Why do cheating men get married?
Men are not naturally meant to be monogamous. A vow on a wedding day is just that. It's up to the man you marry not to cheat, and you should probably measure that trust before hand. You have to take the fact that men are wired to screw and reconcile it to the promise he made to you on your wedding day. A man of good character will take their promise seriously and not cheat (though they are wired to do so). That doesn't mean he won't flirt, look, watch porn, and think about straying and maybe even plan it. It's the action of STRAYING that you should take him to task for.
So look for a man of good character, and wait until you are sure.
To put this in a gambling perspective, I think that the expected value of happiness in life is greater by taking good risks. The one who is afraid of being hurt won't be, but will he/she ever be happy?
Here is a song that comes to my mind. I'm not saying it applies to you, but I think illustrates the choice you face.
Quote: I am a Rock by Simon and Garfunkle
A winter's day
In a deep and dark December;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and it's loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
Don't talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.
And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.
LOL how is that not offensive? :)Quote: HotBlondeWell no offense to the men on this site but I've learned that the men on this site are not the ideal men to pick from.
Well it's the truth. I'm just asking that you guys don't take offense to it. People oftentimes don't like the truth and tend to get defensive.Quote: teddysLOL how is that not offensive? :)
I'm basing my statement that "the men on this site are not the ideal men to pick from" primarily from the responses that have been written in this thread. Read through them all yourself. It seems that the responses that I'm getting is that cheating is normal and should be expected. My opinion is also supported in personal and direct communication with some of the men on this site. If these things are what the men on here think then that tells me that these men are not the kind of men I'm looking for. Not that I'm on here to look for someone. I'm happy just being friends with you all (well, most of you).
Quote:I have no particular insight as to how men (or women) are "wired." My opinion, though, is that if monogamy were were universally the default mode, then there would not be any need for marriage vows. I interpret the vows as making a commitment not to behave in what might be a default, philandering manner.
I think it's more to say publicly "this is the woman/man I will be with", which means there's less confusion and problems generally.
I don't think men are hard wired to cheat, any more than they are hard wired to steal or be violent or woman are hardwired to want kids or lie to protect their positions. It may be a tendency that a lot of men have. I'd guess it's between 5 and 15% of men who are inherently cheats and the same again on top who are cheats but unable to communicate that they "want out" of a current relationship.
Just my ideas.
And it's okay HotBlonde, I'm not offended, there's not been any women on here I'd want to select from either.
Quote: HotBlondeWell no offense to the men on this site but I've learned that the men on this site are not the ideal men to pick from.
Of course that is offensive. Just because you give that preface doesn't forgive the insult.
If you get married with the expectation that your husband won't look, flirt, watch porn, and do other activities to make himself feel good about himself (at least), then you're in for a problem. You should fully expect that your mate won't cheat and hold it to him. I expect nothing less from my wife, and she certainly has made it clear what my consequences are should I go astray.
The reason that I would never stray from my wife is because I love her and would never wound her in that way. That said, she understands that men need to have a little bit of latitude and lets me do the things I need to do not to stray. Truthfully I think that if you get into a relationship where a man cannot look, flirt, etc because the wife will dole out consequences, the man will simply go behind your back and truly cheat. And our sex drives are different. Good luck finding a partner who will match your drive week after week, month after month, year after year.
As for you HotBlonde, in my opinion, NOT TO BE OFFENSIVE, but you're clearly hung up on this issue.
Most women seem to be. They want the high income and independence but still want the Pedestal and High Maintenance to persist. They want the man to be on a leash of "look but don't touch" yet their own brain chemistry is betraying them as their use of low testosterone from birth controls has almost certainly altered their brainchemistry.Quote: boymimbobut you're clearly hung up on this issue.
One thing I find interesting is the concept that someone, biologically speaking, women are geared or wired toward being monogamous while men are not. The general idea on this is that males, again speaking strictly from a biological and animalistic, if you will, sense, want to simply procreate. The more they spread their seed around, the more chance they have of producing offspring. On the other hand, females will want to have the father of their offspring close at hand because it enables the male to partake in the care and protection of the offspring to ensure it reaches adulthood.
However, I've also seen studies that indicate the exact opposite. That males are wired toward being monogamous and females are not. The idea here being that if the female mates with several males, then none of the males can know if the resulting offspring is their or anothers. Thus, they will all participate in the care and protection of the offspring. The flip side is that the male would prefer monogamy, because the successful relation with a female and raising that offspring to adulthood is preferable to mating with several females with no guarantee of any of the offspring surviving to adulthood.
