Best New Table Games Competition 2016
My questions to those of you more familiar with the game design landscape is: Is this competition worth the investment? Do you get good industry exposure? Is this a well attended event?.
The field of new games is hit-and-miss, some sharp, some not so good, so if your game is fine, it may show very well.
Your game should be well-developed and ready to install, with math, artwork, dealing procedures (to be trainable), and the like.
Cutting Edge is worth it, but only if you're ready for it.
You don't post much here, so maybe you don't know me. I invented a side bet that I'm trying to get into casinos. http://www.Poker-For-Roulette.com
I've been going to G2E for a few years, but in my opinion, that's not a great place for an independent person to introduce a table game. While there are plenty of people there, it attracts too diverse of a crowd.
Two years ago, I had thoughts like you're having. Is it worth it, what's the format, etc. So I paid for an attendee registration so I can see what it's all about.
The Cutting Edge show (formerly called Raving), is JUST about table games. It's a much smaller show than G2E - G2E takes up the entire Sands Convention Center floor for the expo, plus other rooms and banquet areas for ancillary items, Cutting Edge uses a banquet room about the size for a 200 guest wedding for the expo, and another room about the same size for their seminars. G2E has about 25,000 attendees, Cutting Edge has a couple hundred. Lastly, the focus of G2E is primarily slots and food & beverage. The focus of Cutting Edge is almost exclusively table games and side bets.
The format is fairly basic. It starts Monday evening with a cocktail reception where attendees can visit the booths. Tuesday all day and Wednesday morning, there are 45 minute to 1 hour seminars with in the next room with 30 minutes breaks in between. During the seminars, some attendees will stay in the expo room, visiting more booths. During the breaks, there is a rush as all the attendees come out and visit booths again.
Attendees are encouraged to visit each booth. They are given a voting ballot. Each vendor stamps their spot on the ballot. Just before lunch Wednesday, they mark the ballot with their favorite and turn the ballot in. Only ballots that have every vendor stamped will count. Also, valid ballots will get the attendee entered in the door prize raffle. Lunch is a catered deal with a keynote speaker, followed by results of the vote.
So, yeah, I think Cutting Edge is the ideal place to showcase your new game - assuming you're ready.
The next question is, are you ready?
If you think the cost is a mere $3,500 on top of your Vegas visit, you're in for a shock.
While one person is sufficient to man the booth during the down time when seminars are happening, you need a second (and maybe a third) to handle the rush during the breaks. The extra people don't necessarily need to know every detail about the game, they must know enough to talk about it, demonstrate it, and answer most basic questions.
You'll also need a variety of handouts. Business cards, rule cars, brochure, math report.
Let's not forget the actual table, with your custom printed felt. And some stools so the attendees can sit at the table like it's an actual casino game. Don't forget to get chips so we can bet!
Some type of SWAG is also a good touch. Pens, keychains, even Hershey's Kisses are fine, but something.
While you can rent the table and stools locally (ask the show management about that), printing the felt and shipping and storing all that other stuff is on you.
Last, but certainly not least, is your game ready? By that I mean, do you have a patent, and is it really a good game? Have you played it with your friends? Have you thought about all the possible kinks and issues, and worked them out?
Most important, do you really think you have a realistic chance of winning?
Good luck.
Here's the link to the web version:
http://eblast.bnpmedia.com/EVENTS/TGC16/TGC16_EB2/TGC16_EB2.html
DJTeddyBear: I read your success story last night and it was quite encouraging. When I first got into this 'hobby' (I call it that because so far I have had nothing but expenses and the trill of the ride) I saw your posts on this forum (that was back in 2011) about your roulette side bet idea and then last night I saw your post about your success with Galaxy Gaming. Wow.. good job.
I do have a full patent, it is a little over 2 years old now. All the gaming math has been verified by GLI. I even have a professionally inked felt by Designs by Willy, who was recommended to me by members of this forum years ago.
Is the game a clear winner? Aren't they all clear winners in the eyes of their creators? The game is fun. Friends and family that have played it encourage me to try to sell it, however, they don't have to pay the bills required to do that. The one encouraging thing about my game is that everyone who has looked at it really likes it, but the people that have looked at it are the ones I paid to look at it. (i.e. my patent lawyer, GLI math guy, Willy Santiago...etc. ). The mathematician from GLI liked the game so much he was calling me just to discuss possible variations and ideas for bonus bets.
