My Resignation as Administrator

Greetings!

This post is to hereby notify everyone that my resignation as Administrator on these WoV Forums has been accepted by Wizard and shall take effect as soon as I can be changed from Green to some other color.

I want to thank everyone who has supported me in my role as Administrator since 2012 and I hope I will be looked upon as having done a decent job of it, overall.

My goal has always been to promote the discussion of gambling and help people, whether it be with math, debunking systems (my first thread was about a system!) or helping out with the Forum. I have and continue to want this forum to be the best one on the Internet for gambling information.

I will continue to write for our family of websites, but please know that gives me no authority whatsoever over these forums.

If anyone insults me or trolls me, please know I will request full protection under the Rules now that I am a regular Member. As an Administrator, it was always known to allow some leeway in things said to/about me to avoid the perception of bias action being undertaken on my behalf. As a regular Member, that leeway no longer applies and I will demand full protection under the Rules as appropriate. In other words, I never wanted there to be a perception of, "If you talk about Mission, you'll get banned because he is an Administrator," so I have repeatedly emphasized that I would never ban someone for something said about me or to me and encouraged other Admins to do the same.

Why I am Resigning

I recently made a decision to delete a thread, largely because it contained personal information, that Wizard agreed with.

Unfortunately, my decision, that I would have made for literally anyone, was seen as, "Protecting," the person in question because I have worked with him in the past, personally.

Therefore, I have made the decision, due to the accusations of bias and calls for me to resign, that there are some people who are either unlikely to believe, or will never believe, that I am capable of objective and unbiased Administration of this forum.

I do not want to resign as an Administrator, but my goal has always been to act in the best interest of the forum, and I cannot go against that goal now. If there are people who will not believe that I am impartial, and they have arguably reasonable causes for that belief, (I guess) then it is best for the continuation and success of these forums that I resign from any position of authority over other Members.

Business Dealings

I dealt with WoN on a personal level and on personal business that never involved any Member of this Forum. We did have lunch with DarkOz, on one occasion, but I thought that was just having lunch. I did not believe that my presence at lunch either implicitly or explicitly was a, "Vouching," of any kind for WoN. I thought we were just three guys and my fiance' all having lunch as friends.

As Darkoz has publicly stated, he has never seen or spoken to me outside of this Forum since.

Accusations

Any accusations I have heard about WoN have been third-hand, which means that they have been told to me by a person, or persons, who were not personally harmed by the subject matter of those accusations.

I was told by someone to, "Watch my ass," if I were to have dealings with him, but I, "Watch my ass," with anyone to the extent of what I understand that term means.

There is some other stuff, and I could defend myself much better, but I would be violating confidences and privacy in order to do so.

I have not vouched for WoN, nor have I ever volunteered any personal information from anyone on this forum to him. Those accusations are not only baseless, but completely absurd and insulting. Anyone who has made an accusation along those lines will never be my friend.

There is only ONE MEMBER here that I have ever explicitly vouched for, and would do so again, if asked.

Conclusion

Fortunately, that's what you guys are now, and many of you always were. I consider many of you my friends. Some in the online sense and some otherwise. I no longer have any authority as an Administrator over anyone here, and if you want to know the truth, that doesn't bother me at all.

Finally, after all that has happened, I apologize for working with WoN, but I reiterate that I have no direct or personal knowledge of any of the accusations on that website or accusations of any other kind. "Direct or Personal," means things I have witnessed or been involved in. I have only ever worked for him on a personal level and not in conjunction with anyone on this Forum.

That's basically all I have to say, except one last thing:

Watch your ass and watch who you work with. There may be consequences that you might not know will happen, and those consequences do not necessarily have to be monetary. I want to reiterate that WoN and I are all square, but if someone told me that I would be resigning as an Admin here as an indirect result of having worked with him (or anyone else) then I never would have done it.

Sometimes actions have repercussions that we do not anticipate, but must take responsibility for. I am taking responsibility for my working with WoN. If you believe that you were scammed by him, or anyone else, then that is your responsibility. You cannot be scammed for money that you do not hand to someone or free play that you do not give someone control over. At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions and the consequences thereof.

The consequence of my working with WoN is that my being an Admin is no longer the best thing for this Forum. I'm sorry if I let any of you down. My job as an Admin is to do the best thing for the Forum, and right now, that is to resign.

Quote: Mission146

Greetings!

This post is to hereby notify everyone that my resignation as Administrator on these WoV Forums has been accepted by Wizard and shall take effect as soon as I can be changed from Green to some other color.