For me, the point is that such studies can probably be done to show either side of the coin.
Recently, I read a book that talked about self responsibility. It wasn't a book on marriage or relationships, per se, but it did have an interesting idea in it, at least for me. The author insisted on viewing marriage as a contract entered into by two parties. The author was not happy with the easiness of divorce. I believe that he thinks that rather making divorce easier, there should be more thought put into the joining of the contract in the first place, to hopefully make it less likely that a divorce will occur. And that when people enter into a contract of marriage, they should then own up to the fact that they have made such a commitment to another person, and do their best to fulfill their side of the contract.
As with anything I read, I don't necessarily believe or agree with everything I read. I do think that sometimes divorce is something that needs or must be done. However, the book does start to make me think that, maybe even because I'm worried about the possibility of cheating, that I want hastily enter into a marriage. And that when I do, I'll know it's what I want to do, and thus won't end up down a path of infidelity. Of course, nothing is ever certain, but I do think it takes a certain amount of self-respect, introspection, and long thought before marriage is entered into, and perhaps by doing this, future infidelity can be avoided.
They enjoy the married life and they enjoy a mistress on the side.
There is nothing complicated about it.
And don't get me wrong. I don't think there's anything wrong with men wanting to be with different women. The main question is if that's what they want to do (live it up and be with multiple women) then what's the point of committing to 1 single woman if only to continue on the path of having multiple partners? That's the main question. If you're into being with different women then be with different women. But don't decieve someone into thinking that you're with her and her alone when really you're f'ing other girls behind her back. So again, what's the point of committing to 1 girl then? So you have someone to do your laundry?
Quote: HotBlondeSo again, what's the point of committing to 1 girl then? So you have someone to do your laundry?
Welcome back!
That's one reason. Others, I guess, might include money, respectability, spite, well, many more, too.
Procreation as an excuse doesn't make much sense. Human don't have a breeding season, nor do human women know when they're likely to become pregnant (not by "natural" means, at least). This means a single act won't guarantee procreation. A man would increase his chances by bedding as many women as possible, sure, but so a woman would increase her chances by taking in a many men as possible.
I'd say the reason depends on the individual man. Some may simply like the thrill in the possibility of getting caught. And for that they have to be married.
Many bulls don't require a cow, or that an elaborate ritual be preformed - just a hand.
YMMV (your milk may vary)
... but what if the steer is jetting off all the time to distance places?
there's no simple answer.
Quote: HotBlondeWell I keep hearing how men like to procreate.
What does procreational sex have to do with recreational sex?
>then what's the point of committing to 1 single woman if only to continue on the path of having multiple partners?
Same as committing to 1 single man if only to continue on the path of having multiple partners...
Many women marry due to social pressures despite lack of any intent to remain "faithful". Some women actually dread going to their mailboxes and getting all those little white social envelopes about weddings and showers while they are having trouble finding decent suitors.
Many women conceive due to social pressures too.
Many women decide to remain married but to have lovers despite there having been no prior intention. Sometimes its just a matter of boredom or economics or how things turned out in other areas of life. Economic freedom has been a boon to females more than males. With divorce laws, property settlements, legal fees, etc., its often males who feel trapped.
> what's the point of committing to 1 girl then? So you have someone to do your laundry?
As good a reason as any other, but mainly its so you can display to yourself and to other males that you have someone to do your laundry. And then perhaps later display that you have someone younger and prettier to entertain you while the older one is doing your laundry. You've heard the term "trophy wife"... I think there is also a term for "trophy mistress". The bar room signs about "have one wife, 40, will trade for two 20s" are all over the place. Whereas women are more likely to talk with each other about "getting a cabana boy" despite a belief that their hubby is or may be genetically programmed to want several cabana girls.
Quote: FleaStiffWhat does procreational sex have to do with recreational sex?
>then what's the point of committing to 1 single woman if only to continue on the path of having multiple partners?
I cant presume to speak for anyone but myself here and my recent situation...i think it can be very complicated and behaviors such as cheating are symptoms of possible problems. I have been thinking about why both the guy and i cheated. just because im not married doesnt mean i didnt cheat. I did. I can guess as to why he cheatmed with me. And that reason, too, is very complex and layered. I cant even really understand my own motives in it except powerful attraction for both, loneliness, needs not being met in marriage, boredom even, and brain chemistry that thrives on pleasure seeking (addiction and the brain)....and more. I am not justifying just trying to make sense of it. This guy and i talked about what would happen if he left her and we DID talk about all outcomes....none being good. But we kept on. Sometimes i think it was just bullshit, sometimes i think it was even love, and sometimes i think it was just attachment and an emotional need. I dont think he is scum. Some men are..my ex for one....and that was why i divorced. But despitenfinding out how mentally sick and mean my ex is i didnt divorce lightly. I spent 4 years with him in therapy until 3 different therapists said i needed to leave. That he was not and wasnt going to be any time soon accountable.
