El Cortez Gambling Update
I was just there 4 weeks ago and have been a regular visitor for over 2 years.
Craps has been a $3 to $1000, 10 times odds table for the longest time. Have never seen $1 craps there.
Most evening both tables are open until shift change when they close one.
I sure hope they have not changed.
They also have 4 roulette tables with 25 cent minimum bets, right next to the $5 min mini-baccarat table.
1 $5 min 3 card poker,
1 $5 min pai-gow poker
I will be there next week to find out for sure.
Quote: 7winner
Craps has been a $3 to $1000, 10 times odds table for the longest time. Have never seen $1 craps there.
Most evening both tables are open until shift change when they close one.
I sure hope they have not changed.
Cortez usually opens both craps tables but only one is $3 minimum. And that is not a guarantee. But there is always a $5 minimum table.
Binion's used to open $1 craps tables but only in the middle of the night and only on the pit bosses decision. Perhaps it happens on rare occasions at El Cortez.
Started playing there not long after Jackie sold the Plaza. First went there cause the barber at the Plaza had left.
Back then it was a very interesting crowd. However the entire area has changed quite a bit in the last 2 years.
The walk from the FSE at night can be a bit concerning however unless you are in that short predawn period after the bars close on the block between LVB and The ElC it is relatively safe.
My wife and I (34 and 40) used to stay at the GN but about 4 years ago changed to the ElC. Truthfully we get much better service.
We come from the east coast but still stay at the El C about 20 days a year. Now they just need to replace the pool.
The last time I was there over Halloween they had $3 craps all the time.
I also must say I like the fact that a person owns the casino not millions of share holders.
Unless it changed since '08 Kenny Epstein is the majority owner now.
EDIT: Just checked the El C's site and they have pretty much all the rules clearly posted and table limits. Wish more casinos did this.
They also have a list of all of the other venues in the area. Not just the indy bars but clubs and bars located in other casinos.
Quote: Wavy70Just checked the El C's site and they have pretty much all the rules clearly posted and table limits. Wish more casinos did this. They also have a list of all of the other venues in the area. Not just the indy bars but clubs and bars located in other casinos.
The website may not be organized too well, but it is indeed nice to have that information presented. The list of 'The Neighborhood' probably saves them from repetitively answering questions all the time but just might be a decision-making item for some people who decide to stay at the "Hell Cortez" but also check out the nearby whatever.
I noted that "our slots are thirty percent looser than the County Average"... no comparison to any other casino. No comparison to Downtown casino averages.
They can't compare to any other casino because Nevada doesn't release returns of individual casinos. They probably should have compared themselves to the downtown average, but it probably wasn't as impressive a "swing." Palms did the same advertising campaign recently, so they could have reverse-engineered the numbers and compared themselves to Palms. I would be confident in saying Palms and El Cortez are 1-2 in terms of slot payback in Clark County.Quote: FleaStiffI noted that "our slots are thirty percent looser than the County Average"... no comparison to any other casino. No comparison to Downtown casino averages.
Quote: FleaStiffThe website may not be organized too well, but it is indeed nice to have that information presented. The list of 'The Neighborhood' probably saves them from repetitively answering questions all the time but just might be a decision-making item for some people who decide to stay at the "Hell Cortez" but also check out the nearby whatever.
I noted that "our slots are thirty percent looser than the County Average"... no comparison to any other casino. No comparison to Downtown casino averages.
You could compare the downtown average to the county average and see whether 30% is higher or lower...
Quote: WizardThat was a mixture of old and new material from the writer. I'd be eager to get a verification of the current table counts and limits. Maybe I'll even go there myself today.
I'll do a quick walkthrough today. There was indeed a $1 craps table there last summer.
Slots/Video Poker...... Clark County......Strip......Boulder.....Downtown...NorthLV.
Total.............................6.27%..........7.01%.....5.07%.......6.50%.......5.82%
If these are win rates, does that mean that which was not won was paid out?
Quote: FleaStiff
I noted that "our slots are thirty percent looser than the County Average"... no comparison to any other casino. No comparison to Downtown casino averages.
They will show you some notarized stats to verify the 30%. It's simply a paper that says something like the the average in Clark County is 6% hold and the average in El Cortez is 4.2% hold (i.e. 30% of 6% is 1.8% sp 6%-1.8=4.2%). The real numbers will be very similar.
It is advertising so they are not going to compare the slot hold to downtown, or something less interesting. There is no reason to doubt these numbers.
The table games have a similar advantage over many other casinos.
I agree that the 30% comment is a very bad use of statistics.
Quote: WizardThe writer is supposed to go back there tomorrow to verify the table limits.
I agree that the 30% comment is a very bad use of statistics.
When you go there ask to see the certified paper at the cashier cage where they get the 30%. They won't let you take a copy but there are only two numbers which you can remember. The first is something in the range of 6% for Clark County, and the second will be 4.2% for El Cortez (which is 30% lower). You can post the exact numbers.
