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Luckylucyano
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February 16th, 2024 at 8:40:33 PM permalink
At Durango Casino there is a video poker progressive that has gone 40 cycles give or take without being hit. It has been going since casino opened and it should take around 13k hands to hit.
The meter moves at 0.75%. What I suspect happens is that when progressive is hit the machine crashes and new cards are dealt when machine recovers making it impossible for progressive to hit. It is a bug in the software, not intentional, but needs to be investigated by both IGT and the Nevada Gaming Commission.

It is near Summer House restaurant.

People have tried reporting to casino without any luck. Hope someone in this forum can help to get it shut down..



Return of game would be 134% if it was possible to hit progressive that resets at $1000.
Last edited by: Luckylucyano on Feb 16, 2024
Luckylucyano
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February 17th, 2024 at 9:48:32 PM permalink

Still going strong. Anyone wants to bet royal gets hit before the other progressive?
terapined
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February 17th, 2024 at 10:08:33 PM permalink
Hmm
Triple triple triple bonus
Tough game to hit hard in that a straight, 3 of a kind and 2 pair pay so little.
Need to hit at least a 4 of a kind or money will drain real real fast
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 7:13:32 AM permalink

Some people were having problems finding it, this pic from right now should give a better idea of location. Summer House sign in in background. Only poppies are playing this now since all the smart video poker players know is gaffed already.
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 7:22:15 AM permalink
Here is a pic from back in Dec 23, 2023 when progressive had only gone close to 20 cycles. A baby then.
SOOPOO
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February 18th, 2024 at 9:32:20 AM permalink
Are you saying it is gaffed so it will NEVER be hit?

Are you saying if you are dealt 4 deuces and draw one card there is a ZERO chance you will draw an ace?

And you are also saying this is by ‘accident’ and not on purpose?

Remind me what evidence you have?
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 11:22:05 AM permalink
Yes, it is definitely gaffed. What happens is machine crashes whenever you hit the jackpot it and then it comes up with different card being dealt. If you get dealt 4 deuces, you hold the deuces press deal button and if ace comes up then machine crashes before you see result on screen (I am assuming some network error). Slot personnel come and reset machine and now different fifth card is dealt.

Normally when machines crash they save last hand in memory so they can continue hand after it recovers but the crash in this case is so fast that it does not save that you got the ace, it saves hand just before that so when it comes up it finishes hand and different card comes up. We saw same thing happen multiple times when drawing to that particular hand, never when holding cards like 3 to a royal. If you miss it the hand the machine does not crash. The chances of it going 40 cycles are astronomical, billions and billions to 1. It will never ever get hit.

It is obviously an accident, why would a huge casino like Stations do something so obvious like a progressive that cannot be hit intentionally?
DRich
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February 18th, 2024 at 11:35:14 AM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

Yes, it is definitely gaffed. What happens is machine crashes whenever you hit the jackpot it and then it comes up with different card being dealt. If you get dealt 4 deuces, you hold the deuces press deal button and if ace comes up then machine crashes before you see result on screen (I am assuming some network error). Slot personnel come and reset machine and now different fifth card is dealt.

Normally when machines crash they save last hand in memory so they can continue hand after it recovers but the crash in this case is so fast that it does not save that you got the ace, it saves hand just before that so when it comes up it finishes hand and different card comes up. We saw same thing happen multiple times when drawing to that particular hand, never when holding cards like 3 to a royal. If you miss it the hand the machine does not crash. The chances of it going 40 cycles are astronomical, billions and billions to 1. It will never ever get hit.

It is obviously an accident, why would a huge casino like Stations do something so obvious like a progressive that cannot be hit intentionally?
link to original post



How do you know it crashes when you hit the jackpot if it doesn't display the cards? How could you possibly know that without seeing the cards?

Please post a picture of what it looks like when it crashes, that would be interesting to see.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
heatmap
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February 18th, 2024 at 11:37:52 AM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

Yes, it is definitely gaffed. What happens is machine crashes whenever you hit the jackpot it and then it comes up with different card being dealt. If you get dealt 4 deuces, you hold the deuces press deal button and if ace comes up then machine crashes before you see result on screen (I am assuming some network error). Slot personnel come and reset machine and now different fifth card is dealt.

Normally when machines crash they save last hand in memory so they can continue hand after it recovers but the crash in this case is so fast that it does not save that you got the ace, it saves hand just before that so when it comes up it finishes hand and different card comes up. We saw same thing happen multiple times when drawing to that particular hand, never when holding cards like 3 to a royal. If you miss it the hand the machine does not crash. The chances of it going 40 cycles are astronomical, billions and billions to 1. It will never ever get hit.