I want to thank everyone who has supported me in my role as Administrator since 2012 and I hope I will be looked upon as having done a decent job of it, overall.

My goal has always been to promote the discussion of gambling and help people, whether it be with math, debunking systems (my first thread was about a system!) or helping out with the Forum. I have and continue to want this forum to be the best one on the Internet for gambling information.

I will continue to write for our family of websites, but please know that gives me no authority whatsoever over these forums.

If anyone insults me or trolls me, please know I will request full protection under the Rules now that I am a regular Member. As an Administrator, it was always known to allow some leeway in things said to/about me to avoid the perception of bias action being undertaken on my behalf. As a regular Member, that leeway no longer applies and I will demand full protection under the Rules as appropriate. In other words, I never wanted there to be a perception of, "If you talk about Mission, you'll get banned because he is an Administrator," so I have repeatedly emphasized that I would never ban someone for something said about me or to me and encouraged other Admins to do the same.

Why I am Resigning

I recently made a decision to delete a thread, largely because it contained personal information, that Wizard agreed with.

Unfortunately, my decision, that I would have made for literally anyone, was seen as, "Protecting," the person in question because I have worked with him in the past, personally.

Therefore, I have made the decision, due to the accusations of bias and calls for me to resign, that there are some people who are either unlikely to believe, or will never believe, that I am capable of objective and unbiased Administration of this forum.

I do not want to resign as an Administrator, but my goal has always been to act in the best interest of the forum, and I cannot go against that goal now. If there are people who will not believe that I am impartial, and they have arguably reasonable causes for that belief, (I guess) then it is best for the continuation and success of these forums that I resign from any position of authority over other Members.

Business Dealings

I dealt with WoN on a personal level and on personal business that never involved any Member of this Forum. We did have lunch with DarkOz, on one occasion, but I thought that was just having lunch. I did not believe that my presence at lunch either implicitly or explicitly was a, "Vouching," of any kind for WoN. I thought we were just three guys and my fiance' all having lunch as friends.

As Darkoz has publicly stated, he has never seen or spoken to me outside of this Forum since.

Accusations

Any accusations I have heard about WoN have been third-hand, which means that they have been told to me by a person, or persons, who were not personally harmed by the subject matter of those accusations.

I was told by someone to, "Watch my ass," if I were to have dealings with him, but I, "Watch my ass," with anyone to the extent of what I understand that term means.

There is some other stuff, and I could defend myself much better, but I would be violating confidences and privacy in order to do so.

I have not vouched for WoN, nor have I ever volunteered any personal information from anyone on this forum to him. Those accusations are not only baseless, but completely absurd and insulting. Anyone who has made an accusation along those lines will never be my friend.

There is only ONE MEMBER here that I have ever explicitly vouched for, and would do so again, if asked.

Conclusion

Fortunately, that's what you guys are now, and many of you always were. I consider many of you my friends. Some in the online sense and some otherwise. I no longer have any authority as an Administrator over anyone here, and if you want to know the truth, that doesn't bother me at all.

Finally, after all that has happened, I apologize for working with WoN, but I reiterate that I have no direct or personal knowledge of any of the accusations on that website or accusations of any other kind. "Direct or Personal," means things I have witnessed or been involved in. I have only ever worked for him on a personal level and not in conjunction with anyone on this Forum.

That's basically all I have to say, except one last thing:

Watch your ass and watch who you work with. There may be consequences that you might not know will happen, and those consequences do not necessarily have to be monetary. I want to reiterate that WoN and I are all square, but if someone told me that I would be resigning as an Admin here as an indirect result of having worked with him (or anyone else) then I never would have done it.

Sometimes actions have repercussions that we do not anticipate, but must take responsibility for. I am taking responsibility for my working with WoN. If you believe that you were scammed by him, or anyone else, then that is your responsibility. You cannot be scammed for money that you do not hand to someone or free play that you do not give someone control over. At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions and the consequences thereof.

The consequence of my working with WoN is that my being an Admin is no longer the best thing for this Forum. I'm sorry if I let any of you down. My job as an Admin is to do the best thing for the Forum, and right now, that is to resign.

Please don't do it! Please don't resign as an Admin! Reverse the decision while Wizard is presumably asleep! You are a good guy and even Babs begged you not to resign! Don't let the accusations that started off as a mini molehill and ended up turning into Mount Everest cause you to resign as an Admin! The main guy who unfairly accused you of ridiculous crap is temporarily banned himself! That's a sign you need to remain an Admin!

