RNG = REALLY???
Quote: MADMANJOEWALL OF TEXT
Just a friendly piece of advice, you might want to utilize more paragraph breaks when you type out a long post. It makes it much easier to read.
Quote: MADMANJOEThe saying always comes to mind as to know your audience. We just wanted to know a few answers to a few questions and at the time we all checked out some of the threads here and found to be there are a few experts here.
To defend is fruitless to some degree without another shot at me. But to defend I will state this and it is simply put, in my World, failure or a hiccup can cost a life. The rigors of testing becomes paramount with work arounds with numerous backups for the Rick Management teams to analyze and insure all bases are covered, although of course statistics can always haunt ones thoughts as to was enough done to insure safety was built in. This can of course means that the laws of statistical analysys will also lead one into a court of law to defend and lose if any sort of negligence was at play. One could care less if a product, or robot, or laser was robust enough to overcome a set of variables. In a court of law the other side of the aisle so to speak will also bring in their expert witness with degrees out the wazoo and claim not so. If corporate America makes a claim of efficiency or advertising and it doesn't add up, off one goes to court as well. Of course OEE and PM's vs. CM's will prove what can be deemed the obvious, and yet if Loss of Productivity is real to any extent, once again fines and courts can become invloved. Simply stating Infant Mortality was the direct cause of this or that, sure is not going to cut it. If a bakery line adds too much frosting on a cake, even that can and will be challenged as to was there a flaw in the analog sensors or developed program which cost us xxxx dollars to our P&L. To an investor to a casino that owns several thousand shares, to state its the economy stupid, would not be a cure to his finacial position as an investor. AND of course math IS important because it can be in countless examples I can give and as known, both a help and a nightmare. So that said, a hickup in a game is OK with me and I am sure someone can crunch the numbers and say all 7 of us guys hit a glitch in either the program or nature of the machines. Fine with me, was just a question.........although in my world there is NO room for a stall or glitch. Or on the next jet ride, do you whip out your book of statistcs and say it was mathematically possible as you hold the book to the window so I can see it and achnowledge it is feasable? I am sure the jury will say you are right and throw the case out. Or the guy who purposely locked himself in a control cabinet and flipped the ON switch to ON and fried himself to prove it could be done at the expense of forever losing feeling in his left arm........and the jury made him win the Lotto based on it never should have been possible to do.
I labored the point that we all go just to have fun and was curious on a few things. And the banner threw us unless (which we had no idea) the machines could be not set over a lifetime, but rather set loose for those that like small payouts, and alot of them. But over the life of a machine? Then I would think someone someday will question it as misleading. For me to quantify anything means one needs to know if in fact programs can be changed, or ordered like that from the factory of origin. Granted every Casino has their operating costs and some may not need as much to support the overhead. Again just a question. I do not expect a slot machine to be bullet proof so to speak in all realms of its designs like we have to go through, and sometimes Marketing/Sales will pressure to put machines out prematurely and not allow the Engineers to test accordingly......again, found it ironic it could happen as it did happen to all of us and it was Singapore. I have no doubt Casinos have a great IT department and Math gurus and perhaps a staff of Engineers pouring over the scenerios of possible outcomes. Of course some will say read up on it and ask others, but of course if hitting a moving target is the challenge, as Chuck said......Good Luck. I know as well personally and surrounded by fellow Engineers that some are so intelligent it is remarkable, and yet find flaws in watching sports due to human error so why watch a football game. Though this same person does cube roots in his head faster than one can punch a keyboard or operate a calculator 5 digits out. It makes him no less an Engineer to see flaws in sports, that is his thinking. He finds no pleasure in watching us gamble at a slot, but enjoys the small talk. In my case, I do tend to question the validity of a sign vs. what I have just seen, or if a machine does something unexpected, I ask why. In my world, flaws will never be tolerated and by rights this should be so and dismissal would be the outcome. In a lights out factory with robots with vision and little intervention of any sorts, and lasers that are powerful, yet accurate.....there is no room for error. Imagine a robot losing servo feedback and decides to take on a life of its own, I rest my case on the very real outcome. NO I do not expect all machines to be flawless. It was just a question.
I have been told many times that slot odds are worse than playing blackjack or what ever, and perhaps one can crunch that and say either way depending on the slot machine it can or not be true. My wife can produce many reciepts on her percieved notion that the programs change between a single coin vs. multiple coins on the same machine......I live watching it and most times hard to say different. But I did ask and the answer was it is illegal to do...OK.... This is the same woman that bought Apple stock when it was going pretty close to under (Many years ago) and bought shall we say a ton of it, and recently popped out towards the top.
