Discussion about the Suspension List
Quote: AxelWolfWhen did the absolutely no PI rule happen? I disagree with this " In fact, prior to EvenBob's post, but after the inception of the new Rule, the phrase had actually only been used once...at all."
"Tin foil hat" and even more colorful descriptions can still be used. (AFAIK). Just can't apply it to members or references to their families.
If I'm wrong someone will correct me, I'm sure.
Quote: AxelWolfWhen did the absolutely no PI rule happen? I disagree with this " In fact, prior to EvenBob's post, but after the inception of the new Rule, the phrase had actually only been used once...at all."
From version 2.1 of the Forum Rules:
"Absolutely no personal insults. If you disagree with another forum member, politely attack the writing, not the writer. (Amended 2/23/14 to not allow personal insults at all. The previous policy was more lenient.)"
So...if TFH was used to insult a member in any way after 2/23/2014, the result should have been a suspension.
Quote: AxelWolfWhen did the absolutely no PI rule happen? I disagree with this " In fact, prior to EvenBob's post, but after the inception of the new Rule, the phrase had actually only been used once...at all."
That happened in February of last year, I cited the specific date in my post.
Wizard also created a thread on it at the time the Rules were amended:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/17160-forum-rules-2-1-effective-2-23-14/
Quote: RonC
So...if TFH was used to insult a member in any way after 2/23/2014, the result should have been a suspension.
That's 100% correct!
Further, what I pointed out in my first post on this matter, in reference to, "55 times," and, "Got away with it before," is that the Search function on this site actually transfers someone searching to Google, but in a way that Google only searches for results from this site. There is a Google search function that allows a person to search using date parameters, and what one can see is that, with exception to EvenBob's post, "Tinfoil hat," had never been used to directly insult a Member since the new Rule took effect.
Quote: 1BBCan I push the button on the fake ID guy? I want to see how it feels. :-)
I think I offered a way for you to do that. The price may not have been right but everything has one. If you need me to negotiate for you, I can provide my fees in advance.l
Side wager?Quote: Mission146That's 100% correct!
Further, what I pointed out in my first post on this matter, in reference to, "55 times," and, "Got away with it before," is that the Search function on this site actually transfers someone searching to Google, but in a way that Google only searches for results from this site. There is a Google search function that allows a person to search using date parameters, and what one can see is that, with exception to EvenBob's post, "Tinfoil hat," had never been used to directly insult a Member since the new Rule took effect.
Quote: AxelWolfSide wager?
Perhaps not, but I'd be interested in what you're seeing when you do the search.
Quote: AxelWolfConspiracy theorist would be an insult as well correct?
Are you going to investigate every possible insult that wasn't tagged by a mod?
Pretty sure you'll win that argument, but what point do you want to make?
Wouldn't use search results, I would have to look at old threads, but I can't see the benefit of doing that. If I show you, and it was used, will that person get suspended? I think it will just end up being another argument. Because it's unfair not to suspend someone that did. If it's someone you guys would hate to suspend, then someone will argue intent or some BS and find a way out of actually suspending them. If its someone that's on the moderators hit list, then no doubt he will get suspended.Quote: Mission146Perhaps not, but I'd be interested in what you're seeing when you do the search.
Again i'm not buying it, that the tinfoil hat comment has or was ever considered a suspenseful offence by anyone until now.
We need a list now I guess.
If I were to say "Man you're crazy that absolutely untrue there's no such thing as Bigfoot" That sounds like an insult to some.
Quote: AxelWolfConspiracy theorist would be an insult as well correct?
I should have taken the bet, I put, "Tinfoil Hat," in quotes. Alterations of, "Tinfoil Hat," would not have caused me to lose the bet.
Quote: AxelWolfWouldn't use search results, I would have to look at old threads, but I can't see the benefit of doing that.
The search results do look at old threads, I just didn't take the bet against you because I thought you might have figured out some kind of loophole, and you're smarter than I am...
