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Wizard
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December 17th, 2018 at 5:11:20 PM permalink
My 9-6 Double Double Bonus simulation is done and I have posted the results to my new page Taxable Return from Video Poker. So far it has 9-6 DDB only, but I'm planning to add some other common games skilled video poker players are likely to play. Currently simulating 9-6 Jacks.

Please click the link and let me know what you think. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
mustangsally
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December 17th, 2018 at 6:30:02 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Please click the link and let me know what you think. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.

You mention that the standard deduction increased and it looks like it did.
Across the board.

But, to me, at the same time, the personal exemption (IIRC about $4k) was eliminated.
So, to me, they added that to the standard deduction and threw on a few extra $$$s to make it look like icing on the cake. (unless it just went up for inflation adjustment - then there is NO icing on the cake)

I am not a tax pro by any means but it is very easy to look this stuff up and compare to the past few years.

thank you for taking the time to do this.
This thread touches on tax laws that just are not explicitly pointed on a single form or info page.

I guess the IRS wants it that way
they take so much from me each year
Sally

about 2
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Wizard
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December 17th, 2018 at 6:51:09 PM permalink
Thank you for your comments Sally. I may do a whole separate page about how taxation of gambling winnings is supposed to be handled and how most people actually handle it to avoid an audit.

I have never eaten a half can of soup. Never. Two servings per can my patoot!

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
ChumpChange
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December 17th, 2018 at 7:54:09 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I would think a two-sided card in your wallet, and your smart phone would be admissible documentation. Spread your br with a card that says "starting br", take a picture and save it. When you're done playing, flip the card over where it says "ending br" and shoot that with the money spread out.

Those will have the date and time, along with whatever log you're making for the games you play. Better even might be chip racks/stacks that are countable if you're on tables, or TITOs before you cash in.



Interesting idea if I believed in compliance of any sort. I can't even scan dollar bills anymore because of software restrictions.
Nothing makes the pit jumpier than somebody reaching for their phone at the tables. I'll have to find a place away from the tables or the cage to take pictures.
It brings me back to my theory that I'd have to count my br before I leave home and again when I get home, where I can actually get some lighting. I can include the travel time in the time stamp spreads. I really hate making evidence for a scam IRS though.
100xOdds
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December 17th, 2018 at 7:56:39 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Well, did you read the article? You *do* report your wins as a single integer (and your loss as a single integer, if you're itemizing.) What you *don't* do is subtract your losses from your wins and report the net profit as your income. You also don't submit your daily journal, that's just backup in case you get audited.



I do not dispute this is what you're supposed to do.

Let's look at an example.

Johnny is single with a work income of $100,000. He has absolutely nothing to deduct on schedule A except, perhaps, gambling losses.

The standard deduction for 2018 for individuals is $12,000 (source: forbes.com).

The marginal tax rate for income between $82,501 and $157,500 in 2018 is 24% for individual filers. (same source)

Summing up every individual session, here are Johnny's gambling results for 2018:

Wins: $12,000
Losses: $32,000

If my understanding is correct, he would have to pay taxes on $100,000 in income. Whether he itemizes or not, he deducts the same $12,000 from $112,000 in AGI.

The situation for Mary is exactly the same, except she didn't gamble at all. She uses the standard deduction and pays income on $88,000.

So, John actually lost $20,000 gambling and ends up paying 24%*$12,000 = $2,880 more in taxes than Mary.

Do I have that right? Does that sound fair?


so if johnny had $8k worth of deductions (ie: property taxes on his house + mortgage deduction), then he could have added that $12k gambling loss for 20k deductions.

so $8k of that $12k gambling loss would have been put to use.

this is no different than before the Trump tax law changes, except the combined personal and standard deduction was lower.

am I correct?
if not, where's my flaw?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
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December 17th, 2018 at 7:57:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I may do a whole separate page about how taxation of gambling winnings is supposed to be handled and how most people actually handle it to avoid an audit.

yes please!
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
gordonm888
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December 17th, 2018 at 8:05:37 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My 9-6 Double Double Bonus simulation is done and I have posted the results to my new page Taxable Return from Video Poker. So far it has 9-6 DDB only, but I'm planning to add some other common games skilled video poker players are likely to play. Currently simulating 9-6 Jacks.