I struggled in the affair and honestly it was more about the fact i would get crushed than anything else. Im selfish. I never expected him to leave wife. Not initially. Then HE brought up falling in love with me and we both realized we were fucked. It scared us. Now what?we thought....we backed off...we tried to leave...back and forth many times. We played out every scenario. But for me once i had sex with him i couldnt see clearly and all of a sudden i was all in.
Someone outed us and it blew up. It was not sober behavior at all and went against all of the 12 step work he was doing. I
Neither of us are flirts. But we had the same sexual needs and that was powerful for both of us as well. I read a story of a man married many years with a child who wrote passionately about how the emotional needs kept him yearning for the mistress despite having no contact after they too were outed. The end result of that situation was marriage for them.
The point is unless you have experienced it and felt it it is easy to say people are shit. We are shit to each other all the time for various reasons and in various circumstances. I can only speak for me and i tried to be friends only.....he pushed the physical more and i allowed it. Im not saying he forced me into anything. Of course not.
I still dont have answers. It is true what one poster said about boundaries. Women and men sometimes put uo with really bad behavior on a significant others part. When i was married it was because of my commitment in sickness and health but after 7 years of emotional and verbal abuse and rage by my then husband toward me that had nothinb to do with me but everything to do with his mother i had to get out. But ive put up with shit behavior before and despite years of therapy to work out my own family of origin baggage i again allowed myself to be in something less than fair to myself . (Affair). Why i wonder...i think more highly of myself than that. I said this earlier but i looked at all possible pathology on my part and it didnt fit. It came down to the fact that we were so attracted it was like a drug. And yet even now 2 months with no contact i still love the guy. It was not only chemistry but many other factors that drew us together. He said the same.
So its not right but it is complicated and i still cant give an answer. I can only protect myself in the future. Learn about myself more...and behave differently. But i am still strugglinb with hurt and loss. And because ive had so much loss the past 5 years it is lingering...which is why i am writing about it.
By writing and listening and reading responses ive been better able to process....some men may not understand that but women usually need to talk and talk about something as our way of figuring thingss out.
When I wrote the comment
in this thread I did not mean to insult anyone. As I stated soon after I made that comment, this comment was made due to the overwhelming responses I read about cheating. Since I am someone who would want to be in a loyal relationship, I figured that those of you who were writing how cheating can be justified or that it's ok or etc. were not men I would want to get involved with as I value fidelity in my own relationships. I probably didn't need to share my thoughts on that as I can understand now why people would take offense to that. I also want to say that I really do enjoy being here in the forum, as hopefully you can see by my constant interaction with you all.Quote:Well no offense to the men on this site but I've learned that the men on this site are not the ideal men to pick from.
Again I want to apologize for this comment. Even if there are those of you who do cheat or think it's ok sometimes for whatever reasons, I still respect you as individuals and it's not my place to judge. I am far from perfect myself. I do appreciate your participation in this thread as it's a topic that I often think about and I do value all of your comments.
I think you revealed one major point when you used the phrase Loyal Relationship. Loyalty is a quality of the people in the relationship whereas an exclusive relationship can be achieved through social or economic coercion. Even if each party enters into a marriage with the intent of being faithful things often change. The honeymoon ends, real life sets in ... and sometimes the relationship deteriorates by a sort of benign neglect. Couples that have "date nights" often acknowledge this. The husband still meets a great many single and willing young women but he values the existing relationship that he has with his wife. Its still a ball and chain but its a gold plated one!
Women sometimes look at the physique and income of their husband and focus on their disappointments. Men take wives for granted and that is often the first step to the wife broadening her horizons a bit.
Quote:the men on this site are not the ideal men to pick from
apology accepted, but also you have to realize it is hard to meet 'the right stuff' *anywhere*. I suspect you agree.
In my first marriage, on our wedding day, rather than my now ex-wife repeating "to death do us part", she said "as long as I possibly can". Red flag. The marriage lasted 5 months.
