Mukke
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November 27th, 2023 at 8:31:00 PM permalink
Inspired by the thread on wiring money to casino cage (https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/38727-opinions-on-wiring-money-to-casino-cage/#post909507) I was curious if anyone has any experience or advice on the following conundrum:

When I go to Vegas, I bring a fair amount of cash. However, I don't feel comfortable bringing the entire bank, obviously.

Normally this is fine, but on my last trip I had to make the tough decision to pass on a good play, because I knew there there was a non-zero chance that I would run out of cash before completing it.

So: What is the solution other people use to have access to sufficient funds away from home?

I don't have first hand experience with the concept of markers or casino credit (not even sure if this is the same or technically different concepts).

Also, there are quite a few casinos in Vegas. If the solution is to do some kind of paper work before hand, I would hate having to do this with each of the 10-15 casinos I might find myself in. Is this necessary? Would it be possible to at least have a single arrangement with MGM and a single arrangement with Caesars?

Finally, for the situation on my last trip: Is it possible to get credit/marker/whatever in real time, or does that process take 24+ hours?
Ace2
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November 27th, 2023 at 8:49:25 PM permalink
Just get a marker. Itís very easy

Get a large limit at one central casino. Use that llmit to get funds for wherever you want to play
Itís all about making that GTA
calwatch
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November 27th, 2023 at 9:01:04 PM permalink
Generally they don't like you taking a marker and moving it around, though they might be fine with it within the same chain. However, once you're established at one casino, it should be fairly easy to open up markers at most others.
Ace2
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November 27th, 2023 at 9:28:08 PM permalink
How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
Itís all about making that GTA
ChumpChange
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November 27th, 2023 at 9:54:25 PM permalink
People are getting sick of illegal civil asset forfeiture being perpetrated under color of authority at road stops or in airports even for domestic flights. It's out of control. Do casinos accept postal money orders of $9,500 made out to yourself? Seems cops have a hard time confiscating those successfully for profit.

If I had a string of $2,000 buy-ins I wanted to do, I'd buy a bunch of $2,000 postal money orders and bring those and cash one in for each session started.
Money orders are capped at $1,000, so there's none bigger, but there's more to buy.

https://www.capitalone.com/learn-grow/money-management/what-is-a-money-order/
How much is a money order?
Money order prices differ depending on where you buy them. Fees for money orders are usually based on the money orderís dollar amount and are typically between $1 and $5.

How to pay for a money order
You can typically pay for money orders using cash or a debit card. Because issuers often want the cash upfront, they may not accept a personal check or credit card.

Even if a credit card is accepted, your card issuer could consider it a type of cash advance. And if it does, you generally will pay a fee for it and may be charged interest from the transaction date. Plus, if the added balance of a cash advance sits unpaid for a while, it could also hurt your credit scores. Check your credit card agreement to see what types of transactions might be considered a cash advance.

How to cash or deposit a money order
If you convert the money order to cash, you may be able to avoid fees by taking it to the provider that issued it. For example, the Postal Service says you can cash its money orders for free by visiting a post office. If you go to a check-cashing store to cash a money order, there may be a fee.

Depending on the bank, you might also be able to deposit your money order. But you may have to visit a physical location to do it.
**********************************
Alternatives to a money order
Money orders can be useful, but they may not be right for every situation.

Cashierís check
Cashierís checks are another way to make payments with guaranteed funds. With a cashierís check, money is taken directly from your checking account, which usually means you need an account with the issuer and enough money to complete the transaction.

Typically, a cashierís check is a popular alternative for larger payments where personal checks and cash may not be an option. They are issued and signed by a financial institution representative. So not only are cashierís checks guaranteed, theyíre also widely accepted and safe.

Wire transfer
A wire transfer is an electronic transfer of funds from one bank, credit union or financial services company directly to another. It allows people in different locations to exchange money without cash or a check. You have to pay for the transfer upfront and provide information to the institution, like the recipientís name and bank details.

Generally, domestic wire transfers take one to three business days, while international wire transfers can take two to five business days. They may come with a fee, depending on the bank.

ACH transfer
Like a wire transfer, an ACH transfer is a type of electronic payment. Itís used for things like direct deposits, online bill pay and more.

