Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: AxelWolf
Simple just say:
Hey Bob, IMO you are always walking the line, so I decided to push you off it. I might be biased(Take it up with Mike) I didn't like the spirit of your tinfoil hat comment. They themselves didn't find it amusing. IMO it doesn't fit that persons description. We reserve the right to suspend or give leeway when considering comments like this. Some people will have a shorter leash.
I thought it was understood that's what happened.
Some mods like me, some don't. Oh well. It just
raises (lowers?) the bar for everybody, though, and that's
not good.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
Ha ha,.... Money Inc. featuring Irwin R. Shyster (IRS). Man this photo takes me back, way back. Only person missing from the photo is Virgil the bodyguard.
Quote: EvenBobI thought it was understood that's what happened.
Some mods like me, some don't. Oh well. It just
raises (lowers?) the bar for everybody, though, and that's
not good.
That's what I thought happened and I was ok with it, weren't you?
I bet you 86'd plenty, if only for a day? Some you probably were friends with.
Soon as I spilled one, the bartender would cut me off, even if I was sober. It was kind of an unwritten rule between us, and worked well when I was drunk. If I was sober enough, I just found another bar. Nothing personal, just business.
Glad your back.
Quote: AxelWolfCan I get a yes or no? is calling someone a conspiracy theorist a PI or not?
I would say yes, but I wouldn't always Suspend for that. Technically, probably should. I almost certainly would if the subject said he/she was insulted.
Quote: AxelWolfhttps://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/21565-i-noticed-in-general-bj-players-that-are-asian/4/#post447247
Not directed at anyone specifically.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/15693-2016-election/173/#post454258
Refers to the way a post, "Sounds," and not the poster himself.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/15693-2016-election/114/#post355468
Not directed at anyone specifically.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/other-games/20809-2016-election-odds/8/#post431404
Maybe, but the statement in question was objectively absurd. Also, it could be argued that it was more about the statement than the poster.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/20056-ibeatyouraces-deleted-posts/#post409130
Referring to VP AP's in general with the Tinfoil Hat part. To wit, he uses the term, "Brigade," which wouldn't refer to just one person.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/19365-how-do-cards-work-in-video-poker/4/#post390340
Specifically says, "Tinfoil hat theories," how is that not referring to the theories or posts?
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/20556-no-safety-no-overtime-superbowl-bets-out-wizard-what-will-you-do/15/#post428837
Refers to no person in particular.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/18435-miscellaneous-discussion-thread/63/#post385675
Refers to nobody specifically.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/17988-smoking/10/#post354742
That should have been a Suspension, I decline to retroactively Suspend for a post over a year old.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/19365-how-do-cards-work-in-video-poker/9/#post390645
Refers to himself not wearing tinfoil hats.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/3853-discussion-about-the-suspension-list/405/#post397974
That probably should have been a Suspension, I decline to retroactively Suspend due to age of the post.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/20425-time-for-a-reverse-ferguson/32/#post420437
Well, he said he would, "Take," being called that...so apparently he wasn't insulted.
Quote:https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/3853-discussion-about-the-suspension-list/522/#post432822
Oh, so that poster agrees that Tinfoil Hat should be an insult. How does that help the argument that it shouldn't?
Anyway, you have two that should have been Suspensions and one maybe. I shouldn't have even had to look at some of those posts, but no big deal.
My explanation is that Administrators do not issue Suspensions, unfailingly, every single time a Personal Insult takes place. Pursuant to the Rules, they should, and I've already previously stated both of those things.
Quote: DMSCRIf I see anyone walking around with a tinfoil hat I know who it is. Hahahahaha.
If this refers to me I am totally not insulted, in fact I enjoyed it.
As regards post 397974 referred to in Missions reply.
edit: I did not read them all but if any others refer to myself, I don't recall ever being insulted here, mis-understood or mis-understanding sure, but no insult taken or inferred.
Quote: EvenBobI thought it was understood that's what happened.
Some mods like me, some don't. Oh well. It just
raises (lowers?) the bar for everybody, though, and that's
not good.