Quote: Nathan

Please don't do it! Please don't resign as an Admin! Reverse the decision while Wizard is presumably asleep! You are a good guy and even Babs begged you not to resign! Don't let the accusations that started off as a mini molehill and ended up turning into Mount Everest cause you to resign as an Admin! The main guy who unfairly accused you of ridiculous crap is temporarily banned himself! That's a sign you need to remain an Admin!

Nathan,

Thank you for your support. My impartiality and objectiveness as an Administrator of this Forum has been called into question, perhaps with reasonable causes, and as a result, there are people who won't believe that I behave impartially.

I would rather not be an Administrator at all than an Administrator that some people who are Members in good standing do not trust. My decision is not for the good of me or what I would like, but rather for the good of the site.

I have spoken with Wizard directly and my resignation has already been accepted.

Greetings from Zurich. Please forgive my absence through this poop storm. I'll be back home soon.

Let me start by saying that I visited the site that the busted post drew attention to. It contained personal information of a former member, including his full name, date of birth, pictures, known addresses, and a picture I assume is or was of his wife.

As mission stated, we put a high priority on protecting personal information here. Providing a link to the site I felt was in effect posting of personal information. That WoN resigned does not lift his protection. I oppose posting of private information of anyone, including the likes of Larry Nasser.

So, I supported missions decision in the post deletion. I fully believe he would have done the same to protect anybody's privacy. This agreement was conveyed via text.

I accept with regrets mission's resignation. I would like to thank him for his many years of loyal service to the forum. In his many actions as an administration, I can't think of a single decision I had a major disagreement with. It will be very difficult to find anyone as dependable and hard working as he was. I do welcome his continued participation and will do my best to ensure his forum rights are protected.

We have lost a good man over this witch hunt. I do hope those who attacked him ruthlessly are satisfied and we can move on.

Sorry to hear this, perhaps I should have spoken up before this.

Being willing to resign as being the best thing speaks to your character as well.

Quote: Mission146

Nathan,

Thank you for your support. My impartiality and objectiveness as an Administrator of this Forum has been called into question, perhaps with reasonable causes, and as a result, there are people who won't believe that I behave impartially.

I would rather not be an Administrator at all than an Administrator that some people who are Members in good standing do not trust. My decision is not for the good of me or what I would like, but rather for the good of the site.

I have spoken with Wizard directly and my resignation has already been accepted.

You are welcome. I can't believe a very quickly deleted thread indirectly was the catalyst for your resignation as an Admin. What a sad day this is. :(

Quote: Nathan

You are welcome. I can't believe a very quickly deleted thread indirectly was the catalyst for your resignation as an Admin. What a sad day this is. :(

It's not the thread. Anything that has ever happened or will happen to me is both my fault and responsibility at the end of the day.

For what it is worth, I'm happy that I will never have to ban you for anything again. You seem like a nice person.

Quote: odiousgambit

Sorry to hear this, perhaps I should have spoken up before this.

Being willing to resign as being the best thing speaks to your character as well.

Thank you for your statement. My character has probably been irreparably impugned in the eyes of many. Such is life. Were I perfect, I would not be human, because humans are imperfect.

Quote: Mission146

It's not the thread. Anything that has ever happened or will happen to me is both my fault and responsibility at the end of the day.

For what it is worth, I'm happy that I will never have to ban you for anything again. You seem like a nice person.

Thanks for the compliment. I will miss you as an Admin. You were a very good Admin. :)

Quote: Wizard

Greetings from Zurich. Please forgive my absence through this poop storm. I'll be back home soon.

I look forward to it! Safe travels!

Quote:

As mission stated, we put a high priority on protecting personal information here. Providing a link to the site I felt was in effect posting of personal information. That WoN resigned does not lift his protection. I oppose posting of private information of anyone, including the likes of Larry Nasser.

So, I supported missions decision in the post deletion. I fully believe he would have done the same to protect anybody's privacy. This agreement was conveyed via text.

While there are many who would not know of your fervent stance as relates the protection of private information, as I certainly do, I acted in accordance to my own beliefs and how I thought you would manage the forum yourself. Thank you for openly supporting my position on the thread in question.

Quote:

I accept with regrets mission's resignation. I would like to thank him for his many years of loyal service to the forum. In his many actions as an administration, I can't think of a single decision I had a major disagreement with. It will be very difficult to find anyone as dependable and hard working as he was. I do welcome his continued participation and will do my best to ensure his forum rights are protected.

