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Slotmassacre
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February 21st, 2024 at 7:28:47 PM permalink
From my understanding, the progressive software package IGT has for VP specifically is legacy software that, at times, has trouble communicating efficiently with the many various generations of games out there. Whatís wild is you would think this potential bug could be active in hundreds of games around the country but when you break it down, how many casinos have this hardware package, with this exact software generation, these exact games chosen to be available, along with these exact denominations available, this exact pay table on a not so ubiquitous games such as triple triple AND a royal progressive live AND the quad progressive running on legacy progressive coding AND a linked progressive at that? This could very well be the only bank the world with this exact set up, therefore the first time this potential problem has ever occurred and who knows which unique combination of programming mentioned above may have caused it.

As far as google analytics telling me when someone discusses my workÖthis information is available yes and itís very surprising some of the organizations Iíve seen sharing and discussing my videos, but thatís not what led me here no ;)

Quote: heatmap

Quote: Luckylucyano

Quote: Johnzimbo

So they will likely roll that progressive over to some other machines?
link to original post



Normally they do but they have up to a year to do that. They did remove progressive before when we complained back in December and put it back in at different location without fixing it. No guarantee they will not do that again.
link to original post



too many people watching this thread... somehow we got slotmassacre in a timely manner here.. im assuming his google analytics told him we were talking about this and his video

but i will defer until we see it
link to original post

Last edited by: Slotmassacre on Feb 21, 2024
A.P. Baguley
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February 22nd, 2024 at 1:32:46 AM permalink
Quote: Slotmassacre


As far as google analytics telling me when someone discusses my workÖthis information is available yes and itís very surprising some of the organizations Iíve seen sharing and discussing my videos, but thatís not what led me here no ;)
link to original post



(quote trimmed)

Welcome to the forum.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Wizard
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February 22nd, 2024 at 6:40:43 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

In terapined's picture, which I downloaded and zoomed in on with the two guys sitting and staring at papers... but it's a bit hard to read hence my question marks.

Hands played: 40,103
Coin out: $40851?
Coin in: $50087?
Actual Return: 81.56%?

So way below average even if the 4 2s-4s w/Ace can't be awarded with the current programming. It's 89.18% expected EV if the 2-4 Ace gets zero credits instead of 4000 when you play normal 6/5 TTB strategy. But it's still feasible to have a 81.56% return over only 40,103 hands when 2-4s w/Ace gets nothing.
link to original post



My personal RTP was 77.0% over 2,088 hands played. My biggest win was four aces. My video poker strategy maker does not support triple triple bonus, so I had little idea what I was doing. I could see other skilled players in the same situation.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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February 22nd, 2024 at 6:46:15 AM permalink
Quote: Warrawee

The Wizard said you can't add money to Gameking progressives but that's not true unless there's been some change to the newer machines.



I think I said that I didn't think you could, but could easily be wrong.

Quote:

The Wizard in his Youtube video incorrectly states you get a losing hand after the glitch and the power coming back on. Only the fifth card is different. You still have the four of a kind. I held 3333 and tried to draw. The machine shut off immediately. When the floor person powered it back up the fifth card was a 2 so I hit for $500. 4 2s-4s with an A234 kicker.



Good correction, thanks.

link to original post

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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February 22nd, 2024 at 8:38:42 AM permalink
My newsletter for Feb 22 is about this. Mostly repeating information already in this thread.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Mental
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February 22nd, 2024 at 9:23:23 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My newsletter for Feb 22 is about this. Mostly repeating information already in this thread.
link to original post

One possible way to catch the problem is to put the hardware in the lab and cycle through hands until the fault arises. I assume there are methods to hook up a computer to the game interface to drive it through millions of hands as rapidly as the hardware supports. You shouldn't even need to implement proper strategy. Just hold all the cards. Eventually, the jackpot will be dealt. Then, you capture the core dump and analyze the program state to see what is happening.

Only then do you look at the source code and see if you can trace the program state back to some funky code.