Bob, were you surprised you got tagged and are you OK? I am positive they didn't give you time out to hurt your feelings.
And I also know stuff like this bounces off you like bullets of superman.
I thought it was like a hockey player checking?
Come on, you wouldn't want those guys in your neighborhood either.
I am personally proud of TP for having the kahones to sit there with cops behind him, good on him!
Quote: petroglyphBob, were you surprised you got tagged
Didn't care, don't care now. This is
cyberspace, it's not the real world.
After I was bounced my electric was
still on and my dog still loved me. No
worries..
Yes he still loved you, but he was highly disappointed. Laura Stinchfield pet psychic told me so.Quote: EvenBobDidn't care, don't care now. This is
cyberspace, it's not the real world.
After I was bounced my electric was
still on and my dog still loved me. No
worries..
http://thepetpsychic.com/ Video if you like animals and need a good laugh. You have to love this county, and how people make money.
Quote: AxelWolfYes he still loved you, but he was highly disappointed.
No, he really wasn't. He's a dog..
Irwin R. Shyster -- perhaps the best gimmick of all time.Quote: Ibeatyouraces
If we can now be banned for lying or embellishing, perhaps passing a polygraph should be a requirement for new members. Heck, why stop there? Have the existing 9900 plus members submit to one as well. Only one question need be asked. Have you ever lied? Ban anyone who answers in the affirmative. Ban anyone who said no because, well, they lied.
If anyone knows of a member here who has ever lied, do your duty and report them immediately.
Quote: 1BBWhy hasn't Dan's dastardly deed been entered into the suspension list? It's been a slow month suspension wise and wouldn't that 30 days look good at the top of the list? It's been four days since DanMahoney was suspended for lying and possibly causing someone to lose time looking for something.
Forgot about it, will do later.
Quote:If we can now be banned for lying or embellishing, perhaps passing a polygraph should be a requirement for new members. Heck, why stop there? Have the existing 9900 plus members submit to one as well. Only one question need be asked. Have you ever lied? Ban anyone who answers in the affirmative. Ban anyone who said no because, well, they lied.
If anyone knows of a member here who has ever lied, do your duty and report them immediately.
He's not banned merely for lying, he's banned for Trolling. He mentioned an event that he claimed to be real and that he claimed to have resulted in police action. In my view, what makes it Trolling is that there is a reasonable expectation that people will attempt to research to get more information on something that never happened.
I wouldn't say that every single possible lie would constitute Trolling. If a guy wants to say he ran $5 up to $1,000,000 at the Craps Table, I seriously doubt if I would ban someone for such a post, even though it would be objectively ridiculous.
What made the story plausible (and researchable) is that it mentioned a specific date, location and semi-specific time.
Furthermore, the OP later came on and admitted to lying about it. Thus, it could perhaps be argued that I would be less inclined to ban someone under the grounds of Trolling if that person did not admit that what they said was a lie and they were just doing it to have a memorable first thread created.
You know, essentially spelling out in no uncertain terms that you are Trolling, by admission.
Quote: Mission146DanMahoney has been added to the Suspension list.
Thanks. You saved the fabric of time and space from being ripped asunder.
Quote: rxwineThanks. You saved the fabric of time and space from being ripped asunder.
Thank me not, good RXWine, any good citizen of these Forums with both the capability and technical know-how to do so would have done the same.
1BB you cant tell me this was just another innocent post where you are miss understood. And yet again questioning the suspension list. Asking why it hasn't been updated just gave you a perfect lead in to whatever your deal is.Quote: 1BBWhy hasn't Dan's dastardly deed been entered into the suspension list? It's been a slow month suspension wise and wouldn't that 30 days look good at the top of the list? It's been four days since DanMahoney was suspended for lying and possibly causing someone to lose time looking for something.
If we can now be banned for lying or embellishing, perhaps passing a polygraph should be a requirement for new members. Heck, why stop there? Have the existing 9900 plus members submit to one as well. Only one question need be asked. Have you ever lied? Ban anyone who answers in the affirmative. Ban anyone who said no because, well, they lied.
If anyone knows of a member here who has ever lied, do your duty and report them immediately.