Anyway, whether or not the game wins, I am really just hoping for some exposure. I am not good at marketing, as a matter of record, I am downright awful at it and it even scares me. My experience at 2011 G2E was disappointing because I didn't come away with so much as a single good contact. However, on a personal level it was a smashing success in that I forced myself to approach several game companies and present my game. (Like Indian Jones jumping into a pit of snakes). Besides the personal growth aspect of this journey, I have had zero success in getting people in the industry to even look at my game. So I don't have any data to say if the game has potential.
Please PM me. Happy to help coordinate a meeting for you with a large gaming company in Las Vegas.
Thanks. Yeah, this "hobby" can be pricey. The patent and patent lawyer set me back a pretty penny. But if you ask my bookkeeper (wife), she'll say the expenses have been much more than my estimate. After all, she's adding the expenses (including gambling bankroll) for all the trips I've made to Vegas to show my game to whoever would listen. Not that I needed a reason to visit Vegas. :)Quote: VonVesterDJTeddyBear: I read your success story last night and it was quite encouraging. When I first got into this 'hobby' (I call it that because so far I have had nothing but expenses and the trill of the ride) I saw your posts on this forum (that was back in 2011) about your roulette side bet idea and then last night I saw your post about your success with Galaxy Gaming. Wow.. good job.
For the record, I too am terrible at marketing and follow-up. I may have gotten lucky in that I became friends with PaiGowDan. For a while he was working for Galaxy Gaming, and he had suggested to them, on several occasions, that they look at my game. Thanks again, Dan!Quote: VonVesterAnyway, whether or not the game wins, I am really just hoping for some exposure. I am not good at marketing, as a matter of record, I am downright awful at it and it even scares me. My experience at 2011 G2E was disappointing because I didn't come away with so much as a single good contact.
The day after my first Cutting Edge (2014), I had a meeting at Galaxy's office. After an hour or so of them hitting me with all the right questions, I had my handshake agreement.
When you were at G2E in 2011, was it as an exhibitor, or attendee? Have you been back since?
If I recall correctly, I have been to Vegas at least 10 times in the last 4 years. Each time I was either passing business cads at shows, or had meetings set up to talk about the game. I DO think that part of that repetition led to some amount of familiarity, which may have helped when Dan was pushing my idea at Galaxy.
In addition to these visits, I attended a couple wedding professional's conferences in Vegas. At my last one, I met Dan, Mike and several other industry people, in an attempt to sell my other idea, Hit It Again. That idea died a quick death, but it gave me great insight into this side of the industry.
Quote: HunterhillSince you have a patent why not post the details of the game. You could get some opinions and constructive criticism from alot of experienced game designers.
Thank you for the invitation Hunterhill. I wasn't going to bore everyone with the details, however, like any true game designer, I love nothing more than waxing on about my latest project. I would absolutely love any advice, comments or criticism about the game. I honestly need to know any negatives about the game so don't hold back in the name of civility.
Casino Derby is a horse racing based table game. The really exciting part about it, for me, is the game resolution algorithm, which is also the primary focus of the patent. The algorithm may be used for a variety of games, limited only by the designer's imagination, and still be protected under the patent. The algorithm is a random number generator combined with a table of fixed 'bonuses' to each roll so that each element of the event (horses in a horse race in this case) has a different probability of finishing the race first.
This all sounds very complicated on paper, however, the game is simple to deal and easy for players to understand. The dealer uses dice or cards to randomly generate movement for the horses and then combines those numbers with '1's' or '0's' from a handicap chart to advance the horses along the track. Game bets are similar to horse racing bets and the payouts vary considerably depending upon which combination of horses you bet on. The time from start to payout for each race is about a minute and a half depending upon the amount of play, this is similar to a single spin of a roulette wheel.
Casino Derby was originally designed to be a table game, however, it also makes a fun slot game. I programmed a simple slot game using the 'Scratch' programming language. This game can be played on the Scratch website. The website is safe and is owned by Massachusetts Institute of Technology. I am not an artist, nor am I a computer programmer, however, the game works and will give you a better idea of the game mechanics. There are play instructions with the game and, if you click the blue square in the upper left corner, the game becomes full screen. The forum won't let me leave a wed address here, but if you go to the scratch website ( Google 'Scratch') and add the following line to the end of the address and hit <Enter>, you will get to the game:
/projects/109822715/
Give it a try, have fun, and let me know what you think.
