Discussion about the Suspension List

Quote: AxelWolf

It's probably not going to end well.

I think that's a matter of opinion. :P

Quote: RS

I think that's a matter of opinion. :P

It seems as if he went on a tilt in the manner B9 did upon the return from his last suspension before getting the boot...if there is a lesson to be learned, it is to not come back upset. Just stay away until calmed down.

Maybe we should require posters to suck their thumbs for ten minutes before posting in this thread. Too much wah wah bs. Either that or they're masochists getting punished for free.

Quote: RonC

It seems as if he went on a tilt in the manner B9 did upon the return from his last suspension before getting the boot...if there is a lesson to be learned, it is to not come back upset. Just stay away until calmed down.

Thing is a few just never seem to calm down. S2 is about the only person who was suspended and left 100% quietly. Others get on that "I want to be fired" trip. When I was in management they stressed how suspending would work on some people and on others would just be a speed bump to being fired.

Quote: AZDuffman

Thing is a few just never seem to calm down. S2 is about the only person who was suspended and left 100% quietly. Others get on that "I want to be fired" trip. When I was in management they stressed how suspending would work on some people and on others would just be a speed bump to being fired.

+1

I was an admin/moderator on a forum, and people would be fairly good members. But, as soon as they'd get a suspension, boom, highway to hell. From then on, all they'd want to do is stir up trouble. Granted, a few members would get their suspension(s), serve their time and come back just as good, or even better.


Some though, some were just always plain bad.

mcallister suspended? for that?

That's messed up, man.

It's been nine hours since Sonuvabish went on the Suspension List and his punishment is still not listed. Perhaps they're waiting for the full court to convene. I don't envy anyone having to make that decision, especially considering the most recent 7 day suspension of mickeycrimm.

Damn, I go away for a few days and come back to 8 new pages on this thread.

Quote: 1BB

It's been nine hours since Sonuvabish went on the Suspension List and his punishment is still not listed. Perhaps they're waiting for the full court to convene. I don't envy anyone having to make that decision, especially considering the most recent 7 day suspension of mickeycrimm.

It's listed now. Nuke. Duplicate of accounts including BizzyB and others.

How to avoid being suspended:

1) Avoid the "Discussion about the Suspension List"

2)....

Quote: RS

+1

I was an admin/moderator on a forum

Picture or it didn't happen.

Quote: 1BB

It's been nine hours since Sonuvabish went on the Suspension List and his punishment is still not listed. Perhaps they're waiting for the full court to convene. I don't envy anyone having to make that decision, especially considering the most recent 7 day suspension of mickeycrimm.

Fortunately, we figured out he had duplicate accounts. That made the sentencing much easier.

Odds SOB will return under another assumed name:

Yes -1000
No +800

Quote: tringlomane

It's listed now. Nuke. Duplicate of accounts including BizzyB and others.

Well, that's one way to solve the problem. Do we have any experts here? Has the technology to weed out duplicate accounts dramatically improved? How accurate is it? I ask because out of the three accounts attributed to him two are over a year old and one is almost a year old. Why wasn't he connected to them earlier? I'm not questioning anything, just trying to expand my computer knowledge.

I would never secretly create a duplicate account because I would not disrespect the forum like that. If anyone ever claims that I have done that, they are either lying or my account was tampered with without my knowledge. You all have my word on that.

Quote: Wizard

Fortunately, we figured out he had duplicate accounts. That made the sentencing much easier.

Odds SOB will return under another assumed name:

Yes -1000
No +800

$2 line? I thought we were friends?!

Quote: Mosca

How to avoid being suspended:

1) Avoid the "Discussion about the Suspension List"

2)....

Wise words from a wise man.

Quote: Wizard

Fortunately, we figured out he had duplicate accounts. That made the sentencing much easier.

Odds SOB will return under another assumed name:

Yes -1000
No +800

Questions Is it jufo or Jufo81 if its jufo then that's sick because I believe he was sockpuppet baiting himself.

Obviously he had A VPN so how did you find out?

Quote: 1BB

Well, that's one way to solve the problem. Do we have any experts here? Has the technology to weed out duplicate accounts dramatically improved? How accurate is it? I ask because out of the three accounts attributed to him two are over a year old and one is almost a year old. Why wasn't he connected to them earlier? I'm not questioning anything, just trying to expand my computer knowledge.

I would never secretly create a duplicate account because I would not disrespect the forum like that. If anyone ever claims that I have done that, they are either lying or my account was tampered with without my knowledge. You all have my word on that.

He probably accidentally confided in a secret mod.