Talk about sarcasm, this wins a prize "It's been a slow month suspension wise and wouldn't that 30 days look good at the top of the list?"
Again let me say, I have no objections about you objecting, and I found it funny. But the innocent, whys everybody always picking on me act, gets a -100.
Quote: 1BBWhy hasn't Dan's dastardly deed been entered into the suspension list? It's been a slow month suspension wise and wouldn't that 30 days look good at the top of the list? It's been four days since DanMahoney was suspended for lying and possibly causing someone to lose time looking for something.
If we can now be banned for lying or embellishing, perhaps passing a polygraph should be a requirement for new members. Heck, why stop there? Have the existing 9900 plus members submit to one as well. Only one question need be asked. Have you ever lied? Ban anyone who answers in the affirmative. Ban anyone who said no because, well, they lied.
If anyone knows of a member here who has ever lied, do your duty and report them immediately.
Whatever. Why are you so focused on who's suspended, for how long, and why particular mods may have or may not have taken action? You have so much contribution in your AP posts, I don't understand why you seeminglu dwell on this?
He was just innocently asking a question and being helpful. Thank god, because Mission fell a sleep at the wheel. The entire forum could've went into chaos.Quote: MidwestAPWhatever. Why are you so focused on who's suspended, for how long, and why particular mods may have or may not have taken action? You have so much contribution in your AP posts, I don't understand why you seeminglu dwell on this?
Quote: Mission146DanMahoney has been added to the Suspension list.
Thanks Mission. The purpose of my post was to let you know that you may have forgotten to update the suspension list. Face has stated that he would appreciate a reminder and I thought you would as well. I did wait three days so it's not like I jumped right in.
It's clear to me that you took my post for exactly what it was, tongue in cheek. You get it. I could have simply reminded you about the suspension list but my fans have come to expect more and I didn't want to let them down, hence the tongue in cheek. Perhaps you could explain it to them. One, in another thread, attempted to goad me into commenting about this matter. Don't they have a name for that? Another, in this thread, asks why I'm so focused on who's suspended. I find that odd and I would never ask anyone why they are so focused on me.
As the people who desperately search through my posts can attest, it's been a while since I've actually complained about a suspension. Some just see my name and automatically assume that I'm complaining.
I'll make a post in this thread and get a dozen responses from the peanut gallery, many of them not relevant to the subject under discussion. They all add to the post count to the number one thread on this gambling forum.
Quote: 1BBThanks Mission. The purpose of my post was to let you know that you may have forgotten to update the suspension list. Face has stated that he would appreciate a reminder and I thought you would as well. I did wait three days so it's not like I jumped right in.
It's clear to me that you took my post for exactly what it was, tongue in cheek.
No problem, and I figured as much. You'd never throw up a softball like that if you were being serious.
Quote: 1BBThanks Mission. The purpose of my post was to let you know that you may have forgotten to update the suspension list. Face has stated that he would appreciate a reminder and I thought you would as well. I did wait three days so it's not like I jumped right in.
It's clear to me that you took my post for exactly what it was, tongue in cheek. You get it. I could have simply reminded you about the suspension list but my fans have come to expect more and I didn't want to let them down, hence the tongue in cheek. Perhaps you could explain it to them. One, in another thread, attempted to goad me into commenting about this matter. Don't they have a name for that? Another, in this thread, asks why I'm so focused on who's suspended. I find that odd and I would never ask anyone why they are so focused on me.
As the people who desperately search through my posts can attest, it's been a while since I've actually complained about a suspension. Some just see my name and automatically assume that I'm complaining.
I'll make a post in this thread and get a dozen responses from the peanut gallery, many of them not relevant to the subject under discussion. They all add to the post count to the number one thread on this gambling forum.
1BB, Dear 1BB;
I posted on another thread today about the value to the Forum of a couple of members.
That same sentiment applies to you, the forum wouldn't be the same, or as valuable to me, without you.
Proceed...
Quote: TwoFeathersATL1BB, Dear 1BB;
I posted on another thread today about the value to the Forum of a couple of members.