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/109822715/
1. A house percentage, based on optimum play, of 2-3%.
2. Some element of strategy/decision-making on the part of the player.
3. Ample opportunity for the player to increase the house edge by playing badly.
4. Opportunity for a "side bet," which should carry a huge payoff (that will only be hit about once a century) and have a house edge of 8-10%.
5. Easy to learn but not simplistic (in other words, not something like Casino War).
6. It should be a riff on an existing gambling game (not necessarily a table game).
7. 40-60 decisions/hour.
It looks like you're mostly there, but what about 2., 3., and 4.?
Game Development appears to be somewhat akin to making seventeen straight Banker Hands at Baccarat. If you pull it off, you are a millionaire, but if lose on the final hand, you've got all those commission markers to pay.
Getting a trial run in a casino is fun, but the casino can still position the game off the beaten path or the crowds those few weeks might not really be a representative sample.
And I still think that Poker For Roulette needs a different name such as Extravaganza Side Bet.
I totally agree. Even when I was focused on a five spin version, I wasn't married, or even in love, with the name.Quote: FleaStiff... And I still think that Poker For Roulette needs a different name.
I'm merely keeping the name as my own working title. Plus, I got the web domain name, logo polo shirts, etc.
The name Galaxy Gaming is using is Trio-lette.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikHere's what I read somewhere (can't remember where) about what a new table game should have in order to appeal to casino operators:
1. A house percentage, based on optimum play, of 2-3%.
2. Some element of strategy/decision-making on the part of the player.
3. Ample opportunity for the player to increase the house edge by playing badly.
4. Opportunity for a "side bet," which should carry a huge payoff (that will only be hit about once a century) and have a house edge of 8-10%.
5. Easy to learn but not simplistic (in other words, not something like Casino War).
6. It should be a riff on an existing gambling game (not necessarily a table game).
7. 40-60 decisions/hour.
It looks like you're mostly there, but what about 2., 3., and 4.?
Casino Derby has bullet point #4 covered pretty well. If you have looked at my video game on 'Scratch', a White-Yellow-Green tri-fecta pays 179 : 1 and there are plenty of other bets that pay over 40 : 1. Long shot bets.
However, bullet point #2 has often been a concern of mine. Like betting real horses, you choose your horse and hope for the best. No real strategy there. That is the way most horse betters bet. However, with Casino Derby the handicap is posted right on the game layout so that players can see and understand the advantage one horse has over the next. If you have seen the video game, you can see that the Red horse has a bonus on the first, second, fourth and fifth rolls, whereas the Green horse only gets a bonus on the second, fourth and sixth rolls. A horse handicapper may give the handicap chart a second look before betting ... but I doubt it.
Bullet point #3 has no relevance in Casino Derby at all. All bets have nearly the same house edge and the payouts are designed that way. It is identical to Roulette in this regard. As you are all familiar with Roulette, it is the same house edge whether you bet Black or straight up on a number. So, like Roulette, no matter which bet your money falls on you cannot make a bad play.
Casino Derby does have a tremendous amount of flexibility for the casino. Payouts can be easily altered to raise and lower the house edge. Even the handicap chart can be altered to change outcome probabilities. This way the casino can lower the house edge on long-shot bets to make them more popular or raise the house edge to make them more profitable.
Can I play Trio-lette anywhere now?Quote: DJTeddyBearI totally agree. Even when I was focused on a five spin version, I wasn't married, or even in love, with the name.
I'm merely keeping the name as my own working title. Plus, I got the web domain name, logo polo shirts, etc.
The name Galaxy Gaming is using is Trio-lette.
This is going to be my 'game designer swan song'. If nothing comes of this, the game goes in a box in the attic where my grandchildren can throw it out when they settle my estate. I just cannot keep vomiting out this much cash. My wife has been very patient and supportive of my new 'hobby' (I was joking above, she is actually the motivating factor for entering this competition, I was already going to call it quits but she pushed me to give this one more try and besides, she gets a trip to Vegas in the deal).
So, with all that being said, does anyone have advice or contacts on how to get it all ready? (i.e. vendors that will rent me a game table and chairs for the set up, or how much 'glitz' and advertisement I should adorn the area with to attract attention?) Do I need multiple copies of the patent to hand out or is one copy enough for 'interested parties' to see and verify that the game is protected? The same question for copies of the GLI math analysis? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am right now hacking my way through a forest of unknowns.