We have lost a good man over this witch hunt. I do hope those who attacked him ruthlessly are satisfied and we can move on.

I resign with regret and I thank you for allowing me to serve this Forum for these many years. It has been a pleasure acting as an Administrator under your management, but more importantly, it has been a pleasure being and continuing to be your friend.

I will continue to write for our family of websites and act in the best interests of this Forum in my capacity as a regular Member. I will continue to answer questions for people, when I am available and want to make very clear (even though you know) that my loyalty to you and this Forum has not changed. I would never have pursued learning more and more about gambling were it not for WizardofOdds, and while I may not know more than some others, I can speak with authority on a great many subjects. I'm sure you would agree that gambling is a terrific metaphor for all of life.

Thank you for everything, Wizard. I will always be around here. To you and everyone, as you say, "May the odds forever be in your favor."

Although I'm a relatively quiet member, I am here daily and read through most of these posts. I'm not sure you should have resigned over this but i respect and understand your decision to do so. As far as I could tell you always seemed to do a pretty good job as moderator and I hope you continue to write your stories for the website, as I enjoy reading them.

I'm sorry that the Tempest in a Teapot has had such an undesirable effect. I too am extremely appreciative of your contributions and I am also in agreement with your views about posting personal information. However, I do understand that once you develop a sour taste in your mouth due to accusations it takes the edge off your reward for your efforts as a Green Inker. So all I can do is wish you enjoyment of being free of the unsung burdens of that Green Ink.

Quote: FleaStiff

I'm sorry that the Tempest in a Teapot has had such an undesirable effect. I too am extremely appreciative of your contributions and I am also in agreement with your views about posting personal information. However, I do understand that once you develop a sour taste in your mouth due to accusations it takes the edge off your reward for your efforts as a Green Inker. So all I can do is wish you enjoyment of being free of the unsung burdens of that Green Ink.

Thank you, and you have always been one of the most vocal in support of my writings for the site! Further, I have always enjoyed talking to you otherwise.

The problem that we have here is that acting in accordance to the Rules is being perceived as bias in favor of someone, but with no similar situations coming up in the past; there is no strict proof that I would behave the same way in a similar situation.

Anyway, I will enjoy the freedom! I'm about 450% more sarcastic and condescending than I let show as an Admin, so let's see how that goes. If anyone knows how to keep that sort of thing within the Forum Rules, it's me.

(Sorta Kidding, I Guess)

Quote: ck1313

Although I'm a relatively quiet member, I am here daily and read through most of these posts. I'm not sure you should have resigned over this but i respect and understand your decision to do so. As far as I could tell you always seemed to do a pretty good job as moderator and I hope you continue to write your stories for the website, as I enjoy reading them.

Let It Ride, really, in your profile? Meet me in Vegas!

If I am going to be playing tables at -EV, PGP, LiR and Craps, in that order, are my favorite games!

Thank you for your understanding and support. I will be continuing to write for the site, and I hope you continue to enjoy reading!

I am very sorry you are leaving your post and I wish you the best.

I didn't always agree with you but I DEFINITELY FEEL YOU WERE THE MOST KNOWLDEGEABLE AND WILLING TO SHARE EXPERT I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED ON ANY FORUM

I really hope you will continue to stay a member and will contribute.

I don't know the details of this incident or what it was about and I don't really care.

Most of the hissy fits on this and other forums stem from people who feel free to and enjoy attacking others while cowering behind a computer and a phony name.

Some people who post on forums which are privately owned and/or operated seem to believe they have "rights" such as the Bill of the Rights. They quote the rules as if to imply that the owner/operator could not change his rules at any time. The administrators may choose to administrate the forum in a way that implies that posters have rights but they do not have any obligation to offer or maintain rules or "rights." What a pathetic joke these people who claim "rights" are. Let them open their own forums if they are so brilliant as to how they should be run.

Again, good luck to you and I really hope you will contribute greatly and often.

This is a tragedy for everyone, it absolutely sucks for Mission. I can say with great confidence, Mission never willing or knowingly vouched for or lead anyone to anything bad nor was he involved with anything nefarious like people have been suggesting.

He has willingly taken the fall for this in order to shield others from any fallout.

Makes me sick!!!

Hopefully, there will be a silver lining in this for you Mission. Enjoy your non Administration freedom and pursue some other worthwhile tasks.