ACH transfers are processed through the National Automated Clearing House Association and are regulated by the federal government.
**********************************************************************************
So cross cashier's checks off my list unless it came from a casino. I thought it was something I could prepay. But no, it had to come from a bank account.
I'd mention traveler's checks but I'm afraid of how much they've fallen into disfavor in the digital age over the past 15 years or so.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Nov 27, 2023
Dieter
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November 28th, 2023 at 12:10:36 AM permalink
Quote: Mukke


So: What is the solution other people use to have access to sufficient funds away from home?
link to original post



Not Vegas specific:
My Ex-Father-In-Law and I were travelling cross country when we stumbled upon a truck he wanted to buy. The seller would only take cash. (More than a few days ATM limit.)
xFIL telephoned his home bank* and asked how they were going to get this done. 20 minutes later, his banker was telling him which local to us bank to go to, who to ask for, and a rough list of instructions. About 2 hours later (we may have stopped for lunch), we were counting cash into the truck seller's hand and taking the title down to the local DMV to get transferred and tagged.

My problem is usually in the opposite direction - depositing a stack of cash into a credit union account when I'm 1000 miles from home. "Shared branch" helps with this, but the daily withdrawal limits don't help me get cash money to play. You have to ask your credit union if they participate and possibly which network. You may also need to establish accounts at a participating institution, as some places don't play.

*: It may have been a credit union.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AZDuffman
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:41:22 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Just get a marker. Itís very easy

Get a large limit at one central casino. Use that llmit to get funds for wherever you want to play
link to original post



Agree, best way. Be aware that they may limit where you can use it. For example, you will probably not be allowed to play poker with it.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
unJon
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:55:39 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post



Try taking large denomination chips from one casino to another. The second casino will call the first to verify them. When they learn that you have an outstanding marker, good luck getting to play them. And good luck with the first casino as you have now violated your marker agreement.

Just get marker in each of the 10-15 casinos you might play at. Note that each marker requires a credit score, and I believe it is a hard pull so will impact your credit score temporarily.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Mental
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:15:39 AM permalink
A marker is what you take out to access your credit line. Assuming you can get credit with a casino, there are two ways to get your credit decision revoked.

The obvious one is having the check bounce. When you take out a marker you are really signing a postdated check. The funds better be in the checking account when the check is sent out to your bank or you need to pay back the marker with cash before it is sent to the bank. I have gone to the cage and been told the check is already gone. They won't take cash after that point. I have made the mistake of forgetting which bank a marker is written against. Keep careful track if you have more than one checking account.

The second mistake is 'walking with a marker' and getting caught. If you take a marker at casino A and walk to casino B, you need to either play a substantial amount at casino A the same day or pay the marker back promptly when you are done with your opportunity at casino B. You can either pay them back in cash or tell them your plans changed and they should send the marker out to your bank right away. They might not like hearing the latter, but if the check clears normally, then they might not hold it against you. What the casinos don't want is to take a credit risk with you and then have you blow the money gambling at another property. I am sure that has happened many times with degen gamblers.

Typically, I have been given two weeks for markers less than $10,000 and 45 days for larger checks. I suppose there might be other time frames for larger markers.
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AZDuffman
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:32:08 AM permalink
Quote: Mental



Typically, I have been given two weeks for markers less than $10,000 and 45 days for larger checks. I suppose there might be other time frames for larger markers.
link to original post



Usually a larger marker has more time to pay. May seem backwards but when they know you are good for $50000 they know it is actually less risk than someone good for $1,000.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Wizard
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November 28th, 2023 at 6:36:59 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post



That used to be fairly true, but I find no longer. Granted, I've only tested this for black and less and have been denied to exchange them.

As to the original question, I agree with others that say to get a line of credit at multiple casinos. A hassle, but the alternatives are probably worse.

I suppose you could also look into getting a safe deposit box somewhere in Vegas and store cash in it. Downsides are you'd earn no interest and I heard some such anonymous vault place got robbed a while back.
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lilredrooster
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November 28th, 2023 at 6:42:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post



That used to be fairly true, but I find no longer. Granted, I've only tested this for black and less and have been denied to exchange them.
link to original post


I don't quite understand
you are stating that they would not exchange your black chips for cash_________?
then doesn't that mean that your only other choice would be to play more with them and lose them or win more black chips which they also wouldn't exchange_____?
wouldn't that mean that your black chips were basically worthless__________?

I really don't get it - I must be missing something

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
SOOPOO
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November 28th, 2023 at 7:50:28 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post



That used to be fairly true, but I find no longer. Granted, I've only tested this for black and less and have been denied to exchange them.
link to original post


I don't quite understand
you are stating that they would not exchange your black chips for cash_________?
then doesn't that mean that your only other choice would be to play more with them and lose them or win more black chips which they also wouldn't exchange_____?
wouldn't that mean that your black chips were basically worthless__________?

