Thread Rating:

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13 votes (25%)
32 votes (61.53%)
7 votes (13.46%)

52 members have voted

rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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July 14th, 2011 at 8:19:47 PM permalink
So, things are getting a little out of control on the board. Some discussions seem to be flooding the recent threads list, making it hard to pay attention to anything else. (yes, I realize I'm partially to blame for that.) Since it's possible to block users but not threads, it seems like another solution might be needed. I have an idea about that, so I've created this poll.

It seems to me that most of the posts that are plugging things up are posted in the "betting systems" area. I propose that the betting systems forum should be supressed from the recent threads list, and I am wondering if others agree with me. I don't think it should be taken away entirely, as it does interest some members. But I think it might be better for the community as a whole if the betting systems area were treated like the free-speech zone of GLBT area where posts are recorded but not listed in the "recent threads" list. People wanting to read about betting systems would simply need to more proactively seek that area out.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
boymimbo
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July 14th, 2011 at 9:54:13 PM permalink
it's just a phase.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Nareed
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July 14th, 2011 at 10:20:14 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

it's just a phase.



So we thought of Jerry and MKL.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
MarieBicurie
MarieBicurie
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July 14th, 2011 at 10:20:44 PM permalink
I do think that it brings the quality of discussion and ultimately the intelligence of the forum down a few pegs. I also highly doubt that it is a phase that will go away in time.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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July 14th, 2011 at 11:12:05 PM permalink
Perhaps a better solution is the development of the option for each user to customize which discussions will appear on their "recent" list. That way you can take or leave whatever interests you.

As for the betting systems threads, I don't mind them, but I don't read all of them either. I suppose the folks who are interested in them could say the same about the "game design" thread. It's a tough call to decide for everyone. It may be better to err on the side of too many displayed than not enough.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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July 14th, 2011 at 11:20:13 PM permalink
Suppress the errant posters if you wish, but not the posts.
thecesspit
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July 14th, 2011 at 11:41:53 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Perhaps a better solution is the development of the option for each user to customize which discussions will appear on their "recent" list. That way you can take or leave whatever interests you.



Plus one... that's the way to deal with it, allow suppression of entire sections for those who want it.

I enjoy the systems section.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
WizardofEngland
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July 15th, 2011 at 1:37:47 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Plus one... that's the way to deal with it, allow suppression of entire sections for those who want it.

I enjoy the systems section.



Doesn't bother me so much, you don't have to click on them. Either ban them all together, or keep it as it is.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
DJTeddyBear
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July 15th, 2011 at 4:48:45 AM permalink
They don't bother me much either. As long as they have a relevant title, they are easy to ignore.

Banish them? No.

Regardless of what anyone or the smart money thinks about "systems", whether for sports or for regular betting, there should be no encoumberances to free discussion.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Alan
Alan
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July 15th, 2011 at 4:55:52 AM permalink
I kind of enjoy them. I like when the math whizzes come out and prove how they won't work; like the recent one about craps, where there were bets all over the place, mostly hedging and on the don't side.
weaselman
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July 15th, 2011 at 5:29:03 AM permalink
I don't get the rationale. Yes, betting system are useless, but it does not necessarily make them uninteresting. There are many interesting things that are pretty useless. Gambling is one of them.
If betting systems do not interest you personally, it is not the reason to take them out of the list. To some, who do not play craps, the craps related threads are equally uninteresting. To others, who don't visit Vegas much, the whole bunch of subforums dedicated to individual Vegas casinos isn't interesting, etc.
I think, the idea is that, if you reply to a thread, you sorta "declare" that it interests you in some way. Consequently, the recent threads list is a list of threads that interested some people most recently. I think, it is appropriate ...
If people did not want BS (betting systems - pun intended) threads in the recent list, because they did not interest them, they would just not reply to them, and let them get dropped off the list.
(The issue with some people reposting the same stuff, and bumping old threads that are not getting attention is a different one. I do think that this should not be tolerated).
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
MrCasinoGames
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July 15th, 2011 at 7:30:27 AM permalink
Anything to do with gambling including betting system should be okay to post on this forum.
That is how people learn why and how betting system doesn't work.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
boymimbo
boymimbo
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July 15th, 2011 at 7:41:48 AM permalink
I agree. The people showing the systems have yet to prove anything. Every one of them has been mathematically refuted, and I think defusing betting systems is one of the very important roles of this forum. People with brains know that are certain ways to gain PA in a casino.