Quote: Mission146

Thank you for your statement. My character has probably been irreparably impugned in the eyes of many. Such is life. Were I perfect, I would not be human, because humans are imperfect.

Actually, I thought you were perfect. I don't even know what you guys are talking about. But you obviously don't want to resign, and others say they don't want you to resign, so don't resign. I've certainly enjoyed your posts and help with stuff. Seems like a slam dunk to not resign. duh :-)

You're interesting. I vote for not resigning.

how dare you make a decision like this without consulting with members here. This should be up to a vote. Mods should only be allowed to leave if they are impeached.

Quote: bobbartop

Actually, I thought you were perfect. I don't even know what you guys are talking about. But you obviously don't want to resign, and others say they don't want you to resign, so don't resign. I've certainly enjoyed your posts and help with stuff. Seems like a slam dunk to not resign. duh :-)

You're interesting. I vote for not resigning.

Those were basically my sentiments too. The fact that the main poster who unfairly accused, unfairly attacked and unfairly harrassed Mission is temporarily banned himself is very interesting in a good way. I wish Mission wouldn't resign myself too. This is horrible. I hope those people who were unfairly harassing, unfairly accusing and unfairly attacking Mission feel like complete and utter trash for causing a good man like Mission to resign. I hope they look at themselves as shameful abominations. Especially the man one who is temporarily banned now.

I hope you will return someday as the one or two people that said they thought you should resign do not represent me or not even a small minority of the members.

In real life, people love to pile on others without knowing the facts. In the internet world it's even worse and much easier to do from behind a computer screen.

In my opinion your decision and the Wizards acceptance was done too hastily without taking a step back and letting some dust settle that a very few kicked up.


ZCore13

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why a known scamster was allowed to post under a different id after being banned.
Had this been addressed up front, none of this might have been necessary.
Even now, the subject isn't being discussed.
Thank you for doing a thankless job but it's time to move on.

Quote: billryan

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why a known scamster was allowed to post under a different id after being banned.
Had this been addressed up front, none of this might have been necessary.
Even now, the subject isn't being discussed.
Thank you for doing a thankless job but it's time to move on.

This really should be asked in the "Strictly AP/Wizard Of Nothing," thread, not in what is essentially Mission's heartfelt Swan Song thread to us as regular members, banned members, and to other Admins.

Many good opinions and comments here so I’ll throw mine in on the decision as well since I did call for Mission to consider it and think he made the right call. I also agree that it is a loss to the forum as he was a fair mod but sometimes that isn’t enough. Many people make bad decisions from time to time and unfortunately it overshadows all the good they did. Mission isn’t the first this has happened to and he won’t be the last in the world. And like most others, he will be fine.

But I also feel he isn’t alone in this boat on the issue at hand, which is allowing a banned member for a valid reason, not paying a wager, to return under socks. To me this is the reason Mission had to resign and I NEVER accused him of being involved in the scammers scams. I believe he come off poorly in his initial comments but that shouldn’t have been a factor in the decision. Who knew what and when is the issue here and I don’t believe we ever got that answer. That is the issue that risked the potential for good members to be potentially scammed by a member who to the unknowing was a good member and even advertised “Now hiring”. Certainly not the original vision the Wizard had for this site.

We had members warning people about this and even posting about it though vague terms such as “Strickly an AP move” and such. And we are to believe that the good work that has been done here to out socks by banning them when they come back didn’t see this?

When I first joined here Mission was one of the first to welcome me and helped me with many questions I had. I learned a lot from him and from others. Mission was also one of the first I met in person and again, he never asked for anything. I had a great time with him, learning some basic plays and considered him a friend. While we never met in person again, I have always and do still considered him a friend and reputable person. If he feels differently about me today over this turn of events, it is my loss.

Once Mission knew WoN was the same person as his 2 previous incarnations here, his responsibility was to ban him. There may be debate about when, but it is obvious that he did at some point and I don’t think there is any disagreement on that.

As for another mod saying about “Personal Responsibility”, of course everyone is responsible for their decisions. Some may have ignored the warning signs and got screwed by this former member. But knowing who he was, what he has been accused of and allowing him to post here and advertise he was hiring shows complicity on the sites part. On that I can’t see how their is any argument.

This community is filled with decent people and Mission is one of them. It is that way for a reason when other sites have come and go. Basic decency in the treatment of other members is one of the major reasons. We may have political and other disagreements that are wide, but I know the members here help, offer help and care about one another without working angles. This situation went against that and we still don’t know why it was allowed to happen.