Please click the link and let me know what you think. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.



I had this exact problem in 2017 - I claim the standard deduction every year (recently) and I had a win in a 2017 poker tournament of about $10,000 -recorded by a W2G form. I had to pay a couple of thousand dollars in taxes because I could not claim off-setting losses from enetring other poker tournaments and from losing gambling sessions. That was very sobering and brought this issue into sharp focus for me.

Since then I have avoided playing these games:
DDB Video poker
Mississippi Stud and UTH because a significant amount of their equity is in large payouts that will trigger W2G forms.
Side bets on table games with payouts that will exceed $1,500.

I have even avoided playing in major poker tournaments this year because so much of the equity is in large payouts for going deep in the tournament.

I am glad to see that the tax issue has surfaced and is being understood.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
billryan
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December 17th, 2018 at 8:09:48 PM permalink
It's certainly surfaced. I'm not sure how well its understood, but it's a discussion well worth having. If the information is accurate and timely.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Wizard
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December 17th, 2018 at 8:43:42 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

so if johnny had $8k worth of deductions (ie: property taxes on his house + mortgage deduction), then he could have added that $12k gambling loss for 20k deductions.

so $8k of that $12k gambling loss would have been put to use.

this is no different than before the Trump tax law changes, except the combined personal and standard deduction was lower.



That looks right. How much you otherwise itemize definitely figures into it. Basically, if you're between the 2017 and 2018 standard deductions, as is the case with me, then this change in the law effects you.

This is a result of the Trump tax law change. Given that he used to have his name on three Atlantic City casinos, you would think he would have had thrown gamblers a bone and let them deduct before itemizing.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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December 17th, 2018 at 8:47:16 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

yes please!



Thanks! Until I do, MichaelBluejay's page is a good source on how taxes are supposed to be done. However, almost nobody follows the "session" method that you're supposed to and I'd like to address how to file if you want to keep the IRS happy and not get an audit.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
onenickelmiracle
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December 17th, 2018 at 10:17:34 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

You mention that the standard deduction increased and it looks like it did.
Across the board.

But, to me, at the same time, the personal exemption (IIRC about $4k) was eliminated.
So, to me, they added that to the standard deduction and threw on a few extra $$$s to make it look like icing on the cake. (unless it just went up for inflation adjustment - then there is NO icing on the cake)

I am not a tax pro by any means but it is very easy to look this stuff up and compare to the past few years.

thank you for taking the time to do this.
This thread touches on tax laws that just are not explicitly pointed on a single form or info page.

I guess the IRS wants it that way
they take so much from me each year
Sally

about 2

Geez, 10 minutes for this video, seemed over at 2 minutes. Is it going to turn out Campbell's killed Kennedy?

Added: after 4.5 minutes, I'm stressed, about to call help hotline. lol.

tbc
Added: Then I opened an identical pair of shoes I just ordered from Amazon and they're not identical. Ugh. Slightly different, different label inside shoes and they feel longer.

Waiting on another pair of another identical pair I had to pay 40% more just to get the same color and comfort. Google sucks for shopping just price.
Last edited by: onenickelmiracle on Dec 17, 2018
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odiousgambit
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December 18th, 2018 at 5:37:42 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.


Quote:

For those filers who plan to take the standard deduction, you won't be able to deduct gambling losses any longer. That means you'll pay tax the full way on any wins of $1,200 or more, which necessitate a W2G form. This can reduce the return of high-limit video poker players significantly. All machine players, for that matter.

well, Bluejay is not going to like that paragraph. I think you have to mention the position he and others are taking on how an overall session loss, or a session whittling down a win, is another way to approach reducing what you report. And then editorialize on it. How? I think I would say things like "depending on your tolerance for dealing with the IRS" "your litigious nature" "willing to risk IRS scrutiny" "realize what you might be getting yourself into"etc. Bluejay should put that stuff in there too in his article.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: ďThanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!Ē   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
AcesAndEights
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December 18th, 2018 at 5:44:26 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Wizard

Quote: MichaelBluejay

Well, did you read the article? You *do* report your wins as a single integer (and your loss as a single integer, if you're itemizing.) What you *don't* do is subtract your losses from your wins and report the net profit as your income. You also don't submit your daily journal, that's just backup in case you get audited.