I really don't get it - I must be missing something

.
link to original post



I think he is saying MGM wonít honor Caesarís black chips. Not Caesars wonít honor Caesars black chips.
MDawg
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lilredroosterChumpChangecalwatch
November 28th, 2023 at 9:27:34 AM permalink
When you pull a marker at a given casino that casino is lending you the chips for use only at their casino. If you "walk with the chips" (meaning, walk without paying off the marker at the table) and then try to cash the chips either at their casino or any other casino, and the issuing casino finds out about it, they will call your marker due immediately.

Also, if you pull a marker and don't play at all, they may also call your marker due immediately, because their system shows no loss. If you pull a marker and win, and then don't pay it back, that is also called "walking with chips" and the casino may call your marker due immediately.

These are facts that unless you've had experience with markers, you would not know.

And then as far as trying to cash chips - anywhere - when you have not won and are simply "walking with chips" this is not allowed either. A casino will not allow you to cash any chips while you have a marker outstanding, and again, if you get away with it and they figure it out, they will call your marker due immediately. One way they figure it out is simply if you pull a marker, and don't play, and still owe it - that alone might get them to call it due immediately.

Now as far as cashing the chips, either at the issuing casino or elsewhere, you'd have an easier time trying to do this at the issuing casino, but the issuing casino won't let you cash much chips and no high denomination ones, without seeing your player card or ID. Once they see that if a marker is outstanding, obviously they won't cash any chips at all.

That's not to say that you can't get away with cashing some chips while owing markers, but you'd have to do this slowly and under the radar and at risk of losing your credit line if they figure out you've done this, which one way they could figure it out is simply if you still owe a marker and haven't even played, in which case, as noted above, they may call the marker due immediately.

Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post


This and Ace2's other suggestion about getting just one credit line at one casino and then using that line to play all over town are complete misstatements. C'mon Ace2 you don't want people leaving the Tangiers with your funds to play elsewhere, do you?

As far as trying to use what's called "foreign" chips at a different casino, foreign chips may not be used at the tables at all. At the casino cage, they might let you get away with cashing a few hundred dollars in foreign chips, but much more than that they will ask for your player card for the foreign casino or ID and then call the issuing foreign casino to make sure you don't owe any markers before they will cash them.

And also, keep in mind the general rule of that unless you have negotiated something different, almost all of the casinos in Vegas will temporarily shut down your credit line if you cash too many chips during a winning run. Typically, they'll let you cash maybe 10% of your win for "walking around money" but not more. If they get wind of your cashing more than that, your line will be shut down for anywhere from 3 - 7 days. And again, we are talking about verified win chips - if you haven't won anything and still owe markers the issuing casino will not let you cash any chips at all.

As far as how long markers are extended, most of the time 30 days. If $100,000 (not $50,000 but $100,000) or more, 60 days. If higher than that, by negotiation. And again - if they figure out that you "walked with chips" - either did not play or won and did not pay the marker off - they may call it due immediately.
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Mental
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November 28th, 2023 at 10:17:58 AM permalink
I don't disagree with anything MDawg says in his post. I have never pulled a marker for chips. I always get cash. I have never taken more than $20,000 in one transaction. I don't know what behavior they enforce with large markers for chips.

I can walk with marker cash and I have walked with $10,000. Nobody has stopped me at the door. However, I have never gone straight from the cage to the door. I always put some of the new cash into a game or two before heading out the door. Once, I had to wake up my wife at 6am to slow play a progressive game while I went to another casino to pull a marker. While putting in token play at the second casino with $5,000 in fresh cash, I hit a $8,000 Royal. Once I got paid off I went back to the first casino and finished off the play. (A $15,999 must hit progressive finally hit at $15,994.) I then went back to the issuing casino ASAP and paid the marker off and did enough play to make them happy.

So, while I have technically walked with markers, I always try to make it right ASAP. If I do not have cash to pay off the marker the same day and I have not lost at the issuing casino, then I will call in my own marker before the casino does it. That is, I will go to the cage and ask them to send the marker to my bank. If I have left town, I will call the credit desk and ask them to send the marker to the bank.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 10:56:06 AM permalink
Depending on what line of work you're in, it's not such a good idea to have casino markers running through your accounts. The Bank then gets wind of that you're gambling because those marker checks are noticeable when they pass through your account.

If you end up losing and have to pay off the line, a personal check made out to a casino or even a cashier's check (you may make it payable to yourself and then sign it over to the casino), is better. Personal checks especially these days just pass through electronically, but those casino marker checks are out of the ordinary and are sometimes checked manually.