It is obviously an accident, why would a huge casino like Stations do something so obvious like a progressive that cannot be hit intentionally?
link to original post



people program computers and people have egos so big they normally cant admit fault. stuff like this can happen but its rare so most of the people will assume and fight you til death in order for you to be wrong. another thing to consider is that this is somehow linked to an advantage play and you leaked it.

either way if this is real i cant wait to see your video considering youve been watching this thing for 40 cycles. You think this machine has seen 40 cycles of play and youve been able to wait around for it to happen? i assuming you mean the cycle where all combinations have been gone through and you are seeing repeating outcomes
UP84
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February 18th, 2024 at 11:39:28 AM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

...it is a bug in the software, not intentional, but needs to be investigated by both IGT and the Nevada Gaming Commission.

People have tried reporting to casino without any luck. Hope someone in this forum can help to get it shut down..

link to original post

As you've said, you should report it to the Gaming Commission/Control Board. Of course they'll ask what kind of evidence you have.
terapined
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February 18th, 2024 at 12:32:33 PM permalink
Not sure its gaffed because of the pay tables
Full house , flush, straight, trips, 2 pair, jacks or better
This pay table absolutely sucks when you look at those hands
6 5 3 2 1 1
Severely under paying each hand to fund the progressive and 4 Ace hands
Here is a good comparison with JOB 99.54 payoff table for the same hands
9 6 4 3 2 1

Bottom line, this game just kills you unless you have a massive bankroll because in this game, anything under 4 Aces will drain you and real real fast
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 12:43:53 PM permalink
It crashed multiple times while playing (close to 10 times, we played it like 10 cycles before we realized what was going on) with bank full of people for hours. It was always on a draw to jackpot. Other explanation would be a bug in actual software of each machine which would mean it would happen everywhere, not just at this bank.

I took no pics of crash. Stopped playing immediately on last crash that was one card draw on a friend’s machine. This was in December. I have never seen a machine crash like that in all my years playing VP for a living midhand and needing intervention by slot personnel. Normally machine reboots and comes back in service if anything fails.

Machine return is less than 90% right now if you cannot hit the one jackpot hand so it is crazy to play it again.

Since then the bank has only gotten ploppy action.
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 12:47:43 PM permalink
I have no interest in filing a report under my name to gaming commission and getting in trouble wirh casino.

Evidence is that it has gone 40 cycles without hitting, much easier to win the lottery multiple times in a row. Maybe wizard can come up with what the chances of it not being gaffed are based on it going 40 cycles.
SOOPOO
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February 18th, 2024 at 12:49:31 PM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

It crashed multiple times while playing (close to 10 times, we played it like 10 cycles before we realized what was going on) with bank full of people for hours. It was always on a draw to jackpot. Other explanation would be a bug in actual software of each machine which would mean it would happen everywhere, not just at this bank.

I took no pics of crash. Stopped playing immediately on last crash that was one card draw on a friend’s machine. This was in December. I have never seen a machine crash like that in all my years playing VP for a living midhand and needing intervention by slot personnel. Normally machine reboots and comes back in service if anything fails.

Machine return is less than 90% right now if you cannot hit the one jackpot hand so it is crazy to play it again.

Since then the bank has only gotten ploppy action.
link to original post



Asking those in the know….. like Wiz, DRich, Mental, Axel…. How could you prove the OP is correct? Sounds like OP has lots of circumstantial evidence.

Question….. given optimal play, what are the odds of hitting the progressive in one hand of play?

And to the OP, how many hands since the last progressive jackpot payout?
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 12:58:40 PM permalink
One cycle is 13k hands to hit that hand, at $6100 the cycle is way less. Based on meter movement being 0.75%, meaning meter moves 75c for every $100 through machine, you can assume that $680,000 have been played since machine was installed. $680,0000/$1.25 a hand is 544000 hands. 544000/13k cycle gives us 41.84 cycles meaning that it should have been hit at least 41.84 times in that many hands. It is actually way more than that because cycle becomes shorter when you adjust strategy to hit that particular hand, closer to 10k hands.
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 1:00:17 PM permalink
It has never paid out. Casino is new.
Luckylucyano
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February 18th, 2024 at 2:07:09 PM permalink
g]
Some people were having problems finding it, this pic from right now should give a better idea of location. Summer House sign in in background. Only poppies are playing this now since all the smart video poker players know is gaffed already.
link to original post



