darkoz
darkoz
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February 1st, 2020 at 8:21:11 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I don’t see how they wouldn’t pay you if they’re letting you share an account number in the first place. Some casinos do let husbands and wives share an account.

As far as multipliers go, what’s the difference between a vulture playing multipliers that were put there by someone else as opposed to some other player doing it? The only difference is the vulture is going to cash out when no longer at any advantage.

It’s posts like this one that just read as though there is supposed to be something generally wrong with playing at an advantage. Believe it or not, not everyone goes into a casino with the intention of losing money.

Also, finding someone else’s $100 that they dropped and playing it is not considered playing with an edge. The actual gambling (playing it) is no more or less -EV than as if it had been your own hundred. I would also caution that such an action would constitute straight theft in a few states: Colorado and Pennsylvania for sure.



Perhaps non-APs have difficulty telling the difference between legal AP and theft.

To compare accepting free gifts advertised as being offered to a person (and that person giving you permission to pick them up) with someone losing their money on the floor and a stranger just randomly picks it up is ridiculous. (Interesting that while svp puts down using free play as scammy he admits finding a $100 on the floor and playing it. -- hint to svp: try lost and found next time. All casinos have them usually at the security booth)

I imagine svp sees the difference as the free gift is offered to someone specific therefore it technically has his name.on it. Meanwhile that hundred dollar bill ("I don't see your name written on it").

Unfortunately I that interpretation of the law is completely reversed in reality
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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February 1st, 2020 at 8:30:41 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Perhaps non-APs have difficulty telling the difference between legal AP and theft.

To compare accepting free gifts advertised as being offered to a person (and that person giving you permission to pick them up) with someone losing their money on the floor and a stranger just randomly picks it up is ridiculous. (Interesting that while svp puts down using free play as scammy he admits finding a $100 on the floor and playing it. -- hint to svp: try lost and found next time. All casinos have them usually at the security booth)

I imagine svp sees the difference as the free gift is offered to someone specific therefore it technically has his name.on it. Meanwhile that hundred dollar bill ("I don't see your name written on it").

Unfortunately I that interpretation of the law is completely reversed in reality

Is there anyone here who would have taken that $100 bill to lost and found? Just asking?
PokerGrinder
PokerGrinder
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ForagerMission146blackjacklad
February 1st, 2020 at 8:44:49 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

Scalping left over multipliers in my opinion is garbage picking.


Well I garbage picked my way to $13,000 tax free dollars this month. I’ll never know for sure but I think I would literally dive into a dumpster for $13k lol.

Why is vulturing leftover wilds and multipliers like garbage picking?
You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston
FleaStiff
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PokerGrinder
February 1st, 2020 at 9:16:18 AM permalink
Quote: PokerGrinder

Well I garbage picked my way to $13,000 tax free dollars this month. I’ll never know for sure but I think I would literally dive into a dumpster for $13k lol.

Why is vulturing leftover wilds and multipliers like garbage picking?



Maybe it is time for that old joke about a quarter in the men's urinal: it stayed there until one guy came along and tossed three additional quarters into it. Then he announced 'for a quarter, no but for a dollar yes.'
Doc
Doc
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February 1st, 2020 at 9:19:45 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

Is there anyone here who would have taken that $100 bill to lost and found? Just asking?

If I wasn't confident that I had just dropped that bill on the floor myself, I doubt that I would even pick it up. My inclination would be to watch over it (perhaps with my foot on it) and ask someone to summon a pit supervisor or similar employee to whom I would report it. I have picked up loose coins on the floor of stores or in parking lots, but when you get to a $100 bill, it is money that might be significantly important to someone, and it is not my nature to steal it from them, even if I do not know who they are. On a casino floor, surveillance could likely determine who dropped such a bill.

Regarding honesty in a casino, yes, I have reported to table game dealers when they have overpaid me or paid me when my wager lost, although there have been times when I have not done that in cases where correcting the dealer error would have cost other players their payout. I think I even posted here about a time when a cashier overpaid me when I turned in chips, and it took me multiple tries to get her to pay it out correctly. (Not a major error in payout, but I felt a cashier ought to be able to count cash correctly.)
heatmap
heatmap
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Mission146
February 1st, 2020 at 9:39:23 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I would also caution that such an action would constitute straight theft in a few states: Colorado and Pennsylvania for sure.



Our one friends father was a part of setup for electrical wiring at Sands in Bethlehem, and he tells me everytime I bring up the casino, "If you find something on the floor dont pick it up, and if you do raise it above your head for the camera and proceed to the security booth to turn it in."
Mission146
Mission146
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darkozForagerChuckleberry
February 1st, 2020 at 9:57:22 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

I do not believe there is anything wrong with playing with an advantage. How, when and where you gain that advantage brings up some interesting questions. In his book "Million Dollar Video Poker", Bob Dancer stated he gained an advantage through a casino error in the comp payout. Should he have informed the casino of the error? If he was being paid by a casino as a consultant and found the same error, would he inform the casino or call an AP? When is gaining an edge wrong or is it always right?