Quote: AxelWolf

Questions Is it jufo or Jufo81 if its jufo then that's sick because I believe he was sockpuppet baiting himself.

Obviously he had A VPN so how did you find out?

The BizzyB account surprised me. His last post was over a year ago and he mentions jufo in it, just plain jufo, not Jufo81. I don't see a lot of similarities between Sonuvabish and BizzyB but I'm just an amateur sleuth at best.

Quote: AxelWolf

He probably accidentally confided in a secret mod.

Let me guess.

Quote: 1BB

I'm just an amateur sleuth at best.

Just don't tell what you believe to be the truth until you know that it's not.

Add on: Edit...

Quote: 1BB

Well, that's one way to solve the problem. Do we have any experts here? Has the technology to weed out duplicate accounts dramatically improved? How accurate is it? I ask because out of the three accounts attributed to him two are over a year old and one is almost a year old. Why wasn't he connected to them earlier? I'm not questioning anything, just trying to expand my computer knowledge.

Quote: 1BB

The BizzyB account surprised me. His last post was over a year ago and he mentions jufo in it, just plain jufo, not Jufo81. I don't see a lot of similarities between Sonuvabish and BizzyB but I'm just an amateur sleuth at best.

Just for you, 1BB. Hopefully this will serve as a good faith gesture to help instill some confidence in the WoV police.

Son has been on my mind for a long while. Ever get the feeling you've seen someone before? Same thing. I had a feeling he was a sock, I just usually don't care about things like that. Logan, Varm, B9, they could all be back here right now. I don't care. All I care about is people acting a fool. Son was acting a fool.

So, with temps in the -20's and me on a three week bye from hockey, I had nothing to do and I got really bored. Son happened to go off during this time, so I decided to occupy my mind with a little investigation.

I saw his IP matched with the aforementioned. So I pulled everything up and started reading. You know, just in case. So, for your consideration, here's what I found...

Exhibit A - Biz was oftentimes rude and confrontational. You know the type. The type that can't just accept differences of opinion but seems to take said differences personal and respond in kind. Sound familiar? It should, because Son did the same thing.

Exhibit B - Biz stopped posting at the tail end of January '14 after receiving a 30 day suspension. Son arrived 7 - 10 days later and Biz hasn't posted again since.

Exhibit C - Biz posted in flurries, oftentimes posting 10-20 times per day for several days in a row. Son, same thing.

Exhibit D - Son is well written. Sentence structure, flow, grammar, all pretty good. But he has habits, same as we all do. Ellipses, for one. Many use them. Rarely do we use them identically. So look at Son's use. Every time they're apparent, it's always three dots without spaces to separate the letters adjacent to them. It's always "C'mon...it's getting late" (for example), all run together. Relative to other member's uses I've seen, it's atypical. Yet when I look to Biz, he does the exact same thing. Always three dots, never any spaces.

Quote: Sonuvabish

And personally, I question whoever invented gravity...I'm not sure it's real.

Quote: BizzyB

The non-APs who enjoy melodrama...are you seriously saying I'm supposed to adopt non-AP methods

Exhibit E - Along the line of oddities, Son also sometimes used dashes in the place of ellipses. This is also sort of odd, and the way he used them, doubly so. Often it was a double dash "C'mon--it's getting late" (ex.), also with no spaces separating them. And guess what?

Quote: Sonuvabish

Disliking them just for bad plays makes no sense, as a dealer--as said above--you wouldn't have a job if it were only people like us.

Quote: BizzyB

The only customers who would complain, if my suggestions are correct, are card counters--and these are not welcome guests in the first place.

Exhibit F - As for genuine mistakes? Same thing. Both are spot on with proper writing. But as is typical, everyone goofs sometimes. While Son is spot on with just about everything I've read, he does make one mistake, one which defeats a spell check and one which is likewise pretty uncommon for the members here. He occasionally starts a sentence with a lower case letter. And guess what?

Quote: Sonuvabish

hey, i like 1BB.

Quote: BizzyB

yeah it works. that's why everyone is a millionaire. DO IT!

Exhibit G - AP. Both claim to be one, and both are a certain type. Some claim to be AP and tell you of the ups and downs (kewlj). Some are AP and tell you how it's a business (Axel). And some claim to be AP and are condescending and opinionated about every facet of it. Go read Son. Go read Biz. See if you can piece this one together yourself.

On their own, any one of these examples are laughable. Together, it'd be enough that I'd be calling someone into the office for a full interview and pulling every log of theirs I could find. But I can't do that. So I let him roll right along. In my mind, I had him nailed. In my mind he's a dupe, a troll, and a general PITA. And while the Biz vs Jufo confrontation threw me in the beginning,... kinda makes sense now, doesn't it? I mean, c'mon. Arguing with yourself? Hats off to him. Well played.