Let me start by saying i don't care if you complain, agree or disagree with suspensions, rules or moderators, It truly doesn't bother me. You have the right to voice your opinions. I even agree with much of what you're implying and like your posts.Quote: 1BBI think you're onto to something, RS, and that is the word seems. You say it seems that I complain about every suspension but do I or does selective memory extend outside the casino? Please feel to review my posts to find the truth. You won't be the first. Who's to decide what's legitimate? Would you like to say anything to the others in this thread that share my opinion or are they legitimate?
However, you are always acting innocent. It's obvious that you purposely craft your words so what you say is ambiguous. I know, I know you're not a mind reader like me and all that.
Isn't it odd that a fair amount of members all see similar things? I guess we must all be nut jobs, because you're totally innocent and misunderstood.
Just own it and keep on being yourself, we wouldn't want it any other way.
Now I can call you crazy. NO LOOP HOLE, I just remember someone using it. Hell it was probably me. I probably said someone has a tinfoil hat on or something like that.Quote: Mission146The search results do look at old threads, I just didn't take the bet against you because I thought you might have figured out some kind of loophole, and you're smarter than I am...
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Is calling someone a Conspiracy theorist an insult, yes or no? And why not, if no? I can't wait to hear the logic behind this.
FYI I'm not picking on you or anybody just, discussing stuff. You are all doing a fine job.
2 new WOV mods IC. Hmmm....who's getting demoted ?
Quote: AxelWolfNow I can call you crazy. NO LOOP HOLE, I just remember someone using it. Hell it was probably me. I probably said someone has a tinfoil hat on or something like that.
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Is calling someone a Conspiracy theorist an insult, yes or no and why not if no? I can't wait to hear the logic behind this.
No, the only time in the date range was a Member referring to his own, "Tinfoil hat."
Is calling someone a Conspiracy theorist an insult, yes or no? And why not, if no? I can't wait to hear the logic behind this.Quote: Mission146No, the only time in the date range was a Member referring to his own, "Tinfoil hat."
Tough one isn't it? That's going to be an interesting catch 22(suspension city). However, I'm confident you'll come up with a "logical" difference.
Perhaps Conspiracy theorist is considered less harsh.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/15693-2016-election/173/#post454258
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/15693-2016-election/114/#post355468
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/other-games/20809-2016-election-odds/8/#post431404
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/20056-ibeatyouraces-deleted-posts/#post409130
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/19365-how-do-cards-work-in-video-poker/4/#post390340
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/20556-no-safety-no-overtime-superbowl-bets-out-wizard-what-will-you-do/15/#post428837
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/18435-miscellaneous-discussion-thread/63/#post385675
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/17988-smoking/10/#post354742
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/19365-how-do-cards-work-in-video-poker/9/#post390645
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/3853-discussion-about-the-suspension-list/405/#post397974
and here are 2 guys who even pointed out the "tinfoil hat" insult
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/off-topic/20425-time-for-a-reverse-ferguson/32/#post420437
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/3853-discussion-about-the-suspension-list/522/#post432822
pick apart each one and tell us why they don't fit the PI rule
perhaps you can insult people as long as you phrase it right.
Mods clearly visited some of them treads.
"People who want to believe science was bought off, or the only science that was good was the outliers, fine. Fine. It's tinfoil hats for you."
People is the clue. "You people" who want to believe that wear tinfoil hats.
That's no more a personal insult than all the comments denigrating liberals or conservatives in the political threads. Even though I may be a liberal, that doesn't make every comment "personal" unless it is about me.
Frankly though, posting links and not bothering to argue what each one is, is work you should do first.
(Although, if a mod sees mine is clearly an personal insult and not ambiguous at best, then I will take my ban.)
