Discussion III about the Suspension List
May 22nd, 2022 at 11:49:35 AM
permalink
Your thread was one big troll.Quote: billryanQuote: OnceDearKJewl and MDawg have repeatedly been warned about feuding.
Today, KJewl took a pop without naming MDawg, MDawg was less guarded in his follow-up. I suspended them with penalty to be confirmed.
If either of them think feuding here is acceptable, then they are mistaken. I've lost track of how often they have been warned.
Because of my own history with those members, I have deferred to my fellow moderators to set the penalty.
There's no rush.
link to original post
I don't think they should have been allowed to derail the thread about my recent epiphany.
link to original post
May 22nd, 2022 at 12:16:25 PM
permalink
Quote: OnceDearKewlJ and MDawg have repeatedly been warned about feuding. Today, KewlJ took a pop without naming MDawg,
Oh, there is a rule against feuding?
What is "feuding" in the context of a gambling message board / forum?
If it doesn't rise to the level of insult what specific rule has been broken?
"What, me worry?"
May 22nd, 2022 at 12:33:25 PM
permalink
Quote: MrVQuote: OnceDearKewlJ and MDawg have repeatedly been warned about feuding. Today, KewlJ took a pop without naming MDawg,
Oh, there is a rule against feuding?
What is "feuding" in the context of a gambling message board / forum?
If it doesn't rise to the level of insult what specific rule has been broken?
link to original post
Decent question.
I believe that Wizard was the first to flag 'Feuding' and 'breaking a truce' as reasons for suspension.
We don't have a rule against smearing excrement on the walls, but if we had walls, it would not be tolerated.
MDawg was not suspended by me for feuding, but for his attack on KJ.
Both have been clearly told what behaviours are unacceptable, in thread and privately.If they want to feud, then they can take it elsewhere... Which, of course they have.
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 22nd, 2022 at 1:00:57 PM
permalink
Quote: MrVQuote: OnceDearKewlJ and MDawg have repeatedly been warned about feuding. Today, KewlJ took a pop without naming MDawg,
Oh, there is a rule against feuding?
What is "feuding" in the context of a gambling message board / forum?
If it doesn't rise to the level of insult what specific rule has been broken?
link to original post
MDawg and I have fueded without suspension.
There is a prior history of intervention from mods in the KewlJ/MDawg feud hence THEIR feud isn't tolerated. It's escalated too many times into suspensions anyway.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
May 22nd, 2022 at 1:31:20 PM
permalink
OK, I guess that "exceptions make the rule."
"What, me worry?"
May 22nd, 2022 at 1:38:58 PM
permalink
Quote: MrVQuote: OnceDearKewlJ and MDawg have repeatedly been warned about feuding. Today, KewlJ took a pop without naming MDawg,
Oh, there is a rule against feuding?
What is "feuding" in the context of a gambling message board / forum?
If it doesn't rise to the level of insult what specific rule has been broken?
link to original post
Thank you for your inquiry.
Infractions are handled on a case by case basis.
With that non-answer out of the way, feuding often spills over into violations of rules 1, 4, 5, 7, 9, 12, and 17.
More importantly:
Quote: Rule 20Finally, if the site administrators feel that a member is so disruptive to the site, even while abiding by the rules above, a "nuclear option" may be invoked to permanently ban the offender. This will be used sparingly for only the worst of trolls. (Added 2/20/11)
link to original post
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 1:39:42 PM
permalink
We have all those written rules as guidance for moderators and members alike. But there are precedents which don't get codified. If members choose to test the rules, or the patience of the moderators, they take their chances.Quote: MrVOK, I guess that "exceptions make the rule."
link to original post
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 22nd, 2022 at 1:53:33 PM
permalink
I hope the moderators dont take offense but my view is that moderators should be seen and not heard because moderators by voicing their own opinions could inflame discussions and comments.
May 22nd, 2022 at 2:56:17 PM
permalink
No offence taken.Quote: AlanMendelsonI hope the moderators dont take offense but my view is that moderators should be seen and not heard because moderators by voicing their own opinions could inflame discussions and comments.
link to original post
Moderators are members too, subject to the harshest interpretation of the rules. If you think moderators should be seen and not heard, then what level of subscription fee would you suggest to cover our remuneration?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 22nd, 2022 at 2:58:19 PM
permalink
Quote: AlanMendelsonI hope the moderators dont take offense but my view is that moderators should be seen and not heard because moderators by voicing their own opinions could inflame discussions and comments.
link to original post
I would agree if I didn't see what occurs at that other unmoderated forum for gambling.