I do not dispute this is what you're supposed to do.

Let's look at an example.

Johnny is single with a work income of $100,000. He has absolutely nothing to deduct on schedule A except, perhaps, gambling losses.

The standard deduction for 2018 for individuals is $12,000 (source: forbes.com).

The marginal tax rate for income between $82,501 and $157,500 in 2018 is 24% for individual filers. (same source)

Summing up every individual session, here are Johnny's gambling results for 2018:

Wins: $12,000
Losses: $32,000

If my understanding is correct, he would have to pay taxes on $100,000 in income. Whether he itemizes or not, he deducts the same $12,000 from $112,000 in AGI.

The situation for Mary is exactly the same, except she didn't gamble at all. She uses the standard deduction and pays income on $88,000.

So, John actually lost $20,000 gambling and ends up paying 24%*$12,000 = $2,880 more in taxes than Mary.

Do I have that right? Does that sound fair?


so if johnny had $8k worth of deductions (ie: property taxes on his house + mortgage deduction), then he could have added that $12k gambling loss for 20k deductions.

so $8k of that $12k gambling loss would have been put to use.

this is no different than before the Trump tax law changes, except the combined personal and standard deduction was lower.

am I correct?
if not, where's my flaw?


Yes, the it was unfair before the 2018 tax law changes, just amplified now due to the increased standard deduction.
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Sep 10, 2019
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
AcesAndEights
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December 18th, 2018 at 5:55:58 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

well, Bluejay is not going to like that paragraph. I think you have to mention the position he and others are taking on how an overall session loss, or a session whittling down a win, is another way to approach reducing what you report. And then editorialize on it. How? I think I would say things like "depending on your tolerance for dealing with the IRS" "your litigious nature" "willing to risk IRS scrutiny" "realize what you might be getting yourself into"etc. Bluejay should put that stuff in there too in his article.


Wiz, I am on a similar page as OG on this article. While definitely the tax issue deserves some attention, the problem is that by implying that you only pay tax on amounts over $1200, you could be suggesting tax fraud.

All gambling winnings are taxable. Of course, the vast majority of amateur gamblers don't report gambling (and since most of them are net losers, I personally don't find anything ethically wrong with this).

If you are a skilled VP player (or skilled at any gambling) that generally has a yearly win, you should be reporting that win on your taxes. Whether you follow the session accounting rules (and hence deal with the probably CP2000 notice) or not, all net wins should theoretically be reduced by your marginal tax rate in calculating the return.

I understand this doesn't really apply to the average recreational gambler, and I doubt you are exposing yourself (or LCB) to any legal action, just feel obligated to mention it. Honestly I'm not sure how I would write an article to address this.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Wizard
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December 18th, 2018 at 6:28:44 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Wiz, I am on a similar page as OG on this article...



Point well taken. I will add something to that page that if you don't mind the hassle of keeping a log, getting audited, and then fighting the IRS for over a year, then W2G forms are meaningless. Personally I value my time too much and for me the right decision is to not play video poker if it will trigger a lot of W2G forms.

A silver lining to all this is it is almost a new year, a good time to actually start keeping a log.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AcesAndEights
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December 18th, 2018 at 6:42:02 AM permalink
Personally, I tracked my win/loss in a spreadsheet even before I learned about the necessity of a gambling journal for accurate tax purposes. The spreadsheet didn't have all of the suggested information, but most of it. Table number is the main piece of missing information, which I have since started recording. Usually I gamble alone, so witnesses isn't a big issue. But date, time, property, buy in, cash out, and net result were always part of my personal log just so I know what I'm losing or winning.