It sounds like you're a machine player. I play table games only.

Obviously at the tables they are not going to hand anyone cash for a marker.

The concept of "walking with chips" would apply to "walking with cash." It simply means that you pulled credit and either did not play or won, and then did not pay off your line. In that situation the casino may call the marker due immediately. It happened to me once when I had multiple sessions during a trip at a casino, and kept cashing out for winning checks. (This is at a casino where I have negotiated that I am allowed to cash out any amount without having them temp close my line.) Then on the last session I lost and just left town, didn't think about it, figured I'd pay the marker off from that session within a month (it wasn't a big marker, was under 50K). Then I got the call that I had "walked with chips," because the casino showed a big win for the trip (the trip being the combination of those several winning sessions plus one losing one) and needed to pay the marker off immediately, which I handled.

I'd also think that in your situation if you keep pulling cash and then showing not much play at the casino, someone would eventually have a talk with you, but if you pay the markers off quickly, not drag them out 30, they might not care, because that might just mean that you decided against playing. But, maybe you're saying that you always play at least some at the casino that handed you the cash.

Anyway, if you're handed cash playing the game you seem to be playing to make the casino think you're using their money entirely in house would be easier. If you're handed chips and intend to use those chips at another casino, that game isn't going to be so easy to play. With me, with zero history of machine play if I started asking for cash at the cage for my markers, it would raise flags.
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ChumpChange
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November 28th, 2023 at 11:14:36 AM permalink
If you try to establish yourself as a professional gambler, maybe you want markers to be debited from your bank account or wins to be credited to your bank account once daily as session reports. But banks are skittish about their customers, I don't know who they want for customers or who they don't.
Mental
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November 28th, 2023 at 11:18:03 AM permalink
Two things that I will add.

Try to see it from the casinos point of view. After all, they are extending credit to a degen gambler. They need to have some rules to protect themselves and for the credit manager to explain to his bosses what he is doing to protect the casino's interests. Try not to make the credit manager sweat your handling of the funds drawn on a marker.

If you are bankrolling a significant other, try to keep track of which of you is doing the winning and losing. I can pull a $5K marker and we might lose it all in a few hours. It might turn out that the casino has me down as a winner because my SO has lost $8K. Then, I might need to take action even though I/we lost all of the money.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 11:31:46 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

If you try to establish yourself as a professional gambler, maybe you want markers to be debited from your bank account or wins to be credited to your bank account once daily as session reports. But banks are skittish about their customers, I don't know who they want for customers or who they don't.
link to original post


Also, as I wrote in my blog on getting casino credit
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/mdawg/blog/#post1785
and UnJon pointed out above, when you first apply for a credit line the casino will hard pull your credit (although, at least when I got my line at one of the majors in 2018/2019, that casino did a soft pull only). In Vegas, they all seem to pull Experian. So, if you're getting credit lines especially from multiple casinos, for a couple years there you will have a visible stack of inquiries on your Experian from casinos.

Lenders know what that means. So do employers if they run your credit. And the government if you need security clearance for something.

Fortunately, the follow up credit pulls the casinos do at least once a year are all soft pulls, which are not visible to the outside world.

So my advice if you want multiple credit lines is to get them all at around the same time. Then after a couple years your credit report will be clear of any casino inquiries.
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 11:49:51 AM permalink
Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post

This post was not theoretical. Iíve used my Aria marker to get chips and then cash them. Several times recently

Real example: Soon after arriving in Vegas I walk up to a $25 or $50 craps table and get $3,000 in chips with a marker using my drivers license (I donít do players cards/clubs). Play for a short time, go up or down a few hundred bucks, then color up and leave. This is normal behavior irrespective of marker use. Donít like the table, time for dinner, whatever. Then I go cash the chips and use the cash however/wherever I want. Even if I wasnít leaving Aria I still might cash out because itís very easy for a yellow chip to fall out of your pocketÖI prefer carrying cash in my wallet unless Iím going directly to another table

Never once have I had a problem doing this. So far Iíve always paid the maker before leaving Vegas. And I never got a warning like ďthe secret police have been following you 24/7 and saw you cash chips obtained via a markerÖfinal warningĒ. I just looked at my marker agreement and there is no ďcallĒ provision. Itís very simple: I have x amount of available credit and unpaid markers will be directly debited to my bank account if not paid in x days after issuance. MDawg, by ďcallĒ do you mean debit it immediately to your bank account in violation of the days stipulated in the marker agreement? I call bullsh*t on that