I invite anyone here that is coming to the Conference to stop by the 'Greenbrier Game Design' booth and say 'hi' and wish me good luck or condolences, depending upon your opinion of my game.
Quote: VonVesterWell, I did it. I pulled the trigger and bought a spot on the floor at the Flamingo Hotel for the 2016, Table Games Conference. (Since we don't have enough money now to get a new dishwasher for the kitchen, I will be doing a lot more dishes to appease the boss.)
Congratulations!
The people who attend Cutting Edge are the casino managers who want to review and install new games. Good place to be to have a good shot at it!
The wife will always be like, "Well, Mister....GENIUS....That sounds like a GREAT IDEA, honey.....I bet nobody thought of this before....I bet it is a BREEZE to do....How much cash will it COST??!!" If and when the royalties come in, she'll change her tune, until then a little Sam Kinison.....
Quote: VVThis is going to be my 'game designer swan song'. If nothing comes of this, the game goes in a box in the attic where my grandchildren can throw it out when they settle my estate. I just cannot keep vomiting out this much cash. My wife has been very patient and supportive of my new 'hobby' (I was joking above, she is actually the motivating factor for entering this competition, I was already going to call it quits but she pushed me to give this one more try and besides, she gets a trip to Vegas in the deal).
Believe me, you would have never forgiven yourself if you had not tried something like this in life. Most people spent their free time on the couch watching cable eating Doritos all day. Don't be like that!
Quote: VVSo, with all that being said, does anyone have advice or contacts on how to get it all ready? (i.e. vendors that will rent me a game table and chairs for the set up, or how much 'glitz' and advertisement I should adorn the area with to attract attention?) Do I need multiple copies of the patent to hand out or is one copy enough for 'interested parties' to see and verify that the game is protected? The same question for copies of the GLI math analysis? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am right now hacking my way through a forest of unknowns.
Bring GLI math, do NOT bring the patent disclosure. Bring a how to play card (a lot of them), dealing procedures, and a rules of play. NO patent disclosure, but a patent filing receipt instead.
Quote: VVI invite anyone here that is coming to the Conference to stop by the 'Greenbrier Game Design' booth and say 'hi' and wish me good luck or condolences, depending upon your opinion of my game.
Absolutely!
Quote: VonVesterWell, I did it. I pulled the trigger and bought a spot on the floor at the Flamingo Hotel for the 2016, Table Games Conference. (Since we don't have enough money now to get a new dishwasher for the kitchen, I will be doing a lot more dishes to appease the boss.)
This is going to be my 'game designer swan song'. If nothing comes of this, the game goes in a box in the attic where my grandchildren can throw it out when they settle my estate. I just cannot keep vomiting out this much cash. My wife has been very patient and supportive of my new 'hobby' (I was joking above, she is actually the motivating factor for entering this competition, I was already going to call it quits but she pushed me to give this one more try and besides, she gets a trip to Vegas in the deal).
So, with all that being said, does anyone have advice or contacts on how to get it all ready? (i.e. vendors that will rent me a game table and chairs for the set up, or how much 'glitz' and advertisement I should adorn the area with to attract attention?) Do I need multiple copies of the patent to hand out or is one copy enough for 'interested parties' to see and verify that the game is protected? The same question for copies of the GLI math analysis? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am right now hacking my way through a forest of unknowns.
I invite anyone here that is coming to the Conference to stop by the 'Greenbrier Game Design' booth and say 'hi' and wish me good luck or condolences, depending upon your opinion of my game.
I genuinely wish you success at the conference. I highly recommend you talk to Stephanie Weingarten at BNP Media, because she can answer a lot of these current to the 2016 event, and refer you to the right resources otherwise. I think she's terrific at her job there.
You should IMO have several things.
Preprinted rack cards for distribution/display at the table. These should be what you would, as a player, find at the casino. A couple hundred.
A manager's brochure, detailing the stats for the game like HE, win rate, RTP, hands per hour, etc, repeating the basic rules, highlighting sales points such as GLI math, patents owned or applied for, any special equipment needed, that sort of thing. Maybe 50 to 100.
Several copies of the math report and any game protection reports you've had done, mostly for reference in pitching, but there might be a few requests. 6 - 10
Business cards that include the name of the game and its logo. Current contact info. Couple hundred.
