What's under the felt at Four Queens and Fitzgeralds?
December 2nd, 2010 at 10:42:18 PM
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What's under the felt at Four Queens and Fitzgeralds?
To most DI's it's a well-known fact that the Four Queens have a washboard type of ribs under the felt where the dice lands on all their tables! I posted this a few years back and was surprised with the response I got back from the members of Dice Institute. I said they were cheating everybody that played there. The Dice Institute membership said they weren't cheating, for me it was what the hell is a matter with you all, but I left it go at that when I found that NV has no regulations that spell out how a craps table should be made, or anything about the dice they can use!
I use to work down town and would hit a casino and play some craps after work, if I could find an empty table, the first time I walked into Four Queens I wasn't thinking about anything being under the felt, so I bought in and when I got the dice I made one shot, and my dice didn't react right when they landed!
I stopped dead and walked down to the end of the table and ran my hands over the felt, to find out that they had the washboards under the felt, when asked by the dealers what I was doing, I turned to them and asked the same question, what the hell are you doing with this stuff under the felt. They just laughed and said it was legal.
Time for me to color-up, hey you can't do that you have a pass-line bet, like hell I can't, I picked up all my chips and walked off!
Some time later I was walking through Fitzgerald's nobody was on the table, so I bought in and made one shot, one die shot off to the right like it hit something, so I walked down to the end of the table, and ran my hand over the felt, and felt what was washers or something under the felt!
The dealers asked the same question as to what was I doing, this time I just pushed my chips in and said color me up please as I made a 7 on the come out! I said the same thing you are cheating, the dealers laugh, as I was walking to the cage to get my money back.
That was about two years ago at Fitzgerald's, and I never went back in there again, so I don't know for sure if the still have the washers under the felt in there, but I do know for sure that the wash board ribs are under the felt at the Four Queens!
Take it for what it's worth, I won't play in ether place! Now every table I play on I will rub my hand over the felt where the dice lands!
Just one more thing for you to check out when in Vegas, you decide if you think they are cheating!
..
To most DI's it's a well-known fact that the Four Queens have a washboard type of ribs under the felt where the dice lands on all their tables! I posted this a few years back and was surprised with the response I got back from the members of Dice Institute. I said they were cheating everybody that played there. The Dice Institute membership said they weren't cheating, for me it was what the hell is a matter with you all, but I left it go at that when I found that NV has no regulations that spell out how a craps table should be made, or anything about the dice they can use!
I use to work down town and would hit a casino and play some craps after work, if I could find an empty table, the first time I walked into Four Queens I wasn't thinking about anything being under the felt, so I bought in and when I got the dice I made one shot, and my dice didn't react right when they landed!
I stopped dead and walked down to the end of the table and ran my hands over the felt, to find out that they had the washboards under the felt, when asked by the dealers what I was doing, I turned to them and asked the same question, what the hell are you doing with this stuff under the felt. They just laughed and said it was legal.
Time for me to color-up, hey you can't do that you have a pass-line bet, like hell I can't, I picked up all my chips and walked off!
Some time later I was walking through Fitzgerald's nobody was on the table, so I bought in and made one shot, one die shot off to the right like it hit something, so I walked down to the end of the table, and ran my hand over the felt, and felt what was washers or something under the felt!
The dealers asked the same question as to what was I doing, this time I just pushed my chips in and said color me up please as I made a 7 on the come out! I said the same thing you are cheating, the dealers laugh, as I was walking to the cage to get my money back.
That was about two years ago at Fitzgerald's, and I never went back in there again, so I don't know for sure if the still have the washers under the felt in there, but I do know for sure that the wash board ribs are under the felt at the Four Queens!
Take it for what it's worth, I won't play in ether place! Now every table I play on I will rub my hand over the felt where the dice lands!
Just one more thing for you to check out when in Vegas, you decide if you think they are cheating!
..
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...!
You do good brada ..!
superrick
Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php
...
December 2nd, 2010 at 10:46:41 PM
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Why would another randomiser mean they are cheating?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
December 2nd, 2010 at 11:39:35 PM
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What's your point? Cheating? It's no different than if the roulette dealer spins the balls faster and slower every alternating spin... some guy is going to say "Hey, that's cheating" because he believes that he's able to track the section in which the ball will land... but only if the spins are consistent. I assume you're suggesting that some craps players think they can determine how the dice are going to land... but only if the surface upon which they land is consistent. I suppose the diamonds and the curved end and the chips and the puck are also means by which the house cheats.