Of course, this approach fails if the problem is communication to a central jackpot server and is specific to the Durango setup. It would be best to test the games in place, if possible.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
johndouglass
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February 22nd, 2024 at 11:15:45 AM permalink
I assume they can step thru in a debugger and load whatever cards they want. Fairly easy to do for a developer after initial setup. Load up the game and network progressive server and set it to current values. Step thru and alter the card values to what u want. Then step thru to see where itís crashing. Assuming this is a general error like a buffer overrun due to the jackpot being so large. If itís something specific to Durango setup then itíll be much tougher to nail down. Would have to mirror setup exactly.
Last edited by: johndouglass on Feb 22, 2024
terapined
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February 22nd, 2024 at 12:06:06 PM permalink
All 8 machines still down this morning with nobody working on them


Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Johnzimbo
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February 22nd, 2024 at 3:18:15 PM permalink
That picture reminded me when we were at Durango last month and I had never seen slot chairs with handles built in...but I rarely visit the finer casinos. Are these new, or do I need to get out more?
Warrawee
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February 23rd, 2024 at 5:40:47 AM permalink
They have the same progressive at Red Rock and it appears to hit regularly but Iíve never played it. Maybe the computer people can compare the two.
Dieter
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February 23rd, 2024 at 6:26:23 AM permalink
Quote: Johnzimbo

That picture reminded me when we were at Durango last month and I had never seen slot chairs with handles built in...but I rarely visit the finer casinos. Are these new, or do I need to get out more?
link to original post



We see them all the time out here in the sticks.
I believe it's a standard option on Gary Platt seating.

Obviously, not every property likes the aesthetics.
May the cards fall in your favor.
McSweeney
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February 23rd, 2024 at 7:55:44 AM permalink
I heard a story from an AP slot player that he and 2 others went to a casino (Casino A) late at night to play a bunch of Ainsworth slot machines linked to a wide area, must hit by progressive jackpot that was getting close to hitting; it was a small "wide area" though because it only involved 2 casinos (Casino A and Casino B) and about 15 machines in total. They dumped a bunch of money into the machines for about an hour (each player playing two machines each), and then realized with horror that the progressive shown on the video monitor was barely going up, despite them max betting on 6 machines. They complained to the casino, who found out that they had failed to properly link Casino A to the progressive, and the only people actually linked to the progressive were the machines in Casino B. He said they shut down the slot machines in question for more than a month and agreed to a remedy where they refunded the 3 guys' losses or something like that. I always wondered if that would be the subject of a class action lawsuit from others who had played that progressive (my guess is they would only have standing if not being linked to the progressive made the machines fall below the legally required RTP), and also makes me wonder how often those kind of mistakes happen without the players knowing it.
heatmap
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February 23rd, 2024 at 1:54:29 PM permalink
Quote: McSweeney

I heard a story from an AP slot player that he and 2 others went to a casino (Casino A) late at night to play a bunch of Ainsworth slot machines linked to a wide area, must hit by progressive jackpot that was getting close to hitting; it was a small "wide area" though because it only involved 2 casinos (Casino A and Casino B) and about 15 machines in total. They dumped a bunch of money into the machines for about an hour (each player playing two machines each), and then realized with horror that the progressive shown on the video monitor was barely going up, despite them max betting on 6 machines. They complained to the casino, who found out that they had failed to properly link Casino A to the progressive, and the only people actually linked to the progressive were the machines in Casino B. He said they shut down the slot machines in question for more than a month and agreed to a remedy where they refunded the 3 guys' losses or something like that. I always wondered if that would be the subject of a class action lawsuit from others who had played that progressive (my guess is they would only have standing if not being linked to the progressive made the machines fall below the legally required RTP), and also makes me wonder how often those kind of mistakes happen without the players knowing it.
link to original post



What you should be asking is if itís legal or illegal to do what you described
terapined
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February 23rd, 2024 at 4:51:08 PM permalink
I thought just a chance some change in the status of the machines at the end of the business day today
No dice
All 8 machines still shut down
Maybe the next chance of a change in status Monday but what do I know.
Wonder if the Casino would allow me to camp/boondock in the parking lot :-)
Rather not
Can't play my Xbox but could play the switch:-)
The plus side of this place, Eat Your Heart Out Rocks
Last edited by: terapined on Feb 23, 2024
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
TomG
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February 24th, 2024 at 3:09:39 PM permalink
Interesting story. I predict that in a few months they will quietly add the money back into other VP progressives and these machines will either be fixed or replaced.