The one where you can't discuss your opinions without every racist, homophobic and derogatory curse thrown at you.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
May 22nd, 2022 at 3:04:55 PM
permalink
Quote: OnceDearNo offence taken.Quote: AlanMendelsonI hope the moderators dont take offense but my view is that moderators should be seen and not heard because moderators by voicing their own opinions could inflame discussions and comments.
link to original post
Moderators are members too, subject to the harshest interpretation of the rules. If you think moderators should be seen and not heard, then what level of subscription fee would you suggest to cover our remuneration?
link to original post
Also, we offer ourselves here to discuss all matters of moderation. Though it's not a democracy, you get explanations and interpretations of any and every suspension. We could decide not to give that visibility and just nuke and censor members without a word of explanation or debate. Would you really prefer that?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 22nd, 2022 at 3:12:33 PM
permalink
Quote: darkozI would agree if I didn't see what occurs at that other unmoderated forum for gambling. The one where you can't discuss your opinions without every racist, homophobic and derogatory curse thrown at you.
It takes thick skin sometimes, no question about it, but loosely moderated forums CAN be entertaining and sometimes even informative.
Think of such places as Romper Rooms for the cynics, the bullies, and the unwanted...with the occasional bright spot.
"What, me worry?"
May 22nd, 2022 at 3:21:44 PM
permalink
Quote: AlanMendelsonmoderators by voicing their own opinions could inflame discussions and comments.
In the other thread, Alan stands alone, fielding and responding to a constant barrage and variety of posts from 20 different members, including 4 mods.
Then he is scolded for posting excessively, and remaining consistent while responding to all questioners and lecturers, individually.
I wonder if he is comforted by the assurance that the indignity was delivered as politely as possible.
Quote: gordonm888I am trying to be as polite as possible.
May 22nd, 2022 at 3:23:11 PM
permalink
Quote: OnceDearwhat level of subscription fee would you suggest to cover our remuneration?
We'll pay you what you're worth.
May 22nd, 2022 at 4:38:39 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: OnceDearwhat level of subscription fee would you suggest to cover our remuneration?
We'll pay you what you're worth.
link to original post
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 5:19:12 PM
permalink
Quote: DieterIt's not easy being green
There are circumstances where admins/mods behave more like referees than super-users.
Here, I've experienced what I consider to be bait & suspend tactics from mods.
The warning to Alan from gordon seems like more of the same.
I see you've adopted a "higher standards" criteria.
Why not change color when you eschew neutrality in the debates?
If you want to get in the game, then take your stripes off.
May 22nd, 2022 at 5:45:06 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: DieterIt's not easy being green
There are circumstances where admins/mods behave more like referees than super-users.
Here, I've experienced what I consider to be bait & suspend tactics from mods.
The warning to Alan from gordon seems like more of the same.
I see you've adopted a "higher standards" criteria.
Why not change color when you eschew neutrality in the debates?
If you want to get in the game, then take your stripes off.
link to original post
Smarten up
Nobody cares
You asked me once, was it worth it
Hell yea
Unlike you
I don't give a crap about this place
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
May 22nd, 2022 at 6:06:50 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyWhy not change color when you eschew neutrality in the debates?
If you want to get in the game, then take your stripes off.
link to original post
This is not a current feature of the software.
To the best of my understanding, most of the green team prefixes OFFICIAL posts with a statement that we are acting in an official capacity, and most of us usually separate things like suspension announcements from in-thread discussion (separate posts).
I don't take the stripes off; I usually have to put them on.
If you want to argue enthusiastically discuss things with me, go ahead. I'm usually game. If rude words come my way, it is unlikely that I'm going to nuke someone for calling me a muttonhead when I'm being a muttonhead.
YMMV, opinions are my own and should not be construed as official doctrine, may contain peanuts.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 6:19:22 PM
permalink
Quote: Dietermost of the green team prefixes OFFICIAL posts with a statement that we are acting in an official capacity
Of course you do...it's a form of intimidation.
First take the stripes off, then put yourself in the game...egalite.
May 22nd, 2022 at 6:23:41 PM
permalink
Quote: terapinedNobody cares
You takin to me?
I chased you off this site at least 6 months ago...this is what inspired your return?