Mission:

Your resignation goes on and on about upholding forum rules and how that was your main objective and that’s what you feel you did

Yet there’s no explanation for the most blantant error made by yourself and the other admins. Allowing a sock puppet account of a banned member to remain active is bad enough, allowing it to happen and keep happening even after you were warned by 3rd parties that the person is a scam artist fraudster is even worse.

Yes, people are responsible for their own business dealings and who they choose to work with and give money to. But if you did your job correctly and adhered to the rules of the forum , this guy would’ve never been enabled to scam people the way he did.

In my opinion , that poor judgement is why you were asked to resign and I found it interestedinh that everything but an explanation for that was included in your speech

Once again, the couple of posts above this one really should be in the Strictly AP/ Wizard Of Nothing thread, not this thread which is Mission's heartfelt swan song to us and other Admins. Start a brand new thread asking about it if you want to and the Admins allowa thread just for it. Send PMs asking about it to Admins and Mission himself if you want to. Stop murking up Mission's heartfelt Resignition thread with that matter. It is a sad day in WOV when I am a voice of reason. ;) :/

Mission,

You have been a cool cat and have acted respectfully and professionally from my encounters with you. I just tried to PM you but it didnt go through. Are you not receiving PMs or is the site prohibiting it.?

Quote: WatchMeWin

Mission,

You have been a cool cat and have acted respectfully and professionally from my encounters with you. I just tried to PM you but it didnt go through. Are you not receiving PMs or is the site prohibiting it.?

I don’t know what the issue could be, I just got a PM ten minutes ago from someone else.

Quote: Wizard

Greetings from Zurich. Please forgive my absence through this poop storm. I'll be back home soon.

Let me start by saying that I visited the site that the busted post drew attention to. It contained personal information of a former member, including his full name, date of birth, pictures, known addresses, and a picture I assume is or was of his wife.

As mission stated, we put a high priority on protecting personal information here. Providing a link to the site I felt was in effect posting of personal information. That WoN resigned does not lift his protection. I oppose posting of private information of anyone, including the likes of Larry Nasser.

So, I supported missions decision in the post deletion. I fully believe he would have done the same to protect anybody's privacy. This agreement was conveyed via text.

I accept with regrets mission's resignation. I would like to thank him for his many years of loyal service to the forum. In his many actions as an administration, I can't think of a single decision I had a major disagreement with. It will be very difficult to find anyone as dependable and hard working as he was. I do welcome his continued participation and will do my best to ensure his forum rights are protected.

We have lost a good man over this witch hunt. I do hope those who attacked him ruthlessly are satisfied and we can move on.

Dear Mission and Wizard,

I feel like you are making a huge mistake. First and foremost, this website is owned by a private organization. Its overseer, you, Michael, has crafted forum rules that are compatible with US law. You yourself have put in rules that regulate free speech, including rules around language, insults, spamming, etc. As a result, it is your rules that apply here. You have also given the Admins to do what they should do: administer the forum.

The fact that people have attempted to skirt rules by creating bogus accounts is unavoidable. It is easy to mask IPs with a VPN and come on here as anyone and depict multiple and alternate personas that may be difficult to detect. It is not anyone's legal duty to remove these people anyway; only a forum "rule" that states that they would be removed, if discovered and known. The fact is that these discoveries may be difficult to detect, and even if detected, it is up to the forum administrators to make its determinations, not the forum members themselves.

People on this forum may not like BBB's "bias", Face's opinions, the Wizard's enforcement of the rules, or Mission's contributions and application of the rules. And frankly, Mike and the gang have allowed a forum to complain about the admin's actions, either individually, or as a whole, and the admins have had to come on here and defend their actions when frankly, no explanation or defense is required.

In my opinion, Mike, you made a mistake in allowing this criticism to happen and to have it result in essentially bullying one of your admins from this Forum. Now, Mission is responsible for his own resignation and it was his decision to resign. But really, these admins should be protecting your brand, Mike, and what you stand for. If members are complaining about Mission's behavior and you feel that it is compatible with what your philosophy and the site rules are, then Mike, you (and all other admins) should vehemently defend Mission for his actions and allow him to continue as a Mod, with your full and complete support.

Mike, I've always said that it's your site with your rules. You have employed administrators to moderate the site based on your rules and your governing philosophy. I implore you to not let it get beyond your control by letting a few people control this forum.