So I don't mind the betting system post.

We know that 00 roulette, on a random wheel, has a 5.26 percent HA. We know that the effects of martingaling will, more times than not, yield a small win for the player but will turn out in disaster on rare but predictable occasions.

We know that craps can't be beaten, and that any combination of bets just changes the average HA of all of them, and that hedging ultimately doesn't work.

The betting systems add flavor to the site, IMO.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Ericayne
Ericayne
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July 15th, 2011 at 9:27:30 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

We know that craps can't be beaten.....



?!? HOW DARE YOU.........
MrCasinoGames
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July 15th, 2011 at 9:40:40 AM permalink
Craps can't be beaten if using betting systems.

Craps may be beatable if using dice setting.
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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July 15th, 2011 at 11:12:15 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Craps may be beatable if using dice setting.



Proof please... anybody... anybody... Bueller?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
MathExtremist
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July 15th, 2011 at 11:21:48 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Proof please... anybody... anybody... Bueller?


The premise is that dice setting can alter the expected distribution of dice outcomes. If it can, craps is easily beatable. The hard part is convincing anyone that the dice can be influenced.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DJTeddyBear
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July 15th, 2011 at 11:56:00 AM permalink
Quote: MrCasinoGames

Craps may be beatable if using dice setting.

Don't throw him under the bus for such a statement.

He DID use the keyword "may"...
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Nareed
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July 15th, 2011 at 12:00:48 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Don't throw him under the bus for such a statement.



Absolutely. One should not be angry either at Pandora or the Box, but rather at the gods who put all those things in it :)

I would love to do a serious dice control experiment someday.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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July 15th, 2011 at 12:02:33 PM permalink
At the moment I favor leaving things as they are. It seems to me that the betting system threads tend to be among the most popular topics. As an example, the 98steps challenge thread. As has been noted, if the topic doesn't interest you, then don't visit those threads.

About dice setting, please make a separate thread for that, or post to one of the many existing threads about it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MrCasinoGames
MrCasinoGames
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July 15th, 2011 at 12:27:50 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Don't throw him under the bus for such a statement.

He DID use the keyword "may"...


Thanks DJTeddyBear,

For pointing out the keyword "may"...
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
seviay
seviay
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July 15th, 2011 at 12:57:08 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Perhaps a better solution is the development of the option for each user to customize which discussions will appear on their "recent" list. That way you can take or leave whatever interests you.

As for the betting systems threads, I don't mind them, but I don't read all of them either. I suppose the folks who are interested in them could say the same about the "game design" thread. It's a tough call to decide for everyone. It may be better to err on the side of too many displayed than not enough.


+1
AZDuffman
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July 15th, 2011 at 2:34:56 PM permalink
Quote: weaselman

I don't get the rationale. Yes, betting system are useless, but it does not necessarily make them uninteresting. There are many interesting things that are pretty useless. Gambling is one of them.



I have to agree on this one. I like hearing about some of them so if the topic comes up I can at least discuss it. For good to warn people why they will not work. For bad to let someone think they are explining they just discovered gravity when I know I have been stuck to the ground for years.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
buzzpaff
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July 15th, 2011 at 3:04:15 PM permalink
" Anything to do with gambling including betting system should be okay to post on this forum.
That is how people learn why and how betting system doesn't work. "

Well stated, Stephen. Let's try and educate players at all levels
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
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July 15th, 2011 at 8:41:08 PM permalink
The betting systems threads have been comedy gold! I especially like the ones that insist that past results are indicative of future returns. They are so earnest yet so wrong.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
buzzpaff
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:30:19 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

The betting systems threads have been comedy gold! I especially like the ones that insist that past results are indicative of future returns. They are so earnest yet so wrong.