All of this and I let him slide. All of his complaints to mods about "poor Son getting picked on", and I let him slide. Convinced he was a dupe and deserved a nuke, and I let him slide. Why? Because we always give people the benefit of the doubt. Always. And if Son had just shut his mouth and been a decent person, I would've sat on all this evidence and done nothing, and Son would still be here.

Perhaps this explains Wiz's occasional frustrations, and why he sometimes verbalizes a "take it or leave it" attitude. It's not because he doesn't care or doesn't appreciate all you've all done to make WoV what it is. It's because we all go to such great lengths to be reasonable and forgiving, and then have to suffer accusations to the contrary. Sometimes, it wears on us.

In conclusion I will reiterate, I posted this to give understanding and hopefully bring us together. It is not my intention to shame you specifically, 1BB, or to discourage people from posting their critiques. I just wanted to show that we're not here playing Cow Flop Bingo and arbitrarily acting against people, or randomly acting out of spite, frustration, or without thought. We actually try; to the best of our abilities, we try.

And if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)

That is some impressive sleuthing, Face.

Quote: Face

In conclusion I will reiterate,

So SOB being nuked is not my fault, is
that what all this means? I wasn't sure,
thanks for clearing it up.

My goodness, Face. You certainly went the extra mile on this one. Transparency is often talked about here, more than it is practiced in my opinion, but you actually demonstrate it. It's comforting to know that no one will be accused of multiple accounts without compelling evidence.

If your post was required reading for new members there would probably be less chicanery here. Well done, sir.

Well done, Face.

So just to be sure, are you saying that Jufo was the same person as Bizzy/Bish as well? I think I called the Bizzy/Bish connection a while back, but Jufo surprises me.

good thing the guy didn't actually try to hide anything...I've got to say there's a case for being too transparent/protective.

I'm not sure how anyone who values his/her time and energy is supposed to respond.

AP school of trolling. Sleuthing yourself into imaginary "doors".

Quote: petroglyph

That is some impressive sleuthing, Face.

Thanks, but it was really pretty "meh". That was just 90 minute cursory glance into things, enough to give me something. It did make me think that if I found all that in an hour then there was tons more to be found, but really. I wasn't looking for an 8hr task to prove beyond shadow of a doubt. I just wanted proof "to satisfaction". You know, so one doesn't go off half cocked.

And I don't think any of this does "prove" anything. If this was a professional investigation, this would serve to justify further prying and certainly wouldn't be enough to convict. But given the limited tools, this plausibility coupled with his recent behavior was enough to wash hands of it and be done. Savvy?

Quote: Deucekies

Well done, Face.

So just to be sure, are you saying that Jufo was the same person as Bizzy/Bish as well? I think I called the Bizzy/Bish connection a while back, but Jufo surprises me.

You know, Jufo was sort of an aside to all this. I didn't really do any looking into him/her, other than by association. I couldn't tell you if there are any of the aforementioned similarities in writing style because I just didn't look that hard. So of everything, this connection may be the biggest reach. He/she does have the same attribute of being completely professional here, yet completely confrontational there. And there was the same "I'll notify a mod" sort of threat during confrontation that Son did. And there was a matching IP. And Jufo likewise stopped posting at the time BizzyB got banned and allegedly became Son. But of course, all of that is pretty weak.

It could be coincidence. Hell, all of it could be coincidence. But it doesn't matter much. Jufo posted 200 times and hasn't done so in 14 months. I'm not sure he/she would notice a ban or even care.

Nice investigation, Face. Reminds me of the days when I used to do a whole bunch of that. Compare forum poster's IP addresses with other forum posters, compare those to IP's of in-game players (since they oftentimes used multiple different usernames in game). Not only that, but also do the same time-line type thing but with game history (oftentimes people would play a game from say, 1am to 2am on UsernameA, then play a game from 230am to 330am on UsernameB). For a while at the beginning, the top-dog who owned it (and the 2nd in-command guy) didn't want to give moderators access to in-game IP addresses. But I did some snooping around, got access to the MySQL databases, used that information to investigate players, which ultimately led to permitting the other moderators to have access to such information, as well as other tools (like being able to search for a specific IP for a ban, search all games with a specific IP, search all IPs in a given game, etc.). While snooping around, though, I found quite a few bans that were never made public and some unbans that weren't legitimate. Also, some of the conspiracy-type people were making funky claims about corruption, were sending PMs to other people that magically got deleted....and sure enough, I looked in the database and was clear evidence the PMs were deleted manually (manually as in, someone accessing the DB, not from a user on the forum deleting a PM in their inbox). Good times were had.