Edit -- also many negative comments are on the forum about people who believe in systems. Unless those comments are personal they certainly wouldn't qualify either, but they certainly should be considered insults)
Business Insider writes "Saying someone is "wearing a tin foil hat" or "is a tin foil hat" means that they have paranoia or a belief in conspiracy theories, especially involving government surveillance or paranormal beings."
http://www.businessinsider.com/origin-of-the-term-tin-foil-hat-2013-6#ixzz3dgw02Kzb
Wikipedia says "The notion of wearing homemade headgear for protection has become a popular stereotype and byword for paranoia, persecutory delusions, and belief in pseudo science and conspiracy theories."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat
I think the reason that there is such a ruckus about someone being suspended for accusing another member of donning a tinfoil hat is that it is the equivalent of calling them a "conspiracy theorist" and not some wildly nasty insult. It sets the bar so low for a personal insult that it opens the door for something like "conspiracy theorist" being deemed an insult. I fully understand the rule but it really is like going .01 mile over the speed limit...you are speeding but only a cop who really wants to write you a ticket will stop you and write it.
...and that goes to the EB thing. I know there is no love lost in a lot of people's opinions of EB. He has upset some people, been accused of trolling, etc. but he works hard to stay between the lines when it comes to what he says. He and a few others are masters at this. They don't bug me much; I can easily ignore them (just like EB ignores every request for a few hints about his winning roulette method/system/pattern). So some celebrated his banning for this very minor infraction. I get it, but I don't think it does much for the board.
Now I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and go back to studying conspiracies...there is some wild stuff out there...Patton's murder...JFK's assassination...biased dice...casino's cheating...the mainstream media...
Quote: 1BBI guess we all have different levels of what insults us. I looked up tin foil hat and read all the definitions. While not flattering, I would not be insulted by it and I doubt that most people in a live, face to face conversation would be. I'm not telling anyone else how to feel, just stating my own opinion. The term appears numerous times in this forum but this is the first suspension that I recall over it. I guess I'm just not that sensitive over something on an anonymous internet forum.
Let's see if Bob's suspension carries over to DT. That should be interesting. I'm sure he will return a new man in three days. Here's a chance to gain some posts on him for those who find it important.
For those joining late, here's the post that I made 90 posts and 10 pages ago. For this I have been insulted, maligned, lied about, accused of being someone other than I really am, told not to participate in this thread and told to leave the forum. I did not offer an opinion on Bob's suspension, I did not say that tinfoil hat was not an insult and I did not say anything about the administration of the forum in that post. Keep on attacking the writing.
Quote: AxelWolfLet me start by saying i don't care if you complain, agree or disagree with suspensions, rules or moderators, It truly doesn't bother me. You have the right to voice your opinions. I even agree with much of what you're implying and like your posts.
However, you are always acting innocent. It's obvious that you purposely craft your words so what you say is ambiguous. I know, I know you're not a mind reader like me and all that.
Isn't it odd that a fair amount of members all see similar things? I guess we must all be nut jobs, because you're totally innocent and misunderstood.
Just own it and keep on being yourself, we wouldn't want it any other way.
Now this post of Axel's I like. Kinda puts 1BB in his place, and does so in a fairly accurate, if incomplete, description.
But of course 1BB could choose to find it insulting, could point out that he felt insulted, could demand retribution.
But then, hasn't 1BB already stated that he gives a pass, in advance, to anyone that would like to insult him?
So the rule is what the rule is, and I think the intent is good as it discourages some of the 'rude behaviour' that would exist without it.
Yes, some of the careful word crafters tippy toe along the edge of insult admirably if you admire that sort of thing.
It has to be laborious and tedious for the admins to watch us all, my thanks to them for their patience.
Would not be a good idea for me to have one of those buttons, I get downright hasty at times ;-)
So moving forward, my only feeble suggestion would be that everyone try to have a a bit thicker skin but if you really feel you have been insulted enough that you want to trouble the admins with it then demand justice for yourself. Perhaps you shouldn't demand justice for someone else that didn't feel insulted, or demand justice for yourself because you weren't treated 100% equally with your little suspension.