I've been married now for almost 9 years, which is nothing in the grand scheme of things (my parents will have their 50th anniversary next year). We've had our ups and down. I didn't foresee most of the problems that we've run into over over the years, didn't really see the flaws in my wife's character nor did my wife see mine. I didn't understand what her reactions to intense stress and heartbreak would be. I didn't understand what hell I'm capable of putting her through from time to time. Both my wife and I are different than when we met.
However, we're intensely committed to our marriage. We've been faithful, not because God tells us to, or that my job keeps her bound to me, or that people would look down on us (or celebrate) should we get divorced. It's because we made a promise to each other that we're not going to break, come hell or high water.
Quote: boymimboIn my first marriage, on our wedding day, rather than my now ex-wife repeating "to death do us part", she said "as long as I possibly can". Red flag. The marriage lasted 5 months.
Red flag indeed. At least she had a sense of humor.
I meant more social or economic coercion but not status necessarily. More an awareness of financial results of an affair or of a divorce.
> It's a matter of character and commitment. You made a promise. Keep it.
For some it is. I've mentioned before about the man who stood there and said "I do" about 12 hours after having arranged his first post-honeymoon appointment with his "something on the side". I've also known of women getting married even though they knew it was Mr. Wrong and would not last.
> Both my wife and I are different than when we met. However, we're intensely committed to our marriage.
Congratulations.
Some men always remember that they are married. Other men always remember that it is their wives who are married. Its a matter of viewpoint. One man told a woman he was getting divorced and she replied "feel free to send me a copy of the final dissolution decree, but until then: get lost!".
I don't quite know the details but there was the Honeymoon Cruise couple wherein the bride apparently got so drunk that she kicked her brand new husband in the wrong place and went off with one of the shipboard casino's cashiers, spent the night in his cabin and then returning to her stateroom discovered her husband robbed of his casino winnings and dead. I'm sure she never intended to commit adultery on the fourth day of her marriage but sometimes things just happen.
Quote: boymimboIn my first marriage, on our wedding day, rather than my now ex-wife repeating "to death do us part", she said "as long as I possibly can". Red flag. The marriage lasted 5 months.
At my wedding, when the JOP said "You may now kiss the bride", I leaned down and she turned away at the last second so I got her cheek instead. Red flag.
Quote: HotBlondeThat would be fun. And only one person on here contacted me a while back (I don't know if I should "out" him) and asked me if I'd ever lke to "chat sometime", and that was only after I contacted him about something else. I told him sure but that he lives kind of far away. To me it seems pointless to "chat" with someone on the other side of the world. What's the point?
I once had a friendship with a girl over in Australia in which we were quite friendly and had fun together but geographical situations can be difficult to overcome. I once said to her, "If only my penis were about 7000 miles longer than it actually is... because we could be getting it on RIGHT NOW if it was!"
Monogamy is not our business nor that of any living mammal.
I think in the animalworld there is only one species that lives monogam, its a Mouse.
And .. think about it: why should we be?
Evolution teaches us that, the more you love, the more you will be loved back. Or Something like that :)
somebody has to clean and cook.....pleaseQuote: CLOUDW4LKERI think what HotBlonde said is right.
Monogamy is not our business nor that of any living mammal.
I think in the animalworld there is only one species that lives monogam, its a Mouse.
And .. think about it: why should we be?
Evolution teaches us that, the more you love, the more you will be loved back. Or Something like that :)
Certainly, my choice to remain monogamous and being married is just that -- a choice. My biological programming of course says differently, which is why I am attracted to other women. The choice I make not to do anything with them is based on reason -- I love my wife and would not hurt her.
Even if I no longer loved my wife, I have signed into a commitment with her, and I would break that contract first before cheating.
The feelings of "love" are chemical, and anyone with any history of relationships longer than a couple of years understands that those endorphins go away over time, and you're left with the personality and quality of the woman that you're screwing with. Any problems that you have with your current woman will just propogate to the one you're having an affair with.
That is because Beta males don't make enough money to cheat on their spouses.Quote: Fuengirola2Cheating men are often alfa males.
Quote: FleaStiffThat is because Beta males don't make enough money to cheat on their spouses.
lol, but sadly untrue.
Remember the trapped miners in Chile? The one guy had his wife and girlfriend show up to support him, and he was a freaking Chilian miner!