I am surprised that the given the crowd here at WoV, more people weren't already pretty close to this requirement just for personal tracking. Not throwing shade, just surprised :)
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
ChumpChange
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December 18th, 2018 at 7:29:16 AM permalink
I'll just bring a $50,000 casino cashier's check to the bank and declare "gin!"
100xOdds
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December 18th, 2018 at 8:02:14 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks! Until I do, MichaelBluejay's page is a good source on how taxes are supposed to be done. However, almost nobody follows the "session" method that you're supposed to and I'd like to address how to file if you want to keep the IRS happy and not get an audit.

I just use casinos annual win/loss forms and claim ignorance if audited.
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billryan
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December 18th, 2018 at 8:06:44 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Personally, I tracked my win/loss in a spreadsheet even before I learned about the necessity of a gambling journal for accurate tax purposes. The spreadsheet didn't have all of the suggested information, but most of it. Table number is the main piece of missing information, which I have since started recording. Usually I gamble alone, so witnesses isn't a big issue. But date, time, property, buy in, cash out, and net result were always part of my personal log just so I know what I'm losing or winning.

I am surprised that the given the crowd here at WoV, more people weren't already pretty close to this requirement just for personal tracking. Not throwing shade, just surprised :)



For reasons I've never figured out, several prominent members choose to sprout nonsense here, and act very different in real life.
The very people that I would turn to for real world advice choose to be very bizarre , for reasons unknown.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Wizard
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December 18th, 2018 at 8:10:17 AM permalink
I updated my Taxable Return from Video Poker to include a table for 9-6 Jacks or Better. I also added more careful language about how declaring gambling wins and losses is supposed to be done.

You can see from my tables that I indicate the ratio of wins taxable for 25-, 50, and 100-play games of $5, $10, and $25 denomination. However, I don't think such games actually exist. A $25 100-play game would be $12,500 per bet, which I'm quite sure doesn't exist. My question to the forum is what is the highest denomination you've seen on a 25-, 50-, or 100-play game? I know I've seen $1 lots of times for up to 100-play, but can't recall more.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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December 18th, 2018 at 8:29:18 AM permalink
I have another question. What pay table should I use for deuces wild? I want a pay table that is still findable for high-level players. I'm thinking 25-15-104-4-3 (return of 99.42%). Thoughts? Please don't say NSUD, as that is difficult to find at high levels any longer, unless there are games I don't know about. I think the San Manuel has one at the $5 denom, if I'm not mistaken (shut up Wiz!).
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AcesAndEights
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December 18th, 2018 at 8:51:23 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I updated my Taxable Return from Video Poker to include a table for 9-6 Jacks or Better. I also added more careful language about how declaring gambling wins and losses is supposed to be done.

You can see from my tables that I indicate the ratio of wins taxable for 25-, 50, and 100-play games of $5, $10, and $25 denomination. However, I don't think such games actually exist. A $25 100-play game would be $12,500 per bet, which I'm quite sure doesn't exist. My question to the forum is what is the highest denomination you've seen on a 25-, 50-, or 100-play game? I know I've seen $1 lots of times for up to 100-play, but can't recall more.


I like your verbiage on the new page. Thumbs up from this amateur.

I think you may have linked the text of "Russell Fox"'s name incorrectly to MBJ's Easy.Vegas page. The link at the bottom of the page is correct (guessing that's where you meant to send it).
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Aug 19, 2019
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
mustangsally
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December 18th, 2018 at 8:58:22 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

well, Bluejay is not going to like that paragraph. I think you have to mention the position he and others are taking on how an overall session loss,

That web page as I read it over one time, has way too much info for the average person to understand all at once.
It should be broken down with specific examples to see.

The basic question many rec gamblers have is (like a few of my girlfriends)
"How much taxes do I have to pay now that the casino gave me a $2000 w2g and they did not take out any Federal taxes?"

Mr Bluejay page points over to a pdf a few times.
and one webpage that says this:
"The Courts considered that interpretation as too burdensome and unreasonable according to IRS chief counsel advice memorandum A.M. 2008-011 December 5, 2008. IRS chief counsel believes that the better view is that a casual gambler recognizes a wagering gain or loss at the time she redeems her tokens or cashes out of the slot machine. "

here is the link to that pdf AM
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/am2008011.pdf

"subject: Reporting of Wagering Gains and Losses
This Chief Counsel Advice responds to your request for assistance about a
recurring issue in litigation. This advice may not be used or cited as precedent."

