PLAZA CASINO BONUS FOR TAX DAY (reposted)

Quote: darkoz

...And if you guys are aware of any lucrative NY promotions, I beg of you to please and absolutely post them here so I and my fellow AP's can take advantage. If its advertised in the press, feel free to post.

AP's don't make the bulk of their money by openly sharing all of their good plays. They make money by figuring the plays out for themselves and then keeping a tight lid on it and riding it as long as they can.

Quote: darkoz

I did not affect your bottom line anymore than Anthony Curtis or Steve Bourie.

Are you seriously suggesting that no one from the gambling community, AP or casino employees goes to any of those websites?

And if you guys are aware of any lucrative NY promotions, I beg of you to please and absolutely post them here so I and my fellow AP's can take advantage. If its advertised in the press, feel free to post.

I think a lot of people already knew about it. But I think a lot of people found out from your post. Had I not been in Vegas this week, I would not have checked the Vegas news and deals. Your post would have tipped me off and i would have made a special trip. I have to imagine that there are people who fell into this situation. We had one guy admit that he did the promo because of this thread a few pages ago. And it sounds like from Axel that this thread got the $5 VP shut down. There were other plays, but that was still a good one which I would have liked to get some action on.

Quote: Romes

AP's don't make the bulk of their money by openly sharing all of their good plays. They make money by figuring the plays out for themselves and then keeping a tight lid on it and riding it as long as they can.

Right. And you are not keeping a lid on it if it is advertised and discussed nationwide.

Brother what was the benefit , there was zero benefit at all in you posting it other then see I'm smart I find things

Quote: Wizardofnothing

Brother what was the benefit , there was zero benefit at all in you posting it other then see I'm smart I find things

Perhaps that's why you are upset. You cannot see the value in my posting it. I do. My reasons were more altruistic than that.

I'm iver it, you clearly matter of fact cost everyone the 5 dollar video poker , it is what it is

First of all, I don’t play either slots or VP at all, so this promotion, its “revelation”, and the ensuing controversy mean nothing at all to me personally.

Second, I was intrigued by some side issues as revealed in a series of posts here about who the boss is at the Plaza or who is in charge there. Here are the posts that caught my eye, with their post dates/times in PDT:

April 21st, 2016 at 10:54:56 PM

Quote: AxelWolf

FROM THE OWNER HIMSELF(others can confirm) During the play.Something to the effect of......
Had I thought or known about games xxx and xxx I would've excluded it prior. I didn't think about doing XXX or xxx.
You guys got me on this and other plays.*shrugs shoulders*

April 21st, 2016 at 11:07:40 PM

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I can confirm that the owner was 100 percent on site and saw what was being played.

April 21st, 2016 at 11:51:04 PM

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Poju Zabludowicz was there? He's the Chairman and CEO of Tamares Group which owns the Plaza.

April 21st, 2016 at 11:56:10 PM

Quote: AxelWolf

Give props to the Plaza and Jonathan Jossel Owner/C.E.O.

He's actually a cool guy.

April 22nd, 2016 at 12:13:36 AM (in response to Ibeatyouraces post at 11:51:04 PM)

Quote: AxelWolf

Well then someone is running around with fake cards and telling slot techs what to do.

April 22nd, 2016 at 8:26:16 AM

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I'm sure he's the guy running the show there at the place.

It sure seems like with a Nevada Gaming Commission running the whole gaming show in the state, it should not be a difficult thing to establish who owns/runs the casinos. But they seem to cloud the issue for commoners like me.

For a number of years, I looked at the NGC “Report of Locations” for such information. The latest such report was issued more than a year ago on 3/3/15. You can download your very own copy of that report for the Nonrestricted casino license holders from this site by clicking on the line that says “Detailed Report – Nonrestricted”.

They have implemented a new “feature” that lets you download a report for some of the individual casinos or submit a request for an email copy (to be delivered in a few business days) for the ones (like the Plaza) that cannot be downloaded. I haven't bothered to do that.

Just to give an idea of how complicated the ownership/management issues can be, and how difficult it might be to understand what the current situation is even if you have the NGC report on an establishment, I am providing below the info on the Plaza, extracted from the almost-14-month-old report that is available on-line. I am presenting it behind a spoiler button simply because I did not want to throw up an immediate wall of text before you click on the button.