No, he should not have informed the casino of the error in the comp payout, unless you presume him to be an idiot...which he definitely is not. Do you think the casino has surveillance on the table games doing a real time audit of everything ready to correct any mistakes that work against the player? Answer: No. If there is a mistake and the player loses a bet that he should not have lost or doesn't get paid when he is supposed to, then the player usually has to make that error known to the casino and often has to jump through a hoop and a half to get that corrected.

There was a thread on here where a casino didn't have a maximum aggregate payout sign on a particular table on which one of the side bets hit for some huge amount, of course, they tried to say that a maximum aggregate payout was in effect and then they grabbed a sign and put it on that table after the fact. That player had to deal with gaming in order to get paid properly.

Your posts read like several of the ones out there that would seem to suggest that the players (particularly advantage players) need to operate with ethical standards that the casinos simply do not share, which is a ridiculous notion. Do you know that there are casinos out there that let self-excluded gamblers in, know damn well that they are self-excluded, but then it never becomes a problem until the person hits a jackpot.

For me, I only draw three lines:

1.) Legal v. Illegal

2.) Getting tossed v. Not getting tossed.

3.) Not taking directly from other players or doing anything that directly encourages other players in the casino to gamble more, gamble on a specific game or leave me with a favorable EV situation to the detriment of themselves.

As far as taking advantage of the casino in and of itself is concerned, screw them, anything legal goes. They can shove their internal rules, players club rules, whatever. It's not like all of their rules are even stated or as if they can't screw me whenever they want to even in the event that I operate fully within their rules.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
darkoz
darkoz
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February 1st, 2020 at 10:08:20 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Our one friends father was a part of setup for electrical wiring at Sands in Bethlehem, and he tells me everytime I bring up the casino, "If you find something on the floor dont pick it up, and if you do raise it above your head for the camera and proceed to the security booth to turn it in."



I have heard that advice from actual security in a casino as well.

Raising it above your head shows you are not placing it in your pocket while you walk it to the proper security location
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mission146
Mission146
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February 1st, 2020 at 10:09:21 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

Is there anyone here who would have taken that $100 bill to lost and found? Just asking?



In Pennsylvania, I definitely would have. If I were in Colorado, I would. I also don't think that I could just take cash and have actually never done that. I honestly am not sure that I was ever presented with the situation with a hundred. I found a dollar bill in a WV casino that I found near the entrance and offered to the security guy, he told me just to pocket it, so instead I stuck it in the little donation thing they have near the entrance to the casino floor. I also found a $20 sitting on the bar in a casino in Maryland with no apparent owner that was not in the position generally associated with it being a tip, in fact, it was sitting just to the left of the bill acceptor for the machine. I asked the bartender how long since anyone had been sitting there, he said about an hour, so I said, "Someone left this here," and slid the bill over to him to take the decision as to what to do with it out of my hands.

At one time, I would take abandoned credits (where legal) after waiting around nearby (or leaving and checking back) after a reasonable amount of time, but my views on even doing that have matured somewhat. It's honestly not worth any potential hassle to do it, in my opinion. I'm not saying it's wrong, just that I've decided that it's wrong for me and I don't want to do it. Casinos can toss you for any reason they want to and you never know if they are looking for an excuse to do so, so I'm certainly not going to give them one. Most often, I hit the cash out button and stick the ticket on top of the machine. In casinos where taking it is not illegal, if it's less than $5 and the casino has a donation thing, I'll sometimes cash it out and stick it on top of the machine, but if nobody has grabbed it by the time I am ready to leave the casino I'll go stick it in the donation thing.

Hate to say it, homeslice, but I am almost positive I would turn in a $100 bill even in a state where I don't have to. I think they can fill out some sort of form that you were the one who turned it in and then you get it if unclaimed, but that may not even be the case. Rather than seeing it as a quite probably drunk person leaving credits on a machine out of essentially neglect, I would look at a $100 as something more akin to a true accident. It probably fell out of someone's wallet, purse or money clip in a way not even necessarily due to them being drunk.

But, I'm not going to judge you for taking that $100 bill that was almost certainly accidentally dropped by someone without their realizing it. Why don't you tell me more about how my Vulturing UX machines is garbage-picking, though, I'd also love to hear a diatribe about same being morally bankrupt, if you're so inclined.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
sabre
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February 1st, 2020 at 11:03:12 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

Is there anyone here who would have taken that $100 bill to lost and found? Just asking?



No. I would have put my foot on it, waved over the nearest security guard or slot attendant, pointed to it, and told them i just saw this bill on the floor.

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