That same sentiment applies to you, the forum wouldn't be the same, or as valuable to me, without you.
Proceed...
Aw shucks, you're making me blush. I've been told that I'm an acquired taste.
Quote: petroglyphHis name was Mickey Crimm. He would tell anyone to their face what's what without sneaking around under false ID's.
If Mickey was 79 [he wasn't] he would have already threatened to kick Wizzard's derrier.
All Mickey needed was an editor, and I believe it was offered once or twice. He left under his own volition, of course after being nuked by the sheriff. And that, even hurt the sheriff.
MickeyCrimm's sigting in BJ21.com!
Petro is right. MC posts with the same handle. No matter where he goes, MC will be MC.
I caught sight of MC in Stanford Wong's Greenchipper's forum.
As of right now, the Greenchippers have welcome him with open arms.
They love him and give him praises with these quotes:
Quote:Good to see you here... Looking forward to your posting here...
I'm also a fan...Thank you
This post made the connection to strictlyAP:
The evidence seems clear that jeffwarren75 = strictlyAP.
He began in 2011 as jeffwarren75, continuing through June 19 2012. The next day (June 20 2012), he switched over to the newly created strictlyAP account.
He continued posting as strictlyAP until the January 2015 ban, except he briefly used jeffwarren75 in September 2012 and April 2014.
Refer to the Jackpot Pictures thread:
Observe strictlyAP's style of posting links to Ultimate X jackpots without comment.
Now skip ahead a few pages to April 14 2014, and you'll see identically styled posts by jeffwarren75.
After the January 2015 ban, both accounts were quiet for a few months, but now jeffwarren75 is actively posting.
Quote: irrationalnoMods, please review the identity of jeffwarren75.
And while you're at it, please review the identity of irrationalno.
Heck of a first post, friend. Not suspicious at all. Nothing to see here...
(Except if you're jeffwarren75, then that'd be hilarious.)
Quote: MathExtremistAnd while you're at it, please review the identity of irrationalno.
Heck of a first post, friend. Not suspicious at all. Nothing to see here...
(Except if you're jeffwarren75, then that'd be hilarious.)
I disagree. They may ban irrationalno for being someone else, but if he is right, the information should be welcomed and looked at if a Mod has the time. SAP was a risk to any legitimate gambler willing to make a wager on here. He screwed a good honest member over and was given multiple ways to resolve it yet declined everytime. Some can debate if he should have been banned or not for that, but he was and if he is back under another name, he needs to go per the rules as I understand them.
Damn, I have been reading 1BB too much! I'm becoming one of those "do-gooders" I dislike so much.
Quote: Artemis
MickeyCrimm's sigting in BJ21.com!
Petro is right. MC posts with the same handle. No matter where he goes, MC will be MC.
I caught sight of MC in Stanford Wong's Greenchipper's forum.
As of right now, the Greenchippers have welcome him with open arms.
They love him and give him praises with these quotes:
MickeyCrimm is on a number of sites . Usually something related to Video poker, machine play or gambling in general. I like Mickey. As a member of BJ21 GC, I welcome mickey's participation. I am not sure he will find all that much to talk about as obviously BJ21 is mostly a blackjack topic site. There is a video poker area, but it doesn't get a lot of traffic or action.
I soooo much wish there was a way that mickeycrimm could participate here. I am not faulting anyone other than mickey that he isn't able to. I just wish thing were different.
Quote: kewlj
I soooo much wish there was a way that mickeycrimm could participate here. I am not faulting anyone other than mickey that he isn't able to. I just wish thing were different.
I agree, there was a lot of good reading and his stories were always interesting.
The nice thing about Mickey is he never blammed anyone for his issues. That alone is refreshing.
Quote: 1BBThere is a way to get MickeyCrimm or anyone else back. Petition the new owners to grant amnesty to all. What's there to be afraid of? They can return anytime they want now. Chuck was the first member suspended. Make him an honorary secret administrator.
And I would be remiss if I didn't remind you of Option 2. You know, become King and use the Golden Rule.