My short comment here is that the name “Poju Zabludowicz” doesn’t seem to show up in this report from the NGC while “Jonathan Jossel” does show up as "100% Manager". At least as of last year. Noted two different places as "Added" 4/18/13 and 8/14/14 and not "Removed".



Have fun with that!

Quote: Doc

First of all, I don’t play either slots or VP at all, so this promotion, its “revelation”, and the ensuing controversy mean nothing at all to me personally.

Second, I was intrigued by some side issues as revealed in a series of posts here about who the boss is at the Plaza or who is in charge there. Here are the posts that caught my eye, with their post dates/times in PDT:

April 21st, 2016 at 10:54:56 PM

April 21st, 2016 at 11:07:40 PM

April 21st, 2016 at 11:51:04 PM

April 21st, 2016 at 11:56:10 PM

April 22nd, 2016 at 12:13:36 AM (in response to Ibeatyouraces post at 11:51:04 PM)

April 22nd, 2016 at 8:26:16 AM

It sure seems like with a Nevada Gaming Commission running the whole gaming show in the state, it should not be a difficult thing to establish who owns/runs the casinos. But they seem to cloud the issue for commoners like me.

For a number of years, I looked at the NGC “Report of Locations” for such information. The latest such report was issued more than a year ago on 3/3/15. You can download your very own copy of that report for the Nonrestricted casino license holders from this site by clicking on the line that says “Detailed Report – Nonrestricted”.

They have implemented a new “feature” that lets you download a report for some of the individual casinos or submit a request for an email copy (to be delivered in a few business days) for the ones (like the Plaza) that cannot be downloaded. I haven't bothered to do that.

Just to give an idea of how complicated the ownership/management issues can be, and how difficult it might be to understand what the current situation is even if you have the NGC report on an establishment, I am providing below the info on the Plaza, extracted from the almost-14-month-old report that is available on-line. I am presenting it behind a spoiler button simply because I did not want to throw up an immediate wall of text before you click on the button.

My short comment here is that the name “Poju Zabludowicz” doesn’t seem to show up in this report from the NGC while “Jonathan Jossel” does show up as "100% Manager". At least as of last year. Noted two different places as "Added" 4/18/13 and 8/14/14 and not "Removed".