A casino manager who has put a washboard under the felt is just as deluded that he can make more for the house and counterract dice setting as the dice setter is that he can determine the outcome of the roll. Neither one realizes that the dice rolls are going to be random no mater what.
For someone who now has the urge to tell me that dice setting "works"... sorry, without any real substantial and quantatative evidence (which no one has ever been able to produce) I just don't buy it... and neither should you.
A casino manager who has put a washboard under the felt is just as deluded that he can make more for the house and counterract dice setting as the dice setter is that he can determine the outcome of the roll. Neither one realizes that the dice rolls are going to be random no mater what.
For someone who now has the urge to tell me that dice setting "works"... sorry, without any real substantial and quantatative evidence (which no one has ever been able to produce) I just don't buy it... and neither should you.
Happiness is underrated
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:27:13 AM
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I would say cheating is not the right word, but it -IS- something that would make me color up and give them the finger (figuratively).
Definitely a bad business decision though, one of the selling points of craps is that it's the same game no matter where you play (except for the odds). Changing this game in anyway just puts people off - it's like if a McDonald's changed their Big Mac (for better or worse).
Definitely a bad business decision though, one of the selling points of craps is that it's the same game no matter where you play (except for the odds). Changing this game in anyway just puts people off - it's like if a McDonald's changed their Big Mac (for better or worse).
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:53:58 AM
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It tells you the casino will go to any lengths, no matter how ridiculous, if their bottom line is threatened. If they could get away with it, they'd load the dice and gaff the roulette wheel, just like in the old days. Yet many think they worry themselves sick over you having a 'good time'. Yeah right. Whatever..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
December 3rd, 2010 at 1:00:37 AM
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Quote: ahiromuI would say cheating is not the right word, but it -IS- something that would make me color up and give them the finger (figuratively).
Definitely a bad business decision though, one of the selling points of craps is that it's the same game no matter where you play (except for the odds). Changing this game in anyway just puts people off - it's like if a McDonald's changed their Big Mac (for better or worse).
But the game is the same. It is as someone else said earlier, an extra randomizer. I've played craps on pool tables, card tables, living room floors, against the wall in the head, on 6-foot, 8-foot, 10-foot, and 12-foot tables and it is the same game. The hop of the dice is the hop of the dice. The odds remain exactly the same.
December 3rd, 2010 at 1:13:31 AM
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I would be more concerned that I was playing a 5x table when within walking distance you have four 10x tables and one 20x table.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
December 3rd, 2010 at 4:37:46 AM
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Cheating? Not at all. Just another means to thwart people who have convinced themselves that they can influence the dice.
If I was such a person, yeah, I'd play elsewhere. But I wouldn't think they are cheating. I'd think they simply believe, like a dice influencer believes, that these things can change the outcomes.
As a person who accepts that every roll is completely random, it wouldn't bother me either way.
If I was such a person, yeah, I'd play elsewhere. But I wouldn't think they are cheating. I'd think they simply believe, like a dice influencer believes, that these things can change the outcomes.
As a person who accepts that every roll is completely random, it wouldn't bother me either way.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 3rd, 2010 at 5:38:20 AM
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Quote: superrickI stopped dead and walked down to the end of the table and ran my hands over the felt, to find out that they had the washboards under the felt
You mean that they didn't have "washboards" where you were shooting from?
Come on, if it was anything close to "washboards," the felt would show the ribs after just a short time. And then, wouldn't the soft felt help to slow down the dice?
December 3rd, 2010 at 5:54:58 AM
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That is like putting extra frets on the roulette wheel... they can do it if they want to, but it won't make random any more random if they do it.
There are standards for how much wax you can put on a bowling lane, but no standards for a craps table's bounce.
There are standards for how much wax you can put on a bowling lane, but no standards for a craps table's bounce.
December 3rd, 2010 at 7:05:02 AM
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Assuming dice control (or influence, manipulation, setting, voodoo, or whatever you preffer to call it) is real and can be achieved on a regular basis, then the casino is entitled to fight that player skill within the bounds of good sportsmanship.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
December 3rd, 2010 at 7:10:39 AM
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Well at the Four Queens you can see the washboard ribs, if the felt is a old felt, it does show!