So, to me, there still is not anything the IRS says specifically about this session accounting.
I am tired of searching
unless one reads more IRS court rulings that talk about it.
That one link about the couple in CA in 2013 comes to mind.
https://www.ustaxcourt.gov/ustcinop/opinionviewer.aspx?ID=11365

session accounting is talked about in that legal document
and that couple lost (I think) because they did not follow the rules of session accounting, claiming all winnings by session and all losses by itemize them. they instead said they had $0 winnings and took the standard deduction, a NO NO!

Mr Bluejay page points over to a pdf
IRS Notice 2015-21. "Gross income from a slot machine wagering transaction is determined on a session basis."
here it is
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-15-21.pdf

"The Internal Revenue Service (Service) and the
Treasury Department are aware that determining the amount of a wagering gain or loss
from slot machine play is burdensome for taxpayers and sometimes creates controversy
between taxpayers and the Service"
"To reduce the burden on taxpayers, this proposed revenue procedure, if
finalized,
will provide an optional safe harbor method for determining what constitutes a
session of play for purposes of calculating wagering gains or losses from electronically
tracked slot machine play"



I have been told by my Lawyer, who is NOT a tax professional (CPA), that a tax professional that is not a lawyer, can not give legal advice on taxes because they are not a lawyer.
"Both CPAs and tax lawyers can help with tax planning, financial decisions, and minimizing tax penalties. CPAs might have more expertise on the financial side of tax prep, while an attorney can provide legal advice in the face of adversity or possible problems."

https://www.toptaxdefenders.com/blog/cpa-vs-tax-attorney-whats-the-difference

question remains and it is such a common question asked. I was asked about it well over a dozen times this year. Most by friends.
"How much taxes do I have to pay now that the casino gave me a $2000 w2g and they did not take out any Federal taxes?"
I would just say something like "I know you will have to pay some, do not know how much. You have to do your taxes"
I have poor friends who do not itemize, so they have a w2g and no losses to deduct, they are screwed and do not like it.
more than not fair.

this is by far NOT an easy subject
and one answer can not apply to every situation, I would think
I could and am probably wrong there.

I have many w2gs for this year.
lots of bank deposits from casinos for more than I took out (winnings)
I have lots of questions too

Sally
Last edited by: mustangsally on Dec 18, 2018
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ChumpChange
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December 18th, 2018 at 10:20:24 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I'll just bring a $50,000 casino cashier's check to the bank and declare "gin!"



Bank calls cops on black man because they thought his paycheck was too high
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/bank-calls-cops-black-man-thought-paycheck-high/
onenickelmiracle
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December 18th, 2018 at 10:38:37 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Bank calls cops on black man because they thought his paycheck was too high
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/bank-calls-cops-black-man-thought-paycheck-high/

I wish I was black and they did that to me, my check from them would be a lot higher than $1000. What else do they want besides ID and the check which they have to cash? This doesn't feel like the right thread for this post, assume you posted in the wrong thread by accident.
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onenickelmiracle
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December 18th, 2018 at 10:46:36 AM permalink
They must have been telling the truth when they said most people would save $24 from the tax cuts. As a group, gamblers have no representation, it makes sense for the politicians to pile on even more nonsense with regards to gambling, so they can shift the money around for their friends and contributors. That's just corrupt politics. Sell the casino stocks short if you have money, this is going to hurt them, I'd guess they're way down already though, but with room to drop more. It's going to be a real habit changer.
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ChumpChange
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December 18th, 2018 at 11:00:29 AM permalink
Over half of S&P 500 stocks are in Bear Territory (down more than 20% from the highs) lately, and those stock traders are going to have to possibly declare some losses on their taxes.
mustangsally
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December 18th, 2018 at 11:02:46 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Quote: mustangsally

Sally

about 2

Geez, 10 minutes for this video, seemed over at 2 minutes. Is it going to turn out Campbell's killed Kennedy?