DM me, I'll send a link to my online store...there you can buy a coachbelly poster for your camper.
May 22nd, 2022 at 6:44:21 PM
permalink
Damn, are you all jacked up on Mountain Dew today or something coach?
May 22nd, 2022 at 6:50:16 PM
permalink
Quote: mcallister3200Damn, are you all jacked up on Mountain Dew today or something coach?
My uncle Mort, he’s sawed off and short
He measures about four foot two
But he thinks he’s a giant when you give him a pint
Of that good old mountain dew
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:17:45 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: terapinedNobody cares
You takin to me?
I chased you off this site at least 6 months ago...this is what inspired your return?
DM me, I'll send a link to my online store...there you can buy a coachbelly poster for your camper.
link to original post
Again
Wise up
Nobody cares
Another wasted life addicted to this board
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:23:35 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: Dietermost of the green team prefixes OFFICIAL posts with a statement that we are acting in an official capacity
Of course you do...it's a form of intimidation.
First take the stripes off, then put yourself in the game...egalite.
link to original post
What would you suggest?
Have a duplicate account that I use to make foolish posts, knowing that I won't bust my alter-ego? That sounds like a recipe for abuse.
Prefix each mundane post with a disclaimer?
While the forum member making this post DOES have certain privileges pertaining to forum administration, he says he isn't going to get sore over a little disrespectful banter. Doesn't mean you should flagrantly violate the general standards for decorum, of course.
The stripes are off. A little roughhousing may be tolerated.
This strikes me as a bit ridiculous.
We're around. We read posts. We respond, sometimes casually, sometimes officially. Several of the moderators use the PREVIEW and CANCEL buttons at least as often as the POST button.
I'm sorry that the formatting style for post headings strikes you as trooping the colour with overflights from the Thunderbirds.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:26:57 PM
permalink
Quote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
That was your choice...not ours.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:29:55 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
link to original post
Do you have a suggestion as to how?
Are you suggesting situational recusal from administrative duty, or permanent resignation?
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:32:49 PM
permalink
Quote: DieterDo you have a suggestion as to how?
Just check yourself, you are the ref now...no longer a player.
It was your choice. It happens, others can deal with it....why can't you?
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:36:39 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: DieterDo you have a suggestion as to how?
Just check yourself, you are the ref now...no longer a player.
It was your choice...it happens, many others can deal with it.
link to original post
You offer a fascinating vision of the future, with many nuanced possibilities to consider.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:40:51 PM
permalink
Quote: DieterYou offer a fascinating vision of the future, with many nuanced possibilities to consider.
Have I answered all of your questions?
May 22nd, 2022 at 7:45:54 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: DieterYou offer a fascinating vision of the future, with many nuanced possibilities to consider.
Have I answered all of your questions?
link to original post
You've responded.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 22nd, 2022 at 8:38:23 PM
permalink
I don’t think that option would be affordable.Quote: coachbellyQuote: OnceDearwhat level of subscription fee would you suggest to cover our remuneration?
We'll pay you what you're worth.
link to original post
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
May 23rd, 2022 at 12:23:18 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
That was your choice...not ours.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
link to original post
_______________
in WWE wrestling the referees sometimes look away if a wrestler they don't like is pinning his opponent
and they sometimes mix it up with the wrestlers themselves and really get in their faces
it's a very high level of professionalism
great, great stuff - the WWE fans are really intelligent - I'm proud to be so knowledgeable about it_______________________________~:/
.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
May 23rd, 2022 at 12:48:35 PM
permalink
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: coachbellyQuote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
That was your choice...not ours.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
link to original post
_______________
in WWE wrestling the referees sometimes look away if a wrestler they don't like is pinning his opponent
and they sometimes mix it up with the wrestlers themselves and really get in their faces
it's a very high level of professionalism
great, great stuff - the WWE fans are really intelligent - I'm proud to be so knowledgeable about it_______________________________~:/
link to original post
I know nothing about WWE except that there always seems to be a folded up chair or some ladders under the ring and that these get damaged easily. Oh, that and the lady wrestlers are scary.
I never realised that Ref's were anything but totally unbiased professionals. . . A bit like us mods?
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 23rd, 2022 at 1:17:45 PM
permalink
Quote: OnceDear
I know nothing about WWE except that there always seems to be a folded up chair or some ladders under the ring and that these get damaged easily. Oh, that and the lady wrestlers are scary.