The picture above shows a bank with a 135% return game and no one playing it. What are the chances that it is not rigged? Impossible to find a bank with even 103% return on video poker and no one playing it. Specially one with such a short cycle, easy to hit.
terapined
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February 18th, 2024 at 2:12:44 PM permalink
Saw this progressive at Sams Town yesterday that I thought was maybe + EV
I rarely see 25cent machine with a 1687 dollars progressive
But what do I know
I see it was just hit and progressive reset to 1500
I was under the assumption 687 was the progressive buildup
So a lot of progressives start out high such as 1500 but the pay table funds that? It's fooling the ploppy like me?
Yesterday

Today
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Luckylucyano
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tringlomane
February 18th, 2024 at 2:20:27 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

Saw this progressive at Sams Town yesterday that I thought was maybe + EV
I rarely see 25cent machine with a 1687 dollars progressive
But what do I know
I see it was just hit and progressive reset to 1500
I was under the assumption 687 was the progressive buildup
So a lot of progressives start out high such as 1500 but the pay table funds that? It's fooling the ploppy like me?
Yesterday
eg]
Today
eg]
link to original post



That progressive on the 9/7 Double Bonus side is always breakeven or better. There are video poker calculators in this website that you can use to figure out the return using perfect strategy. Meter is slow so it rarely gets over $2000.
heatmap
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February 18th, 2024 at 3:44:20 PM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

Quote: terapined

Saw this progressive at Sams Town yesterday that I thought was maybe + EV
I rarely see 25cent machine with a 1687 dollars progressive
But what do I know
I see it was just hit and progressive reset to 1500
I was under the assumption 687 was the progressive buildup
So a lot of progressives start out high such as 1500 but the pay table funds that? It's fooling the ploppy like me?
Yesterday
eg]
Today
eg]
link to original post



That progressive on the 9/7 Double Bonus side is always breakeven or better. There are video poker calculators in this website that you can use to figure out the return using perfect strategy. Meter is slow so it rarely gets over $2000.
link to original post



were all interested... and all lazy so we need you to somehow get the video of this happening
terapined
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Luckylucyano
February 18th, 2024 at 3:52:51 PM permalink
It is hard to spot because who wants to cycle through all the games.
I'm kind of surprised the casino kind of hides the progressive
If I were running a casino, all progressives would be prominently displayed all the time
If you walk by, you may see this

When you are looking for this
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
ThatDonGuy
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February 18th, 2024 at 4:10:16 PM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

Quote: terapined

Saw this progressive at Sams Town yesterday that I thought was maybe + EV
I rarely see 25cent machine with a 1687 dollars progressive
But what do I know
I see it was just hit and progressive reset to 1500
I was under the assumption 687 was the progressive buildup
So a lot of progressives start out high such as 1500 but the pay table funds that? It's fooling the ploppy like me?
link to original post



That progressive on the 9/7 Double Bonus side is always breakeven or better. There are video poker calculators in this website that you can use to figure out the return using perfect strategy. Meter is slow so it rarely gets over $2000.
link to original post


I get 100.1354% at 1500. I think the break-even point is around 1440.
Mental
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LuckylucyanocalwatchMission146Mukke
February 18th, 2024 at 5:43:51 PM permalink
I agree that your pictures are very strong evidence of some problem just based on probability and cycles. The fact that the machine glitches during certain hands and needs human intervention cements it for me. I cannot imagine a specific software coding error that would only affect one of the jackpots by design. It is more likely to be something like a memory access violation that is triggered by the one jackpot and not the other. In other words, a totally unintended consequences of some unrelated coding error. For example, some string describing the minor jackpot in a log message could be causing a buffer overrun, while the other jackpot overruns the buffer in a less destructive way. The exact character in the overrun determine how some other program state is inadvertently modified during a jackpot hand.

I am very disappointed that the casino cannot see what many of us can see immediately. At the very least, they are derelict for not looking at the security footage for a time spanning the glitches. Even if you have not succeeded in filming it, the casino has the event recorded.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
calwatch
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February 18th, 2024 at 9:24:49 PM permalink
I'm surprised some of the video poker streamers haven't come by and put the issue on film. Certainly I would definitely video anytime I got dealt quads (I kind of do this routinely), although it may be happening when folks are dealt less than a quad and turn a quad and a kicker. If the machine crashes right after a dealt quad (kicker or not) then that is suspicious, but unless you are filming constantly there would be no reason to just film trips or pairs. And the 6/5 pay table is so bad that even ploppies will run away (or play the 7/5 bonus on the same machine).
terapined
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February 18th, 2024 at 10:04:17 PM permalink
Quote: Luckylucyano

At Durango Casino there is a video poker progressive that has gone 40 cycles give or take without being hit. It has been going since casino opened and it should take around 13k hands to hit.
The meter moves at 0.75%. What I suspect happens is that when progressive is hit the machine crashes and new cards are dealt when machine recovers making it impossible for progressive to hit. It is a bug in the software, not intentional, but needs to be investigated by both IGT and the Nevada Gaming Commission.