From the NGC report of 3/3/15

Name PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO, LLC             | Approve Date 03/18/04
DB at                                                        | Start Date 03/25/04
DB as PLAZA HOTEL AND CASINO                | Finaled Date 99/99/99
N - Non Restricted                         Active                                Ownership LLCO
---------- Location Address ----- -----------------Mailing Address-----------
1 MAIN ST                                                            1 MAIN ST
LAS VEGAS NV 89101                                             LAS VEGAS NV 89101
---Added---Removed------------------------Owners only ----------------------
03/25/04 01/13/06 R BARRICK PROPERTIES,INC.
                                       -(75% OF BARRICK CORPORATION)
03/25/04 01/13/06 R D.W. BARRICK REVOCABLE TRUST INDENTURE
03/25/04 01/13/06 R DAVID WAYNE BARRICK/TRUSTEE-BENEFICIARY
03/25/04 01/13/06 R FREDA A. BARRICK REVOCABLE TRUST INDENTURE
03/25/04 01/13/06 R FREDA ANN BARRICK/TRUSTEE-BENEFICIARY
03/25/04 01/13/06 R MONTE WAYNE BARRICK/TREASURER-DIRECTOR
03/25/04 01/13/06 R DAVID WAYNE BARRICK/PRESIDENT-DIRECTOR
03/25/04 01/13/06 R FREDA ANN BARRICK/SECRETARY-DIRECTOR-
                            - ----
03/25/04 01/13/06 R JMC INVESTMENTS, L.L.C.
                                        -(25% OF BARRICK CORPORATION)
03/25/04 01/13/06 R STEPHEN ALAN CRYSTAL/MANAGER
                            - -----
03/25/04 01/13/06 R BARRICK CORPORATION
               -(100% OF BARRICK GAMING CORPORATION)
03/25/04 01/13/06 R DAVID WAYNE BARRICK/CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER-
                                     TREASURER-ASSISTANT SECRETARY-DIRECTOR
03/25/04 01/13/06 R STEPHEN ALAN CRYSTAL/PRESIDENT-SECRETARY-
                                     EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT-DIRECTOR
                            - -----
03/25/04 01/13/06 R BARRICK GAMING CORPORATION
                                   -(100% MANAGING MEMBER OF BARRICK GAMING INVESTMENTS,LLC)
03/25/04 01/13/06 R DAVID WAYNE BARRICK/CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER-
                                     TREASURER-ASSISTANT SECRETARY-DIRECTOR
03/25/04 01/13/06 R STEPHEN ALAN CRYSTAL/PRESIDENT-SECRETARY-EXECUTIVE
                                     VICE PRESIDENT-DIRECTOR-GENERAL COUNSEL
03/25/04 01/13/06 R PHILLIP LEE FLAHERTY/CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER
                           - -----
01/13/06 07/01/08 R NAVEGANTE GAMING, LLC
                                      -(100% MANAGING MEMBER OF PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS,LLC)
01/13/06 07/01/08 R LARRY JEAN WOOLF/MANAGER
01/24/08 07/01/08 R LARRY DAVID WOOLF/MANAGER-CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER
                            - -----
07/01/08 10/01/10 R BRH GAMING, LLC
                                      -(100% MANAGER OF PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC)
07/01/08 10/01/10 R BOBBY RAY HARRIS(1)/100% MANAGER
                            - -----
10/01/10 08/14/14 R SANTO GAMING, LLC
                                     -(100% MANAGER OF PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC)
10/01/10 08/14/14 R ANTHONY FRANCIS SANTO/------------------------100%
                                     MANAGER
                            : -----
08/14/14               JRJ GAMING, LLC (2)
                            : (100% MANAGER OF PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC)
08/14/14               JONATHAN ROBERT JOSSEL/------------------100%
                                        MANAGER
                            : -----
03/25/04               PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC
                            : (100% MANAGING MEMBER OF PLAYLV GAMING OPERATIONS,LLC)
                            : -----
03/25/04               PLAYLV GAMING OPERATIONS, LLC
                            : (100% MANAGING MEMBER OF PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO, LLC)
03/25/04 01/13/06 R PHILLIP LEE FLAHERTY/CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER
                            : -----
03/25/04               PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO, LLC DBA
                            : PLAZA HOTEL AND CASINO
03/25/04 01/13/06 R PHILLIP LEE FLAHERTY/CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER
                            : KEY EMPLOYEE
05/22/08 08/19/10 R BOBBY RAY HARRIS/(1)GENERAL MANAGER
08/19/10 08/14/14 R ANTHONY FRANCIS SANTO/GENERAL MANAGER
04/18/13                   JRJ GAMING, LLC/(2)
                                          DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS
04/18/13                                         JONATHAN ROBERT JOSSEL/---------------
                                                       100% MANAGER
                            : -----
06/29/05               TAMARES BARRICK LAS VEGAS PROPERTIES, LLC(1)
06/29/05                           MICHAEL R. TREANOR/MANAGING MEMBER
                            : -----
03/25/04              APPROVAL OF RACE BOOK
03/25/04              APPROVAL OF OFF-TRACK PARI-MUTUEL [RACE] WAGERING
03/25/04              APPROVAL OF SPORTS POOL
03/25/04              APPROVAL OF OFF-TRACK PARI-MUTUEL [SPORTS] WAGERING
                           : -----
                           : (1)PERMISSION TO PARTICIPATE PER REG. 8.060
                           : -----
04/18/13                (2)LIMITED LICENSE TO EXPIRE AT MIDNIGHT OF THE
                                  APRIL 2015 NEVADA GAMING COMMISSION MEETING ON THE
                                  DAY THE ITEM IS HEARD.
                           : -----
03/25/04              APPROVAL FOR PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC TO ISSUE
                          WARRANTS TO CONCORDE LAS VEGAS PARTNERS, LLC,
                          DRAWBRIDGE SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY FUND AND LEGG MASON
                          WOOD WALKER, INCORPORATED.
                          : -----
03/25/04             APPROVAL FOR PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC TO PLEDGE
                          ITS MEMBERSHIP INTERESTS IN PLAYLV GAMING OPERATIONS,
                          LLC TO CONCORDE BARRICK LAS VEGAS PROPERTIES, LLC.
                          : -----
03/25/04             APPROVAL FOR PLAYLV GAMING OPERATIONS, LLC TO PLEDGE
                          ITS MEMBERSHIP INTERESTS IN PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO, LLC
                          TO DRAWBRIDGE SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY FUND.
                          - -----
03/24/05 01/13/06 R APPROVAL FOR BARRICK CORPORATION TO GRANT A STOCK
                               OPTION TO JMC INVESTMENTS, LLC
                           - -----
03/24/05 01/13/06 R APPROVAL FOR BARRICK GAMING CORPORATION TO GRANT
                               STOCK OPTIONS TO JOHN DWIGHT GOURLEY AND RICHARD
                               NEIL DESHON
                         : -----
12/22/05            APPROVAL FOR PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC TO PLEDGE
                         ITS MEMBERSHIP INTERESTS IN PLAYLV GAMING OPERATIONS,
                         LLC TO TAMARES BARRICK LAS VEGAS PROPERTIES, LLC
                         : -----
12/22/05            APPROVAL FOR PLAYLV GAMING INVESTMENTS, LLC TO PLACE
                         RESTRICTIONS UPON THE TRANSFER OF, AND TO ENTER INTO
                         AGREEMENTS NOT TO ENCUMBER, THE EQUITY SECURITIES OF
                         PLAYLV GAMING OPERATIONS, LLC
                         : -----
08/01/08            APPROVAL FOR PLAZA HOTEL & CASINO, LLC DBA PLAZA HOTEL
                         AND CASINO TO RECIEVE A PERCENTAGE OF GAMING REVENUE
                         FROM THE RACE BOOK AND SPORTS POOL OPERATED BY
                         BRANDYWINE BOOKMAKING LLC DBA LUCKY'S AT PLAZA HOTEL
                         AND CASINO.
                         - -----
10/01/10 08/14/14 R APPROVAL TO PLACE RESTRICTIONS UPON THE TRANSFER OF,
                               AND TO ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT NOT TO ENCUMBER, THE
                               EQUITY SECURITIES OF SANTO GAMING, LLC IN CONJUCTION
                               WITH A LEASE AGREEMENT.
                            ------
05/11/11 08/24/11 R PERMISSION FOR TEMPORARY CLOSURE GRANTED BY GAMING
                               CONTROL BOARD PER REG. 9.010(2) TO EXPIRE 9/29/11.
                            : -----
<End of Owners>