If I was cashing in a few hundred thousand dollars of chips then it would probably be another story. But Iím just a random chump cashing in a few thousand dollarsÖno ID required

Incidentally, I donít see my behavior as a scam at all. The reason you get a marker somewhere is because you do tend to stay/gamble there a lot. But I will never participate in any program that somehow obligates me to a play/stay/dine at specific place. Itís my money and Iím going to use it however I want. If a casino float me a very short term loan, itís still my money and it will be paid back to the casino in days
Itís all about making that GTA
lilredrooster
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November 28th, 2023 at 12:22:39 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

But banks are skittish about their customers, I don't know who they want for customers or who they don't.
link to original post


these are reports about consumers who have had trouble using their banks consistently for casino business
it's not just two stories - there are several others you will find if you search

the first story is about banks in the UK . - the 2nd story is about U.S. banks

https://igamingbusiness.com/legal-compliance/regulation/gamblers-consumer-forum/

https://www.bettingusa.com/us-banks-online-gambling/

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 1:46:57 PM permalink
Ace2 you're talking about a few thousand dollars. Also your original post was about how "chips are a form of cash" implying that you could take those few thousand in foreign chips to any casino in town and cash them easily. That is simply not true.

Those few thousand is about the limit of what you may cash under the radar in one go, and I've posted about this many times. With effort you could cash a lot more, but pretty much $1500. at a time is around the upper limit, and that is only at a high end casino like say, Wynn or the Aria you mention. Try to cash more than that and the cage will ask for player card or ID to verify no markers outstanding, among other things.

As far as "walking with chips" if you do that the casino may call your marker right away. They did to me. I mean obviously - the loan is provided to gamble in their casino you are violating the terms of your agreement with them if you take the cash and don't even play with it, or win and don't pay back your marker right away and leave town. Casinos are lending you money to play, on their property. They're not giving interest free loans for people to use otherwise.

You have to understand what "walking with chips" means - it means that you got a marker advance and then walked with it, not just for the day or week, but period - left town with their money, either through not playing or winning, and not paying back your marker. There is no "secret police" needed to determine if someone walked with chips - if you understand the concept, you'd understand that all it takes is the player's trip has ended, he's left town, and he still owes a marker but either did not even play, or won.

Over all, no offense, but you don't know all of the ins and outs of all this, but if you keep playing, someday you might. It's okay not to know, but not okay to pretend that you know it all if you don't.


Actually if I owned a casino and found out a player was cashing any chips while owing markers I'd have a talk with him, and if it turned out to be a regular thing I would definitely close his line. I am sure all of the casinos have this sort of basic policy.
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 1:58:47 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

Two things that I will add.

Try to see it from the casinos point of view. After all, they are extending credit to a degen gambler. They need to have some rules to protect themselves and for the credit manager to explain to his bosses what he is doing to protect the casino's interests. Try not to make the credit manager sweat your handling of the funds drawn on a marker.

If you are bankrolling a significant other, try to keep track of which of you is doing the winning and losing. I can pull a $5K marker and we might lose it all in a few hours. It might turn out that the casino has me down as a winner because my SO has lost $8K. Then, I might need to take action even though I/we lost all of the money.
link to original post

Looking from casinoís point of view. They give various subsidies (such as highly discounted room rates) to everyone. They do this because most people will do some gambling at their hotelís casino. Some people will do all of their gambling at their hotelís casino. But there is no obligation to do so and you still get this subsidy even if they somehow knew you never gambled there. And they never would know unless youíre a whale who is always being watched
Itís all about making that GTA
MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 2:02:30 PM permalink
Ace2 doesn't even seem to understand what walking with chips is, or how easily they may determine that someone did this.
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DRich
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November 28th, 2023 at 2:03:50 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



I suppose you could also look into getting a safe deposit box somewhere in Vegas and store cash in it. Downsides are you'd earn no interest and I heard some such anonymous vault place got robbed a while back.



I would never trust one of those anonymous 24 hour access deposit boxes. I do trust most banks but I don't know any that offer 24 hour access to deposit boxes.

A gaming company that I used to work for in Vegas had a vault at their company headquarters. When desperate I could always call my boss and get his approval to take some money from the vault as long as it was paid back quickly which usually meant the next day that my bank was open.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 2:14:40 PM permalink
Well between a hotel room safe and a hotel safe deposit box I would always prefer the hotel safe deposit box. Unless there is a general conspiracy there's no way anyone is getting anything out of one of those safe deposit boxes without detection.