It is near Summer House restaurant.

People have tried reporting to casino without any luck. Hope someone in this forum can help to get it shut down..



Return of game would be 134% if it was possible to hit progressive that resets at $1000.
link to original post


The WOV site has a video poker calculator.
if i entered the numbers correctly below
overall a 1.122264 or 112%




Outcome Prize Combinations Probability Frequency Variance Return
Royal Flush 4,000 42,372,594 0.000026 39,202.29 16.279807 0.020407
Straight Flush 250 179,571,864 0.000108 9,250.35 0.258264 0.005405
Four Aces with any 2,3,4 4,604 117,371,022 0.000071 14,152.58 59.763468 0.065062
Four 2s, 3s, 4s with an Ace 13,084 160,177,737 0.000096 10,370.37 659.742075 0.252334
Four 2s, 3s, 4s with any 2,3,4 2,000 148,607,798 0.000089 11,177.76 14.233927 0.035785
Four Aces 800 219,121,866 0.000132 7,580.72 3.329779 0.021106
Four 2s, 3s, 4s 400 595,450,414 0.000358 2,789.66 2.230273 0.028677
Four 5s thru Ks 250 2,696,739,840 0.001623 615.97 3.878509 0.081173
Full House 30 15,428,778,669 0.009288 107.66 0.220989 0.055730
Flush 25 17,548,054,632 0.010564 94.66 0.158851 0.052821
Straight 15 17,411,562,906 0.010482 95.40 0.036958 0.031446
Three of a Kind 10 127,912,446,483 0.077005 12.99 0.059326 0.154009
Two Pair 5 186,405,083,559 0.112218 8.91 0.001677 0.112218
Jacks or Better 5 342,337,935,552 0.206091 4.85 0.003081 0.206091
All Other 0 949,899,268,164 0.571849 1.75 0.720230 0.000000
Totals 1,661,102,543,100 1.000000 2.34 760.917214 1.122264
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
terapined
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February 18th, 2024 at 10:20:39 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Luckylucyano

Quote: terapined

Saw this progressive at Sams Town yesterday that I thought was maybe + EV
I rarely see 25cent machine with a 1687 dollars progressive
But what do I know
I see it was just hit and progressive reset to 1500
I was under the assumption 687 was the progressive buildup
So a lot of progressives start out high such as 1500 but the pay table funds that? It's fooling the ploppy like me?
link to original post



That progressive on the 9/7 Double Bonus side is always breakeven or better. There are video poker calculators in this website that you can use to figure out the return using perfect strategy. Meter is slow so it rarely gets over $2000.
link to original post


I get 100.1354% at 1500. I think the break-even point is around 1440.
link to original post


WOV VP calculator I get
100.001 % at 1500
100.005 % at 1648
Makes sense these machines aren't hit hard, barely profitable in the long run with perfect strategy
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
Mission146
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February 19th, 2024 at 2:30:00 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

I agree that your pictures are very strong evidence of some problem just based on probability and cycles. The fact that the machine glitches during certain hands and needs human intervention cements it for me. I cannot imagine a specific software coding error that would only affect one of the jackpots by design. It is more likely to be something like a memory access violation that is triggered by the one jackpot and not the other. In other words, a totally unintended consequences of some unrelated coding error. For example, some string describing the minor jackpot in a log message could be causing a buffer overrun, while the other jackpot overruns the buffer in a less destructive way. The exact character in the overrun determine how some other program state is inadvertently modified during a jackpot hand.

I am very disappointed that the casino cannot see what many of us can see immediately. At the very least, they are derelict for not looking at the security footage for a time spanning the glitches. Even if you have not succeeded in filming it, the casino has the event recorded.
link to original post



That’s EXACTLY what I was going to say.

Verbatim.

Maybe not quite verbatim.

My nomenclature might have been slightly different with my post reading, “The computer might be doing something stupid.”

Thank you for the post, seriously! There are a few words in there I’ll have to look up in the context you used them.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
ChumpChange
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heatmap
February 19th, 2024 at 2:48:56 AM permalink
Slotmassacre was filming when a VP machine crashed as it was paying the Royal Flush at 8:00 minutes into the video, and it's a repeat offender. - Jan 12, 2024
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Feb 19, 2024
100xOdds
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:30:28 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

I agree that your pictures are very strong evidence of some problem just based on probability and cycles. The fact that the machine glitches during certain hands and needs human intervention cements it for me. I cannot imagine a specific software coding error that would only affect one of the jackpots by design. It is more likely to be something like a memory access violation that is triggered by the one jackpot and not the other. In other words, a totally unintended consequences of some unrelated coding error. For example, some string describing the minor jackpot in a log message could be causing a buffer overrun, while the other jackpot overruns the buffer in a less destructive way. The exact character in the overrun determine how some other program state is inadvertently modified during a jackpot hand.