Quote: AxelWolf

Picture or it didn't happen.

Don't need no stinkin' picture! But I might have a screenshot somewhere on an old computer.

Quote: Face

Just for you, 1BB. Hopefully this will serve as a good faith gesture to help instill some confidence in the WoV police.

Son has been on my mind for a long while. Ever get the feeling you've seen someone before? Same thing. I had a feeling he was a sock, I just usually don't care about things like that. Logan, Varm, B9, they could all be back here right now. I don't care. All I care about is people acting a fool. Son was acting a fool.

So, with temps in the -20's and me on a three week bye from hockey, I had nothing to do and I got really bored. Son happened to go off during this time, so I decided to occupy my mind with a little investigation.

I saw his IP matched with the aforementioned. So I pulled everything up and started reading. You know, just in case. So, for your consideration, here's what I found...

Exhibit A - Biz was oftentimes rude and confrontational. You know the type. The type that can't just accept differences of opinion but seems to take said differences personal and respond in kind. Sound familiar? It should, because Son did the same thing.

Exhibit B - Biz stopped posting at the tail end of January '14 after receiving a 30 day suspension. Son arrived 7 - 10 days later and Biz hasn't posted again since.

Exhibit C - Biz posted in flurries, oftentimes posting 10-20 times per day for several days in a row. Son, same thing.

Exhibit D - Son is well written. Sentence structure, flow, grammar, all pretty good. But he has habits, same as we all do. Ellipses, for one. Many use them. Rarely do we use them identically. So look at Son's use. Every time they're apparent, it's always three dots without spaces to separate the letters adjacent to them. It's always "C'mon...it's getting late" (for example), all run together. Relative to other member's uses I've seen, it's atypical. Yet when I look to Biz, he does the exact same thing. Always three dots, never any spaces.



Exhibit E - Along the line of oddities, Son also sometimes used dashes in the place of ellipses. This is also sort of odd, and the way he used them, doubly so. Often it was a double dash "C'mon--it's getting late" (ex.), also with no spaces separating them. And guess what?



Exhibit F - As for genuine mistakes? Same thing. Both are spot on with proper writing. But as is typical, everyone goofs sometimes. While Son is spot on with just about everything I've read, he does make one mistake, one which defeats a spell check and one which is likewise pretty uncommon for the members here. He occasionally starts a sentence with a lower case letter. And guess what?



Exhibit G - AP. Both claim to be one, and both are a certain type. Some claim to be AP and tell you of the ups and downs (kewlj). Some are AP and tell you how it's a business (Axel). And some claim to be AP and are condescending and opinionated about every facet of it. Go read Son. Go read Biz. See if you can piece this one together yourself.

On their own, any one of these examples are laughable. Together, it'd be enough that I'd be calling someone into the office for a full interview and pulling every log of theirs I could find. But I can't do that. So I let him roll right along. In my mind, I had him nailed. In my mind he's a dupe, a troll, and a general PITA. And while the Biz vs Jufo confrontation threw me in the beginning,... kinda makes sense now, doesn't it? I mean, c'mon. Arguing with yourself? Hats off to him. Well played.

All of this and I let him slide. All of his complaints to mods about "poor Son getting picked on", and I let him slide. Convinced he was a dupe and deserved a nuke, and I let him slide. Why? Because we always give people the benefit of the doubt. Always. And if Son had just shut his mouth and been a decent person, I would've sat on all this evidence and done nothing, and Son would still be here.

Perhaps this explains Wiz's occasional frustrations, and why he sometimes verbalizes a "take it or leave it" attitude. It's not because he doesn't care or doesn't appreciate all you've all done to make WoV what it is. It's because we all go to such great lengths to be reasonable and forgiving, and then have to suffer accusations to the contrary. Sometimes, it wears on us.

In conclusion I will reiterate, I posted this to give understanding and hopefully bring us together. It is not my intention to shame you specifically, 1BB, or to discourage people from posting their critiques. I just wanted to show that we're not here playing Cow Flop Bingo and arbitrarily acting against people, or randomly acting out of spite, frustration, or without thought. We actually try; to the best of our abilities, we try.

And if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)

What is this? I'm not Sunuvabich. I used to be his neighbor, we occasionally played cards together. I told him he needs to join a blackjack forum to improve. Aside from a Christmas card, I've had no contact with him in months. If there was an IP match, it's probably from stealing wi-fi in the same building a long time ago. I at least appreciate the compliments on my identical writing style. I did graduate high school. I guess that's uncommon?