Mission, it really doesn't matter whether people think you had a conflict of interest. This is not the Whitehouse or any government agency. It was your forum to moderate, and if you had personal interests or conflicts of interests, it doesn't matter. Mike did not think that you should have resigned with your full disclosure. You shouldn't have resigned. All it shows is that a few people have the power to take a perceived matter and bully someone into submission.

The world should not be like this.

Quote: billryan

I'm still waiting for an explanation of why a known scamster was allowed to post under a different id after being banned.
Had this been addressed up front, none of this might have been necessary.
Even now, the subject isn't being discussed.
Thank you for doing a thankless job but it's time to move on.

Is it your forum? Do you pay fees? Do you understand the effort it takes to discover someone using a different ID? Do you understand that the moderators go through due process to ensure that the "scamster" is in fact a scamster and not just somebody else?

This is Mike's forum. Mike's rules. And if an admin does a wrong or doesn't do their job on time, that's between Mike and the admin.

Quote: boymimbo

Is it your forum? Do you pay fees? Do you understand the effort it takes to discover someone using a different ID? Do you understand that the moderators go through due process to ensure that the "scamster" is in fact a scamster and not just somebody else?

This is Mike's forum. Mike's rules. And if an admin does a wrong or doesn't do their job on time, that's between Mike and the admin.

I would seriously hate to live in your world...

Quote: Homelessnyc

I would seriously hate to live in your world...

You don't have to. You don't have to live in this one either.

I would never embark on an endeavor like keeping or moderating a forum because I could not deal with people's personalities or their beliefs that somehow their thoughts mattered.

Really quick, I’ll be back soon.

It’s not that Wizard and others don’t want to defend me in the context of Administration, or otherwise. They cannot defend me because I have specifically asked them not to.

Anarchists win.

Thanks Mission I wish you luck.

Quote: boymimbo

I would never embark on an endeavor like keeping or moderating a forum because I could not deal with people's personalities or their beliefs that somehow their thoughts mattered.

Yea we see that from your post.

We feel the same way about you.

I wonder who will take his place, and what type of selection process will be involved?

Quote: Homelessnyc

Yea we see that from your post.

We feel the same way about you.

Exactly.

Banned members sneaking back on isn't an indication of a failure by the moderators.
Allowing a banned member back because one has a business relationship with them stinks to high heaven.
I can't help notice that this issue is not being addressed.

Quote: billryan

Banned members sneaking back on isn't an indication of a failure by the moderators.
Allowing a banned member back because one has a business relationship with them stinks to high heaven.
I can't help notice that this issue is not being addressed.

isnt that the whole reason why there were people asking for him to resign?

Quote: billryan

Banned members sneaking back on isn't an indication of a failure by the moderators.
Allowing a banned member back because one has a business relationship with them stinks to high heaven.
I can't help notice that this issue is not being addressed.

I didn't allow him here because we had a business relationship. The WoN account was created well before he and I ever did any business together.

There, addressed.

Quote: lilredrooster

I am very sorry you are leaving your post and I wish you the best.

Thanks! I really don't anticipate being here much less than I am now. It'll probably be fun that I will be able to be kind of an @$$ when I feel like it. I'm not talking Personal Insult, just my one-two punch of sarcasm and condescension if I see something I think is stupid.

Quote:

I didn't always agree with you but I DEFINITELY FEEL YOU WERE THE MOST KNOWLDEGEABLE AND WILLING TO SHARE EXPERT I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED ON ANY FORUM

Thank you for the high praise! Please note that I don't consider myself an, "Expert," on anything. The way I would put it is, "I can speak with authority on some matters."

Quote:

I really hope you will continue to stay a member and will contribute.

Your wish is my command.

Quote: AxelWolf

This is a tragedy for everyone, it absolutely sucks for Mission. I can say with great confidence, Mission never willing or knowingly vouched for or lead anyone to anything bad nor was he involved with anything nefarious like people have been suggesting.

He has willingly taken the fall for this in order to shield others from any fallout.

Makes me sick!!!

Thanks for the support!

Quote:

Enjoy your non Administration freedom and pursue some other worthwhile tasks.

I plan to!

EDIT: I have just now read the relevant thread. I still think Mission is a person with integrity, but I am disturbed by the forum-wide issue that the moderators did not permanently ban WoN immediately when they realized that he had a duplicate account (per the rules), because they certainly knew he was a con-artist. This issue is more about the Wizard and all the moderators collectively and not about poor embattled Mission, but I am deleting the message below.

Quote: Mission146

I didn't allow him here because we had a business relationship. The WoN account was created well before he and I ever did any business together.

