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rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 11:26:07 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Freedom does not mean equal outcomes.


Sure, but it does mean equal access. Which is lacking from your system.

Quote: AZDuffman

The ussr tried "to each according to his needs" and all they got was poverty and starvation.



Also, that's not all the USSR got. Some became incredibly wealthy while others got the poverty and starvation. Hey, that sounds familiar. What's happening here again??
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 11:26:10 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Why should either of them go to the front of the line?



Romney should run on that idea. Show Donald Trump getting a heart while some kid dies, because Trump outbid the kid's family.


Normally, sickest get help first, even now.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 11:28:41 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine


Normally, sickest get help first, even now.



Shhhhh...you're making too much sense! We shouldn't work to avoid needless suffering if there's a way to make more money via a different method!
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:10:19 PM permalink
Quote: estebanrey

As a Brit I'll never understand the opposition to national healthcare



How about this? 90% of the people in Scotland receive
more in benefits from the UK gov't than they pay in
taxes. How long do you think thats sustainable? How
long before you run out of other peoples money, as
Thatcher said. You talk about scared, thats pretty damn
scary.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:23:16 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

It is called freedom and a free market. Why should you not get a house you want because you are outbid? Just because it is "health care" makes no difference.



I would claim it does, and health care is a very different service than a house. And we are always going to disagree on that.

Quote:

A decision for the stockholders, not the government.



Indeed, and there in lies the problem... you don't have the freedom from government interference for it to be a stockholder decision even in the current system. Plus health care is not a simple good where one dose of health care is equal to another at a later date. Time and outcomes are important. Much like a fire service, having access to health care NOW is different from having access in 6 months.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
estebanrey
estebanrey
Joined: Oct 4, 2012
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:28:16 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: estebanrey

As a Brit I'll never understand the opposition to national healthcare you get from large parts of the American right wing. The thought of losing the NHS would scare the hell out of me. I also don't understand why the word 'socialism' is used as an pejorative word in the States either; where I'm from it's just a political viewpoint you can either agree or disagree with. Nor is it an all or nothing like a lot of [paranoid] Americans seem to be (from reading this thread), you can have 'socialised' healthcare alongside private healthcare, nor does having national healthcare mean you're suddenly going to turn into communist China.

Life and health are a human right and shouldn't be dependent on how rich you are. The NHS prioritises by need, the US health system seems to prioritise by the wealth of the patient which is wrong is my opinion.



The part about "prioritize by need" is the scary part. Who is to say who needs what more?



Um medical science. A heart transplant gets done before an ingrowing toenail, it's not rocket science.

Quote: AZDuffman

To allow people to pay for what they want themselves is most fair. Why should I go without when I am inv to pay just because some burr rat somewhere says someone else 'needs' it more?



'Some burr rat', nice to see your attitude to your fellow man.

Quote: AZDuffman

Socialism is a dirty word here because we know socialism destroys wealth and initiative while sapping freedom.



Sapping freedom? In the UK you can use the NHS or a private doctor/hospital. Seems to me we have more choice than you do there son.
estebanrey
estebanrey
Joined: Oct 4, 2012
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:33:21 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

How about this? 90% of the people in Scotland receive
more in benefits from the UK gov't than they pay in
taxes. How long do you think thats sustainable? How
long before you run out of other peoples money, as
Thatcher said. You talk about scared, thats pretty damn
scary.



That's not actually true but even it were what on earth has that got to do with national healthcare?
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:45:05 PM permalink
Here's another solution: Romney care's "McDoctors".

If you're willing to sign a waiver, then for like $39.95, some dude who sets up shop down at the local mall or 7-11 can do your surgery...or your dental work... Or your vasectomy.

The market is being constrained by trained professionals.

"Yes, all these kitchen knives have been washed. Put your balls on the bread board, thanx."
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 12:49:05 PM permalink
Quote: estebanrey

That's not actually true but even it were what on earth has that got to do with national healthcare?



Who do you think pays for the healtcare, peoples taxes
do. You can't give a huge number of people more in
benefits than you're getting in taxes from them, the
system will go broke.

This is what we're afraid of with Obamacare. My wife
got hurt on the job last year and went to the doctor
on Monday. She needed an MRI and got one on
Thursday. 3 day wait. In the UK, the average wait time
in 4-6 WEEKS for an MRI, and 3% of patients end up
waiting longer than the 18 weeks thats supposed to be
the maximum.

Why is god's name would we want this here? People in
the UK often die waiting for an MRI. But shit, its 'free'
so you can't really complain. What a crock.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
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October 8th, 2012 at 1:00:36 PM permalink
Quote: estebanrey

That's not actually true but even it were what on earth has that got to do with national healthcare?



It only matters if the only source of taxation is income taxes. It isn't. The figure I saw quoted was 12%, and compared direct taxation to direct benefits.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829

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