I post at a different site; I'm not an f-ing doppelganger. I've been lurking here the entire time, check your logs. I quit posting here because there's lots of rubes, and when you try to explain something to them or contradict false info, the administrators banish you, as I recall. The other person I am supposedly impersonating, he's the main reason I quit posting in the first place. But just for giggles, I definitely was Jufo81--get rid of us both. Leave me out of your weirdness. Trash each other all you want.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Quote: AcesAndEights

What 1BB is getting at is that Zuga is the "top admin" on the site now that it has been sold. And Zuga specifically said early in the debate that he wasn't going to take any action.

Later, the secret admin nuked strictlyAP and the Wizard and the 3 other non-Zuga mods all decided not to contest that nuke.

And nothing of value was lost.

EDIT: 1BB came out with it a couple of pages later. I should really finish the thread before I post a reply.

This analysis is factually incorrect and assumes actions by people who were not involved. As did 1BB in the first place.

It's not up to me to discuss it further, but I'm not willing to let wrong attributions and assumptions go unchallenged any longer.

Okay, well, it wasn't really analysis. I just restated what the Wizard said in this post. The initial statement by Zuga about not taking any action is here.

What is factually incorrect about how I said it? Is Zuga not the "top admin" on the site? I guess I made that assumption since he works for the owners of the site, but then again the Wizard does too. So that was a bad assumption, but everything else I said was based directly on those two posts.

Quote: Kerkebet

Let me guess.




Add on: Edit...

Guess what?

Quote: rdw4potus

But...Zuga did say that no action was warranted. And Wizard did say that a secret admin felt so strongly that they took it upon themself to ban SAP, and he did also say that nobody elected to undo the ban. And...well...we're out of possible "wrong attributions" in A&8's post.

edit: Zuga's post Wiz's post

Thanks RDW...yeah, I keep doing the same thing in this thread and not reading to the end before I reply.

Quote: kewlj

Yeah, the mcallister suspension has rubbed me the wrong way and has me re-thinking my participation here again. I think I will take the "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" option suggested by wizard. This site just is no longer worth my while , nor the type of site I wish to associate with.

Please don't J, I really appreciate the useful info you post on the board.

Just don't pay too close of attention to this thread or the various suspensions.

oh goodie charlespaff just joined

this gives the forum another chance to see the mods bias in action!
buzzard, dmscr, mickeycrim you are all safe with the mods here!

Quote: BizzyB

What is this? I'm not Sunuvabich. I used to be his neighbor, we occasionally played cards together. I told him he needs to join a blackjack forum to improve. Aside from a Christmas card, I've had no contact with him in months. If there was an IP match, it's probably from stealing wi-fi in the same building a long time ago. I at least appreciate the compliments on my identical writing style. I did graduate high school. I guess that's uncommon?

Perhaps you missed the part where said this wasn't "proof"? Or the part where I said it "did not prove beyond a shadow of doubt"? Or the most obvious that Son got bounced but you did not?

As I said, I always give the benefit of doubt. You could have shared the same building, could have been cousins, could have went to the same school, lived in the same town, or a million other things that would cause similarities. The reasons for these similarities are endless. Son isn't gone simply because he matched with someone. Son is primarily gone because of his behavior. All this jazz that I posted was simply "sweetener", a reasonable enough reason to carry out the highest punishment. That's why he was gone, and you were not.

I guess I goofed. Sorry if I caused any offense; enjoy wherever it is that life takes you.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Please don't J, I really appreciate the useful info you post on the board.

Just don't pay too close of attention to this thread or the various suspensions.

I appreciate the kind words AcesAndEights (I'll take the Aces, you can have the eights). I am still weighing whether I want to continue to participate here.

Wizard did contact me via PM and we exchanged a couple messages which gave me a chance to express my feelings as well as hear his. I won't go into more details because The P in PM stands for private. I also wouldn't want a certain someone to take that opportunity to cry about me breaking a rule. I will say that I appreciated the exchange although the explanation didn't really satisfy me.

The reason, this particular incident (the mcallister suspension) bothers me so, is because it is very similar to my one and only suspension, shortly after I began participating here. I felt I was "baited" into a response, which I considered mild, that got me suspended. I let that go at the time, but here several years later, I see the same thing happen again, to a relatively new member, who is the type of member (full-time AP, living in Vegas) that has a lot to offer the site. The kind of member I want to hear more from. The kind of member, others can benefit by his participation. And now who knows if he will be driven off by this non-sense. I have access to him on another site, so it isn't just about my loss. It's what I view as the sites loss if he decides not to participate. I hate to see the bad guy, the bully, win or be rewarded because he achieved exactly what he set out to.