I am very disappointed that the casino cannot see what many of us can see immediately. At the very least, they are derelict for not looking at the security footage for a time spanning the glitches. Even if you have not succeeded in filming it, the casino has the event recorded.
link to original post


Welcome back!
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:38:54 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

WOV VP calculator I get
100.001 % at 1500
100.005 % at 1648
Makes sense these machines aren't hit hard, barely profitable in the long run with perfect strategy
link to original post

100% return machines still exist in vegas?
Thought when 4 Queens got rid of the 10/7 ddb, that was the end of it?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:39:55 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Slotmassacre was filming when a VP machine crashed as it was paying the Royal Flush at 8:00 minutes into the video, and it's a repeat offender. - Jan 12, 2024


link to original post

What happened afterwards?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Mental
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Luckylucyano
February 19th, 2024 at 5:45:07 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Quote: Mental

I agree that your pictures are very strong evidence of some problem just based on probability and cycles. The fact that the machine glitches during certain hands and needs human intervention cements it for me. I cannot imagine a specific software coding error that would only affect one of the jackpots by design. It is more likely to be something like a memory access violation that is triggered by the one jackpot and not the other. In other words, a totally unintended consequences of some unrelated coding error. For example, some string describing the minor jackpot in a log message could be causing a buffer overrun, while the other jackpot overruns the buffer in a less destructive way. The exact character in the overrun determine how some other program state is inadvertently modified during a jackpot hand.

I am very disappointed that the casino cannot see what many of us can see immediately. At the very least, they are derelict for not looking at the security footage for a time spanning the glitches. Even if you have not succeeded in filming it, the casino has the event recorded.
link to original post



That’s EXACTLY what I was going to say.

Verbatim.

Maybe not quite verbatim.

My nomenclature might have been slightly different with my post reading, “The computer might be doing something stupid.”

Thank you for the post, seriously! There are a few words in there I’ll have to look up in the context you used them.
link to original post

In programming languages like C++, programmers can allocate memory without any checks from the compiler or run time system. I can allocate 80 bytes to store a string of text characters (80 standard characters or 40 unicode characters). I can then allocate space to store a program pointer in the next 8 bytes (a 64 bit memory address). If I then copy or write more characters into the character 'buffer' than it can hold, the extra characters will be written over the pointer memory, changing the value of the pointer inadvertently (buffer overflow). Once the program accesses that corrupt pointer, it will either point to invalid memory and cause a program crash immediately via SEGF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentation_fault or else continue on blissfully using the wrong address until something else blows up. This sort of program error can be difficult to uncover in testing. These undetected vulnerabilities to buffer overflow were one of the main exploits that hackers used. Modern languages have more safeguards against this, but they have lower performance as a result of all the memory checks at runtime.

In our current case, the programmers may never have tested the code for the specific instance of a progressive jackpot. For example, the jackpot feature may have been turned off in testing. They might have tested on different hardware than is deployed in the field, and the different memory layout may have different enough to prevent the crash during buffer overflow.

No matter what the cause, it is inexcusable not to have caught this in test. Even more inexcusable is to assume the program could never have any glitches because it has been developed and tested by a reputable company.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
Luckylucyano
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:59:22 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

Quote: Luckylucyano

At Durango Casino there is a video poker progressive that has gone 40 cycles give or take without being hit. It has been going since casino opened and it should take around 13k hands to hit.
The meter moves at 0.75%. What I suspect happens is that when progressive is hit the machine crashes and new cards are dealt when machine recovers making it impossible for progressive to hit. It is a bug in the software, not intentional, but needs to be investigated by both IGT and the Nevada Gaming Commission.

It is near Summer House restaurant.

People have tried reporting to casino without any luck. Hope someone in this forum can help to get it shut down..



Return of game would be 134% if it was possible to hit progressive that resets at $1000.
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The WOV site has a video poker calculator.
if i entered the numbers correctly below
overall a 1.122264 or 112%




