette only, per order of the Witness Protection Program. Any suggestions for the rest of the cast? Kirstie Alley, Carnie Wilson, Chaz Bono, John Cryer, William Hung, Jason Alexander, Whitney Cummings as European Hottie? I know, I know but Mila Kunis was busy.
Dibs on Sandra Bullock. If she went blonde for The Blind Side she can lighten up for me, too!
(Okay, people say I look like Renee Zellweger sometimes but I don't care for her...)
Meanwhile, I consider the bet agreed up on in general principle, but pending the details. Hopefully those can be negotiated outside of the site. I think the same general rules as last time are fine.
Quote: MrVThis thread is devolving into a train wreck.
*eats popcorn, pets cat*
Bread and circuses, by thunder!
Perhaps or perhaps it's going exactly as planned.
Quote: NareedCome on, she was doing nothing so much like trying to get a reaction from HB.
If I gave out suspensions for that I would be banning people on a daily basis.
Will Scott be banned from attending the weigh-in?
Yes -140
No +120
Will HB threaten to send her brother to "beat up" any forum members?
Yes -280
No +230
Will there be an HB vs Dorthy Gale cage match (MMA style) on the Vegas strip after the weigh-in?
Yes +6000
No -9000
Quote: 1BBPerhaps or perhaps it's going exactly as planned.
The human race has a long history of enjoying spectacle.
Quote: NareedI should know better than to ask (hell, i do), but how long will Dorothy be suspended for trolling?
Come on, she was doing nothing so much like trying to get a reaction from HB.
I just reread Dorothy's posts and it's quite obvious to me that she has done nothing but express concern for a fellow human being. Disliking something does not make it trolling.
Quote: WizardIf I gave out suspensions for that I would be banning people on a daily basis.
True.
On the other hand, most people don't try to get a reaction from somene else by means of unwarranted personal attacks, and posts about how the targetis mentally ill. What DG did is mean-spirited and malicious.