There, addressed.

So you entered into business with a guy you knew was banned for not paying off a bet, and was a known scammer?
You keep digging the hole deeper.

Lots to talk. Multiple people quoted in the post below, otherwise I'm going to end up making 2,398 consecutive posts in this thread.

IN ORDER:

Bobbartop
GWAE
Zcore13
Boz
Michael99000
BoyMimbo

Quote: bobbartop

Actually, I thought you were perfect. I don't even know what you guys are talking about. But you obviously don't want to resign, and others say they don't want you to resign, so don't resign. I've certainly enjoyed your posts and help with stuff. Seems like a slam dunk to not resign. duh :-)

You're interesting. I vote for not resigning.

The funny thing about it is that I am actually, in fact, perfect. The problem is that everyone else's definition of, "Perfect," is clearly wrong.

I do want to resign for the good of the forum. Given that I have worked with WoN my impartiality regarding his being on the site as WoN as well as my deletion of that thread has been called into question by multiple people. If I cannot be viewed as an impartial Administrator, then I should not be an Administrator.

Unfortunately, many of the false and more egregious implicit or explicit inquiries or accusations made against me are such that people can argue that I am not impartial if I ever need to take Admin actions against any of the people who made those accusations.

In other words, while the majority of people here would (likely) vote to see me remain as an Admin, were I to put it to a vote, I believe that there are enough people where my impartiality and objectiveness can be called into question to warrant resignation.

Quote: GWAE

how dare you make a decision like this without consulting with members here. This should be up to a vote. Mods should only be allowed to leave if they are impeached.

Good one! It would be silly for me to, "Put it to a vote," knowing that the side that says keep me as an Admin would almost certainly prevail, though.

Quote: Zcore13

I hope you will return someday as the one or two people that said they thought you should resign do not represent me or not even a small minority of the members.

Thank you! There are enough people questioning my objectiveness that I feel it is best to resign.

Quote: Boz

When I first joined here Mission was one of the first to welcome me and helped me with many questions I had. I learned a lot from him and from others. Mission was also one of the first I met in person and again, he never asked for anything. I had a great time with him, learning some basic plays and considered him a friend. While we never met in person again, I have always and do still considered him a friend and reputable person. If he feels differently about me today over this turn of events, it is my loss.

We're good. I clearly agree enough with some of your statements that I believe it is appropriate to resign.

Quote: michael99000

Mission:

Your resignation goes on and on about upholding forum rules and how that was your main objective and that’s what you feel you did

Yet there’s no explanation for the most blantant error made by yourself and the other admins. Allowing a sock puppet account of a banned member to remain active is bad enough, allowing it to happen and keep happening even after you were warned by 3rd parties that the person is a scam artist fraudster is even worse.

If people want to blame me exclusively for WoN being allowed to post here under that handle, that's fine. It was 100% my fault, if that makes you feel better.

I guess I could say, "I could have acted unilaterally to Nuke him and I did not," would be a true statement.

Quote: boymimbo

In my opinion, Mike, you made a mistake in allowing this criticism to happen and to have it result in essentially bullying one of your admins from this Forum.

Please do not implicate the Wizard in making a mistake. I asked both Wizard and BBB not to take any action in defense of me personally. The only thing I asked Wizard to do was state that he agreed with my decision under Rule #4 and only if he did so agree.

Quote: billryan

So you entered into business with a guy you knew was banned for not paying off a bet, and was a known scammer?
You keep digging the hole deeper.

Your statement is not accurate. As with many other people, you are trying to hold me to having today’s knowledge in the context of two years ago.

This is now about Mission and pixels.

Quote: Mission146

Your statement is not accurate. As with many other people, you are trying to hold me to having today’s knowledge in the context of two years ago.

No, I am not. Nor are most other people.

Quote: billryan

No, I am not. Nor are most other people.

Okay, please enlighten me as to what scams I had personal knowledge of when I first entered into dealings with him.

Lots of general statements, no specifics.

Besides, even if what you are saying was completely factual (and it’s not) who I do personal business with is my affair, not yours. Secondly, I have already stated that my business with him had exactly nothing with him being allowed to remain as WoN.

For all you know, him remaining as WoN here had nothing to do with me at all in terms of decision-making. I take responsibility to the extent that I could have unilaterally banned him and did not do that.

Why was he allowed to stay? I'm not here that long but I see lots of people banned for the same thing.
Why was he allowed to offer employment to people?