Comedy gold. I hardly think so, past result are indicative of the need to invest in GOLD !
mrjjj
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:34:14 PM permalink
Quote: MarieBicurie

I do think that it brings the quality of discussion and ultimately the intelligence of the forum down a few pegs. I also highly doubt that it is a phase that will go away in time.




Then dont read (or respond) them, problem solved on your end, correct?

Ken
mrjjj
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:35:48 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

The betting systems threads have been comedy gold! I especially like the ones that insist that past results are indicative of future returns. They are so earnest yet so wrong.



Man, that aint nothing. The guys throwing in the towel on roulette after only 9 total hours....now thats COMEDY GOLD !! (lol)

Ken
guido111
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:46:02 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

At the moment I favor leaving things as they are. It seems to me that the betting system threads tend to be among the most popular topics. As an example, the 98steps challenge thread.

I see many Betting System threads having very good math in them. 98 steps has some great Craps stuff by alan, they need to be in their own thread.

The ones that read those threads by finding them in a search can learn a lot from them.

Some say guns should have no place in society.
Too dangerous and they kill too many people.
I say, learn how to use the gun and do not use it as a hammer when there are bullets in it...

Thanks Wizard for you free forum.
If you ever have a paid only section, for special members only for whatever, count me in.
We need more model photos.

Enjoy!
buzzpaff
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:51:12 PM permalink
I for one am in favor of a seperate thread only for those system that have shown they can overcome
a negative expectation. But I would limit that thread to no more than 14 winning systems.
mrjjj
mrjjj
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June 20th, 2012 at 5:55:53 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

I for one am in favor of a seperate thread only for those system that have shown they can overcome
a negative expectation. But I would limit that thread to no more than 14 winning systems.




Will this same RULE of PROOF be for ALL bettors here?

Ken
buzzpaff
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June 20th, 2012 at 6:00:04 PM permalink
I think we can accept the integrity of those posting. I see no need for the math experts
in this forum to validate everyone's work. An intelligent reader will quickly recognize
those systems that actually do work !
mrjjj
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June 20th, 2012 at 6:09:21 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

I think we can accept the integrity of those posting. I see no need for the math experts
in this forum to validate everyone's work. An intelligent reader will quickly recognize
those systems that actually do work !




No, no, no....thats not what I meant. Will PROOF be shown for EACH individual here who says they WIN at the casino on a regular basis?

Ken
buzzpaff
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June 20th, 2012 at 6:10:50 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

No, no, no....thats not what I meant. Will PROOF be shown for EACH individual here who says they WIN at the casino on a regular basis?

Ken




I see no need for that. After all, except for Paigowdan, we are all gentlemen here.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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June 20th, 2012 at 6:42:23 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mrjjj
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June 20th, 2012 at 6:45:27 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Only the ones that supposedly beat unbeatable games, not those that beat proven beatable games.




Thats NOT the same as showing PROOF that you actually do it. Thats like me saying.....Ok, I count cards and am an AP (cough).

I net around 628K per year. Is that ok to post it because it deals with AP (cough)?

Ken
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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June 20th, 2012 at 7:07:15 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mrjjj
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June 28th, 2012 at 6:34:35 PM permalink
I just thought of this......If a person wants to start a thread regarding a method, why not have this rule? >> Any member who comments on that thread with an insult, gets their post deleted and a warning of a ban. Also included......"can you explain why your method will work, this game has not been beat for 957 years".

Ya see, that counts as an insult. (lol) With this rule, it would eliminate the attack posts in the thread, problem solved. I can understand, this rule would not be liked by all. ;)

Ken
Ibeatyouraces
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June 28th, 2012 at 7:14:45 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mrjjj
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June 28th, 2012 at 7:21:39 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Whats insulting are people that claim they can win/beat an unbeatable game without mathematical proof when we all know damn well that the game and any combo of bets have been picked apart and cannot overcome the house advantage so people can win. Not only is it insulting to all the math people, its insulting to the real people out there in anonymity playing casino games with a REAL mathematical edge on the game. I here the same BS all day, every day in the casinos about how these people win on this bet or that bet and all I see is these same people consistantly buying more chips to lose.