I am I feel smart enough to learn the game Craps, but frankly a slot machine with graphics these days proves to me to be enjoyable......although when I hear the screaming of joy from the crap tables, I wonder what I am missing......my loss as I smile. The Venetian to me is a great place and the hotel is amazing....and then there are others that tell me to play off the strip because those machines are too tight.....my fault I guess for not digging into the facts to get the answers, but all the same.......I at least will continue to play the slots there and enjoy the atmosphere there. I do apologize if I insulted anyone, it was never my true intent.
I am a gambler as a get-away recreation.
Thanks again.
Quote: tringlomaneBecause the machine with the 97.5% return has symbol probabilities that are better than the 95.6% version. For example, the 97.5% version may have 1 extra Wild symbol in one of the reels than the 95.6% version. Adding a wild will certainly increase the game's return. Conversely, removing lower paying symbols (which in turn increases the hit probabilities of all other symbols) will also typically increase the game's return. If I'm looking at the correct game, this means removing "turntables" and "music awards" from the reels.
Thought so, but was not sure. Well, this means that Microgaming powered video slots CAN BE modified at online casinos owners will.
And if so, I guess they are also able to alter it at will say for week-ends to have a pay-back at 90% instead of advertised 95.6%, right?
I am thinking, who will be able to prove that there is some sort of cheating.. we hardly can at a blackjack game, but slots variance .. ?
Quote: PlayHunterAnd if so, I guess they are also able to alter it at will say for week-ends to have a pay-back at 90% instead of advertised 95.6%, right?
I am thinking, who will be able to prove that there is some sort of cheating.. we hardly can at a blackjack game, but slots variance .. ?
Casinos make floor changes regularly, and it's not cheating at all. As long as both models are pre-approved by regulators, swapping between them is commonplace. These days, all the tech needs to do is turn a key and select a different model. And in newer casinos, changes can be made remotely. For example, the Aria is using IGT's sbX system for remote game management:
http://www.casinoenterprisemanagement.com/articles/may-2011/demystifying-server-based-gaming
http://media.igt.com/marketing/PromotionalLiterature/IGT_Systems_sbX_Floor_Manager.pdf
Quote: PlayHunterThought so, but was not sure. Well, this means that Microgaming powered video slots CAN BE modified at online casinos owners will.
And if so, I guess they are also able to alter it at will say for week-ends to have a pay-back at 90% instead of advertised 95.6%, right?
I am thinking, who will be able to prove that there is some sort of cheating.. we hardly can at a blackjack game, but slots variance .. ?
For slots there are usually a few different available settings for casino owners. For the particular game we are discussing, it's very likely that a 97.5% version exists as well as a 95.6%. Other versions may exist for them as well which may very well be lower. If they are actively advertising the payback, it probably is the payback they state unless they think it's a good idea to lie to their customers, which I would like to think Microgaming casinos would not. If an online casino doesn't state the payback, however, it should be assumed that they have the right to adjust the payouts whenever they see fit. And some of those machine versions may be closer to 90% like you suggest.
To prove the payback they offer...it's not super simple, one basically has to sample the game and try to reverse engineer the reel patterns like the Wizard did for "Jackpot Party" and other slots.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/slots/jackpot-party/
I designed a game using a random number generator (RNG). I invited Buzz over to play the game, mainly because he's so ornery. He played the game 100 times, of which he won 98 times, and lost 2 times. So, of the $100 he bet, he ended up with $98 and walked away. As such, I put up a sign indicating my game returns 98%, as that is exactly what happened.
Quote: konceptumI hate adding fuel to the fire.... Oh, who am I kidding, I love it.
I designed a game using a random number generator (RNG). I invited Buzz over to play the game, mainly because he's so ornery. He played the game 100 times, of which he won 98 times, and lost 2 times. So, of the $100 he bet, he ended up with $98 and walked away. As such, I put up a sign indicating my game returns 98%, as that is exactly what happened.
I enjoyed playing an honest game. I am now seeking compensation for my endorsement. I will be over to collect. After dark !
Damn, to pay for the endorsement, I'm going to have to change my game to only return 97%.Quote: BuzzardI enjoyed playing an honest game. I am now seeking compensation for my endorsement. I will be over to collect. After dark !
Here is a 2 minute video, At the end you will see Gene Gioia explaining it. He lives in Denver and he and i have exchanged some emails over the years. He had poker website in UK, he paid endorsement fees to Boxing Champion Hofifield, " The Real Deal "
It attracted about 100 -200 USA players who knew all other poker rooms had RIGGED RNGS. The site only lasted a few months as players decided his shuffling machine was rigged. LOL
http://www.mynews3.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoID=4373877