Quote: BozI disagree. They may ban irrationalno for being someone else, but if he is right, the information should be welcomed and looked at if a Mod has the time. SAP was a risk to any legitimate gambler willing to make a wager on here. He screwed a good honest member over and was given multiple ways to resolve it yet declined everytime. Some can debate if he should have been banned or not for that, but he was and if he is back under another name, he needs to go per the rules as I understand them.
Damn, I have been reading 1BB too much! I'm becoming one of those "do-gooders" I dislike so much.
I don't dispute the provision of the information, just how it was delivered. Publicly, and as the first post of a new user? Nobody who's a first-time user would have been reading posts from 2011 and 2012 with the degree of attention indicated. That doesn't even come close to passing the sniff test. That username is almost surely a second handle, and in fact may never be heard from again. Perhaps they don't know about PMs; that would have been the right way to deliver the message.
Quote: 1BBThere is a way to get MickeyCrimm or anyone else back. Petition the new owners to grant amnesty to all. What's there to be afraid of? They can return anytime they want now. Chuck was the first member suspended. Make him an honorary secret administrator.
Or we could just ask for amnesty for MC. Not any of the rest of the suspended ones.
Quote: RSOr we could just ask for amnesty for MC. Not any of the rest of the suspended ones.
When I say "I wish there was a way...", I don't JUST mean a way to get him re-instated. We could probably do that. There seems to be enough people that like, and wish MC were here.
But nothing would change. Mickey can't seem to control himself (especially later at night) and post within the rules and guidelines of the site. And that is on HIM.
"Wishing there was a way" means I wish thing were different, but in all honesty, I don't see a way to make it work. :(
Quote: kewlj"Wishing there was a way" means I wish thing were different, but in all honesty, I don't see a way to make it work. :(
Just a simple web form:
Quote: MathExtremistJust a simple web form:
Excellent!
Quote: MathExtremistJust a simple web form:
That's some funny jhit right there. I'll drink to that.
Yeah, he probably is StrictlyAP.Quote: irrationalnoMods, please review the identity of jeffwarren75.
This post made the connection to strictlyAP:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/22281-3-in-ac/8/#post464109
The evidence seems clear that jeffwarren75 = strictlyAP.
He began in 2011 as jeffwarren75, continuing through June 19 2012. The next day (June 20 2012), he switched over to the newly created strictlyAP account.
He continued posting as strictlyAP until the January 2015 ban, except he briefly used jeffwarren75 in September 2012 and April 2014.
Refer to the Jackpot Pictures thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/11985-jackpot-pictures/17/#post326270
Observe strictlyAP's style of posting links to Ultimate X jackpots without comment.
Now skip ahead a few pages to April 14 2014, and you'll see identically styled posts by jeffwarren75.
After the January 2015 ban, both accounts were quiet for a few months, but now jeffwarren75 is actively posting.
But he's giving away Amazon gift cards now! I can be bought.
Quote: DeMangoGreat idea! My top three returning would be Egalite, Jimbo da Bimbo and Mr JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ!
The first and third can still be found crying at Gamblers Glen along with LarryS.
Quote: DeMangoGreat idea! My top three returning would be Egalite, Jimbo da Bimbo and Mr JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ!
If they are giving away free gift cards to anyone that promotes their return? Get the card, then kick their silly asses off again.
Maybe they will give away gift cards again after that?
That could be AP... Just saying
Quote: irrationalnoMods, please review the identity of jeffwarren75.
This post made the connection to strictlyAP:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/22281-3-in-ac/8/#post464109
The evidence seems clear that jeffwarren75 = strictlyAP.
He began in 2011 as jeffwarren75, continuing through June 19 2012. The next day (June 20 2012), he switched over to the newly created strictlyAP account.
He continued posting as strictlyAP until the January 2015 ban, except he briefly used jeffwarren75 in September 2012 and April 2014.
Refer to the Jackpot Pictures thread:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/11985-jackpot-pictures/17/#post326270
Observe strictlyAP's style of posting links to Ultimate X jackpots without comment.
Now skip ahead a few pages to April 14 2014, and you'll see identically styled posts by jeffwarren75.