Patent paperwork and work notes on hand. Your business card should include a link to a private page somewhere that you have pdfs of all of this above available to the prospective buyers only.
Some kind of giveaway, maybe with your logo, maybe just a little tchotchke. Pens or highlighters, Keychain screwdrivers or divot fixers or dice or gaming, little things with your logo imprinted, even mints or wrapped candies if nothing else. There are several companies that sell these very cheaply in hundredlots, personalized.
Professional table felt and a table sign with your logo on a flat base, since you'll be renting or borrowing a table.
Banner to hang behind your game and decorate your booth. Should have game name and logo at a minimum.
Your own cards, dice, chips, whatever you need to deal the game.
Someone to deal the game and keep it flowing while you talk and demo. You get short, busy sessions between conference segments. Can be family or friend, but should be competent and practice dealing your game beforehand. You're trying to get the managers to visualize your game in their house, so make it easy for them to "see" it. Many people hire a pro to do the dealing.
Not yet, unfortunately.Quote: RoyalBJCan I play Trio-lette anywhere now?
Cantact the show management. There might be a requirement to use a specific contracted vendor. If not, they, or the hotel, should be able to give you local contacts for whatever you need.Quote: VonVesterSo, with all that being said, does anyone have advice or contacts on how to get it all ready? (i.e. vendors that will rent me a game table and chairs for the set up, or how much 'glitz' and advertisement I should adorn the area with to attract attention?)
And good luck!
Quote: VonVesterWell, I did it. I pulled the trigger and bought a spot on the floor at the Flamingo Hotel for the 2016, Table Games Conference.
I'll be sure to play a few hands. If you'd like my assistant Heather and I do to a video of the game, let me know.
Below is the link to the table rental companies on BNP's site.
Table Rentals
Von, How do you define success in game design? Getting Galaxy Gaming to sign one up? Having a field trial? Having Gaming's approval? Showing the game at G2E? Having one placement? Having a net profit (income minus expenses)? Sold the game for $x millions?Quote: VonVesterThank you both for the encouraging responses.
DJTeddyBear: I read your success story last night and it was quite encouraging. When I first got into this 'hobby' (I call it that because so far I have had nothing but expenses and the trill of the ride) I saw your posts on this forum (that was back in 2011) about your roulette side bet idea and then last night I saw your post about your success with Galaxy Gaming. Wow.. good job.
IMO, if one has not made any money, it's not a success.
Quote: RoyalBJVon, How do you define success in game design? Getting Galaxy Gaming to sign one up? Having a field trial? Having Gaming's approval? Showing the game at G2E? Having one placement? Having a net profit (income minus expenses)? Sold the game for $x millions?
IMO, if one has not made any money, it's not a success.
Forgive me for chiming in, but true:
Forty or more cash-paying installs....
Quote: VonVesterThe 'Best New Table Games Competition' is coming up in November at the Flamingo Hotel in Las Vegas and I am interested in entering a game into the competition. The cost of the floor space, as I am sure many of you already know, is $3000 or $3500 if you purchase a 'Casino Journal' advertisement too.
My questions to those of you more familiar with the game design landscape is: Is this competition worth the investment? Do you get good industry exposure? Is this a well attended event?.
My very rough estimate is the overall cost for the event could be in the $10,000 range.
$3500 exit floor space.
$2000 registration fee for 2 person.
$1000 table rental (much higher for big and bulky Craps table).
$2000 airfare and lodging.
$1000 misc. promotional items.
Do these number$ sound reasonable?
Quote: PaigowdanForgive me for chiming in, but true:
Forty or more cash-paying installs....
At $1000/month x 12 months x 40 installs = $480,000/year. That's a success for sure.
That's a huge success. I think you can set the bar far lower. I think if you've doubled your total go-to-market investment -- which includes math, patents, layouts, marketing, regulatory, trade shows, whatever -- then you're successful. Most people in the "independent casino game design" business never come close to recouping their investment at all, no matter how small it is. I'm one of the lucky few, but that's with a strong emphasis on "few".Quote: 777Quote: PaigowdanForgive me for chiming in, but true:
Forty or more cash-paying installs....
At $1000/month x 12 months x 40 installs = $480,000/year. That's a success for sure.
