Three Card Poker Clone

Are there any substantial legal obstacles stopping me (or anyone else) from creating their own clone of Three Card Poker with a different name and logo?

For fun I asked ChatGPT for some suggestions of what a new Three Card Poker game could be named; my favorites are Triad Hold, Third Street Showdown, and Trigon Flush :D

Quote: harris

Are there any substantial legal obstacles stopping me (or anyone else) from creating their own clone of Three Card Poker with a different name and logo?

For fun I asked ChatGPT for some suggestions of what a new Three Card Poker game could be named; my favorites are Triad Hold, Third Street Showdown, and Trigon Flush :D
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It is public domain now as far as what patent protection "it may have had". A lot of other companies have made their own take on it, 3 Card Prime by Galaxy for example (although they changed the ante bonus up a little bit). I think some other big distributors probably have their own version of it as well. It still has trademark protection, but if you change the name to be distinct enough you are probably good.

An early variant that I don’t think exists anymore was called Tres card stud

A few years ago I wrote about the new / copy version of All Tall Small.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/36549-clone-of-galaxys-all-tall-small-bonus-craps-bet/#post827897

The original is by Galaxy Gaming and the copy is by Scientific (formerly ShuffleMaster, now Light & Wonder) - two heavyweights in the industry. What does that tell you?

Quote: harris

Are there any substantial legal obstacles stopping me (or anyone else) from creating their own clone of Three Card Poker with a different name and logo?

For fun I asked ChatGPT for some suggestions of what a new Three Card Poker game could be named; my favorites are Triad Hold, Third Street Showdown, and Trigon Flush :D
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Are you asking because you'd like to copy someone else's game, or because you'd like to keep other people from copying yours?

I was more wondering why there isn't a different version of Three Card Poker at almost every casino. It seems pretty simple from what others have described - if I knew a little more about the industry I would be tempted to make replica games myself but I prefer to do innovative work.

Quote: harris

I was more wondering why there isn't a different version of Three Card Poker at almost every casino. It seems pretty simple from what others have described - if I knew a little more about the industry I would be tempted to make replica games myself but I prefer to do innovative work.
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All of the casinos who have a license with Light and Wonder will use this one, it has strong name recognition since it has been on the market for 30 years now. The properties that use other distributors are probably using a different version.

A popular YouTuber reached out to me today asking if it would be profitable to make his own company that essentially copies popular games and renames them, before offering them to casinos at a lower price.

What would you estimate is the cost to get a card game ready and approved in a few states? I hypothesized around $10,000 though I could be a bit off.

How much do casinos typically pay to the inventors per table per month? Are inventors expected to provide physical tables, just the felt, or just the idea itself?

Thanks very much.

P.S. Sorry to any table game corporation CEOs reading this. Aforementioned famous YouTuber really would like to work with game-inventing companies to create or promote games, but nobody has reached out :(

I think I know who you are talking about, but to answer your question you can get the knockoff math done for these games probably around 4-10K per game depending on complexity. Plus different licensing costs per jurisdiction, some states can give approval for as low as $500, others are going to cost 5-6 figures, which then need to be renewed annually or every few years depending on where. However, there are several classes of problems. One, some big companies already do this, the big game distributors have clones have each others games already. You are going to have to break brand-name recognition, which companies won't want to do with popular titles. Third, the big companies package their games with progressive technologies, which are huge money makers, players love them, and going to be cost-prohibitive to reproduce, approve, and introduce your own tech.

You do know who I am talking about :) don’t worry, I’ll make sure he never copies Double 4 More ;)

I think all your points are good and important except that I feel like casinos don’t actually care that much about brand recognition (hence the prevalence of Three Card Prime, Free Bet knockoffs, I Luv Suits (might be more popular than the original game), and Jackpot/HeadsUp Holdem).

I assume the answer might be “volatility” but do you think it’s feasible to make a similar side bet (min/max: $5) with a 200,000:1 on the top of the pay table? Players would get the chance to become a millionaire without all the technology.

Quote: harris

You do know who I am talking about :) don’t worry, I’ll make sure he never copies Double 4 More ;)

I think all your points are good and important except that I feel like casinos don’t actually care that much about brand recognition (hence the prevalence of Three Card Prime, Free Bet knockoffs, I Luv Suits (might be more popular than the original game), and Jackpot/HeadsUp Holdem).

I assume the answer might be “volatility” but do you think it’s feasible to make a similar side bet (min/max: $5) with a 200,000:1 on the top of the pay table? Players would get the chance to become a millionaire without all the technology.
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There are also custom felt tops and shuffler systems to develop; I'm not an expert but I think that casinos expect those to be part of licensing a new game.

I know Caesars did something like this with a Millionaire Maker side bet. It seems attractive, but becomes a problem for their books. Progressives solve this, they reserve money into the progressive fund so it does not cost them when it eventually pays out (the money was already set aside and seeded over time). If they were to have a $5 side bet paying a 1M, when it his it is going to destroy their numbers for the month, quarter, if not year depending on size. Even if collectively they can absorb it, it destroys the game's numbers.

Some casinos do care about brand recognition (but not all). I have tried pitching my 3-card variant to places that wouldn't even look because they already have Three Card Poker. A lot of these places also value the relationship they have built with these vendors over the years, so yes you can undercut them but are they going to risk losing that business relationship of a lot of years (with companies who also provide slot + other products).

Back to your original question, it might be possible, but I think you would be limiting your customer base to smaller low-budget operations, that would be a hard sell.

Quote: gordonm888

There are also custom felt tops and shuffler systems to develop; I'm not an expert but I think that casinos expect those to be part of licensing a new game.
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Yeah plus making a logo, getting signs, making pamphlets

Another issue with a 3CP game is that it’s essentially a game that is in decline. My brother works in table games (and at several properties) and while the game has a known brand, the numbers no longer support it “earning its keep” on most casino floors.

Much like how Caribbean Stud and Let it Ride used to be found in most properties, 3CP is now in a downward trend. As a result, without adding some novel addition to the game, I believe most decision makers wouldn’t entertain a clone for this reason.

Quote: Doubleluck1

Another issue with a 3CP game is that it’s essentially a game that is in decline. My brother works in table games (and at several properties) and while the game has a known brand, the numbers no longer support it “earning its keep” on most casino floors.

Much like how Caribbean Stud and Let it Ride used to be found in most properties, 3CP is now in a downward trend. As a result, without adding some novel addition to the game, I believe most decision makers wouldn’t entertain a clone for this reason.
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3CP is a boring game. It has a one-note basic strategy; so it feels kinda like a coin flip. Boooring.

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: Doubleluck1

Another issue with a 3CP game is that it’s essentially a game that is in decline. My brother works in table games (and at several properties) and while the game has a known brand, the numbers no longer support it “earning its keep” on most casino floors.

Much like how Caribbean Stud and Let it Ride used to be found in most properties, 3CP is now in a downward trend. As a result, without adding some novel addition to the game, I believe most decision makers wouldn’t entertain a clone for this reason.
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3CP is a boring game. It has a one-note basic strategy; so it feels kinda like a coin flip. Boooring.
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Face up Pai Gow has zero basic strategy, feels like a coin flip, and is very boring. Yet it is very popular.