The way I would look at this is on table (A) everybody get 6 roll's out of 36 that are 7's table, (A) is down the street at Golden Nugget!
Now at table (B) everybody gets 8 roll's out of 36 that are 7's, that table is at Four Queens!
Which table would you play at?
Quote: SanchoPanzaYou mean that they didn't have "washboards" where you were shooting from?
Come on, if it was anything close to "washboards," the felt would show the ribs after just a short time. And then, wouldn't the soft felt help to slow down the dice?
The way I would look at this is on table (A) everybody get 6 roll's out of 36 that are 7's table, (A) is down the street at Golden Nugget!
Now at table (B) everybody gets 8 roll's out of 36 that are 7's, that table is at Four Queens!
Which table would you play at?
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...!
You do good brada ..!
superrick
Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php
...
December 3rd, 2010 at 7:18:44 AM
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Quote: superrickNow at table (B) everybody gets 8 roll's out of 36 that are 7's, that table is at Four Queens!
Which table would you play at?
I'll be there in just a couple of weeks if that's accurate. Here's hoping that when they rate don't bettors they include the odds.
December 3rd, 2010 at 8:51:44 AM
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Quote: superrickThe way I would look at this is on table (A) everybody get 6 roll's out of 36 that are 7's table, (A) is down the street at Golden Nugget!
Now at table (B) everybody gets 8 roll's out of 36 that are 7's, that table is at Four Queens!
Which table would you play at?
I would immediately and forever more play at the Four Queens and either bet the don't, hop the 7's, or play whatever bet or combination of bets would win me the most money in the shortest amount of time. Are you serious? That's no different than asking what I'd do if I knew that a roulette wheel hit 20 black numbers and 16 red numbers every 36 spins... I suppose you's say the joint was cheating and look for a "fair" table elsewhere?
Having washboard ribs on the craps layout doesn't change the odds of any number being rolled. It doesn't change your odds of winning on the pass or don't pass. It doesn't change anything regarding the outcome of the game. So, what's the issue?
Happiness is underrated
December 3rd, 2010 at 9:23:47 AM
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Ultimately though, if Superrick don't like playing on a table with a washboard... then it's his money, and he can go elsewhere. You should at least like the joint your in if it's for recreation. If you think your making money, then it shouldn't matter... and if you think, falsely or not, the game is more against you than it should be, you should leave.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
December 3rd, 2010 at 9:55:04 AM
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In my post here from last August, I reported a Mississippi table where the dice bounced straight left every time I tossed them. I suspected that something was "off" with the table, but I couldn't conceive of a way that it would result in non-random outcomes. I was just annoyed that the dice had a tendency to go off the table to the side! I hit the base dealer in the chest at least twice.Quote: superrick... when I got the dice I made one shot, and my dice didn't react right when they landed! ...
December 3rd, 2010 at 10:11:09 AM
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Quote: superrickThe way I would look at this is on table (A) everybody get 6 roll's out of 36 that are 7's table, (A) is down the street at Golden Nugget!
Now at table (B) everybody gets 8 roll's out of 36 that are 7's, that table is at Four Queens!
Which table would you play at?
Obviously I'd play at the one that gives me the edge over the house. That'd be table B.
Fuzzy math aside, let's look at the statute:
NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:
1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;
(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or
(d) The value of a wagering credit.
NRS 465.083 Cheating. It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game.
You're wrong that the ribs are meaningfully altering the elements of chance which determine the frequency of a 7. But if they did, the casino would be on the hook for cheating.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
December 3rd, 2010 at 10:16:25 AM
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Thank you for the information superrick. I appreciate that shooters attempt to minimize the influence of the "randomizers" in hopes of gaining even one throw their way in a hundred. Players should be aware of all the countermeasures they are up against.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
December 3rd, 2010 at 11:01:13 AM
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Players have no need to be concerned.Quote: AyecarumbaPlayers should be aware of all the countermeasures they are up against.
Only precision dice throwers need to worry about it.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:34:29 PM
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Quote: MathExtremist...let's look at the statute:
NRS 465.015 Definitions. As used in this chapter:
1. “Cheat” means to alter the elements of chance, method of selection or criteria which determine:
(a) The result of a game;
(b) The amount or frequency of payment in a game;
(c) The value of a wagering instrument; or
(d) The value of a wagering credit.