Have fun with that!

Yes, Jonathan was the guy going around introducing himself to the APs. Not sure who the other guy listed was, probably the previous owner I assume.

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I'm iver it, you clearly matter of fact cost everyone the 5 dollar video poker , it is what it is

Why aren't you blaming the people who actually discussed the inclusion and value of the $5 VP? All Darkoz did is post the basic public info about the promo and start a thread. Other people chose to say "too much" about how to play the promo...

In the last 2 days I have listed to all of Vegas Fan Boys podcast. A few months back be actually had jonathan Jossel on as a guest. I happened to listen to this episode about 4 hours ago. He is definitely the current CEO. He also mentioned on the podcast that part of his way of running things was to run promotions and give them a chance. He said he wouldn't cancel promotions. I kinda laughed when he was talking about that. He also said he can be found near one of the bars quite often and loves talking to players. He sounded European of some sort.

Also just listened to a podcast where 5 hundy was making fun of Prince. It was the podcast from early 2015. Thought it was another ironic podcast that I listened to today.

Quote: Avincow

Yes, Jonathan was the guy going around introducing himself to the APs. Not sure who the other guy listed was, probably the previous owner I assume.

I have no idea about the other guy, Poju Zabludowicz, even as to whether that is a real person's name -- it's just what Ibeatyouraces posted.

What I posted should have included the relevant info/history since 2004, which I think is when the place started using the name "Plaza Hotel and Casino" instead of "Union Plaza" (or some variant thereof).

I did meet this Jonathan guy. Seemed nice but I'm always weary of people in charge of a casino being nice, it's like they are trying to probe info and my mo is to never speak to cops or people in charge because they have ulterior motives. Also I don't feel like incriminating myself. I will bore them to death about football or something totally unrelated tho

Quote: djatc

I did meet this Jonathan guy. Seemed nice but I'm always weary of people in charge of a casino being nice, it's like they are trying to probe info and my mo is to never speak to cops or people in charge because they have ulterior motives. Also I don't feel like incriminating myself. I will bore them to death about football or something totally unrelated tho

Smartest decision yet.

Sometimes I find I'm standing in the Purple Rain......

OK, it needed music.
I'm not that good...

Purple Rain,....Purple Rainnnnn ;-)

www.tamares.com/about

This company owns the Plaza.


Quote Jossel from a RJ interview:

"Question: Why did Tamares move you to Las Vegas?