What should happen is to see how many times the machines crashed and assume each time it was because the progressive hit. Stations has to try to find the player and pay them the money based on whatever the progressive was at that time. If it crashed 50 times at an average of $3000, they have to pay $150,000 to those players. If they can't find them in a year, then turn any of that money over to the state. Plus a fine equal to that amount to disincentivize offering deceptive bets.

I think this happened because these machines were not meant to be exposed to sunlight and Durango couldn't afford to cover their windows.
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February 26th, 2024 at 9:57:19 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

Interesting story. I predict that in a few months they will quietly add the money back into other VP progressives and these machines will either be fixed or replaced.

What should happen is to see how many times the machines crashed and assume each time it was because the progressive hit. Stations has to try to find the player and pay them the money based on whatever the progressive was at that time. If it crashed 50 times at an average of $3000, they have to pay $150,000 to those players. If they can't find them in a year, then turn any of that money over to the state. Plus a fine equal to that amount to disincentivize offering deceptive bets.

I think this happened because these machines were not meant to be exposed to sunlight and Durango couldn't afford to cover their windows.
link to original post



I agree this would be the right thing to do, morally. I think IGT/Durango would argue a "malfunction voids all pays and plays" and this was a malfunction. Does anyone know if records are kept of such things, assuming the players used a card?

Gaming strictly does not tell the complainant the outcome of an investigation.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Luckylucyano
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February 26th, 2024 at 10:00:51 AM permalink
Whole bank was still out of service as of 5:30am this morning.
DRich
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February 26th, 2024 at 2:33:35 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



I agree this would be the right thing to do, morally. I think IGT/Durango would argue a "malfunction voids all pays and plays" and this was a malfunction. Does anyone know if records are kept of such things, assuming the players used a card?

Gaming strictly does not tell the complainant the outcome of an investigation.
link to original post



I do not believe any records are kept that would tie back to the player. A deep dive investigation might be able to flush it out. Assuming the machine crashes and requires a slot mechanic to address it it would be logged on the MEAL (Mechanics Entry and Access Log) which is located in each machine (assuming the tech fills it out). Someone could manually go through those logs and correlate it to the person who was playing at that time. I don't think they would actually do that and I don't think Gaming Control would force them to do it.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
terapined
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February 26th, 2024 at 2:46:44 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Wizard



I agree this would be the right thing to do, morally. I think IGT/Durango would argue a "malfunction voids all pays and plays" and this was a malfunction. Does anyone know if records are kept of such things, assuming the players used a card?

Gaming strictly does not tell the complainant the outcome of an investigation.
link to original post



I do not believe any records are kept that would tie back to the player. A deep dive investigation might be able to flush it out. Assuming the machine crashes and requires a slot mechanic to address it it would be logged on the MEAL (Mechanics Entry and Access Log) which is located in each machine (assuming the tech fills it out). Someone could manually go through those logs and correlate it to the person who was playing at that time. I don't think they would actually do that and I don't think Gaming Control would force them to do it.
link to original post


I'm surprised every transaction isn't recorded. Memory is so cheap and simple to record

The 8 machines still out of service this afternoon
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
heatmap
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February 26th, 2024 at 3:30:28 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Quote: DRich

Quote: Wizard



I agree this would be the right thing to do, morally. I think IGT/Durango would argue a "malfunction voids all pays and plays" and this was a malfunction. Does anyone know if records are kept of such things, assuming the players used a card?