This is not an industry you should get into if you're looking for a likely return on your investment. There's a reason that there are no financially-healthy, independent table game companies anymore. All of the companies that have any meaningful table game revenue are also doing something else, whether it's progressive systems, tracking systems, slot games, or other equipment. That should tell you something. For example, Galaxy is starting to turn things around by focusing on the upcharge for electronic systems:
Quote: GLXZ 2015 Annual ReportOur Enhanced Table Systems permit us the opportunity to significantly increase the amount of recurring revenue we receive from each table game placement. Accordingly, our goal is to concentrate on installing new game placements using one or more of our Enhanced Table Systems and to convert our existing Proprietary Table Game placements that currently do not incorporate our Enhanced Table Systems.
In looking at Galaxy's 2015 Q2 actuals, they had 4,638 Proprietary Table Game Units in Service and only 141 Enhanced Table Systems/e-Table Units in Service. That ratio has not changed dramatically over the last 12 months.
Based on Galaxy's latest earnings release on Monday, if anyone doesn't considered Galaxy financially healthy now, just wait 30 months and see what they look like as of 12/31/18!
Quote: 777My very rough estimate is the overall cost for the event could be in the $10,000 range.
$3500 exit floor space.
$2000 registration fee for 2 person.
$1000 table rental (much higher for big and bulky Craps table).
$2000 airfare and lodging.
$1000 misc. promotional items.
Do these number$ sound reasonable?
Estimated costs vary widely depending on the exhibitor's geographic home base location. A lot of those numbers change dramatically if you live within a 8-10 hour drive of Las Vegas.
Your exhibitor registration fees come as part of the $3500 booth fee, so scratch that $2,000 off your list as well.
I would peg that total figure at 50-60% of your total if you can drive yourself to the show via truck or van.
Quote: ParadigmI disagree with the statement that there are no financially healthy, independent table game companies. Galaxy gets the vast majority of their income (>90%) from Proprietary Table Game content as opposed to Enhanced Table Systems.
In looking at Galaxy's 2015 Q2 actuals, they had 4,638 Proprietary Table Game Units in Service and only 141 Enhanced Table Systems/e-Table Units in Service. That ratio has not changed dramatically over the last 12 months.
Based on Galaxy's latest earnings release on Monday, if anyone doesn't considered Galaxy financially healthy now, just wait 30 months and see what they look like as of 12/31/18!
Very unlikely Galaxy will be around in 2018.
Quote: SM777Very unlikely Galaxy will be around in 2018.
That's ridiculous, unless you are saying a large player is going to buy them out. And that's still far fetched as I know acquisitions have been offered in the past.
Galaxy is well managed, has a VERY strong game library and gets more financially sound every quarter.
ZCore13
Quote: SM777Very unlikely Galaxy will be around in 2018.
Care to elaborate here? Or via PM?
Quote: Zcore13That's ridiculous, unless you are saying a large player is going to buy them out. And that's still far fetched as I know acquisitions have been offered in the past.
Galaxy is well managed, has a VERY strong game library and gets more financially sound every quarter.
ZCore13
I would not call High Card Flush, 21 + 3, and plethora of Shuffle Master knockoffs that are hardly placed a VERY strong library. Better than most companies, but if that is your definition of strong, than we have VERY different definitions.
By the end of 2016, I'd imagine this space will look quite different.
It's hard to consider them financially healthy when they're spending every cent they make just to cover the crushing debt they incurred five years ago. Their net income for 2015 was $190,000. I'm not missing any zeros there.Quote: ParadigmI disagree with the statement that there are no financially healthy, independent table game companies. Galaxy gets the vast majority of their income (>90%) from Proprietary Table Game content as opposed to Enhanced Table Systems.
In looking at Galaxy's 2015 Q2 actuals, they had 4,638 Proprietary Table Game Units in Service and only 141 Enhanced Table Systems/e-Table Units in Service. That ratio has not changed dramatically over the last 12 months.
Based on Galaxy's latest earnings release on Monday, if anyone doesn't considered Galaxy financially healthy now, just wait 30 months and see what they look like as of 12/31/18!
I know their CFO is doing as much as he can, but I tend to agree with SM777. The chances that Galaxy is around (in its present form) by 2018 are pretty slim. I don't think they'll fold but I would expect some M&A to happen. No idea who their suitors would be, though. Of course, I'd say the same thing about DEQ too even though they're much less focused on PTGs and far more on progressive systems and other electronics. Their problem is they're still losing money.
Quote: ParadigmCare to elaborate here? Or via PM?
Unfortunately, I can't.
Quote: SM777Unfortunately, I can't.