So you ADMIT (?), you are on the list that would be posting on such a thread. I assume you hate my new rule idea?

Ken
Ibeatyouraces
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June 28th, 2012 at 7:23:56 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mrjjj
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June 28th, 2012 at 7:28:40 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I dont "hate" anything, except my ex. Just be able to handle critism.




Ok, dislike my idea .....but if THOSE posts were not allowed on METHOD THREADS, it would drastically cut down on attacks and arguing, I assume.

Ken
thecesspit
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June 28th, 2012 at 7:30:34 PM permalink
There's a world more information on how to beat games in one post on A.P.Heat Blog than almost every single betting systems post. That's not to say I haven't learnt a lot from betting Systems posts, but it's very rarely what the original poster intended me to learn.

Asking someone to explain why they think a method would work is not an insult. Just my opinion.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
mrjjj
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June 28th, 2012 at 7:40:18 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

There's a world more information on how to beat games in one post on A.P.Heat Blog than almost every single betting systems post. That's not to say I haven't learnt a lot from betting Systems posts, but it's very rarely what the original poster intended me to learn.

Asking someone to explain why they think a method would work is not an insult. Just my opinion.





but if a guy starts a method thread stating......bet on the second column after every 5, 10 or 15 hits, why not just leave the guy alone?

Its a goofy method but why attack the guy? He's not hurting you. Do you know how many odd methods there are at VLS1 and VLS2 (I hope nobody gets pissed at me for saying that). As a mod., I scan it over for foul language etc. and let 'them' continue on, they are harming nobody.

Ken
Ibeatyouraces
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June 29th, 2012 at 7:07:14 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
thecesspit
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June 30th, 2012 at 9:07:52 PM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

but if a guy starts a method thread stating......bet on the second column after every 5, 10 or 15 hits, why not just leave the guy alone?



If he comes to this site, people are going to critically examine their methods.

Quote:


Its a goofy method but why attack the guy? He's not hurting you. Do you know how many odd methods there are at VLS1 and VLS2 (I hope nobody gets pissed at me for saying that). As a mod., I scan it over for foul language etc. and let 'them' continue on, they are harming nobody.



Why is he posting here? For acclimation, or acceptance?

It's a Math orientated site. If you don't want "Math boys" picking over your ideas, don't post. End of problem, see?
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
mrjjj
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July 1st, 2012 at 6:56:07 AM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

If he comes to this site, people are going to critically examine their methods.



Why is he posting here? For acclimation, or acceptance?

It's a Math orientated site. If you don't want "Math boys" picking over your ideas, don't post. End of problem, see?




"If he comes to this site, people are going to critically examine their methods" >>> Why? You sound like you endorse gang-like tactics of attacking? (big surprise)


"It's a Math orientated site. If you don't want "Math boys" picking over your ideas, don't post" >>> Well, until the rule changes to.....No more methods are allowed to be posted, I see no issue and I would NEVER not post out of fear of being ATTACKED, could careless. The math goofs are the last people that should be giving advice regarding methods. I want advice from the guys that have been in the trenches, guys that have put in more than 9 hours into their roulette studies.

Ken
FinsRule
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July 1st, 2012 at 7:05:52 AM permalink
LOL, the roulette trenches. It's tough out there for roulette players, isn't it?
mrjjj
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July 1st, 2012 at 7:34:34 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

LOL, the roulette trenches. It's tough out there for roulette players, isn't it?




(lol)...I see my POINT/question went in another direction.

Ken
FinsRule
FinsRule
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July 1st, 2012 at 7:37:52 AM permalink
Quote: mrjjj

(lol)...I see my POINT/question went in another direction.

Ken



Sorry, I just picture you playing roulette, bullets flying everywhere around you. You're wearing a gas mask and writing down the last numbers that have hit. Pressing your bets...

Hey, it's Sunday morning and I'm at work - this is where my mind is right now.
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