Answer: The owner, Poju Zabludowicz, had owned these properties since 2005 and he was looking for someone on the ground to be a full-time representative, someone who was young who could get into the culture of Las Vegas and understand the downtown environment."

m.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/plaza-re-emphasizes-gaming-and-44-year-old-resort-prospers

Quote: djatc

I did meet this Jonathan guy......I will bore them to death about football or something totally unrelated tho

Reading between the lines. So does Jonathan like Miatas or not?

Quote: mcallister3200

Reading between the lines. So does Jonathan like Miatas or not?

I didn't get that impression, no emphasis/pause on the TH in Jonathan. He seemed like a ladies man.

Why you like em rich?

I can ask around for you.

Just check your grinder app or whatever.

Quote: AxelWolf

I didn't get that impression, no emphasis/pause on the TH in Jonathan. He seemed like a ladies man.

Why you like em rich?

I can ask around for you.

Just check you're grinder app or whatever.

I'm totally lost. Is there some homosexual connotation about owning a Miata? Isn't that like a car or something? Forgive my New York lack of knowledge about automobiles. I still don't understand what owning a Miata has to do with anything.

Quote: darkoz

I'm totally lost. Is there some homosexual connotation about owning a Miata?

That seems to have been a recurring theme around here, though I've never understood it either. I have owned/driven two Miatas, a 1993 and a 1999. I like the look of the hardtop convertible, but I've never driven one. I'm probably too fat and stiff to drive one these days.

I've known several other folks who owned Miatas and a fair number of gay people, but so far as I know, there is a 0% overlap in those two sets.

Quote: darkoz

I'm totally lost. Is there some homosexual connotation about owning a Miata? Isn't that like a car or something? Forgive my New York lack of knowledge about automobiles. I still don't understand what owning a Miata has to do with anything.

Not withstanding Doc's reply above, I do believe you missed out on an ongoing joke. Going a long time now. Might be hard to catch up, maybe just let that one go.....

Quote: darkoz

I'm totally lost. Is there some homosexual connotation about owning a Miata? Isn't that like a car or something? Forgive my New York lack of knowledge about automobiles. I still don't understand what owning a Miata has to do with anything.

Long time joke but essentially a miata could be considered a feminine car.

Quote: darkoz

I'm totally lost. Is there some homosexual connotation about owning a Miata? Isn't that like a car or something? Forgive my New York lack of knowledge about automobiles. I still don't understand what owning a Miata has to do with anything.

ABSOLUTELY 99.54% of the male's who intentionally buy a Miata are gay.
99.99% of AP male's who intentionally buy a Miata are gay.

This will explain more https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCYi3k2KcSs

95% of the people who are AP's and write about potentially good plays on forums are... NVM.

Quote: darkoz

Also, assuming the Plaza really did act so fast (within a few hours of reading this) because they were so diligent, just how long did you think they were NOT going to notice you actually taking them at the machines. Did all the AP's on here envision some scene from "Casino" where after multiple jackpots Deniro starts firing the dummie who didn't recognize people getting W2-G's every few minutes? (In fact, it was the w2G thing that caused the demise of the whole poker double up bug - lets see - maybe that's because if you ever want to really get a casinos attention, all you need to do is get W2-G's repeatedly same day - especially when they are giving away 28% free-play.

So that was absolutely WRONG! Within seconds someone I know hit a jackpot 1st play on his 2nd machine. There were HUNDREDS of Jackpots. Plenty of people hit over 20 JP's.

Someone else asked me how long this would last. I said the Plaza has been known to let their promotions run the entire time(MONTHS EVEN), sometimes making modifications, however usually still good. I was fairly certain it would last at least till management came in on day shift.

Quote: darkoz

Truth is, those people planning to AP this (and with each new person coming on here frustrated like Avincow now it shows that the place was going to be swarmed with AP's, those four machines available would have really set the casino off when fifty people all were fighting for the same four seats), those people planning to AP this would probably be on here the day after crying foul when the Plaza reneged on their offers ala the Revel and they had all simply lost their money on the play.

Again Plaza had been known to play fair.

There's absolutely no doubt that if they didn't get spooked to the true value of the $5 machines they would've lasted at least 8 hours and probably longer. No fighting involved generally most AP's respect each other in vegas, especially anyone with the ability and BR to play the $5. Whomever is willing to come early enough and the machines they are generally left alone.