Added: after 4.5 minutes, I'm stressed, about to call help hotline. lol.

(I just can't get enough of Vi)
way more fun
this is NOT Vi

Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
mustangsally
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December 18th, 2018 at 11:15:06 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I have never eaten a half can of soup. Never. Two servings per can my patoot!

me too!

For you
Happy Holidays

How to Make a Girl Smile
do not go right to the end. You miss the setup


Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
tringlomane
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December 18th, 2018 at 11:18:48 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That looks right. How much you otherwise itemize definitely figures into it. Basically, if you're between the 2017 and 2018 standard deductions, as is the case with me, then this change in the law effects you.

This is a result of the Trump tax law change. Given that he used to have his name on three Atlantic City casinos, you would think he would have had thrown gamblers a bone and let them deduct before itemizing.



That would require Trump to care for someone other than himself. Good luck with that.

Quote: Wizard

I have another question. What pay table should I use for deuces wild? I want a pay table that is still findable for high-level players. I'm thinking 25-15-104-4-3 (return of 99.42%). Thoughts? Please don't say NSUD, as that is difficult to find at high levels any longer, unless there are games I don't know about. I think the San Manuel has one at the $5 denom, if I'm not mistaken (shut up Wiz!).



I wouldn't use 15/10/4/4 because no machines actually have that. I'm 99.54% sure IGT won't let you program that paytable. Either use NSUD, or "Airport Dueces" 15/9/4/4 (98.91%). The latter paytable is much more available for multiline.
Wizard
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December 18th, 2018 at 11:29:59 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I wouldn't use 15/10/4/4 because no machines actually have that. I'm 99.54% sure IGT won't let you program that paytable. Either use NSUD, or "Airport Dueces" 15/9/4/4 (98.91%). The latter paytable is much more available for multiline.



Thank you!

Also, I've always been confused what that pay table is called. If I could solicit other opinions, is the pay table mentioned called:

A) Airport Decues
B) Illinois Deuces
C) Ugly Ducks (as in all the way ugly)
D) Other
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
tringlomane
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December 18th, 2018 at 11:45:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank you!

Also, I've always been confused what that pay table is called. If I could solicit other opinions, is the pay table mentioned called:

A) Airport Decues
B) Illinois Deuces
C) Ugly Ducks (as in all the way ugly)
D) Other



Given today's VP environment, I definitely go with either A or B. They both refer to the 98.91% paytable because iirc it began appearing first at McCarran and on Illinois Riverboats. I always say Airport because I'd rather gamble in Vegas instead of Illinois. Lol

Also the most common quarter pay schedule nationwide (as far as I can tell) (25/16/13/4/3/2 = 96.77%) is sometimes referred to as "Colorado Deuces" since it became first noticed in Colorado casinos.
djatc
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December 18th, 2018 at 12:37:30 PM permalink
Most of my video pokering lately has been airport dueces
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
ChumpChange
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December 18th, 2018 at 12:56:16 PM permalink
I haven't looked lately but I doubt there's anything better than "8/5" Jacks or Better within 150 miles of me. That's a 2.7% HA and 2% handpay jackpots subject to tax.
Might even be "6/5" Jacks or Better at the racinos because machines aren't supposed to pay more than 95% back.
AcesAndEights
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December 18th, 2018 at 1:13:25 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

They must have been telling the truth when they said most people would save $24 from the tax cuts. As a group, gamblers have no representation, it makes sense for the politicians to pile on even more nonsense with regards to gambling, so they can shift the money around for their friends and contributors. That's just corrupt politics. Sell the casino stocks short if you have money, this is going to hurt them, I'd guess they're way down already though, but with room to drop more. It's going to be a real habit changer.


I was thinking about forming a PAC to advocate for gamblers, even went so far as to register the domain http://gamblerspac.com/ for a while...I never did anything with it and let it lapse. I don't know anything about starting a PAC or how to get anyone's attention who could actually make a change. Would need some politicians on board I'm assuming to even get noticed.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
DRich
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December 18th, 2018 at 2:29:09 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

I don't know anything about starting a PAC or how to get anyone's attention who could actually make a change. Would need some politicians on board I'm assuming to even get noticed.