In 1993, Archie Karas won all of the Binion's casino's $5000 chips, the highest denomination at the time, and stored them all in their safety deposit boxes.
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 2:20:42 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Ace2 you're talking about a few thousand dollars. Also your original post was about how "chips are a form of cash" implying that you could take those few thousand in foreign chips to any casino in town and cash them easily. That is simply not true.

Those few thousand is about the limit of what you may cash under the radar in one go, and I've posted about this many times. With effort you could cash a lot more, but pretty much $1500. at a time is around the upper limit, and that is only at a high end casino like say, Wynn or the Aria you mention. Try to cash more than that and the cage will ask for player card or ID to verify no markers outstanding, among other things.

As far as "walking with chips" if you do that the casino may call your marker right away. They did to me. I mean obviously - the loan is provided to gamble in their casino you are violating the terms of your agreement with them if you take the cash and don't even play with it, or win and don't pay back your marker right away and leave town. Casinos are lending you money to play, on their property. They're not giving interest free loans for people to use otherwise.

You have to understand what "walking with chips" means - it means that you got a marker advance and then walked with it, not just for the day or week, but period - left town with their money, either through not playing or winning, and not paying back your marker. There is no "secret police" needed to determine if someone walked with chips - if you understand the concept, you'd understand that all it takes is the player's trip has ended, he's left town, and he still owes a marker but either did not even play, or won.

Over all, no offense, but you don't know all of the ins and outs of all this, but if you keep playing, someday you might. It's okay not to know, but not okay to pretend that you know it all if you don't.


Actually if I owned a casino and found out a player was cashing any chips while owing markers I'd have a talk with him, and if it turned out to be a regular thing I would definitely close his line. I am sure all of the casinos have this sort of basic policy.
link to original post

You have a habit of twisting words into what youíd like them to mean instead of what they mean.

Iím talking about cashing in chips at the casino where they were issued. Which Iíve done many times, and that means those chips are equal to cash. When I enter another casino I donít have some other casinoís chips in my pocket, ever. I have cash. What kind of moron would assume his chips are good at every casino?

Yep, talking about a few thousand dollars. Says so right in my post and has been stated in other posts

I understand everything about the marker I have and it works perfectly every time I use it. Itís a very simple instrumentÖessentially itís a postdated check. Youíre overcomplicating it

Sorry for not knowing the proper terminology for robbing a casino. I always pay all of my debts in full and on time. That includes markers
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 2:33:51 PM permalink
Another thing. Even on a $100k marker, the amount of interest the casino is ďeatingĒ by giving you an extremely short term loan is immaterial. It probably costs them more to comp one high-end dinner for two
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 2:48:49 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Just get a marker. Itís very easy

Get a large limit at one central casino. Use that llmit to get funds for wherever you want to play
link to original post


No one misread you. That's why both I and others including UnJon pointed out the difficulty of cashing foreign chips. Cashing chips at the casino of issue with markers outstanding is one way to get cash to take "wherever you want to play," but that has to be done under the radar, and obviously is a violation of your credit instrument terms.

Next time you are at the casino, try showing your player card up front and then try to cash even a $100. chip with a marker outstanding....

Quote: Ace2

What kind of moron would assume his chips are good at every casino?
link to original post

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unJon
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November 28th, 2023 at 3:06:17 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Quote: Ace2

How would they know what you did with the chips they gave you in exchange for the marker? In Vegas, chips are a form of cash
link to original post

This post was not theoretical. Iíve used my Aria marker to get chips and then cash them. Several times recently

Real example: Soon after arriving in Vegas I walk up to a $25 or $50 craps table and get $3,000 in chips with a marker using my drivers license (I donít do players cards/clubs). Play for a short time, go up or down a few hundred bucks, then color up and leave. This is normal behavior irrespective of marker use. Donít like the table, time for dinner, whatever. Then I go cash the chips and use the cash however/wherever I want. Even if I wasnít leaving Aria I still might cash out because itís very easy for a yellow chip to fall out of your pocketÖI prefer carrying cash in my wallet unless Iím going directly to another table

Never once have I had a problem doing this. So far Iíve always paid the maker before leaving Vegas. And I never got a warning like ďthe secret police have been following you 24/7 and saw you cash chips obtained via a markerÖfinal warningĒ. I just looked at my marker agreement and there is no ďcallĒ provision. Itís very simple: I have x amount of available credit and unpaid markers will be directly debited to my bank account if not paid in x days after issuance. MDawg, by ďcallĒ do you mean debit it immediately to your bank account in violation of the days stipulated in the marker agreement? I call bullsh*t on that

If I was cashing in a few hundred thousand dollars of chips then it would probably be another story. But Iím just a random chump cashing in a few thousand dollarsÖno ID required

Incidentally, I donít see my behavior as a scam at all. The reason you get a marker somewhere is because you do tend to stay/gamble there a lot. But I will never participate in any program that somehow obligates me to a play/stay/dine at specific place. Itís my money and Iím going to use it however I want. If a casino float me a very short term loan, itís still my money and it will be paid back to the casino in days
link to original post



Do an experiment next time you are with Aria and try to cash a flag with your marker outstanding. Ainít easy.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:24:32 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg


Next time you are at the casino, try showing your player card up front and then try to cash even a $100. chip with a marker outstanding....]