After the January 2015 ban, both accounts were quiet for a few months, but now jeffwarren75 is actively posting.
So, I've reviewed both accounts as you requested. I'm not impressed with how you've done this, as you're obviously not new, and are spoofing the IP's you're using on this board with a masking service, and have a clear vendetta going (creating an account to attack another member is a nuke offense). So your sockpuppet account is nuked.
That doesn't change the facts as you've reported them here. Both jeffwarren and strickly do report the exact same bonus win picture as their own, and use the same picture hosting service. There are similarities in writing/posting style. And further, the gap in strictly's participation is matched by jeffwarren's posting in the interim in April 2014, as well as the sequence you noted in 2015, though there is overlap on the accounts' postings in 2012 for some reason.
So, jeffwarren is banned, nuclear option, duplicate ID of a previously banned member.
The picture comparisons are (for the record):
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/19439-biggest-chip-youve-held/9/#post393403
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/22281-3-in-ac/7/#post463159
I have sent an email address to jeffwarren in PM in case he wants to discuss this further, since the account is locked.
Umm..... Don't all the sock-puppets(at least the good ones ) use a masking service? If not how is it that some known sock-puppets were able to make so many fake accounts in a short period of time? Do you think they drove all over town with different devices just to get fresh new IP'sQuote: beachbumbabsSo, I've reviewed both accounts as you requested. I'm not impressed with how you've done this, as you're obviously not new, and are spoofing the IP's you're using on this board with a masking service, and have a clear vendetta going. So your sockpuppet account is nuked.
.
It's obvious many people were not new, I was asked not to out them because it was making the forum an unfriendly place, even though I was right most of the time and it was obvious.
"I'm not impressed with how you've done this, as you're obviously not new" I'm impressed with his detective work.
You can't be certain he was a former member at all. Someone else could've told a friend or family member all this information and asked him make an account to bring it to light(Personally I doubt that was the case).
More than one person knew that they were one in the same . I'm surprised you or other mods didn't notice, NVM, your kind heart (I truthfully mean that) is usually looking for reasons that it's not a socky.
Does this set a precedent for future suspected sock-puppets and suspensions?
If you had sufficient evidence who the person was that made this "anonymous" SP account and he was a current member what punishment would they receive?
I am ambivalent to the actual situation, I'm just curious as to what this means moving forward for other obvious serial sock-puppets.
Quote: beachbumbabsand have a clear vendetta going (creating an account to attack another member is a nuke offense). So your sockpuppet account is nuked.
Our first suicide bomber.
Quote:Our first suicide bomber.
Instead of paradise, he gets Ellis Island; instead of 72 virgins, he gets 72 pear-shaped, gray-haired slot attendants.
Quote: AxelWolf
"I'm not impressed with how you've done this, as you're obviously not new" I'm impressed with his detective work.
You can't be certain he was a former member at all. Someone else could've told a friend or family member all this information and asked him make an account to bring it to light(Personally I doubt that was the case).
I really don't keep up with all this drama. I generally don't have the interest or time. It took me quite a while to figure out what a sock puppet was and still am only guessing at the definition based on use of the term on this site. I already spend too much time, just reading and participating on the site.
But Axel brings up an interesting point concerning IP addresses and family and friends. I mean I live in a household with 2 other people that I define as AP's and one that thinks he is. So 2.5 OTHER AP's. One occasionally reads the site on my account, but has shown no interest in participating. (I think that is more about spying on me). The others absolutely no interest, as a matter of fact they think I have a problem for the amount of time I spend on line.
But what if one did and set up an account on the same computer with same IP address???? Am I the only one in this situation? I know of a couple husband and wife combos that gamble, not necessarily participate on sites. I mean what if Mrs EvenBob wanted to become a member? Or the girlfriend that Axel claims he has? <- lol. (just kidding axel). Just food for thought.
So don't worry about. You're such a non issue anyways that you could move your and hubby's entire families in, have them all join, and we'd never see on account of never needing to look.
And I was enjoying following JeffWarren posts/TRs.
Thought I might get lucky and get me one a dem gift card thingys.
I guess NOT!