I enjoy participating on this site. I enjoy the topics related to blackjack which I consider my specialty (although I am always looking to continue to learn), and I enjoy participating on some of the other topics and that includes some back and forth that goes along with such topics. But I don't enjoy some of the games that are played by some of the members. A lot of it is third grade crap...only it is grown men (and possibly women, but mostly men) acting that way.

As you can probably tell, I am frustrated right now. I am going to take some time to think about whether I want to waste anymore of my time on a site with such behavior. I might be back at some point, I might not. I don't know. I am sure the site can and will do just fine without my input.

Quote: Face

And I don't think any of this does "prove" anything. If this was a professional investigation, this would serve to justify further prying and certainly wouldn't be enough to convict. .

Are you kidding? You wouldn't want me on a criminal jury(especially yours) Because you had me at Exhibit A. Skip deliberation, I would've sentence Sob and grand master BizzyB to death by electric chair on low voltage, toss in a few botched attempts.

PS. Inspector, you'll be receiving some condescending hate mail from one of my many sockpuppets and a letter from my attorneys.

Quote: kewlj

...that got me suspended. I let that go at the time, but here several years later, I see the same thing happen again, to a relatively new member,...

But see? You are the type I refer to in my many begs for sanity. You got dinged, over what, I can't remember. But you realized it was all on you to respond properly and ignore those who you dislike. You've had "several years" of enjoyment without issue. And as a result of these "several years", tons of people have come to look forward to everything you write and what you're up to. Sharing in your joys of hot starts, consoling when things go cold, and everywhere in between.

Maybe mac got caught up in something that he wasn't responsible for. He's not the first, sure won't be the last. As long as new members join, this will happen again. We could nuke everyone and start fresh, and it will happen again. It is inevitable.

I'll join in the open wishing for you to stay. I won't make you feel guilty about it, but yeah. I'd like it.

Quote: Face

And if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out ;)

*Claps*
Very well done sir.
I actually did the same list in my mind with Varmenti and at least two other Logins that I could identify. This was when I first started reading the site back in October. I currently have around 30 pages bookmarked. This site is like Wikipedia for me. I click one link, then another, then on a person's profile, read some more, Google with WOV in the search field, and oh man what a rabbit hole I sent myself down. I still have so many saved, I don't know if I'll ever get around to reading it all. This is why I waited to join, I was busy reading. That and I don't really have much to contribute beyond useless trivia and a vast knowledge in the firearms arena.

But I have noticed a few banned IDs that were the same person. It doesn't matter now because they're gone. But you guys would have laughed at me when I was screaming at my phone saying "It's the same damn person!" when people were being taken in.
It's small quirks that always give us away.

Well done again Face.

I'd also like to say that I have no history with Son, but I enjoyed his thought process. That being said, I don't care for those who cause undo stress on others. Still, I think having a beer with the guy would be a lark.

Quote: BoulderDamIt

*Claps*
Very well done sir.
I actually did the same list in my mind with Varmenti and at least two other Logins that I could identify. This was when I first started reading the site back in October. I currently have around 30 pages bookmarked. This site is like Wikipedia for me. I click one link, then another, then on a person's profile, read some more, Google with WOV in the search field, and oh man what a rabbit hole I sent myself down. I still have so many saved, I don't know if I'll ever get around to reading it all. This is why I waited to join, I was busy reading. That and I don't really have much to contribute beyond useless trivia and a vast knowledge in the firearms arena.

But I have noticed a few banned IDs that were the same person. It doesn't matter now because they're gone. But you guys would have laughed at me when I was screaming at my phone saying "It's the same damn person!" when people were being taken in.
It's small quirks that always give us away.

Well done again Face.

you sure know a lot about past member for someone who just joined in Jan. who are you?

BUZZ...................BUZZ.................BUZZ...............I know the answer!

what no ones answering?

BUZZ................BUZZ..............BUZZ..............I'm buzzing but no one's answering!

BUZZ..........BUZZ...........BUZZ...........

Maybe my friend charles has the answer!

Quote: BuzzMe

you sure know a lot about past member for someone who just joined in Jan. who are you?

BUZZ...................BUZZ.................BUZZ...............I know the answer!

what no ones answering?

BUZZ................BUZZ..............BUZZ..............I'm buzzing but no one's answering!

BUZZ..........BUZZ...........BUZZ...........