Outcome Prize Combinations Probability Frequency Variance Return
Royal Flush 4,000 42,372,594 0.000026 39,202.29 16.279807 0.020407
Straight Flush 250 179,571,864 0.000108 9,250.35 0.258264 0.005405
Four Aces with any 2,3,4 4,604 117,371,022 0.000071 14,152.58 59.763468 0.065062
Four 2s, 3s, 4s with an Ace 13,084 160,177,737 0.000096 10,370.37 659.742075 0.252334
Four 2s, 3s, 4s with any 2,3,4 2,000 148,607,798 0.000089 11,177.76 14.233927 0.035785
Four Aces 800 219,121,866 0.000132 7,580.72 3.329779 0.021106
Four 2s, 3s, 4s 400 595,450,414 0.000358 2,789.66 2.230273 0.028677
Four 5s thru Ks 250 2,696,739,840 0.001623 615.97 3.878509 0.081173
Full House 30 15,428,778,669 0.009288 107.66 0.220989 0.055730
Flush 25 17,548,054,632 0.010564 94.66 0.158851 0.052821
Straight 15 17,411,562,906 0.010482 95.40 0.036958 0.031446
Three of a Kind 10 127,912,446,483 0.077005 12.99 0.059326 0.154009
Two Pair 5 186,405,083,559 0.112218 8.91 0.001677 0.112218
Jacks or Better 5 342,337,935,552 0.206091 4.85 0.003081 0.206091
All Other 0 949,899,268,164 0.571849 1.75 0.720230 0.000000
Totals 1,661,102,543,100 1.000000 2.34 760.917214 1.122264
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That is the correct return for what it was in December ($3271), much higher now.
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February 19th, 2024 at 6:22:55 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Slotmassacre was filming when a VP machine crashed as it was paying the Royal Flush at 8:00 minutes into the video, and it's a repeat offender. - Jan 12, 2024


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once again guys im pretty sure chump has had his yearly kidnapping and someone else has taken over their account. i wish i could have found this very relevant video dag nabbit

video showing crash is at 8:15

HO LEE FUK he says it happened 3 times
SOOPOO
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February 19th, 2024 at 7:51:39 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: terapined

WOV VP calculator I get
100.001 % at 1500
100.005 % at 1648
Makes sense these machines aren't hit hard, barely profitable in the long run with perfect strategy
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100% return machines still exist in vegas?
Thought when 4 Queens got rid of the 10/7 ddb, that was the end of it?
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Progressives occasionally get to +EV. There are apparently a bunch of members here who take advantage of such.
Just to be clear, these machines are NOT -EV for the casino. They become +EV for the player ONLY after the casino has ‘collected’ enough money from OTHER players to fund the progressive.
AxelWolf
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February 19th, 2024 at 8:24:36 AM permalink
Originally I assumed that there wasn't a glitch, but that the casino dumped money on the progressive, or that it just wasn't resetting or something strange.

I assumed there was a nice opportunity to be had here, but after talking to the OP and a few other known VP players I came to realize the OP is legitimate and respected therefore I believed everything he was saying about this.

A big clue it's gaffed/something isn't right... It isn't locked up by pros.

I contacted The Wizard and I believe he is going to investigate the situation.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Luckylucyano
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February 19th, 2024 at 9:24:39 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Originally I assumed that there wasn't a glitch, but that the casino dumped money on the progressive, or that it just wasn't resetting or something strange.

I assumed there was a nice opportunity to be had here, but after talking to the OP and a few other known VP players I came to realize the OP is legitimate and respected therefore I believed everything he was saying about this.

A big clue it's gaffed/something isn't right... It isn't locked up by pros.

I contacted The Wizard and I believe he is going to investigate the situation.
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Thanks Axelwolf, much appreciate it.
Last edited by: Luckylucyano on Feb 19, 2024
AxelWolf
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February 19th, 2024 at 10:13:25 AM permalink
Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
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February 19th, 2024 at 3:33:37 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
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maybe DRICH can weight in again but i feel like this is a memory corruption thing just like MENTAL has said.

this is a serious glitch and its odd that its the first time its been brought up HERE... theres obviously proof this is happening but its been hidden ... on purpose?.... somehow
SOOPOO
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February 19th, 2024 at 4:18:20 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
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Why do I have the feeling that the moment this is fixed ‘someone’ will be alerted and be in that seat until the progressive hits?
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February 19th, 2024 at 4:26:41 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
link to original post




Why do I have the feeling that the moment this is fixed ‘someone’ will be alerted and be in that seat until the progressive hits?
link to original post



well never know if this is fixed... itll be fixed silently just like how its been hidden to this point
SOOPOO
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February 19th, 2024 at 4:55:32 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
link to original post




Why do I have the feeling that the moment this is fixed ‘someone’ will be alerted and be in that seat until the progressive hits?
link to original post



well never know if this is fixed... itll be fixed silently just like how its been hidden to this point
link to original post



Except a human being in the gaming industry will fix it. That human being will have friends/relatives/associates. So YOU may never know when it is fixed. But SOMEONE will know when it is fixed.
DRich
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:21:56 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: heatmap

