Poll

54 votes (79.41%)
14 votes (20.58%)

68 members have voted

Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:03:59 AM permalink
The first rule in the forum rules is no personal insults. However, I fear I've created a atmosphere where it isn't clear what is considered an insult and some members may feel they are walking on thin ice all the time. I also have to arbitrate many such complaints, and I'm getting tired of what feels like over-moderating. Then again, that rule comes in handy for getting rid of types like JerryLogan.

The question for the forum is whether to keep or abolish the "no personal insults" rule.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Alan
Alan
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:12:28 AM permalink
I voted keep it...there are some personality traits that omit civility.
Gabes22
Gabes22
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:24:21 AM permalink
One thing that is very difficult to do on an online forum is to convey sarcasm. Sometimes what are intended as tongue-in-cheek sarcastic jabs get lumped in with personal insults. I don't think you have to abolish the rule per se, but given how intent is oftentimes difficult to interpret, I would only deal with personal insults if they cross certain discriminatory levels OR if you seem to see a specific poster being repeatedly accused of them.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
FarFromVegas
FarFromVegas
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:33:57 AM permalink
I appreciate the 'no insult' rule; however, it's hard to know what is meant as an insult and what is good-natured ribbing. I freely admit to being a dork and would not mind being called out for it. Actually, I'm relatively thick-skinned (as well as thick-headed) so I wouldn't notice I was being insulted unless it was very obvious with a bunch of Very Bad Words tossed in. I'm also annoying and obnoxious--and those would be considered insults if someone pointed it out here.

Actually, I find a bunch of members here to be annoying and obnoxious, but I just pretend I'm in a bar. It's to be expected when a group of guys get together, I guess.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:41:07 AM permalink
I agree with Gabes that online sarcasm is difficult to convey, but also believe it is on the author to ensure that tongue-in-cheek jabs are clear from what is typed.

A simple "jk" (just kidding) or "(sarcasm)" or "ha ha" (I am trying to be funny) helps everyone know that you are trying to be sarcastic and aren't trying to make someone feel personally attacked or humuliated. All but the bluntest of comments that are taken offense to may often be someone trying to be funny, but not at the expense of someone else.....i.e. trying to laugh with you not at you.

If you preview your post and think a "personal jab" maybe misinterpreted, either don't make the comment or write it in such a manner that it is clear you are being sarcastic.....that is your responsibility when trying to be sarcastic. Since the author is witty enough to be sarcastic, they ought to be witty enough to write their sarcasm in a manner that is clear.
MakingBook
MakingBook
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:47:26 AM permalink
Someone needs to invent a sarcasm font.
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
FarFromVegas
FarFromVegas
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:51:12 AM permalink
We use a combination of bold and italics on another forum, but then we have to explain THAT to newcomers. It's complicated.
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
rxwine
rxwine
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:53:36 AM permalink
If you can prove your insult was used on the Children's Show Sesame Street by a Muppet, you should only get a warning. (the morning children's show, not any of the spin-offs or movies).
The Hall of Unverified Claims is a vast place with many shelves.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:56:15 AM permalink
I have seen what happens when a Forum gets rid of that rule or tries to significantly loosen it, it's Rule #1 for a reason.

However, I think a personal insult should be more about the intent of the speaker than how the words are construed by the person to whom they were directed. If the intent is merely playful, as opposed to hostile, then I would say a member is toeing the line, but on the right side of it. I think that an individual can express unhappiness with the remark, and then that person should know not to be, "Playful," with that person anymore. It works that way in real life, you can say things to certain people but not others or they get offended. The mature thing is not to strike back, but simply say they were offended (as happened in this case) and then you don't say such things to the person anymore.

If you get, "Playful," with the person again when they clearly asked you not to, even if it is quite some time later, then you're looking at a suspension.

I would urge everyone to keep in mind, though, that intent is a very hard thing to judge. Per the suggestions that were made above, you would want to make it as clear as possible that the intent is playful. In this case, I thought that intent was playful as did the poster, but the person to whom the comment was directed would not take it that way. If a qualifier such as this were adopted, then the establishment of intent would lie with the Wizard or JB, whether or not you agree with their decision, so you want to make your intent explicitly clear, I would suggest.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
1BB
1BB
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July 16th, 2012 at 10:56:16 AM permalink
Keep it as long as everyone is treated equally.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi

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