It is very simple. Just provide the money and the politicians will show up.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
JimRockford
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December 18th, 2018 at 3:16:48 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

How to Make a Girl Smile
do not go right to the end. You miss the setup


Excellent advice ;-)
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things." -- Isaac Newton
darkoz
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December 18th, 2018 at 4:04:34 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

I was thinking about forming a PAC to advocate for gamblers, even went so far as to register the domain http://gamblerspac.com/ for a while...I never did anything with it and let it lapse. I don't know anything about starting a PAC or how to get anyone's attention who could actually make a change. Would need some politicians on board I'm assuming to even get noticed.



Our very own Pacman
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
CrystalMath
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December 19th, 2018 at 7:08:30 PM permalink
Now that the thread has died down, Iíd like to comment on my post concerning Michael Bluejay.

I think he has a lot of great things to offer, and I realize that heís a very smart guy. Surprisingly, Iíve stumbled across a few of his websites that are not related to gambling. Who knew that two people could have the same love for Eneloop batteries. Iíve been recommending them since I started using them in 2008. Also, Iím a thrift store fan; one time, in Austin, I wanted to find some thrift stores, and his website showed up. I really donít remember what he said, but it seemed dead on. The Goodwill on S. Lamar sucks!

What I donít like is the condescending attitude, and reliance on scholastic achievements that were 20+ years ago. I can see youíre a smart guy, I donít give a rat what you got on your SAT, that you tested out of college English, that your reading scores are off the chart, or that you got an A in financial accounting. This doesnít give you the right to berate people. MB is a bully that nobody confronts, and when things donít go his way, he leaves in a huff, seeking attention.
I heart Crystal Math.
billryan
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December 19th, 2018 at 7:31:03 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

I was thinking about forming a PAC to advocate for gamblers, even went so far as to register the domain http://gamblerspac.com/ for a while...I never did anything with it and let it lapse. I don't know anything about starting a PAC or how to get anyone's attention who could actually make a change. Would need some politicians on board I'm assuming to even get noticed.



That's a good start. Now you need hire some lobbyists and support staff. Maybe GoFundMe.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
GWAE
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December 20th, 2018 at 2:02:01 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Iím certainly no science rocket, but Iíd find it hard to believe theyíd be able to force you to pay full taxes on all w2gís without any deductions. Has anything like that even ever happened? Like, has a company been audited and the IRS is like, ďWell, we donít like the way you keep records, so weíre forcing you to pay taxes on your GROSS not NET incomeĒ? Supposedly you have to go to some crooked ďtax courtĒ anywho, and Iíd think any reasonable person or judge(?) would be like, ďBruh, for real tho? He didnít report the slot machine # nor witnesses with him and you finna make him pay ¢a$h money tax on all them w2g-a-rooskies? Nah man you dumb.Ē

Then again, s*** like this is why some people just say screw it, and donít bother with reporting gambling income. Easier to just play stuff thatíll generate few w2gís, pay the full amount on those, and be done with it (which would be way less in taxes than reporting the entire amount of profit).



That is exactly what they can do. If they don't like your records then that means they think they are fraudulent. If they are fraudulent then they are thrown out. I did read an article where this happened to someone but I cant find it. In that case they threw them out and he owed a ton of taxes. He ended up negotiating with them for a settlement. Yep, the IRS will negotiate even when they think they are right. It's almost like they try to make you owe more than you should so when you negotiate they get what they originally wanted. They should open a car dealership.
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AcesAndEights
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December 20th, 2018 at 5:00:14 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

MB is a bully that nobody confronts, and when things donít go his way, he leaves in a huff, seeking attention.


So you're having a conversation about something, you have done a bunch of research on it, and you post an article with all that research. And yet, questions answered in that article keep coming up. And expressing some frustration that no one has read the article is bullying? I completely disagree. His responses are a little bristly sure, but fall far, FAR short of bullying.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
CrystalMath
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December 20th, 2018 at 5:20:14 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

So you're having a conversation about something, you have done a bunch of research on it, and you post an article with all that research. And yet, questions answered in that article keep coming up. And expressing some frustration that no one has read the article is bullying? I completely disagree. His responses are a little bristly sure, but fall far, FAR short of bullying.



