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ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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December 14th, 2018 at 2:34:28 PM permalink
Harry Reid would have you buy casino chips when the GOP defaults on the federal debt.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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RogerKintodiousgambitmichael99000djatc
December 14th, 2018 at 2:49:22 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

This is sick. You earn money at the day job: you pay some tax - that's sad but makes sense.
Casinos make a profit from you (plural) and presumably pay Corporation Tax on those profits.



I agree. I'm not against paying taxes, but am against the complexity of it all, unfairness, and regressive nature where often the middle class pay a higher percentage than the top 1%.

I'd prefer to see a system based on taxing consumption rather than creation.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
unJon
unJon
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MichaelBluejay
December 14th, 2018 at 3:03:32 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I agree. I'm not against paying taxes, but am against the complexity of it all, unfairness, and regressive nature where often the middle class pay a higher percentage than the top 1%.

I'd prefer to see a system based on taxing consumption rather than creation.

Thereís an inconsistency there. A consumption tax would result in the middle class paying an even higher percentage than the top 1% vs today.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
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December 14th, 2018 at 3:28:15 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm surprised the increase in the standard deduction hasn't made bigger news in the video poker community. I will take some blame for that, as I'm supposed to be on top of such things.....

I think you may start seeing news stories about it towards tax time. A lot of these ploppies who get $1500 jackpots and then throw it right back in are going to realize they are getting no benefit from the new tax law. Iím surprised I havenít heard about casinos lobbying to get tax laws changed. You think they would, especially by trying to get the $1200 threshold raised.

I have a lot of w2gís this year and I am worried. I donít mind paying taxes on what I make but I shouldnít be penalized by paying tax on money I didnít make. I will file as a professional this year so I think Iíll be ok.

Another issue is I have w2gís in at least 7 different states and Iím worried how that is all going to work out. Last year I used turbo tax and they wanted me to pay $400 in tax to another state on a single $1250 w2g because they said I should also pay tax to the other state on a separate business that I pay tax to in my home state.

The other thing never mentioned is letís say you are playing $50 video poker. A 4oak pays $1250. They give you a w2g that says you made $1250. The spin cost $50. Right off the bat you didnít even make $1250.

But donít worry Iím sure this new Congress will be quick to fix all of this just as soon as they get done investigating Trump for the next 2 years.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 14th, 2018 at 3:30:18 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE


I do wonder if you could fight a w2g saying the session resulted in a zero gain, even though you have a w2g. In that case your agi would not be affected. My guess is the IRs employee would not understand the difference and it wouldn't matter.



my experience with asserting one's rights with the IRS, though limited, is not good. Pretty soon it is common that a regular guy realizes "hey I better get a lawyer if I'm really going to prevail here, or just have a chance. "

I have had the experience of having my assertions dismissed rudely
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: ďThanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!Ē She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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December 14th, 2018 at 3:37:09 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Let's look at an example.....If my understanding is correct, he would have to pay taxes on $100,000 in income. Whether he itemizes or not, he deducts the same $12,000 from $112,000 in AGI. The situation for Mary is exactly the same, except she didn't gamble at all. She uses the standard deduction and pays income on $88,000. So, John actually lost $20,000 gambling and ends up paying 24%*$12,000 = $2,880 more in taxes than Mary....Does that sound fair?

Just answer me this: Did you actually read the article? Because I address that fairness issue head-on.

Quote: GWAE

I do wonder if you could fight a w2g saying the session resulted in a zero gain, even though you have a w2g.

So can I guess that you didn't read the article either? You generally don't have to "fight" a W-2G because you're not supposed to enter W-2G amounts as income in the first place. The only time you'd have a problem is with an inexperienced auditor, in which case you simply quote the IRS rules to them (handily referenced in my article). That year that I got at least $6000 in W-2Gs I reported zero gambling income (because I didn't have any winnings sessions), and the IRS never said a peep.
Last edited by: MichaelBluejay on Sep 10, 2019
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
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RogerKintLottoballstringlomane
December 14th, 2018 at 8:16:01 PM permalink
Congrats on your SAT. I guess those skills donít help you not be a prick.
I heart Crystal Math.
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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December 14th, 2018 at 8:56:50 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

Congrats on your SAT. I guess those skills donít help you not be a prick.

The above post is exactly why I don't frequent this forum much.
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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odiousgambit
December 14th, 2018 at 9:32:36 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

You generally don't have to "fight" a W-2G because you're not supposed to enter W-2G amounts as income in the first place.

this does not match what I have done with online filing since 2008. (using online software)
The last year I received a w2g was in 2016, and all w2Gs added up and were placed on line 21 and nothing I could do to stop it.

well, that means turbo tax has been doing this wrong (by your explanation)
dating back for me from 2016 to 2008. (when I retired from full-time work)
some years they called it a different name (other income statement) as did a few other companies,
but same result.

all w2gs got added to form 1040 line 21
nothing I could do to stop it, they did it automatically
all my w2gs were entered and were placed on Other Income Statement


all my w2gs were entered and were placed on form 1040 line 21


that $6k was rounded up, IIRC

watch out for software that adds all w2gs and places that onto line 21
interesting thought
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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December 15th, 2018 at 2:49:50 AM permalink
Quote: 7craps

watch out for software that adds all w2gs and places that onto line 21
interesting thought

How interesting would it be for Turbotax to change that and have zillions of angry customers who were contacted by the IRS, questioning their returns?


I did read Bluejay's article once more, having read it before. Very informative, thank you - I can find no real errors, so I don't think there is any need to be defensive. If a poster still wants to complain about the IRS it doesn't mean there is something wrong with the article. 


The way I view it is this: the IRS has been forced by some pushback, evidently, to agree that sessions are what matter, not the moment in the session when a player won big. However, we are hearing from posters that they are still addicted to using the W2g as a hammer, making it a nightmare for the online software people for instance - it seems they know how 'the real IRS' wants the taxes done. If Turbotax trembles, are the rest of us supposed to scoff? 


For some devilish advocacy, here is the other perspective: it is a reasonable assumption that someone receiving a W2g might have had a winning session. Surely it is time to question it when someone wins really big, say upper 5 figures, and if I were in the tax collector's shoes I too would be suspicious about a claim that the session was a loser. Maybe the year was a loser and the filer has just done his taxes wrong, or maybe the filer was trying to get away with some real BS. I'd come down hard on providing the supporting evidence too. It'd be my job to do that even if I think that the year as a whole is what should be considered as gambling income in tax law [which I do think, plus I think carry-over losses should kick in too]


What about a $1200 W2? It's occurred to them I'm sure that filers who don't report any win at all, not a few hundred at least, may, repeat, *may*, just have decided to ignore the W2, or forgotten about it.  Perhaps every time it is only $1200, your word is good enough, with escalating risk as the amounts go up. 


Quote: MichaelBluejay

That year that I got at least $6000 in W-2Gs I reported zero gambling income (because I didn't have any winnings sessions), and the IRS never said a peep.

Well, don't take this personally, but that's enough to raise eyebrows, is it not? Was that five $1200 W2s? All five times [fewer is worse] you lost it all back during the same session? Not once it wasn't merely whittled down, but always a wipeout? I think you have to admit you risked a 'peep', though we aren't talking $38,000 either. Were you prepared with your stack of evidence, your diary etc? Never mind that, but should your article put more emphasis on just what a player might be getting himself into? That is all I would pick on. 


Speaking for myself, the risk of contact from the IRS is a big deal. YMMV, but me and, it seems, the online tax services have plenty of respect for just how obstinate these people can be.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: ďThanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!Ē She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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