As far as them slow paying, there were ways around that.

Quote: darkoz

I did not affect your bottom line anymore than Anthony Curtis or Steve Bourie..

You're no Anthony Curtis orBob Dancer whomever. The fact is they got to a level in life where they make their money on websites, books etc etc. I seriously doubt they would've posted about a lucrative play publicly if their main source of income was through AP. I doubt AC and Bob were spreading information about good BJ tournaments, VP, slots or whatever when they first started. They got many successful wins and plays under their belts and gained enough popularity, made enough money to get back to their roots and move on.



I know you want to be a writer or whatever, however I think you're going about it ass backwards.

You have admitted your AP is a result of a perfect storm. IIRC someone someone tipped you off. You haven't been doing this for long as is apparent from your first few posts. Especially with your betting system nonsense, and don't tell me your system included free play or mail, because we all know that's not included or the point of MBJ's offer.

IMO. You should get more than a few plays under your belt, not just bonus machines and a few multi carding Mail and bus tricks revolving around free play. Anong with A few big lucky plays doesn't really mean anything.

Using a few similar methods at different casinos isn't that interesting.


Possibly avoid pissing off the AP community

I'm more upset with you than someone like Mike. Odds, math, analyzing sharing information is what he does.

You said something about how your secret plays are earned plays and this was public information, perhaps people earned the information by actively searching through public information. Making easy for them doesn't have to be your job as a AP.
I mean you're supposed to be an AP and I'm asking you and others to respect the AP code.

As far as you saying you will give some NYC AP information that's all smoke and mirrors trying to convince us that you're not being hypocritical. I'm certain you are not telling us anything that is seriously valuable to yourself. You didn't tell anyone here about your 8k a day play, Tropicana or the craps or anything good that would affect you.


Honestly I think anyone upset about this would accept a "oops my bad, I'll maybe hold off and see what effect this may have and weigh that with the overall benefits and negatives to everyone.

Well said, and respectable, it will probably fall on def ears though

Quote: Doc

That seems to have been a recurring theme around here, though I've never understood it either. I have owned/driven two Miatas, a 1993 and a 1999. I like the look of the hardtop convertible, but I've never driven one. I'm probably too fat and stiff to drive one these days.

I've known several other folks who owned Miatas and a fair number of gay people, but so far as I know, there is a 0% overlap in those two sets.

The Miata was the first brand new car I bought. It was a 1990 and that was the first full production year. It was a great car. Around 1994 I was in San Francisco for a convention and a comedian was doing a lot of jokes about the Miata being the choice of cars for homosexuals. That was the first time I had ever heard it.

Doc, I agree with you about hard top convertibles. I have owned at least one convertible every year since 1990. About eight years ago I bought my first hard top convertible and now I will never go back to a soft top. Sadly, I am also starting to get old and fat but I don't have any intention of getting rid of the convertibles.

No objection to convertibles, and I was specifically referring to the hard-top Miata. I do have some reservations now about tiny cars that I have difficulty getting in and out of. I've been driving a 2005 Ford Explorer since 2007.

I think this whole Gay Miata business should probably be split into its own thread however,

my 2c is that perhaps it has to do with the fact its a hard-top convertible????

As in the term hard-top?

I know if some dude came up to me in a bar and asked if I like hard-tops, Miata's would not be the first assumption I would make.

Quote: darkoz

...my 2c is that perhaps it has to do with the fact its a hard-top convertible????

Doubtful. The hardtop Miata is a fairly recent introduction, much more recent than the comedy routine that DRich mentioned. All I can guess is someone has a strong bias against both inexpensive sports cars and gays. The imaginary "statistics" that AxelWolf posted would be hard to explain otherwise.

I thought I remember the Miata always having the optional hardtop that you could place on,,,,, like the old 560 Mercedes sl

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I thought I remember the Miata always having the optional hardtop that you could place on,,,,, like the old 560 Mercedes sl

You are correct, in 1990 I believe the removable hard top was a $2000 option. I never had one on that car but I did purchase one for my Allante.

Quote: Wizardofnothing

I thought I remember the Miata always having the optional hardtop that you could place on....

Yes, you are correct about a removable hardtop being available all along. I am referring to the newer, retractable hardtop available for Miatas.

Seems I recall seeing something about some models of Corvettes (never had one myself) with a removable hardtop but without a soft top installed. If you went out for a ride and left the top at home, you could be SOL if it started to rain.