Itís been ongoing for years, not just this time. He believes that he has the definitive answer and that anyone who raises a question canít or hasnít read his article.

When he was a moderator, he would just delete other peoples responses that he didnít like instead of just having an open dialogue.
I heart Crystal Math.
AcesAndEights
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December 20th, 2018 at 5:23:37 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Itís been ongoing for years, not just this time. He believes that he has the definitive answer and that anyone who raises a question canít or hasnít read his article.

When he was a moderator, he would just delete other peoples responses that he didnít like instead of just having an open dialogue.


I see, I don't have as much history interacting with MBJ online. I only vaguely recall when he was a mod around here. So I will decline to comment on that behavior in the past and move on.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Boz
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December 20th, 2018 at 5:41:20 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Itís been ongoing for years, not just this time. He believes that he has the definitive answer and that anyone who raises a question canít or hasnít read his article.

When he was a moderator, he would just delete other peoples responses that he didnít like instead of just having an open dialogue.



Just challenge him on if he really believes the stuff on his websites or if itís an act to build traffic.

That will get him going.

Sometimes itís easy to see those who most promote tolerance are the least tolerant of those who donít share their beliefs. And then the insults start flowing freely about ignorance and education.

And I will say while I havenít had much interaction with CM, itís obvious he is an even tempered long term poster who could have been voted Most Likely to never get suspended.
Last edited by: Boz on Dec 20, 2018
Wizard
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December 20th, 2018 at 6:32:01 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

MB is a bully ...



Personal insult, again. Let's make it seven days this time.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
7craps
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December 20th, 2018 at 10:33:59 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Itís been ongoing for years, not just this time.

so
Quote: CrystalMath

He believes that he has the definitive answer and that anyone who raises a question canít or hasnít read his article.

so

Quote: CrystalMath

When he was a moderator, he would just delete other people's responses that he didnít like instead of just having an open dialogue.

so

Thumper
"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all"




I took a communication 101 class years ago and a basic rule of communication
was when you wanted to say something 'not nice' to a person, you do so
but follow right with something nice to that same person. and use 'thank you'
because (words can and do hurt others, so why hurt others)

example:
"7Craps, you can be so rude to others and you really R a bully"
think, think, think
"but you do make me smile at times when I am feeling a little blue, thank you"

now I feel so much better
thank you

"President Trump, build that damn wall. You have the money yourself for it. And while you are at it clean up the US tax code. make it real simple and fair!"
think, think, think
"And you do have a nice smile when you play golf. Thank you"
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
RS
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December 20th, 2018 at 11:42:41 AM permalink
Quote: 7craps

so
so

so

Thumper
"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all"




I took a communication 101 class years ago and a basic rule of communication
was when you wanted to say something 'not nice' to a person, you do so
but follow right with something nice to that same person. and use 'thank you'
because (words can and do hurt others, so why hurt others)

example:
"7Craps, you can be so rude to others and you really R a bully"
think, think, think
"but you do make me smile at times when I am feeling a little blue, thank you"

now I feel so much better
thank you

"President Trump, build that damn wall. You have the money yourself for it. And while you are at it clean up the US tax code. make it real simple and fair!"
think, think, think
"And you do have a nice smile when you play golf. Thank you"


Donít take this as an insult, but are you MustangSally?
7craps
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December 20th, 2018 at 11:52:19 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Donít take this as an insult, but are you MustangSally?

I am not.
wish I had her money. I would give her mine as trade.
I think she sounds more like me (her written words)
I am not that much into youtube but found that very entertaining.

Enjoy
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
GWAE
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December 20th, 2018 at 12:59:54 PM permalink
If people get a lot less back in taxes this year will it cause a recession? If people are normally getting 5k back and expect it yearly then what happens when they unexpectedly get 1500 back? I can see that being a major issue.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
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