NRS 465.083 Cheating. It is unlawful for any person, whether the person is an owner or employee of or a player in an establishment, to cheat at any gambling game.
We all know it's illegal to cheat. What we don't know is if the rules are adhered to. Can you cite any examples of the statute being enforced?
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:43:34 PM
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Quote: HeadlockWe all know it's illegal to cheat. What we don't know is if the rules are adhered to. Can you cite any examples of the statute being enforced?
The Venetian just got fined $1M for rigging a drawing in favor or a whale.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:46:26 PM
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Quote: AyecarumbaThe Venetian just got fined $1M for rigging a drawing in favor or a whale.
Good one! Any examples of NGC checking dice or the craps table itself?
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:46:34 PM
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I think MathExtremist's point was, what they are doing by messing with the table design, is not cheating.Quote: HeadlockWe all know it's illegal to cheat. What we don't know is if the rules are adhered to. Can you cite any examples of the statute being enforced?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:54:05 PM
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Quote: HeadlockGood one! Any examples of NGC checking dice or the craps table itself?
I wonder about the dice. From what I have gathered, casinos purchase them from manufacturers with very high standards, so Gaming Enforcement doesn't spend a lot of resources on field testing. However, I would be very interested in this report if it were published.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
December 3rd, 2010 at 12:56:35 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI think MathExtremist's point was, what they are doing by messing with the table design, is not cheating.
I know, I took it out of context and reformed it to my own.
MY POINT is we all know there are regulations designed to prohibit casinos from cheating, but how are those regulations enforced?
Have you ever tried to pocket one of the dice from a casino craps game? In my experience, if one or both dice go off the table, the box person doesn't stop looking until they are both found. I once witnessed security moving tables and slot machines to find a die that had gone missing. I suspect surveillance was reviewing the tapes to see who might have picked it up.
But it's just a cheap piece of plastic. Why should they care if a die gets lost?
December 3rd, 2010 at 1:17:24 PM
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Those pieces of plastic aren't actually that cheap ($12 retail for a stick of casino quality dice, while gamers dice can be had for a dime a piece, and mass manufactured they are down to pennies a unit). However, saving the casino a couple of bucks isn't the reason. It's to stop the dice being taken, altered then re-introduced.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
December 3rd, 2010 at 3:39:57 PM
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Quote: HeadlockGood one! Any examples of NGC checking dice or the craps table itself?
They won't check dice. Dice are not regulated by the NGCB the way they are in other jurisdictions. Casinos in NV can buy their dice anywhere they want.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
December 3rd, 2010 at 4:29:06 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistThey won't check dice. Dice are not regulated by the NGCB the way they are in other jurisdictions. Casinos in NV can buy their dice anywhere they want.
I'm very surprised to hear this. If this is true, then there must be some inspection at the manufacturer to ensure the fairness of the dice. Aren't casinos required to keep track of the serial numbers of the dice used (when they were brought into, and taken out of service)? I recall that there is a book that they are supposed to keep which tracks these sorts of things. (of course I may have fallen asleep in front of the TV when Oceans 13 was on).
If there is no threat of inspection, what prevents a casino from introducing crooked dice?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
December 3rd, 2010 at 8:03:14 PM
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Betting on the Don'ts.Quote: AyecarumbaIf there is no threat of inspection, what prevents a casino from introducing crooked dice?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 3rd, 2010 at 11:49:39 PM
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Sure are a lot of people missing the point here. If indeed the table causes 8 7's out of 36 rolls, then you can make some serious money playing the don'ts. Everytime some Vegas local comes up with a claim about hinky dice or whatever, someone always asks about playing the don'ts. The result is always deathly silence. Me, I'd play the don'ts and double my net worth every month or so!!!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
December 4th, 2010 at 12:11:20 AM
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DeMango
The next time you come to town, I will be more that willing to met you at the Four Queens, to see you double your net worth, the sevens on the come out will kill you, just like eveybody else that plays there!
I have seen some of what I would consider the best don't players in Vegas get killed, you have no more advantage then a right player!
Nobody was writing about Biased dice just that they have washboards under the felt there!
They don't have darkside players lining up at any tables, and the ones I see lose just like the right side players!
If I was you, I would be hopping on the first plane out of Fl. headed to Vegas, to double your net worth!