I never realised that Ref's were anything but totally unbiased professionals. . . A bit like us mods?
no, I wasn't saying that -
just a comical slice of Americana - to me anyway - I'm sure others think much less of it
.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
May 23rd, 2022 at 1:20:29 PM
permalink
Quote: OnceDearQuote: lilredroosterQuote: coachbellyQuote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
That was your choice...not ours.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
link to original post
_______________
in WWE wrestling the referees sometimes look away if a wrestler they don't like is pinning his opponent
and they sometimes mix it up with the wrestlers themselves and really get in their faces
it's a very high level of professionalism
great, great stuff - the WWE fans are really intelligent - I'm proud to be so knowledgeable about it_______________________________~:/
link to original post
I know nothing about WWE except that there always seems to be a folded up chair or some ladders under the ring and that these get damaged easily. Oh, that and the lady wrestlers are scary.
I never realised that Ref's were anything but totally unbiased professionals. . . A bit like us mods?
link to original post
I do not believe there is video of any mod dragging me from the ring and smashing me through a craps table available on Youtube.
May the cards fall in your favor.
May 23rd, 2022 at 1:25:40 PM
permalink
Quote: OnceDearQuote: lilredroosterQuote: coachbellyQuote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
That was your choice...not ours.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
link to original post
_______________
in WWE wrestling the referees sometimes look away if a wrestler they don't like is pinning his opponent
and they sometimes mix it up with the wrestlers themselves and really get in their faces
it's a very high level of professionalism
great, great stuff - the WWE fans are really intelligent - I'm proud to be so knowledgeable about it_______________________________~:/
link to original post
I know nothing about WWE except that there always seems to be a folded up chair or some ladders under the ring and that these get damaged easily. Oh, that and the lady wrestlers are scary.
I never realised that Ref's were anything but totally unbiased professionals. . . A bit like us mods?
link to original post
There is a man talking into a WWE refs ear, telling him exactly what to do and the ref relays the information to the wrestlers. They are, in effect, the Ring Master.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 23rd, 2022 at 1:27:33 PM
permalink
Unlike the NBA, WWE performers show up for every event.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 23rd, 2022 at 1:29:54 PM
permalink
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: OnceDear
I know nothing about WWE except that there always seems to be a folded up chair or some ladders under the ring and that these get damaged easily. Oh, that and the lady wrestlers are scary.
I never realised that Ref's were anything but totally unbiased professionals. . . A bit like us mods?
no, I wasn't saying that -
just a comical slice of Americana - to me anyway - I'm sure others think much less of it
.
link to original post
Well, I thank you anyway, because you led me to WWE on youtube. I now understand ladder matches and the newly discovered Bra and Panties matches.
$;o)
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
May 23rd, 2022 at 2:02:43 PM
permalink
Quote: terapinedWise up. Nobody cares. Another wasted life addicted to this board.
Please define "wasted."
On these boards we interact with others, relax, and even learn some new things.
Gee, it is sort of like traveling across the country in an RV, but it's free.
As that much overlooked early American genius Ben Franklin so succinctly put it:
"He that would live in peace & at ease, Must not speak all he knows or judge all he sees."
Brilliant.
"What, me worry?"
May 23rd, 2022 at 2:56:41 PM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: DieterWhat would you suggest?
Butt out...you're the referee, not a player.
That was your choice...not ours.
You want to play?...Take the stripes off.
link to original post
To a limited extent I agree with coachbelly. That is, my own personal standard is that I shouldn't be a central character involved in nasty forum arguments. In something like the two dice problem thread, in which I have gotten involved personally, I have bent over backwards to assure that all of my posts are polite in tone and explanatory in content - rather than frustrated and personal.
I do admit I have not been 100% successful at avoiding nasty arguments, but I am trying.
But there's no written rule about this or even a binding unwritten rule amongst the moderators. We took no vow to abstain from arguing, debating and participating in the life of the forum. If and when we do get involved in a contentious discussion, the participating moderator always recuses himself from any deliberations about potential suspensions for any other participant. And, we readily self-suspend when others point a finger at us, because we do try to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
So, I appeal to your better side and ask that you keep in mind that moderators are just volunteers, and that we are not monks in the Roman Catholic church. I guess we're more like wretches in "life's rich pageant."* And, we share a common aspiration to improve and do better.