I'll reply to your comment to me on Galaxy in the morning, but I'm willing to make a wager you are somehow connected to Shufflemaster. Not sure if it's just the rivalry thing, the fact that they have taken some of your market share or just jealousy, but I've been in the business too long to not smell something fishy here.
ZCore13
Quote: MathExtremistIt's hard to consider them financially healthy when they're spending every cent they make just to cover the crushing debt they incurred five years ago.
I agree that it didn't look good there for a while. Here is what I am seeing now just based on the latest earnings release. The last two quarters of operating cash flow have exceeded the principle payments on the debt...so the debt is getting paid off at what appears to be about $1MM per quarter. The debt is gone in 10 quarters if the current repayment schedule is maintained and operating cash flow appears to finally be able to support that repayment plan.
Quote: MathExtremistTheir net income for 2015 was $190,000. I'm not missing any zeros there.
Net income for the first six months of 2016 was $757,000. That means they earned almost 300% more in the first 6 months of 2016 than they did in all of 2015. I didn't add any zeros to that percentage growth figure :-).
Quote: MathExtremistThe chances that Galaxy is around (in its present form) by 2018 are pretty slim. I don't think they'll fold but I would expect some M&A to happen. No idea who their suitors would be, though.
So you expect Galaxy will be acquired? If they post net income for 2016 of $1.5MM on recurring revenue of $12MM+ (the majority of which comes from PTG content) with annual operating cash flow in excess of $5MM and their debt balance at less than $8MM, where do you put the acquisition price in terms of a market capitalization of the equity? Would you call a company with those statistics "financially healthy"?
Quote: SM777I would not call High Card Flush, 21 + 3, and plethora of Shuffle Master knockoffs that are hardly placed a VERY strong library. Better than most companies, but if that is your definition of strong, than we have VERY different definitions.
By the end of 2016, I'd imagine this space will look quite different.
High Card Flush and 21+3 are top tier games. Heads up holdem and Three Card Prime are obvious knockoffs of UTH and Three Card Poker, but they are both cheaper to lease than their counterparts and Heads Up Holdem is a better game in my opinion and will replace UTH installs.
The big money maker you are mis sing is their Bonus Jackpot system. At around .05 a wager for their take on every bet, they are setting themselves uP for big money. The initial expense of developing it and making all the equipment is done. Now they can make money on it.
Other than Shufflemaster who has a better library of games?
Table Games people generally do not like Shufflemaster, it's just that they have historically owned the market on games and shufflers. I don't see that changing anyttime soon on the shuffler market, but in table installs, Shufflemaster is vulnerable. Galaxy is the company most able to take advantage. I thought AGS might have a good shot at first, but the more I hear and see about their efforts, the less I think they can be a major player in table games.
And I doubt very seriously anything will look different by the end of 2016.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13High Card Flush and 21+3 are top tier games. Heads up holdem and Three Card Prime are obvious knockoffs of UTH and Three Card Poker, but they are both cheaper to lease than their counterparts and Heads Up Holdem is a better game in my opinion and will replace UTH installs.
The big money maker you are mis sing is their Bonus Jackpot system. At around .05 a wager for their take on every bet, they are setting themselves uP for big money. The initial expense of developing it and making all the equipment is done. Now they can make money on it.
Other than Shufflemaster who has a better library of games?
Table Games people generally do not like Shufflemaster, it's just that they have historically owned the market on games and shufflers. I don't see that changing anyttime soon on the shuffler market, but in table installs, Shufflemaster is vulnerable. Galaxy is the company most able to take advantage. I thought AGS might have a good shot at first, but the more I hear and see about their efforts, the less I think they can be a major player in table games.
And I doubt very seriously anything will look different by the end of 2016.
*****I would say that Galaxy will continue to be a viable company in the years ahead with at least 20% growth annually. They have a staff who knows what they are doing and knows what sells. It's all about sales and good management. MikeReno Mike
Quote: Zcore13High Card Flush and 21+3 are top tier games. Heads up holdem and Three Card Prime are obvious knockoffs of UTH and Three Card Poker, but they are both cheaper to lease than their counterparts and Heads Up Holdem is a better game in my opinion and will replace UTH installs.
The big money maker you are mis sing is their Bonus Jackpot system. At around .05 a wager for their take on every bet, they are setting themselves uP for big money. The initial expense of developing it and making all the equipment is done. Now they can make money on it.
