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7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 8:11:01 AM permalink
Quote: sltploppy

My experience with tax filing software (Turbotax) is consistent with what 7craps has outlined. It has me enter each W2G individually which it then sums up into a total that it places on line 21 of Form 1040.

we ain't the only ones. someone needs to get a w2g and take the irs to court and get a ruling. enough is enough

Quote: sltploppy

I also had an experience with my 2016 return where I missed entering a few W2G's and late in 2017 received a collections letter from the IRS demanding payment for an additional tax liability attributable to those W2G's. I had to file an amended return to account for the missing W2G's and then increasing my loss offset in order to remove the liability (I was a net loser for the year),

My friend in CA got hit hard one year, had to look it up. in 2015.
He forgot to give his wife a w2g that he got while at an Indian casino by himself. (??? forgot??? LOL)

An irs letter the next year jogged his memory and he showed it to me. It was really rude and threatening, IMHO.

The w2g he failed to list on his taxes was for $1250. that is it!

he ended up paying almost $3000 because of his error NOT to show he got it.
LOL to this day.
His wife knows all about keeping receipts and getting them to the tax person each year. My friend TOTALLY blew it and I asked him why he did not file an amended tax form.
He did not want any more to do with the IRS, payed them OFF and that is with mattered to him at the time.
LOL
IRS

I say using turbo tax and other online tax software that I have used, turbo tax for a few years was not free if you had a w2g to file, and I only use free software to file these days.

I saw MB article may be correct but really the IRS needs to be taken to court on this for a ruling placed in stone.
no more of this he said, he said, she does it this way, the IRS really does not say how to do it on one important form, the w2g!

I now collect 1099-MISC from casinos.
makes me feel way better when they call my name as a WINNER
no w2g playing Video Poker for 25 cent denom either.

but when I get my next one - w2g - it goes on line 21, 1040 form, exactly what it says to do!
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 8:16:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I have heard many stories like this. If it important to the filer to have a clean looking return that won't get audited, then the sum of "gambling winnings" on line 21 should be equal or greater than the sum of your W2G's.

i say, use the L21 worksheet places like turbotax uses. can't go wrong with it.

you know filing married pays a 'marriage penalty' that is more than what it would be being single and filing both as single. that was something changed a few years ago, but got lost.
marriage tax penalty
IRS w2g tax penalty
resort fee tax penalty
The Beatles had a song Taxman in the 1960s
nothing is better, tax on nothing is 0
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
djatc
djatc
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
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RogerKint
December 15th, 2018 at 8:49:36 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'd prefer to see a system based on taxing consumption rather than creation.



CAN YOU SAY THIS LOUDER FOR THOSE IN THE BACK
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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December 15th, 2018 at 8:59:39 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

You should not get a single CTR filed on you for that. Only buy ins or cashouts over $10k get a CTR.



I found a penny on the floor. I'd better not put that on the cage desk.

If I bought in for $5000, and won $5010, and took $10,010 chips to the cage, unless they are going to wire that amount (or a sub-amount) straight to my bank, they will fill out a CTR and give me the cash.
Edit: I've been advised casinos don't wire money back into your bank account, but you can take a check, if it's over the casino's accepted minimums, which could exceed $10,000 anyway. Also, some casinos cages will check your buy-in at the table if you used a Player's Card and deduct that from your cash-out so you don't trigger a CTR. They may also limit any checks they write to you to an amount of your winnings that excludes your table buy-in. (I would expect those kinds of check amounts to be some kind of receipt of session winnings if you're keeping track.)

I've been reading a thread about somebody trying to buy a car on Craigslist for $10K cash and the bank won't let him have the money. Other posters were saying many banks and bank branches don't even have $10K to give you, and you have to give a few days notice before you pick up your large amount. But the posters said the $10K amount was invoking "terror" & "Homeland Security" in the bank staff ramblings about why they won't pay you today.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Dec 15, 2018
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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December 15th, 2018 at 9:12:40 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I found a penny on the floor. I'd better not put that on the cage desk.



Why would you cash in a penny? It is already currency. :)

I understand your point about the taxes being unfair.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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MichaelBluejayLottoballs
December 15th, 2018 at 9:55:10 AM permalink
There was a recent GWAE with tax man Russell Fox that addressed this exact issue, line 21 being less than the sum of W-2Gs due to session accounting. I can't seem to find the episode (I skimmed the 2 most recent episodes with him). I will keep looking and if I can find it, will post a link.

Russell explains it exactly like Michael Bluejay - essentially most front line IRS employees have no idea how their own guidelines have been written, and you will likely be contacted by the IRS if you follow session accounting and your total win is less than your W-2G total.