This is a colorful place, I'm happy with it. I and truly enjoy some of the more colorful individuals, whether in tin foil hats or not.
Play hard, play nice.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLNow this post of Axel's I like. Kinda puts 1BB in his place, and does so in a fairly accurate, if incomplete, description.
But of course 1BB could choose to find it insulting, could point out that he felt insulted, could demand retribution.
But then, hasn't 1BB already stated that he gives a pass, in advance, to anyone that would like to insult him?
So the rule is what the rule is, and I think the intent is good as it discourages some of the 'rude behaviour' that would exist without it.
Yes, some of the careful word crafters tippy toe along the edge of insult admirably if you admire that sort of thing.
It has to be laborious and tedious for the admins to watch us all, my thanks to them for their patience.
Would not be a good idea for me to have one of those buttons, I get downright hasty at times ;-)
So moving forward, my only feeble suggestion would be that everyone try to have a a bit thicker skin but if you really feel you have been insulted enough that you want to trouble the admins with it then demand justice for yourself. Perhaps you shouldn't demand justice for someone else that didn't feel insulted, or demand justice for yourself because you weren't treated 100% equally with your little suspension.
This is a colorful place, I'm happy with it. I and truly enjoy some of the more colorful individuals, whether in tin foil hats or not.
Play hard, play nice.
I thought it was a nice post. If that's putting me in my place I'll take it. Yes, I give everyone a pass. What is not clear is whether the administrators are honoring my request because none of them have specifically addressed it. What is clear is that no one has gotten suspended for insulting me. Perhaps I should put it in my signature not to suspend anyone for insulting me but I don't want to diminish the wise words of Ghandi that are currently in my signature.
I'm glad you posted, TwoFeathers. If I may stray from this spellbinding topic for a moment, I would like to wish you, if you are a father, and each and every father in the WOV family a very happy Father's Day. For those of us who have lost our fathers it can be bittersweet but we will always have our memories.
Quote: MaxPenIn my opinion, a person would have to be pretty thin skinned to care about being called a tinfoil hat wearer. I might be ever so slightly insulted if someone called me a tinfoil hat wearing mofo though. Just felt like throwing my 2 into the noncents.
I am insulted that you think someone else is thinned skinned for a non insult. ;-)
Quote: GWAEI am insulted that you think someone else is thinned skinned for a non insult. ;-)
And I am insulted that feel you have the right judge what is or not an insult.
Quote: 1BBFor this I have been insulted, maligned, lied about, accused of being someone other than I really am, told not to participate in this thread and told to leave the forum.
In my opinion, if all of these things you allege are true, it is not because of a single post. But I'm sure you already know that.
Quote: Dalex64In my opinion, if all of these things you allege are true, it is not because of a single post. But I'm sure you already know that.
Does that justify it in your opinion? That sounds like the 'he must have done something so let's get him for this' argument.
Is this your first post in this thread? Regardless, thanks for keeping the discussion alive. We wouldn't want the most popular thread on this gambling forum to slip to second place.
If you're a father, a very happy Father's Day to you. Enjoy!
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."
What would the hatman say at a time like this?
Quote: BozAnd I am insulted that feel you have the right judge what is or not an insult.
and I am insulted that you have out witted me.
What say the mods about the list of links provided about the tinfoil hat comments?
I think they have a clarification but they just won't tell us, because if we knew, we might try to take over the place?Quote: AxelWolfI'm insulted that I haven't got clarification on conspiracy theorist usage.
It don't take a hat to be suspicious.
Quote: 1BBI thought it was a nice post. If that's putting me in my place I'll take it. Yes, I give everyone a pass. What is not clear is whether the administrators are honoring my request because none of them have specifically addressed it. What is clear is that no one has gotten suspended for insulting me. Perhaps I should put it in my signature not to suspend anyone for insulting me but I don't want to diminish the wise words of Ghandi that are currently in my signature.