* I admit that I am currently reading The Canterbury Tales.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
May 23rd, 2022 at 5:30:23 PM
permalink
Quote: gordonm888* I admit that I am currently reading The Canterbury Tales.
I recall in sixth grade we were reading "The Canterbury Tales" and I caused the teacher to break down in hysterics by mis-identifying "The Vernerable Bede" as "The Venereal Bede."
Oops.
"What, me worry?"
May 25th, 2022 at 5:29:27 AM
permalink
Quote: coachbellyQuote: terapinedNobody cares
You takin to me?
I chased you off this site at least 6 months ago...this is what inspired your return?
Thanks
This pretty much sums up your addiction to this site. Not adding content. Just looking to chase people off
A very sad addiction
You need help.
When somebody doesn't believe me, I could care less. Some get totally bent out of shape when not believed. Weird. I believe very little on all forums
May 25th, 2022 at 5:51:50 AM
permalink
Quote: terapinedQuote: coachbellyQuote: terapinedNobody cares
You takin to me?
I chased you off this site at least 6 months ago...this is what inspired your return?
Thanks
This pretty much sums up your addiction to this site. Not adding content. Just looking to chase people off
A very sad addiction
You need help.
link to original post
Isn't calling someone an addict an insult?
And then saying they need help for an addiction a further insult?
Isn't saying I chased you off nothing more than a figure of speech?
Would the meaning of a phrase change if the person using the phrase was on your side of an argument?
Is questioning bad? Does questioning become bad when it doesn't show your point of view?
In most States there are laws against arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable actions. Forum moderation unfortunately is sometimes arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable.
The most glaring of the arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable is when some participants get only a warning or a more severe suspension than others have received.
In a way, judges are arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable when they go beyond sentencing guidelines.
Just some thoughts. Carry on.
May 25th, 2022 at 6:08:10 AM
permalink
Quote: terapinedThanks
This pretty much sums up your addiction to this site. Not adding content. Just looking to chase people off
A very sad addiction
You need help.
link to original post
Personal insult. Three-day suspension.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
May 25th, 2022 at 6:17:57 AM
permalink
And the journey down the rabbit hole continues.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 25th, 2022 at 6:18:59 AM
permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson
Forum moderation unfortunately is sometimes arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable.
The most glaring of the arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable is when some participants get only a warning or a more severe suspension than others have received.
you may have a point but you're being pretty tough on the mods - it's not an easy job and it's unpaid
for example:
if John calls Jimmy a foolish person that's probably grounds for a suspension
but if John says Jimmy uses as foolish strategy that probably is not grounds for a suspension
but what if John says Jimmy's craps strategy is idiotic - or that only an idiot would use such a strategy________________?????
I dunno___________even though John didn't call Jimmy an idiot - it seems like he is implying that he is an idiot
not an easy call imo
.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
May 25th, 2022 at 6:23:34 AM
permalink
There isn't much need to call people names when simply quoting their own words proves the point.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 25th, 2022 at 6:25:47 AM
permalink
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: AlanMendelson
Forum moderation unfortunately is sometimes arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable.
The most glaring of the arbitrary, capricious and unreasonable is when some participants get only a warning or a more severe suspension than others have received.
you may have a point but you're being pretty tough on the mods - it's not an easy job and it's unpaid
for example:
if John calls Jimmy a foolish person that's probably grounds for a suspension
but if John says Jimmy uses as foolish strategy that probably is not grounds for a suspension
but what if John says Jimmy's craps strategy is idiotic - or that only an idiot would use such a strategy________________?????
I dunno___________even though John didn't call Jimmy an idiot - it seems like he is implying that he is an idiot
not an easy call imo
.
link to original post
If you called me an idiot for playing craps I would not be insulted.
If you called me an addict for playing craps I would be insulted, offended and I would want the moderators to take action.
The term "idiot" is loosely used. "Addict" is pointed and damaging and conveys a real problem that can affect someone's life, business and family.
May 25th, 2022 at 6:28:49 AM
permalink
Quote: billryanThere isn't much need to call people names when simply quoting their own words proves the point.
link to original post
Hi Bill.
May 25th, 2022 at 6:33:24 AM
permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson
If you called me an idiot for playing craps I would not be insulted.
well, that's very interesting Alan, but that's just you
I think many would be insulted if they were called an idiot because they play craps
so, obviously, the forum cannot tailor its rules just to suit you___________so, that's why there is so much subjectivity
.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