LOL superrick
The next time you come to town, I will be more that willing to met you at the Four Queens, to see you double your net worth, the sevens on the come out will kill you, just like eveybody else that plays there!
I have seen some of what I would consider the best don't players in Vegas get killed, you have no more advantage then a right player!
Nobody was writing about Biased dice just that they have washboards under the felt there!
They don't have darkside players lining up at any tables, and the ones I see lose just like the right side players!
If I was you, I would be hopping on the first plane out of Fl. headed to Vegas, to double your net worth!
LOL superrick
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...!
You do good brada ..!
superrick
Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction
http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php
...
December 4th, 2010 at 4:10:11 AM
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There's no way a table can do that when using fair dice. Probably not with crooked dice either. All the weird stuff under the table can do is throw off a precision dice thrower, and make his rolls more random, as intended.Quote: DeMangoSure are a lot of people missing the point here. If indeed the table causes 8 7's out of 36 rolls...
Crooked dice are a separate issue. And the opportunity to bet the Don'ts is the mechanism for keeping the casinos honest about the dice.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
December 4th, 2010 at 5:10:23 AM
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Quote: superrickDeMango
The next time you come to town, I will be more that willing to met you at the Four Queens, to see you double your net worth, the sevens on the come out will kill you, just like eveybody else that plays there!
I have seen some of what I would consider the best don't players in Vegas get killed, you have no more advantage then a right player!
Nobody was writing about Biased dice just that they have washboards under the felt there!
They don't have darkside players lining up at any tables, and the ones I see lose just like the right side players!
If I was you, I would be hopping on the first plane out of Fl. headed to Vegas, to double your net worth!
LOL superrick
If you think extra 7s on the come out will kill you playing the don't pass then skip the come come out and just lay a number. What's your answer to that one?
The fact is the so called washboards make no difference whatsoever. You're just another superstitious gambler who is oblivious to reality. 7 or 8 years ago we had a guy at my local casino who would record the 3 digit serial number on the set of dice they would use each day as if one set were worse for the player than another. We all had a good laugh at that one, probably in much the same way as many people are doing with this one.
December 4th, 2010 at 5:21:23 AM
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If you were to lay the 10 for $100 + $2 vig and with 120 rolls per hour that would be about $200 per hour. If they would let you, shouldn't be any problem doubling your net worth in a month. Hold on Rick, we are on our way!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
December 4th, 2010 at 5:30:46 AM
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Off-topic.
This seems to be a popular thread and since I don't want to start a new thread unnecessarily - is there a thread somewhere that discusses the various funding options for off-shore casinos?
Thanks
This seems to be a popular thread and since I don't want to start a new thread unnecessarily - is there a thread somewhere that discusses the various funding options for off-shore casinos?
Thanks
December 4th, 2010 at 5:35:19 AM
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Quote: Wavy70I would be more concerned that I was playing a 5x table when within walking distance you have four 10x tables and one 20x table.
EXACTLY.
December 4th, 2010 at 6:03:58 AM
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Quote: superrickWell at the Four Queens you can see the washboard ribs, if the felt is a old felt, it does show!
The way I would look at this is on table (A) everybody get 6 roll's out of 36 that are 7's table, (A) is down the street at Golden Nugget!
Now at table (B) everybody gets 8 roll's out of 36 that are 7's, that table is at Four Queens!
Which table would you play at?
Can someone figure out the player advantage on the don't with max odds? Thanks
December 4th, 2010 at 8:04:19 AM
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Quote: superrickThe next time you come to town, I will be more that willing to met you at the Four Queens, to see you double your net worth, the sevens on the come out will kill you, just like eveybody else that plays there!
If a table is showing 8/36 chance of rolling a 7, just bet on Any 7 at 4-1 and have a 11% player edge. If you think the Four Queens table is rigged to show this many 7s, why aren't you there with black chips on the Any 7, making hundreds of dollars per hour?
In reality, the chances of the 7 on the table at the Four Queens is still 6 in 36. The bumps under the table have the same effect as the bumps at the edge of the table - they ensure uniform randomness of the dice. They don't cause the dice results to be biased somehow.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
January 16th, 2011 at 12:10:47 AM
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I agree with many previous posts that this is pretty obviously just something that disrupts the dice to randomize it. Just like pointed rubber matts at the end. How could it possibly cause certain rolls to appear more often? More importantly- some numbers coming up more often would make some bets player advantageous. It appears to me that the only way to consistently make sure every bet is an advantage to the house is to play with fair random dice. Clearly the goal is to prevent effective dice control, if dice control is possible. It is nothing for a non-dice control player to be worried about. For the record I am unconvinced about the effectiveness of dice control, but it is hypothetically possible.