I'm glad you posted, TwoFeathers. If I may stray from this spellbinding topic for a moment, I would like to wish you, if you are a father, and each and every father in the WOV family a very happy Father's Day. For those of us who have lost our fathers it can be bittersweet but we will always have our memories.
Thanks 1BB. As soon as I had hit the send button I thought about the Father's Day date and wished I had mentioned. Almost went back and quoted myself so I could add the thought. I'm glad you did. I am a father, and have lost my father, and my mother, both to dementia of one sort or another in the last 10 years. Each were under my care during the final years of their very separate lives. I tried hard but feel I should have done a better job in each case. It was about as tough as it gets. Lost one of two brothers, and a handicapped sister (also under my care during the last several years of her life) in the last two years. I'm surprised the monument stone company hasn't offered me a players card......
Happy Fathers Day to you, find happiness where and when you can.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm insulted that I haven't got clarification on conspiracy theorist usage.
What say the mods about the list of links provided about the tinfoil hat comments?
I'll go over those later. I didn't consider that someone might put a space between, 'Tin,' and, 'Foil,' so that wasn't in my Search. I guess either way is correct.
And, again, leniency should not be the default policy, so I stand by the statement that any Personal Insults should result in a Suspension. That's if we go strictly by the book.
Quote: 1BBThose of us who are self-deprecating on occasion had better watch it. Rule 1. (Amended 2/23/14 to not allow insults at all). "Strictly by the book" could get a person suspended for insulting themselves could it not?
If the rule was used on you or me, most would applaud it. Though you would defend me I'm sorry to say, i would not return the favor. But do note I would respect you and take any punishment I would get, deserved or not if (when?) you buy the site. Because the owner gets to make the rules and the customer gets to decide if they want to patronize any business. Naturally assuming you follow any/all legal requirements. But most people understand that. And I for one appreciated the happy Fathers Day wishes.
Quote: BozIf the rule was used on you or me, most would applaud it. Though you would defend me I'm sorry to say, i would not return the favor. But do note I would respect you and take any punishment I would get, deserved or not if (when?) you buy the site. Because the owner gets to make the rules and the customer gets to decide if they want to patronize any business. Naturally assuming you follow any/all legal requirements. But most people understand that. And I for one appreciated the happy Fathers Day wishes.
Boz, you've mentioned me buying this site several times. Do you have inside information that it's for sale? If you want to go halves just say so. :-)
Didn't someone get banned for pointing out that this site was a business?
Quote: 1BBBoz, you've mentioned me buying this site several times. Do you have inside information that it's for sale? If you want to go halves just say so. :-)
Didn't someone get banned for pointing out that this site was a business?
As I have said before, EVERYTHING is for sale, it's just all about the price. And if I go down for saying that it gives you something to defend me for. And I know you will defend me and all others you see as "victims" of injustice.
Quote: BozAs I have said before, EVERYTHING is for sale, it's just all about the price. And if I go down for saying that it gives you something to defend me for. And I know you will defend me and all others you see as "victims" of injustice.
I noticed and it was commented on that in the boat marina with all the boats tied to the walkway, there were very few FOR SALE signs, but all boat owners know, the only thing missing is the sign.
Quote: BozIt may not be $400k...
I say they take it. But start lower. :)
ZCore13
Quote: Mission146I'll go over those later.
I won't, but it's not to be intentionally disrespectful. I just... it's all so silly, ain't it?
Since many of the comments seem to be about "the line" and where it's drawn, I felt I should at least comment about that. I personally try to focus on intent. That's not perfect and leaves some wiggle room within my translation of a comment, but I can't find a way to do as Mission says and ding every insult. I'm a sensitive guy, ya know? And in something as ridiculous as the "Luck be a Lady" thread, I could find pages of comments that could be insulting to many members here, male and female alike. That's too much. So "every insult"? No. Because none of those opinions, and that's what they are, opinions, were made to intentionally hurt or rile or inflame. Diversity, difference of opinions, whatever you call it, I'm not taking on the task of sanitizing this place and scrutinizing the feelings of every single person that I can remember and how each individual could possibly construe every comment.