Maybe my friend charles has the answer!

This should be fun.

Quote: BoulderDamIt

*Claps*
Very well done sir.
I actually did the same list in my mind with Varmenti and at least two other Logins that I could identify. This was when I first started reading the site back in October. I currently have around 30 pages bookmarked. This site is like Wikipedia for me. I click one link, then another, then on a person's profile, read some more, Google with WOV in the search field, and oh man what a rabbit hole I sent myself down. I still have so many saved, I don't know if I'll ever get around to reading it all. This is why I waited to join, I was busy reading. That and I don't really have much to contribute beyond useless trivia and a vast knowledge in the firearms arena.

But I have noticed a few banned IDs that were the same person. It doesn't matter now because they're gone. But you guys would have laughed at me when I was screaming at my phone saying "It's the same damn person!" when people were being taken in.
It's small quirks that always give us away.

Well done again Face.

Face ended his "just for me" post with the don't let the door hit you comment. Note the smiley face at the end. He was kidding. Face was not saying this to me. He was saying what the Wizard sometimes says when he doesn't like a post, usually one with a complaint. Face knows that I find that comment to be somewhat unfriendly.

If I may say a few words about Face. He monitors this forum in a nonprejudicial, non emotional even keeled manner. The man does not have a nasty or vindictive bone in his body when it comes to his work here. He treats everyone with the same respect and that's what makes a good administrator. Others could learn a lot from him. I mean others in life, not necessarily others on this site.

Quote: 1BB

Face ended his "just for me" post with the don't let the door hit you comment. Note the smiley face at the end. He was kidding. Face was not saying this to me. He was saying what the Wizard sometimes says when he doesn't like a post, usually one with a complaint. Face knows that I find that comment to be somewhat unfriendly.

If I may say a few words about Face. He monitors this forum in a nonprejudicial, non emotional even keeled manner. The man does not have a nasty or vindictive bone in his body when it comes to his work here. He treats everyone with the same respect and that's what makes a good administrator. Others could learn a lot from him. I mean others in life, not necessarily others on this site.

Totally agree.

Quote: mdh

Totally agree.

me too.

Quote: kewlj

I appreciate the kind words AcesAndEights (I'll take the Aces, you can have the eights). I am still weighing whether I want to continue to participate here.

Wizard did contact me via PM and we exchanged a couple messages which gave me a chance to express my feelings as well as hear his. I won't go into more details because The P in PM stands for private. I also wouldn't want a certain someone to take that opportunity to cry about me breaking a rule. I will say that I appreciated the exchange although the explanation didn't really satisfy me.

The reason, this particular incident (the mcallister suspension) bothers me so, is because it is very similar to my one and only suspension, shortly after I began participating here. I felt I was "baited" into a response, which I considered mild, that got me suspended. I let that go at the time, but here several years later, I see the same thing happen again, to a relatively new member, who is the type of member (full-time AP, living in Vegas) that has a lot to offer the site. The kind of member I want to hear more from. The kind of member, others can benefit by his participation. And now who knows if he will be driven off by this non-sense. I have access to him on another site, so it isn't just about my loss. It's what I view as the sites loss if he decides not to participate. I hate to see the bad guy, the bully, win or be rewarded because he achieved exactly what he set out to.

I enjoy participating on this site. I enjoy the topics related to blackjack which I consider my specialty (although I am always looking to continue to learn), and I enjoy participating on some of the other topics and that includes some back and forth that goes along with such topics. But I don't enjoy some of the games that are played by some of the members. A lot of it is third grade crap...only it is grown men (and possibly women, but mostly men) acting that way.

As you can probably tell, I am frustrated right now. I am going to take some time to think about whether I want to waste anymore of my time on a site with such behavior. I might be back at some point, I might not. I don't know. I am sure the site can and will do just fine without my input.

I share your feelings and have come to appreciate the "block user" button along with some personal self-resolve to NOT click the "show me the post anyway" button. I wish the management here would use Rule 13 to eliminate posters who follow a pattern of behavior of adding nothing of value to the site and doing nothing but detracting and causing conflict. But I've given up hope on that one.

Quote: BuzzMe

you sure know a lot about past member for someone who just joined in Jan. who are you?

BUZZ...................BUZZ.................BUZZ...............I know the answer!

what no ones answering?

BUZZ................BUZZ..............BUZZ..............I'm buzzing but no one's answering!

BUZZ..........BUZZ...........BUZZ...........

Maybe my friend charles has the answer!

That guy's [BoulderDamnit] writing style doesn't sound anything like Buzzard. Yours, on the other hand, does!