As I think about it, I would use something similar at any craps tables at any casino I would hypothetically run. In combination with 200x odds on bets of $25 or more for the notoriety (or similar).
As I think about it, I would use something similar at any craps tables at any casino I would hypothetically run. In combination with 200x odds on bets of $25 or more for the notoriety (or similar).
January 16th, 2011 at 5:54:10 AM
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So if the precision thrower advantage is such a myth, then why do the casinos feel they have to place anything under the felt in the first place? Seems they are just losing the type of customer they can really make some money off of.
January 16th, 2011 at 5:58:14 AM
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Casinos appear to be extremely paranoid about anyone possibly ever gaining any advantage over them (unless they offer it explicitly), real or perceived. This is the same as banning amateur counters who use too low a spread to even seriously dent the house advantage, and so actually keep bringing in profit. They want to prevent you from even having a thought about beating the house. Why? No idea. Maybe they know something I don't.
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January 16th, 2011 at 7:14:57 AM
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Quote: WizardI was also supposed to check the craps felt somewhere, I think the Four Queens?
The Wizard was supposed to check on the felt situation last month when he was Downtown checking out the EC. Something about the EC slots being advertised as being "30% looser" than the county average?
I don't know everything but I know a lot.
January 16th, 2011 at 7:40:50 PM
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Quote: fwtxbevoSo if the precision thrower advantage is such a myth, then why do the casinos feel they have to place anything under the felt in the first place? Seems they are just losing the type of customer they can really make some money off of.
Maybe they think dice control is real. Maybe they doubt it is real but are rational enough to consider the possibility that it is real. Either way, they just want you to play their rigged games. I'd add randomizers and I don't think dice control is very effective, though I am not sure.
January 17th, 2011 at 9:22:37 PM
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Quote: ten2winThe Wizard was supposed to check on the felt situation last month when he was Downtown checking out the EC. Something about the EC slots being advertised as being "30% looser" than the county average?
I'm planning to see what the fuss is about tomorrow in the early afternoon.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
January 17th, 2011 at 9:57:18 PM
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Watch it turn out to be that the casino had this real cheap purchasing agent a few years ago and he bought a real cheap craps table but there is nothing at all which the casino has done to it in some nefarious manner to cheat the players.
After all, bouncing the dice randomly is what the casino wants ... so if there is anything giving them an extra bounce its not affecting the results, just keeping them random.
I doubt the casino really thinks dice control works and has taken some sort of counter measure.
Now if the table happens to be more or less bouncy than other tables around ... that is a sure sign that rumors about this being "proof" that dice control works are sure to come.
After all, bouncing the dice randomly is what the casino wants ... so if there is anything giving them an extra bounce its not affecting the results, just keeping them random.
I doubt the casino really thinks dice control works and has taken some sort of counter measure.
Now if the table happens to be more or less bouncy than other tables around ... that is a sure sign that rumors about this being "proof" that dice control works are sure to come.
January 17th, 2011 at 10:06:12 PM
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If anybody wants to meet me about 2PM tomorrow for my bouncy table test, PM me.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
February 11th, 2011 at 5:02:40 AM
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I finally made it downtown and remember to check the craps table at the Four Queens. I felt the middle of the table first, and it was nice and flat. Then I felt about six inches from the end, and it was indeed bumpy under the felt. That about says it all.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
February 11th, 2011 at 9:43:43 AM
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Quote: WizardI finally made it downtown and remember to check the craps table at the Four Queens. I felt the middle of the table first, and it was nice and flat. Then I felt about six inches from the end, and it was indeed bumpy under the felt. That about says it all.
Could they lose their gaming license because of this?
February 11th, 2011 at 9:44:36 AM
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I dont think there are any specific gaming regulations on what the tables have to be made out of
February 11th, 2011 at 10:06:13 AM
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Quote: JIMMYFOCKERCould they lose their gaming license because of this?
Why would that be a question? How would it make the game unfair?
It's more like changing the color of the felt to red. Some shooters might say that affects their throws.