Two issues. 1) I donít have a players card 2) Iíve never been asked for any sort of ID when cashing chips

Maybe my level is just low enough to be 100% under radar. Iíve cashed yellows many times. Iím curious now if they request ID from anyone cashing chips larger than that. Honestly I didnít realize anyone showed ID when cashing chips, but Iím not a players club guy.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:33:21 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

1) I donít have a players card
Iím not a players club guy.


Huh? How did you get a credit line then.

Quote: Ace2

2) Iíve never been asked for any sort of ID when cashing chips


You can't cash consistently more than one yellow chip at a time without being asked for a player card or ID. You might even get asked with cashing just one yellow chip.

Also, it depends on the casino. Aria or Wynn the cut off point for not asking for player card / ID is about $1500. but if you're at say GVR you might be asked to identify yourself over a single $500. chip or certainly over a $1000. chip.

I'm talking about hundreds and hundreds of times I have done this, experimented with different amounts to see what will be tolerated before the request is made.

I've also experimented with the difference between cashing Baccarat chips and regular chips, and the tolerance level is even lower for Baccarat chips.

How many days a year are you in Vegas? Maybe your entire lifetime experience with cashing these chips is less times than I have tried in a single trip. Just keep trying what you're trying eventually you'll see that cashing chips under the radar isn't always a sure thing.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:46:18 PM permalink
Quote: unJon


Do an experiment next time you are with Aria and try to cash a flag with your marker outstanding. Ainít easy.
link to original post


Or one of these.  The gray ones, not the red or green. 😄

Last edited by: MDawg on Nov 28, 2023
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:46:37 PM permalink
Obviously I have a players account with Aria in order to get a credit line and thatís the only reason I have it. But, as stated previously, I show my drivers license at the table to get chips via a marker

No doubt you have much more Vegas experience than me. Seems like your method great for you and my method works great for me.

If I had to guess, Iíve cashed chips totaling four figures several hundred times and never been carded once. Yellow chips many times
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 4:50:48 PM permalink
It depends on what level of four figures.

The trigger point at a high end casino like Aria or Wynn is around $1500. Some cashiers will ask for player card / ID above that level, some will even ask below that level. It also depends on what kind of chips, Baccarat chips less tolerance than Blackjack / regular chips.

If you keep trying to cash $2000. in or more in on shot guarantee you will get carded eventually.

"Sir, do you have a player's card?"


I'd never try to cash a penny with a marker outstanding unless I was intent on walking with chips to some end other than mere "convenience." Would be embarrassing to be asked, Sir have you picked up your marker(s) yet? and knowing that I have not.
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:02:16 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

.

"Sir, do you have a player's card?"

]

No. Then they cash my chips with no ID
Itís all about making that GTA
Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:03:37 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg


I'd never try to cash a penny with a marker outstanding unless I was intent on walking with chips to some end other than mere "convenience."

Thatís you. Not everyone has criminal intentions
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:05:47 PM permalink
Also, Ace2, let me ask you, so it never occurred to you that there is some kind of "limit" to what you may cash at the cage in one shot without being identified?

What, you have never been asked for ID when you cash your chips?

Also, what's with this $3000. (or so) figure? Why not just cash out $9000. or $12000.?

What is the most you have ever cashed out?


What I am getting at is that if you've never hit that wall of being asked for identification, you could never have cashed out much. And if you have hit that wall, then why are you acting like no one ever gets asked for identification when cashing chips? and that "chips are a form of cash"?

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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:15:07 PM permalink
I truly wonder if you actually read posts before replying to them. Once again, this has already been covered

Iíve never claimed to play anywhere close to the level you claim to play

I even specified that ďcashing in hundreds of thousands would probably be another storyĒ. The real life example I used was $3000.

Weíre talking 4 figures and likely low 4
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:16:25 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

Quote: MDawg


I'd never try to cash a penny with a marker outstanding unless I was intent on walking with chips to some end other than mere "convenience."