Gaming strictly does not tell the complainant the outcome of an investigation.
link to original post



I do not believe any records are kept that would tie back to the player. A deep dive investigation might be able to flush it out. Assuming the machine crashes and requires a slot mechanic to address it it would be logged on the MEAL (Mechanics Entry and Access Log) which is located in each machine (assuming the tech fills it out). Someone could manually go through those logs and correlate it to the person who was playing at that time. I don't think they would actually do that and I don't think Gaming Control would force them to do it.
link to original post


I'm surprised every transaction isn't recorded. Memory is so cheap and simple to record

The 8 machines still out of service this afternoon
link to original post



i go by the rule if its not legally required they usually dont do it unless it benefits them in some way... which might be a good thing in some ways because they "seem" to not value data...meaning they are unlikely to be selling it...
Luckylucyano
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February 29th, 2024 at 12:48:38 PM permalink
People from IGT (game manufacturer ) are actively working on machines today. Like 6 of them.
terapined
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February 29th, 2024 at 2:43:26 PM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

People from IGT (game manufacturer ) are actively working on machines today. Like 6 of them.
link to original post


Down to one guy as of this moment

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terapined
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March 1st, 2024 at 4:14:06 PM permalink
Machines back up
Either somebody hit that progressive (doubt it but never know)
Or
They removed the money

Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Luckylucyano
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March 1st, 2024 at 5:41:36 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Machines back up
Either somebody hit that progressive (doubt it but never know)
Or
They removed the money


link to original post



Aces with a kicker moved from $1663 (when machines were turned off ) to $1713 so I assume they put it back on and it went about a cycle before someone hit it. They did not remove money or it would be more like 1670/1004.
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March 1st, 2024 at 5:43:58 PM permalink
amazing... someone was watching this thread... stayed up like a bunch of days and hit it at the correct moment when we werent paying attention... i love life
100xOdds
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March 2nd, 2024 at 5:31:52 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

amazing... someone was watching this thread... stayed up like a bunch of days and hit it at the correct moment when we werent paying attention... i love life
link to original post


or some ploppie got lucky.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Mission146
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March 3rd, 2024 at 12:05:30 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: heatmap

amazing... someone was watching this thread... stayed up like a bunch of days and hit it at the correct moment when we werent paying attention... i love life
link to original post


or some ploppie got lucky.
link to original post



Seems likely. Itís not a ton of action, but I canít imagine an AP playing one hand beyond when it hit. I suppose that someone else played it a bit is possible.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
terapined
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March 3rd, 2024 at 2:36:19 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: heatmap

amazing... someone was watching this thread... stayed up like a bunch of days and hit it at the correct moment when we werent paying attention... i love life
link to original post


or some ploppie got lucky.
link to original post



Seems likely. Itís not a ton of action, but I canít imagine an AP playing one hand beyond when it hit. I suppose that someone else played it a bit is possible.
link to original post


I'm kind of glad somebody hit this
Its really too volatile for me even around 135%
You may have to go down a few k before you hit
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
DRich
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March 3rd, 2024 at 4:30:55 PM permalink
I may have missed some of the thread, was the jackpot witnessed back at the $6,000 level when it came back online? It wouldn't surprise me if they removed the excess money.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Luckylucyano
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March 3rd, 2024 at 4:39:35 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I may have missed some of the thread, was the jackpot witnessed back at the $6,000 level when it came back online? It wouldn't surprise me if they removed the excess money.
link to original post



No, it was gone when someone in forum first reported it.
Wizard
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March 3rd, 2024 at 9:02:07 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

amazing... someone was watching this thread... stayed up like a bunch of days and hit it at the correct moment when we werent paying attention... i love life
link to original post



This is what I would bet happened too. Congratulations to the lucky patient winner.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
SOOPOO
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March 4th, 2024 at 5:15:32 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: heatmap

amazing... someone was watching this thread... stayed up like a bunch of days and hit it at the correct moment when we werent paying attention... i love life
link to original post



This is what I would bet happened too. Congratulations to the lucky patient winner.
link to original post

.