"Whatever on your accomplishments, it's easy when you're shooting at a lower bar" is something I wouldn't touch, even though someone could be insulted by it. Telling Babs to "Go make me a sammich" would be more the directed nonsense intending to inflame that I would ding.
So... just don't be a d#$%. It ain't hard. But for those who only want to know where the line is so they can toe it, I dunno what to tell you.
It moves. Godspeed.
Quote: BozAs I have said before, EVERYTHING is for sale, it's just all about the price. And if I go down for saying that it gives you something to defend me for. And I know you will defend me and all others you see as "victims" of injustice.
Pretty sure I have seen stories about tiny buildings or house of people refusing to sell to business interests, and being offered ridiculous amounts of money and still refusing.
Quote: rxwinePretty sure I have seen stories about tiny buildings or house of people refusing to sell to business interests, and being offered ridiculous amounts of money and still refusing.
So Vera Coking turned down $1M wanted $5M at one point and got less than 600k. It just showed Everyone has a price. If it doesn't make sense for the buyer I get it. But in business there is a price 99.9% of the time.
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
Ted and Mike. And now Mike's kids are up and coming stars in the WWF...er WWE.
Can I get a yes or no? is calling someone a conspiracy theorist a PI or not?Quote: Mission146I'll go over those later. I didn't consider that someone might put a space between, 'Tin,' and, 'Foil,' so that wasn't in my Search. I guess either way is correct.
And, again, leniency should not be the default policy, so I stand by the statement that any Personal Insults should result in a Suspension. That's if we go strictly by the book.
To be clear I'm definitely not trying to see how close to the line anyone can get. I just think it's unfair for someone to get suddenly suspended using a phrase or word that's been used many times openly. Many people were counting the days before Bob got suspended. But at least make it something he knew was wrong.Quote: FaceI won't, but it's not to be intentionally disrespectful. I just... it's all so silly, ain't it?
Since many of the comments seem to be about "the line" and where it's drawn, I felt I should at least comment about that. I personally try to focus on intent. That's not perfect and leaves some wiggle room within my translation of a comment, but I can't find a way to do as Mission says and ding every insult. I'm a sensitive guy, ya know? And in something as ridiculous as the "Luck be a Lady" thread, I could find pages of comments that could be insulting to many members here, male and female alike. That's too much. So "every insult"? No. Because none of those opinions, and that's what they are, opinions, were made to intentionally hurt or rile or inflame. Diversity, difference of opinions, whatever you call it, I'm not taking on the task of sanitizing this place and scrutinizing the feelings of every single person that I can remember and how each individual could possibly construe every comment.
"Whatever on your accomplishments, it's easy when you're shooting at a lower bar" is something I wouldn't touch, even though someone could be insulted by it. Telling Babs to "Go make me a sammich" would be more the directed nonsense intending to inflame that I would ding.
So... just don't be a d#$%. It ain't hard. But for those who only want to know where the line is so they can toe it, I dunno what to tell you.
It moves. Godspeed.
Bob and just about everyone was certain it wasn't a suspendable offence. I'm certain I used it before, sometimes it seems appropriate. See Biased dice thread and gaffed machine crap.
Mission made it sound as if Bob was the first to use it since the new policy and that's why Bob got tagged. Oops that's not so. Now it seem like it was a biased suspension. If that is the case, just say so, geez.
Simple just say:
Hey Bob, IMO you are always walking the line, so I decided to push you off it. I might be biased(Take it up with Mike) I didn't like the spirit of your tinfoil hat comment. They themselves didn't find it amusing. IMO it doesn't fit that persons description. We reserve the right to suspend or give leeway when considering comments like this. Some people will have a shorter leash.