Quote: pacomartinWhen you go there ask to see the certified paper at the cashier cage where they get the 30%. They won't let you take a copy but there are only two numbers which you can remember. The first is something in the range of 6% for Clark County, and the second will be 4.2% for El Cortez (which is 30% lower). You can post the exact numbers.
Good idea. I asked about this at least a year ago, and the cashier had no idea what I was talking about. It wasn't that important to me at the time, so I didn't kick up it up higher.
I was also supposed to check the craps felt somewhere, I think the Four Queens?
Quote: WizardI was also supposed to check the craps felt somewhere, I think the Four Queens?
Yes!
Someone made the observation that there were "washboard" like devices on the floor surface, under the felt of the craps tables to greater randomize the rolls. They were underneath the come areas at both ends.
Quote: ten2winSomeone made the observation that there were "washboard" like devices on the floor surface, under the felt of the craps tables to greater randomize the rolls. They were underneath the come areas at both ends.
Here's the link to that thread, What's under the felt?
There is also mention of some kind of randomizer in the craps tables, next door, at Fitzgerald's too.
Quote: dudestupidI was there Thursday afternoon. They had two craps tables at $3 with 10x odds. I didn't notice the roulette.
This was my experience at the El Co as well..$3 with 10x odds. The review said they offered "double odds," which broke my heart. Good to know they're still offering 10x...
Quote: teddysThey can't compare to any other casino because Nevada doesn't release returns of individual casinos. They probably should have compared themselves to the downtown average, but it probably wasn't as impressive a "swing." Palms did the same advertising campaign recently, so they could have reverse-engineered the numbers and compared themselves to Palms. I would be confident in saying Palms and El Cortez are 1-2 in terms of slot payback in Clark County.
How can you be sure that the Palms and El Cortez have the best hold %'s in Vegas? Does someone actually perform studies over every casino? How accurate are the studies (i.e. sample size)?
Quote: IAchance5How can you be sure that the Palms and El Cortez have the best hold %'s in Vegas? Does someone actually perform studies over every casino? How accurate are the studies (i.e. sample size)?
The Palms and El Cortez opened their books to Anthony Curtis from Las Vegas Advisor and the El Cortez hired a firm CDC Consulting to do an analysis.
Quote: Wavy70The Palms and El Cortez opened their books to Anthony Curtis from Las Vegas Advisor and the El Cortez hired a firm CDC Consulting to do an analysis.
Do all Veags casinos do that? Or are they just comparing those numbers to what the published "win" percentages for each of the regions?
Quote: IAchance5Do all Veags casinos do that? Or are they just comparing those numbers to what the published "win" percentages for each of the regions?
Most don't (in fact, the EC and the Palms are the only ones that I'm aware of that have), but the comparisons with the overall numbers are still valid.
Quote: 7winnerA new El Cortez review here at the WoV has some very inaccurate ( I think) Gambling info included.
I was just there 4 weeks ago and have been a regular visitor for over 2 years.
Craps has been a $3 to $1000, 10 times odds table for the longest time. Have never seen $1 craps there.
Most evening both tables are open until shift change when they close one.
I sure hope they have not changed.
They also have 4 roulette tables with 25 cent minimum bets, right next to the $5 min mini-baccarat table.
1 $5 min 3 card poker,
1 $5 min pai-gow poker
I will be there next week to find out for sure.
Did you ever go back to verify these table games there??
Quote: IAchance5Did you ever go back to verify these table games there??
If any review of any casino is more than six minutes old, the number, configuration, and limits of the tables will almost certainly have changed since the review was written. Keep in mind that the reviews were written on a given date, and usually haven't been updated.
It's not so much that those reviews are "inaccurate", as that the Wiz doesn't have the time or resources to revisit every one of the casinos reviewed once a week to count all the blackjack tables.
Quote: IAchance5Did you ever go back to verify these table games there??
I just returned from a 3 day stay at the El Cortez. I am never in Vegas on weekends so this is from tues thru friday.
Craps still during the week a $3 to $1000, 10 times odds table. Both box that I asked about $1 minimum said they have not had $1 craps for over a few years now.
Most evening weekends, as I was told, both tables are open until shift change when they close one.
Lots of fleas and low-lifes play craps at the EC.
Half of the Buy-ins I saw was for $20 and these players were mostly rude, making constant late bets, wanting, wanting and wanting. One fat, white guy... you could tell he just fell off a truck, like me- hehe, bought in for $20, in the middle of a hand, took his sweet time picking up his chips, made a late bet, the dice hit his hand and 7 out the table. I left after that one. I hate scum craps players and there are plenty to go around at the EC.
Watch your chips and bets closley. When only 1 table is open, like most weekdays, the Craps table gets crowed with about 10 players since you can count on a few wheelchairs, walkers and O2 tanks and a few very obese players, both male and female that take up so much room at the rail it is NOT funny.
Most of the dealers are breakins but they have good box at most times.
They also have 4 roulette tables with 25 cent minimum bets, right next to the $5 min mini-baccarat table.
3 table blackjack pit next to the 4 roulette tables- you can not miss the roulette tables. 4 marquees always lit up with the past spins.
$3 min. I hate Blackjack, dealing and playing so I say no more.