Other than Shufflemaster who has a better library of games?
Table Games people generally do not like Shufflemaster, it's just that they have historically owned the market on games and shufflers. I don't see that changing anyttime soon on the shuffler market, but in table installs, Shufflemaster is vulnerable. Galaxy is the company most able to take advantage. I thought AGS might have a good shot at first, but the more I hear and see about their efforts, the less I think they can be a major player in table games.
And I doubt very seriously anything will look different by the end of 2016.
ZCore13
The only argument would be AGS, probably a coin flip. But, having the second best library doesn't mean it is strong.
AGS's shuffler is likely going to be a disaster.
I can only imagine your doubts will be addressed with time.
Quote: ParadigmEvery public company is always for sale...it just comes down to pricing. However, I agree with you that Galaxy is not looking to be acquired.
I tend to agree with this.
I also think or fear a few more shake-ups may happen, but Galaxy itself seems solid, has a handle on its debt, and is relatively privately held by a man who has a strong sense of his company's place.
Big changes may be setting themselves up to occur, but it won't happen overnight.
I think that's less of a crack and more the fact that Gavin Isaacs simply didn't need to keep being in charge of gaming companies. Three big wins at the top means he has nothing left to prove in the industry, he'll probably retire from active executive management to board membership. Of course, Usain Bolt just retired after winning 3 times too...Quote: PaigowdanI think some cracks are showing up; the CEO of Scientific games has been replaced with an executive from the cruise line industry.
I also think or fear a few more shake-ups may happen, but Galaxy itself seems solid, has a handle on its debt, and is relatively privately held by a man who has a strong sense of his company's place.
Big changes may be setting themselves up to occur, but it won't happen overnight.
But replacing an experienced gaming executive with someone from a different industry doesn't always work out so well. Look what happened when IGT replaced their CEO with a telecom executive -- IGT's share price significantly lagged the market during Patty Hart's tenure. Here's a stock chart taken directly from IGT's 2014 annual report, which conveniently is just about the entire time Hart was in charge:
(from https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/353944/000035394414000034/form10k.htm)If IGT had even managed to grow in line with the rest of its peer group, there's no way the $4.7B deal with GTECH would have made sense ($6.4B including the $1.7B in IGT debt). That number would have been far too low.
From what I've read about Kevin Sheehan, his background and CV are more likely to make for a good helmsman at SciGames than Patty Hart did at IGT, but obviously the proof will be in the numbers.
Not looking, sure, but I think it's more likely than any other alternative. I mean, very few companies openly advertise their willingness to be acquired. Ironically, that's exactly what DEQ did in January, but that's an anomaly I think:Quote: ParadigmEvery public company is always for sale...it just comes down to pricing. However, I agree with you that Galaxy is not looking to be acquired.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/deq-systems-board-of-directors-announces-exploration-of-strategic-alternatives-565758001.html
Second, would you consider Galaxy healthy based on the 12/31/16 financial parameters I listed above?
Quote: ParadigmME, since you think a sale is the most likely path, what's Galaxy worth today?
Second, would you consider Galaxy healthy based on the 12/31/16 financial parameters I listed above?
I'm telling you, Robert Saucier has no interest in selling. It would take a ridiculous, way over market price offer even for consideration.
ZCore13
Quote: SM777I would not call High Card Flush, 21 + 3, and plethora of Shuffle Master knockoffs that are hardly placed a VERY strong library.
You are so wrong here.
High Card Flush was the true innovation when it was first introduced. No other games were so simple and fun, thus it has the great success in the market place. Galaxy and AGS spent million dollars in the court room to fight for the full rights and Galaxy won.
Shuffle later came out with several knockoffs (e. g., high card straight types and like) that were going no where. High Card Flush represents true innovation just like Blackjack Switch.
Quote: RoyalBJYou are so wrong here.
High Card Flush was the true innovation when it was first introduced. No other games were so simple and fun, thus it has the great success in the market place. Galaxy and AGS spent million dollars in the court room to fight for the full rights and Galaxy won.
Shuffle later came out with several knockoffs (e. g., high card straight types and like) that were going no where. High Card Flush represents true innovation just like Blackjack Switch.
I think it is actually that you are wrong, unless I don't realize I said High Card Flush wasn't innovative.
If you reread, I actually listed it with 21 + 3 as their two games of value.....
I'm well aware of the lawsuit.