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
link to original post




Why do I have the feeling that the moment this is fixed ‘someone’ will be alerted and be in that seat until the progressive hits?
link to original post



well never know if this is fixed... itll be fixed silently just like how its been hidden to this point
link to original post



Except a human being in the gaming industry will fix it. That human being will have friends/relatives/associates. So YOU may never know when it is fixed. But SOMEONE will know when it is fixed.
link to original post



Most likely it will be fixed and the people fixing it won't even know where the problem was happening. Just not enough meat on the bone to cause much excitement. I know I wouldn't fly to Atlantic City just to play it and win $6,000.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
SOOPOO
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:35:32 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: heatmap

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
link to original post




Why do I have the feeling that the moment this is fixed ‘someone’ will be alerted and be in that seat until the progressive hits?
link to original post



well never know if this is fixed... itll be fixed silently just like how its been hidden to this point
link to original post



Except a human being in the gaming industry will fix it. That human being will have friends/relatives/associates. So YOU may never know when it is fixed. But SOMEONE will know when it is fixed.
link to original post



Most likely it will be fixed and the people fixing it won't even know where the problem was happening. Just not enough meat on the bone to cause much excitement. I know I wouldn't fly to Atlantic City just to play it and win $6,000.
link to original post



There can be nothing less relevant than if you would or would not fly somewhere to take advantage of a highly +EV progressive. My point is that the ‘fixer’ likely lives near the casino in question. And likely (although not assuredly) is aware that there is meat on that bone.
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February 19th, 2024 at 5:54:41 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: heatmap

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AxelWolf

Also to add: I don't think there's an issue with the RNG. I believe the RNG is acting as it should, it's some communication error that happens after one hits/should have hit the prog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded that IGT, The Casino, or NV Gaming have not resolved this issue. Perhaps The Wizard can bring some much-needed attention to the situation.

Right now, the casino is basically just stealing money from people who play this.
link to original post




Why do I have the feeling that the moment this is fixed ‘someone’ will be alerted and be in that seat until the progressive hits?
link to original post



well never know if this is fixed... itll be fixed silently just like how its been hidden to this point
link to original post



Except a human being in the gaming industry will fix it. That human being will have friends/relatives/associates. So YOU may never know when it is fixed. But SOMEONE will know when it is fixed.
link to original post



ya thats what i meant WE AS THE PEONS that we are will never know
ThatDonGuy
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February 19th, 2024 at 6:19:41 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Most likely it will be fixed and the people fixing it won't even know where the problem was happening. Just not enough meat on the bone to cause much excitement. I know I wouldn't fly to Atlantic City just to play it and win $6,000.
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Isn't this happening at the Durango in Vegas?
calwatch
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February 19th, 2024 at 6:38:14 PM permalink
On the usually moribund VPFree forum, someone did call Gaming. Here is their post:

"I may have learned something about what "malfunction voids all pays and plays" means today. I heard about a progressive at the Durango several weeks ago that those who were playing it thought couldn't be hit. Then, it wasn't on the floor. A few days ago, I heard that it was back and much higher than ever, so, after finding where it had been moved, I gave it a try. After a few hours, I had another 1 card draw, hit "draw", and the machine reset. I believe this has happened many times on this bank and means that the machine would have hit the jackpot but a glitch prevents it from doing so and, after resetting, another card takes its place. I normally would love to play a progressive that borders on a 40% advantage, but I quit. I called Gaming and met an agent there today. She told me that I could forget about getting any of my money back, since "malfunction voids all pays and plays" only refers to what hands can be seen and each machine's memory only goes back 10 hands. I told her that it's been malfunctioning for 2.5 months. It's a 5 coin 25¢ 6/5 Triple Triple, about 100 feet northwest of the Summer House, which is in the southeast corner of the casino. There are 6 machines that 2 progressives are linked to. 1 is 4 As (2 - 4), which was around $1500 a few hours ago, and the other is 4 2s - 4s (A), which is what I believe can't be hit, and was around $6400. My intent in sending this is to get some solidarity in getting Gaming to interpret "malfunction voids all pays and plays" with more common sense. Someday, someone else may be in a similar situation. They're supposed to protect the public from things like this."
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February 19th, 2024 at 6:49:45 PM permalink
Quote: calwatch

On the usually moribund VPFree forum, someone did call Gaming. Here is their post:

"I may have learned something about what "malfunction voids all pays and plays" means today. I heard about a progressive at the Durango several weeks ago that those who were playing it thought couldn't be hit. Then, it wasn't on the floor. A few days ago, I heard that it was back and much higher than ever, so, after finding where it had been moved, I gave it a try. After a few hours, I had another 1 card draw, hit "draw", and the machine reset. I believe this has happened many times on this bank and means that the machine would have hit the jackpot but a glitch prevents it from doing so and, after resetting, another card takes its place. I normally would love to play a progressive that borders on a 40% advantage, but I quit. I called Gaming and met an agent there today. She told me that I could forget about getting any of my money back, since "malfunction voids all pays and plays" only refers to what hands can be seen and each machine's memory only goes back 10 hands. I told her that it's been malfunctioning for 2.5 months. It's a 5 coin 25¢ 6/5 Triple Triple, about 100 feet northwest of the Summer House, which is in the southeast corner of the casino. There are 6 machines that 2 progressives are linked to. 1 is 4 As (2 - 4), which was around $1500 a few hours ago, and the other is 4 2s - 4s (A), which is what I believe can't be hit, and was around $6400. My intent in sending this is to get some solidarity in getting Gaming to interpret "malfunction voids all pays and plays" with more common sense. Someday, someone else may be in a similar situation. They're supposed to protect the public from things like this."

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im going to document this thread in history and the gaming world will never forget this luciano i promise that

whenever they claim this or that never happened ill be there to stick it in their dumb faces and the dumb ones who take it personally will sacrifice their lives over their ignorance i promise you that they will pay in embarrassment
Last edited by: heatmap on Feb 19, 2024
Luckylucyano
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February 20th, 2024 at 5:16:25 AM permalink
Quote: calwatch

On the usually moribund VPFree forum, someone did call Gaming. Here is their post:

"I may have learned something about what "malfunction voids all pays and plays" means today. I heard about a progressive at the Durango several weeks ago that those who were playing it thought couldn't be hit. Then, it wasn't on the floor. A few days ago, I heard that it was back and much higher than ever, so, after finding where it had been moved, I gave it a try. After a few hours, I had another 1 card draw, hit "draw", and the machine reset. I believe this has happened many times on this bank and means that the machine would have hit the jackpot but a glitch prevents it from doing so and, after resetting, another card takes its place. I normally would love to play a progressive that borders on a 40% advantage, but I quit. I called Gaming and met an agent there today. She told me that I could forget about getting any of my money back, since "malfunction voids all pays and plays" only refers to what hands can be seen and each machine's memory only goes back 10 hands. I told her that it's been malfunctioning for 2.5 months. It's a 5 coin 25¢ 6/5 Triple Triple, about 100 feet northwest of the Summer House, which is in the southeast corner of the casino. There are 6 machines that 2 progressives are linked to. 1 is 4 As (2 - 4), which was around $1500 a few hours ago, and the other is 4 2s - 4s (A), which is what I believe can't be hit, and was around $6400. My intent in sending this is to get some solidarity in getting Gaming to interpret "malfunction voids all pays and plays" with more common sense. Someday, someone else may be in a similar situation. They're supposed to protect the public from things like this."

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How do you find this original post?
Wizard
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February 20th, 2024 at 5:16:41 AM permalink
Thank you Luckylucyano for your outstanding post! I hope he won't mind me saying that while I was playing a friend of his joined me for about the last hour. During this time, I spoke with Lucky on his friend's phone.

Sorry for the late arrival, but I had to finish serving a five-day penance. I played this game yesterday. Following is my report.

Time played = 3 hours, 44 minutes
Points earned = 1305
Money bet = $2610
Money lost = $600

The meter for four 2's-4's + ace was at $6324.97 when I left at 5:47 PM. I will call this the "big progressive."

I can confirm based on some time playing my myself that the meter rise on both progressives is 0.75%.

It is my understanding that the progressive for four A's + 2-4 operates normally, which is why it is much lower. I will call this the "small progressive."

If we assume optimal strategy for the base game and pay table, with no deviations for the progressive, a cycle is 12,773 hands. If we assume optimal strategy a small jackpot of $1465 and a big jackpot of $6183, a cycle is 9,804 hands.

Let's be conservative and assume a 12,773 hand cycle. Let's also assume the meter started at $1,000. At a 0.75 meter rise, after doing the math, it should have been 44.5 times. The probability of going that many cycles without being hit is 1 in 20,568,363,602,043,500,000.

A skeptic might say the Durango dumped some money into it from another game. First, I am not sure if this can be done on a GameKing. Second, based on discussion yesterday at the time, it has had many malfunctions already.

For the record, there are six machines that have this progressive. Each game has two numbers on the lights. Here are the machine numbers that offer this game:

838-01, 838-02, 838-05, 838-06, 838-07, 838-08
300030, 300031, 300033, 300034, 300035, 300083

I made videos every time I was two cards aways from hitting the big progressive, but never did I get a malfunction.

I plan to write a letter of complaint to Gaming today, requesting they investigate the game.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
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