BuzzMe is banned, nuclear option, duplicate ID of previously banned member.

Quote: 1BB

Face ended his "just for me" post with the don't let the door hit you comment. Note the smiley face at the end. He was kidding. Face was not saying this to me. He was saying what the Wizard sometimes says when he doesn't like a post, usually one with a complaint. Face knows that I find that comment to be somewhat unfriendly.

Yes, that was a sort of "let's not be so serious" type of joke, and despite that the "breakdown" portion was as a result of your questions, the entire post was for everyone. But, there was a smidgeon of seriousness to that joke which I hope came through. I guess if one could read between the lines, what I meant was that we try our absolute best to do the right thing, oftentimes (IMO) well above what you'd expect from random people working for free on a web forum. It is not my intention to be rude, nor to tell anyone to put an egg in their shoe and beat it. Knowing what I know about Wiz, I feel confident in saying that he feels the same. But as hard as we all try, if one were still finding themselves totally unhappy with the way things run here, I don't know what else to tell them. And that's really where that comment comes from. It's a comment out of frustration that could be better worded, but the foundation remains. We try our very best; if our best is not good enough, what other option is there but to move on to a place that better fits your expectations?

Quote: AcesAndEights

I share your feelings and have come to appreciate the "block user" button along with some personal self-resolve to NOT click the "show me the post anyway" button. I wish the management here would use Rule 13 to eliminate posters who follow a pattern of behavior of adding nothing of value to the site and doing nothing but detracting and causing conflict. But I've given up hope on that one.

First, thanks for the effort in doing your part. As I've never known you as one of those "constant issue" type of people, it's obviously working, and it is appreciated.

As for Rule 13 and "giving up hope", that's much more difficult.

The cliche "one man's trash is another man's treasure" has never been more applicable than it is here. Just look to the recent issue with B9 for an example. There is no question that many had justifiable issues with the guy, issues that eventually led to long term suspensions and an eventual ban. But despite that there was no question that he crossed the line, an equal amount of people felt he should not be nuked. That was a very difficult situation that every mod was involved with, as there were so many irate with him, yet so many coming to his defense.

Every suspension of any member who's been here for a length of time carries this same problem with them. It's a total Catch22 for us in Green. And despite that the Discussion of the Suspension list may seem to tap into the pulse of the forum, I find it misleading. Again, just look to the B9 example. There were constant calls for his head with not much to the contrary, until we banned him. It wasn't until then that guys came out of the woodwork, guys who traditionally never get involved with any of this nonsense, and suddenly, the issue just got a lot bigger and the list of people who were bothered by the situation exploded.

That is, again, why I practically beg for people to take matters into their own hands, block, and ignore. We can only do so much, and every one of our actions brings with it consequence. You, A'sand8's, took the power into your own hands and made your experience better all by yourself, with no consequence whatsoever. Aceofspades took power into his own hands, and instead of being "beaten down" by EB, turned it into a humorous back and forth with him with no consequence whatsoever. These are the types of things I ask for.

I'm not immune to the "pain" of having to swallow a tough pill. I know what it feels like to want to really put someone in their place, but have to bottle it up in the name of decorum. But that "cost" I have to suffer allows me access to a place where I can express my ideas freely, read others' expressions freely, partake in games, make new friends, gain entertainment, learn new things, and have mods work for me to keep it all free of typical internet smut. Sometimes it sucks to be the bigger man. But I can look around myself and see that the "cost" is totally worth it. I can only hope that others feel the same and can find it within themselves to do their part.

To you and all the others, thanks for the compliments. They are well received, and appreciated =)

Quote: 1BB

I was going over the Suspension List to see what type of an offense would get a 7 day suspension as this latest one did. It's not that easy to figure because the ugly, hateful, vile insults against Bob and his family that got 7 days were a 7th offense.

I did find a 7 day suspension which was a member's very first. This is a five year member and an excellent contributor who got the 7 days for offering his opinion about the nuclear option. No vulgarity, no priors, no insulting anyone's family, just stating an opinion. He said "Nuclear option. That is a pile of crap". Seven days.

I am in no way making a complaint, calling anything unfair or making any judgement. I'm merely pointing out what is public information on the Suspension List. As Joe Friday used to say: "Just the facts, ma'am.

My first (only) suspension was also for 7 days, and it was for saying I was glad there was a table in someone's photo.

Quote: sodawater

My first (only) suspension was also for 7 days, and it was for saying I was glad there was a table in someone's photo.

I remember that. I also remember a particularly nasty insult against you in that same thread. That one got the offender 3 days.