Or it could have been exactly like someone (SOOPOO) predicted! A worker informed a friend/colleague/relative of exactly when the machines were coming back on line. So he/she hit it before the rest of you became awareÖ.
TinMan
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March 4th, 2024 at 9:20:01 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds


Thought when 4 Queens got rid of the 10/7 ddb, that was the end of it?
link to original post



I don't mean to hijack but wanted to confirm--Four Queens removed the 100.17% double bonus machines?? Did they remove both the quarter games and the $1 games? VPFree2 says the games are there, but I know that can be outdated. I was there in the summer and the games were still there (late August 2023).

If that's true, that's really bad news. I loved to play those games, especially the quarter machine on the far left of that bank, kind of facing the players club desk with the Subway behind you. Volatile, but also the only RF I ever hit on VP. They were really generous with comps too. I haven't paid for a meal in Four Queens for years from basically churning that game. Lots of comped rooms too.

The 9/6 JOB is fine as a back up if the 100% games are gone, but a more boring strategy and obviously a much worse game from a house edge perspective.

Is the $1 10/7 double bonus coin dropper at the Cal still there?
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
Luckylucyano
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March 4th, 2024 at 9:34:31 AM permalink
Quote: TinMan

Quote: 100xOdds


Thought when 4 Queens got rid of the 10/7 ddb, that was the end of it?
link to original post



I don't mean to hijack but wanted to confirm--Four Queens removed the 100.17% double bonus machines?? Did they remove both the quarter games and the $1 games? VPFree2 says the games are there, but I know that can be outdated. I was there in the summer and the games were still there (late August 2023).

If that's true, that's really bad news. I loved to play those games, especially the quarter machine on the far left of that bank, kind of facing the players club desk with the Subway behind you. Volatile, but also the only RF I ever hit on VP. They were really generous with comps too. I haven't paid for a meal in Four Queens for years from basically churning that game. Lots of comped rooms too.

The 9/6 JOB is fine as a back up if the 100% games are gone, but a more boring strategy and obviously a much worse game from a house edge perspective.

Is the $1 10/7 double bonus coin dropper at the Cal still there?
link to original post



10/7 DBs are still there. Maybe other poster meant 10/6 DDB that used to be at bar.
AKT60
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March 4th, 2024 at 5:27:28 PM permalink
I've seen the 25c and $1 10/7 DB machines at Four Queens recently. The $1 10/7 DB at the Cal went missing about a year ago.
terapined
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March 28th, 2024 at 3:38:03 PM permalink
Trying to hit this one at Sams Town
Pretty good pay table with the progressive almost 2k
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
terapined
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March 28th, 2024 at 5:32:44 PM permalink
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
terapined
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March 28th, 2024 at 7:11:35 PM permalink
No Royal but the next best hand :-)
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
terapined
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March 28th, 2024 at 7:30:03 PM permalink
Another 4 aces
Woohoo
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100xOdds
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March 29th, 2024 at 6:54:36 AM permalink
both times you got the kicker. :o
i hate it when it's the wrong game.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
terapined
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March 29th, 2024 at 9:09:02 AM permalink
Back at it with a cup of macchiato
Not sure how to pronounce that
It's high caffeine so it's what I ordered
Never seen this progressive this high
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
DRich
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March 29th, 2024 at 3:08:30 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Back at it with a cup of macchiato
Not sure how to pronounce that
It's high caffeine so it's what I ordered
Never seen this progressive this high

link to original post



\Good luck.
It seems so strange that I am now in South Florida and you are in Las Vegas.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
terapined
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March 29th, 2024 at 3:49:46 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: terapined

Back at it with a cup of macchiato
Not sure how to pronounce that
It's high caffeine so it's what I ordered
Never seen this progressive this high

link to original post



\Good luck.
It seems so strange that I am now in South Florida and you are in Las Vegas.
link to original post


Thanks
I need some luck
Been grinding on this machine last night, this morning and afternoon. Taking lots of breaks :-)
I've never ever hit a Royal in Vegas and it's very frustrating
I hit one Biloxi once and I've barely played there
Not doing too bad as I am hitting several 4 of a kinds
I estimate this is a 101% machine
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
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