However, you will win on this count if you are persistent (and have the correct documentation in the form of a contemporaneous gambling journal). You just have to keep pushing back until you get to the IRS employee who knows what TF they are doing. He also mentions that it can be a good idea to include a statement with your return, noting that you have used session accounting (including references to the appropriate IRS publications) and that is why your number doesn't match the W-2G number.

Obviously this is a burden and a PITA. So depending on the numbers in play for you personally, it may not be worth your time and suffering to claim a smaller number based on your journal.

It is frustrating that Turbo Tax can't handle this correctly. I'm not really surprised though. If most of the IRS people don't even know how to do it correctly, not surprising that a 3rd party software and services company can't get it right.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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Lottoballs
December 15th, 2018 at 10:24:01 AM permalink
Regarding TurboTax, I think they are right to ask their users for a sum of the W2Gs if their goal is to minimize the chance their customers will get an audit, which I think it should be.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:32:15 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

There was a recent GWAE with tax man Russell Fox that addressed this exact issue, line 21 being less than the sum of W-2Gs due to session accounting.

how about a look at the 2018 w2g

"Instructions to Winner
Box 1. The payer must furnish a Form W-2G to you if you
receive:
1. $1,200 or more in gambling winnings from bingo or slot
machines;
2. $1,500 or more in winnings (reduced by the wager) from
keno;
3. More than $5,000 in winnings (reduced by the wager or
buy-in) from a poker tournament;
4. $600 or more in gambling winnings (except winnings from
bingo, keno, slot machines, and poker tournaments) and the
payout is at least 300 times the amount of the wager; or
5. Any other gambling winnings subject to federal income
tax withholding.
Generally, report all gambling winnings on the “Other
income” line of Form 1040.
You can deduct gambling losses
as an itemized deduction, but you cannot deduct more than
your winnings. Keep an accurate record of your winnings and
losses, and be able to prove those amounts with receipts,
tickets, statements, or similar items that you have saved. For
additional information, see Pub. 529, Miscellaneous
Deductions, and Pub. 525, Taxable and Nontaxable Income."

just skips the part about line 21 but beats around it, calls it something else instead of Line 21 form 1040. LOL

but wants one to do more reading and more reading and more reading, LOL, great stuff
he said do this,
no they do not do it right, she says do this and this and try to not make mistakes,
not right, not right, do it this way
IRS "LOL"

Quote: AcesAndEights

It is frustrating that Turbo Tax can't handle this correctly. I'm not really surprised though. If most of the IRS people don't even know how to do it correctly, not surprising that a 3rd party software and services company can't get it right.

turbotax gets a lot right where the irs gets it wrong.
over 50% of irs advice is wrong. TT is better than that.

I just emailed them (TT) and want to see what they have to say about this.
I don't really care but know it will really piss off some, like God and Sally comes to mind.

I doubt they (TT) are even interested as gambling is yuk to most.
I used Quickbooks (Intuit) way back in 1991 with my auto repair business, that is how I found TurboTax and all their software had some problems I found and had to do something else (just used Excel) as they (TT) were clueless. that was then, who knows about now?
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:37:27 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Regarding TurboTax, I think they are right to ask their users for a sum of the W2Gs if their goal is to minimize the chance their customers will get an audit, which I think it should be.

yes, that is something new they now do due to many questions about it. Having 117 w2gs to enter one-by-one used to BE a ROYAL pain. now they say just one and use whatever on it. make sure it all adds up.

In their instructions, NOTHING about sessions.
Line 21 other income worksheet must equal the sum of all w2gs turned into the IRS.
Turbo tax instructions now. (might change come Jan 2019)

IRS.
try understanding all they say about the issue.
should be on the w2g, all the rules. look nowhere else.
LOL
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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December 15th, 2018 at 10:52:22 AM permalink
Quote: WangSanJose

Any payout over $1200 is reported to the IRS.
Due to tax obligation, does video poker have worse payout than expected, especially if you play larger denomination?

yes NO yes

Any payout of $1200 or more is reported to the IRS.

especially for a US tax filer using 1040ez, not the long form 1040.
could be (keep it fair) bumped up into a higher tax bracket.
Table 1. Tax Brackets and Rates, 2019
RateFor Unmarried Individuals, Taxable Income OverFor Married Individuals Filing Joint Returns, Taxable Income OverFor Heads of Households, Taxable Income Over
10%$0$0$0
12%$9,700$19,400$13,850
22%$39,475$78,950$52,850
24%$84,200$168,400$84,200
32%$160,725$321,450$160,700
35%$204,100$408,200$204,100
37%$510,300$612,350$510,300

https://taxfoundation.org/2019-tax-brackets
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)

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