They have a few more 21 tables in the main pit around the corner from the cage. One was a min $25 table. Again, no 21 info from me.
1 $5 to $100 min 3 card poker
1 $5 min pai-gow poker
I found playing Craps in the morning and late evening more enjoyable, better group of older players with $100 buy-ins or more and hope to return there soon.
For $3 and $5 minimum bets, EC, they have them.
I.E. Can I have a $3 place bet and get paid $3.50?
Quote: DJTeddyBearIf it's $3 craps, can you bet / press in half-units?
I.E. Can I have a $3 place bet and get paid $3.50?
Yes, they have either 50cent chips or 50 cent coins.
Even saw one player press up $3, to $6 then to $9 and was paid exactly $10.50.
Also, I saw many times points of 5 and 9s with $3 odds and they were paid $4.50.
I also played a lot at The Fremont that is Downtown, where they have only 1 $3 table 24/7 and also 50 cent chips. $3 place 6&8 also paid $3.50.
Quote: 7winnerCraps still during the week a $3 to $1000, 10 times odds table. Both box that I asked about $1 minimum said they have not had $1 craps for over a few years now.
Odd, I'm certain I played $1 craps there about a year ago. They could have done that for graveyard shift or something.
Several of the people there were only doing props; the pass line was too high-rolling for them, I guess.
When their bankrolls got low, they may only bet a buck at a time. Maybe if the table had been crowded, the dealers would have enforced the minimum.
I guess there's no sense in letting them leave with 2 bucks.
Quote: IAchance5Do all Veags casinos do that? Or are they just comparing those numbers to what the published "win" percentages for each of the regions?
I'm quite sure that is the case.
In most casinos, you can place $1 prop bets at a $25 table.Quote: dudestupidLast time I was there, it was $3 minimum, but I guess you only had to bet $1 on prob bets....
Prop bets are like organized side bets. Since they have a high house edge, of course they're gonna let you bet below the table minimum.
The difference is, because they don't have the same high payout potential of a typical side bet, it's not limited like a side bet or Fire Bet....
Quote: WizardI'm quite sure that is the case.
Do you think they take themselves out of the average first? Or do they compare their return % to the mean return % with themselves included in the calculation of the mean? To the extent that they're better than average, they'd look even better if they compared themselves to the average of all others...
Quote: mkl654321Odd, I'm certain I played $1 craps there about a year ago. They could have done that for graveyard shift or something.
Binion's was doing $1 craps, but only after 3AM. El cortez may have been matching them. But they didn't advertise it, the pit boss just made the call after looking at all the empty tables. They do expect you to make every "come" bet and to put at least 5X odds with those minimums. It's kind of fun to get all that action without having to play too much money.
I doubt that the casino cares about odds bets, but the dealers working the table don't want to see you betting a dollar and just hanging out to see if it hits. They know that your just phishing for drinks, and your not going to tip.
$3 Double Deck, $3 shoe game and $3 Double Attack. Craps was 1 table in the afternoon with $3 and 2 tables in the evening with 1 $3 and 1 $5. The craps tables are indeed crowded in the evening but you will find a spot in the afternoon. the $3 double deck BJ table is ALLWAYS full and there a only a few people playing the other 21 games. BTW all BJ's are dealt from a shoe. The $5 baccarat table is mostly empty. I saw ones an Asian gentlemen playing the game with a $25 bet and on another occasion 2 gentlemen 1 placing $25 bets, the other $5. Roulette is also not very popular.
Quote: rdw4potusDo you think they take themselves out of the average first? Or do they compare their return % to the mean return % with themselves included in the calculation of the mean? To the extent that they're better than average, they'd look even better if they compared themselves to the average of all others...
You are right, but the difference would be so small that it wouldn't be worth the confusion. They would also look better if they compared themselves to just the Strip, but once again it would only be a small improvement, and it would make people more suspicious of the ad.
Blackjack is still $5 for the single deck game. Bacc, and I believe Pai Gow too, is $5. Normal rules for both. Low tables available if that appeals to you. Lots of smoke everywhere in the casino. Blackjack gets you one or two rounds before the shuffle. Spread 1-4 with no heat. The atmosphere could be so much better if they could attract a better clientele. They try so hard to be classy, but the fleas just can't be avoided, especially with the Western closing down. The new Parlour bar is especially nice, although I heard some long-time customers were unhappy with it. (What do they know about style? ;P)
Quote: teddysI played a bit at El Cortez this trip. Craps is still $3 with 10x odds. It's not the best place to play craps. The players are fleas, and the dealers are break-ins. Not to say it is a horrible experience, but it isn't great. I lost big, too, so that probably colors my review, but I think I'm somewhat on the ball here.
This is all true. However, since the majority of players are $3 players, then by playing $5, you suddenly look like a big shot. And the pit boss will definitely notice. (The dealers are way too green to notice.) It's easy to get comped here by simply playing $5. Further, if you are tipping, you'll probably be the only person tipping, and you'll get a lot of attention for that as well.
In other words, it's easy to get treated like a big shot while still betting under the limits available on the strip. LOL.