Thatís you. Not everyone has criminal intentions
link to original post


You're the one breaking the rules when you cash chips with markers outstanding....

But anyway, either you've never cashed much in one shot, which is why you think the cage never asks for ID, or you have been asked for ID, in which case you're well aware of what triggers such requests.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:18:26 PM permalink
Quote: Ace2

I truly wonder if you actually read posts before replying to them. Once again, this has already been covered

Iíve never claimed to play anywhere close to the level you claim to play

I even specified that ďcashing in hundreds of thousands would probably be another storyĒ. The real life example I used was $3000.

Weíre talking 4 figures and likely low 4
link to original post


There is a huge difference between hundreds of thousands and $1500.

But even $3000. if you try to cash that every time, a full $3000., you'll be asked to identify yourself sometimes. Does anyone here who has done this disagree?
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:19:26 PM permalink
You show me what rule Iím breaking.

The rule is that the marker must be paid back in full within the time specified. Never have and never will break that rule
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AxelWolf
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:20:29 PM permalink
What's the issue with wiring the casino some front money, at that point you can do what you want with it. Take out his little or as much as you want. When you can go to different casinos and spread the money around how you would like. I don't know what the policies are regarding wire transferring money to the casinos nowadays.

Alternatively, I do believe one could set up and fund a sports account from your location at a Nevada Casino and withdraw cash from there, you might have to make a few bets once you arrive in Nevada. You should be able to add whatever money back to your sports account in person and withdraw it to your bank once you need it.

Aside from not earning any interest in your sports account, I'm fairly certain you could leave it in there for years without an issue. Make some plus Advantage bets along the way.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:21:45 PM permalink
Argh, talk about someone jumping in without knowing what we're even talking about....

Yes AxelWolf, you may do whatever you like with your own front money.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:22:51 PM permalink
Ace2, what rule or issue, is at issue? Do you know?
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:45:35 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg


You have to understand what "walking with chips" means - it means that you got a marker advance and then walked with it, not just for the day or week, but period - left town with their money, either through not playing or winning, and not paying back your marker. There is no "secret police" needed to determine if someone walked with chips - if you understand the concept, you'd understand that all it takes is the player's trip has ended, he's left town, and he still owes a marker but either did not even play, or won.

Lets say next time I go to Vegas I get $5k in chips via marker. I donít pay back the marker before leaving Vegas. Aria debits my bank account after the specified time limit and is paid back the $5k. Fully compliant with the marker agreement

Did I potentially walk with chips? Aria has no idea if or when I left town because I stayed somewhere else. Did I lose the entire $5k, part of it, or none of it? Or did I win? They have no idea since I never presented ID except to receive the $5k in chips. Maybe I never even gambled at Aria except for a very brief time after receiving my chips.

Did I commit a crime by taking a short term loan and then paying it back ? After all, it must have cost the casino at least $10 in interest to give that 0% loan for a few days
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:53:35 PM permalink
Even with apparently limited awareness, the concept of "walking with chips" is all over the internet. I screen shot the below off some sites where I found posts by players, Gaming Commission reports, casino executive reports, and reports on white collar casino crime.














It's also just common sense that the line will be called if the casino finds out it hasn't been using for gaming exclusively on property. It is also very easy for the casino to determine nowadays that someone walked with chips - if he didn't play at all, his loss isn't equal to the amount of marker he left town owing, or he won and left a marker owing.
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MDawg
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November 28th, 2023 at 5:58:29 PM permalink
What, do you always lose so it doesn't matter that you cashed some chips before getting blown out, or what are you saying?

If you end up owing a marker, and you lost that amount then that is not walking with chips, even if you did get away with cashing some chips at the cage with a marker outstanding.
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 6:11:21 PM permalink
The first typewritten report says the ďwalkerĒ is free to use the casinoís money however he likes until it becomes due in 90/120 days. Looks like a very old report and I have not heard of that many days in modern times

Subsequent reports indicate youíre more likely to get questioned if the casino knows all your results by your using a players card. As stated, no one knows my results

Btw, only a small percentage of gamblers use markers. Ask 100 random gamblers what walking with chips is and 99 wont know
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Ace2
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November 28th, 2023 at 6:12:45 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

What, do you always lose so it doesn't matter that you cashed some chips before getting blown out, or what are you saying?

If you end up owing a marker, and you lost that amount then that is not walking with chips, even if you did get away with cashing some chips at the cage with a marker outstanding.
link to original post

What if I cashed the $5k and went home? Over five transactions just to be safe lol
Itís all about making that GTA
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