Who knows how many women Tiger slept with and what his probability was. He was king of his game for 16 years (turned professional in 1996). Realistically, if he had a chick available every night up to the time he met Elin, that's about 2,000 women, but he wasn't cheating then. His time to cheat I guess would come from the date he engaged Elin in November 2003 up until the scandal in November 2009. That's 6 years. Realistically, while on tour, it's likely that Sunday night would be transit night and Wednesday to Saturday nights would be "tour nights" where he would be holed up concentrating on his next round. So really, while touring, there's two nights a week where he could be screwing around. Now over those six years he participated in 118 tournaments. That gave him 194 weeks where he wasn't participating in a tournament. Assume that he spends at least 1/2 those nights with Elin.
So Tiger then has 194 x 3.5 + 118 x 2 = 915 nights where he might be spending away from home. So, if he was prolific as say, Wilt Chamberlain, at most, he would probably have about 915 partners over those 6 years.
But I agree that an average schmo really has the "opportunity" to cheat (with a stupid and willing partner) perhaps once a year really if you're looking for someone and you're comfident in your abilities. It's fairly easy to hide a ring or the fact that you're married with a trusting spouse (which doesn't stop people anyway).
The added factor is sports photographers and public recognition. These things tend to dampen the ability to "search" and simply make one want to focus on "the deal". This can simply be call girls or it can simply be women who are like minded in the deal and not the hunt.
Often the wife is a trophy wife anyway so the makeup is a commercial transaction to begin with.
Consider what I've termed "hollow core porn"... these YouTube Soap Operas aimed at a female audience and featuring strong female characters. The audience is female they don't need to see skin... a suggestive negligee is fine. They want an afternoon interlude between a hooker and a John to have more conversation than ten such encounters would have in real life. The shows are low budget but that is okay because nothing much has to happen, the females just have to talk about it. Females tend to focus on a romantic notion of a relationship rather than the practical realities of real life.
The wives who hired lawyers, CPAs and private detectives before the marriage and who do a full CPA audit every five or ten years probably don't have problems with "cheaters". The wife's concern would mainly be how much his Bimbo on the side was going to cost, not the fact that the Bimbo existed. The wives who go into a marriage talking about trust and love are probably the ones who don't discover the Bimbo until the bank account is depleted and a Condo or two are in the name of other women. Those are the women who feel betrayed by the cheating rather than just its impact.
Quote: WizardIt goes against nature for men to stay monogamous.
This loses sight of the moral definition of an adult male, or man. But a man can't go against his own nature. Read between the lines.
Quote: WizardAn honorable man can hopefully override the natural urge to spread his seed around as much as possible.
Trying to imagine all those honorable men out there trying to override the natural urge has got to be more difficult.
Quote: WizardI doubt most men intend to cheat when they get married.
Marriage is a form of cheating. If a relationship is truly solid, then it best stands as it is.
Quote: WizardHowever, if they are not getting their needs met at home, the odds of cheating climb quickly.
The more people have, the more they want. This is everyone's nature.
Quote: HotBlonde
So why do men get married if they're just going to cheat
Because a man who needs the acceptance of mainstream society will marry even if he can not be monogamous. The image of marriage is more important (and has more utility) than upholding the standards.
True. Even in Edwardian times where various wife swapping parties and swinging parties were well organized at country estates, it was still a party properly attended by married couples. The institution of marriage and its trappings are always valued even if not followed. The problems seem to arise only when its women, rather than men, who appear miffed at a man's cheating.Quote: chrisjs87Because a man who needs the acceptance of mainstream society will marry even if he can not be monogamous. The image of marriage is more important (and has more utility) than upholding the standards.
Quote: HotBlondeNot that this has anything to do with cheating, but thought this was cute. I even posted a copy of this on the Wizard's Facebook page. Michael is constantly telling me I need to pick an accountant over a drummer.
why would you pick a musican over sum one with real earning potenal?
Quote: HotBlondeSo why do men get married if they're just going to cheat?
For the same reason that some women do I suppose. Just as men get married and remain true, as some women do. If only the right pairs would match up! ;-}
"Sometimes when you win you really lose. And sometimes when you lose you really win. And sometimes when you win or lose, you really tie..."
The women's revolution in the sixties gave women the pill and the paycheck... and therefore the ability to be "living together" for as long as he keeps putting the seat down, otherwise we split the phone bill and move on.
Many marriages involve an intent on each party to have other persons for sex. I know one woman who arranged for two men to visit simultaneously when her husband was away a few months after the wedding. Between her job and her husband she had to take care of her lovers "efficiently".
Cheating is redefined. Having sex outside the marriage can be fine, but no kids. Or it might be: Have a whore elsewhere, I'm only "missionary style".
