Honest opinion on Bob Dancer?

I enjoy his show, Gambling with an Edge even after Mr. Shackleford's departure and I sometimes read his columns on LVA. I have nothing against Bob, and I don't know him other than from his podcast and his columns. I think he's a decent person.

Having said that, does anyone here know him in real life? At least 1/3 of his columns are about how someone he knows/met is not smart enough to play video poker for living. He seems to be very proud of himself that he doesn't have a normal job(, which is cool, but I don't know if it's really better or worse than having a real job).

Quote: debitncredit

I enjoy his show, Gambling with an Edge even after Mr. Shackleford's departure and I sometimes read his columns on LVA. I have nothing against Bob, and I don't know him other than from his podcast and his columns. I think he's a decent person.

Having said that, does anyone here know him in real life? At least 1/3 of his columns are about how someone he knows/met is not smart enough to play video poker for living. He seems to be very proud of himself that he doesn't have a normal job(, which is cool, but I don't know if it's really better or worse than having a real job).

I think Munchkin makes the show,Bob always makes corny jokes in the middle of a discussion.

He also constantly mentions how a given play is beneath his bankroll, but he's mentioning it for the benefit of his lesser rolled readers. Very magnanimous of him.

I've attended his classes. In my opinion, he is very knowledgeable and genuinely interested in helping people to improve their game.
If there are more skilled players that spend so much of their time helping newcomers, I've yet to meet them.
Outside of one poster on a blackjack forum years ago, Bob has been the most helpful person in advancing my prospective career, such as it is.

Quote: billryan

I've attended his classes. In my opinion, he is very knowledgeable and genuinely interested in helping people to improve their game.
If there are more skilled players that spend so much of their time helping newcomers, I've yet to meet them.
Outside of one poster on a blackjack forum years ago, Bob has been the most helpful person in advancing my prospective career, such as it is.

Right. I think he's a decent guy. As far as his classes, I wonder if he'd still do it if South Point doesn't let him play. It sounds like Michael Gaughan basically thinks of him as an "employee." Bob teaches classes and South Point lets him grind it out on their VP machines and make a living. It's probably better from South Point's point of view, as he's not getting any benefits like dental or 401k.

I've heard many things about Bob Dancer, most are on the opposite spectrum of what people are saying here.

Quote: RS

I've heard many things about Bob Dancer, most are on the opposite spectrum of what people are saying here.

RS. Do share!

Not the nicest person- he also is possibly the person who blew out the borgata play. South pointe tolerates his play...
he works on the dark side

Do you mean the Revel play?

Yea. Was reading an article about borgata execuTives at the same time- my bad

I spent some time with him and we had a meal together. He was pleasant and professional.

Not the first time Bob Dancer has been discussed here.

see: Bob Dancer poll

I'd like to remind everybody that Bob is a member of the forum and thus has personal insult protection.

Mike -

I don't think any of the comments here are meant to be insults. Just opinions.

For example, my opinion is based entirely on the podcast: would it be an insult to say he talks about his sex life too much? What about saying that when he does so, it makes him creepy. Is that insulting?

For the record, not as creepy as Bill Cosby or Michael Jackson, but still creepy.

Does he really read comments about him here? Good. Maybe he'll take these comments at face value. Maybe not.

Frankly, I suspect not. Not because these are not the first time these types of comments appeared here resulting in no change, but because other comments which are NOT personal attacks also resulted in no change.

I'm referring to the comments from me as well as other members, about the podcast's crappy audio quality. Does he not care? Some episodes are so bad they are unlistenable. And his podcast is supposed to be radio quality!

Some of the podcasts I subscribe to are recorded in a living room. And their quality far exceeds that of the studio produced GWAE. If I say that Bob is too lazy to listen to his own show and fix it, is that an insult? Would it be enough of an insult to get him off his lazy ass and do something about it? I kinda hope so...


No insult intended but fix the damn audio Bob!!! And stop telling us how much you get laid. (Eww, ick...)

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Mike -

No insult intended but fix the damn audio Bob!!! And stop telling us how much you get laid. (Eww, ick...)

Yea, if it was EvenBob, it would be more interesting.

Quote: Wizard

I'd like to remind everybody that Bob is a member of the forum and thus has personal insult protection.

then lets talk about El Presidente Trump.
or How about Rob Singer? :)

Q:

If someone who is the target of many insults on this board, say President-elect Donald Trump, decided to become a member of this board, would that membership insulate him or her from any future insults?

Have the mods / owners ever faced such a situation where a "target" of insult has joined, or tried to join, the board?

How would the mods react if Trump did try to join, for whatever reason: would / could membership be denied?

Why / why not?

I think we would be allowed to attack the person's statements and actions without insulting him personally. I'd imagine saying trump was in way over his head and was race baiting would be permissible, while calling him an orange ape would not.
If Rob singer joined he'd still be a fraud and would rightfully get called out.

Quote: MrV

Q:

If someone who is the target of many insults on this board, say President-elect Donald Trump, decided to become a member of this board, would that membership insulate him or her from any future insults?

Wait, you think Trump would actually obey the insult rule himself?

Rob Singer was a member here but was banned. So you can say whatever you want about him.

With Bob Dancer, who is a member here in good standing, I think you'd have to write things that are not insulting. I suppose you could say all the good stuff about him, but wouldn't be allowed to say any of the bad stuff about him.

Perhaps a bit more latitude should be granted re: criticism if the member being criticized is a public figure?

Just as in the law, actual malice must be proven in a defamation claim against a public figure.

Quote: MrV

Perhaps a bit more latitude should be granted re: criticism if the member being criticized is a public figure?

Just as in the law, actual malice must be proven in a defamation claim against a public figure.

Ask Kewlj how that worked out for him...

I think I can say bad things about a person or his work without it rising to a personal insult.

Quote: MrV

How would the mods react if Trump did try to join, for whatever reason: would / could membership be denied?

If Trump joined, then he would be enjoy insult protection from personal insults after the time he joined. It is also an unwritten policy you have to be somewhat active. You can't just join for the protection and never contribute anything.

I listen to the podcast periodically and find most episodes interesting. I'd like to meet Mr. Dancer and decide for myself. Maybe I will someday.

The thread seems to have run its course --- so I thought I’d comment. I’m definitely NOT going to comment on every little thing that I believe is insulting. I learned long ago on vpFREE that where there are several people who believe I’m not a particularly good guy, whatever defense I put up is immediately attacked three or four times --- and the attacks keep coming. A response that would take me a half-hour to compose, like this one, could easily generate five or ten more attacks. It’s a safe bet that this will be my last post in this thread --- no matter how many posts come after mine.

In general it’s like trying to convince Democrats that Trump is qualified to be president --- or, vice versa, trying to convince Republicans that Hillary was by far the more truthful candidate during the election. Many people have their minds made up and arguing with them is wasting your breath. So by and large, I let negative comments go as the lesser of evils.

That said, there were some points in the thread that should be clarified.

On the radio show, Richard is the star in my opinion. I LOVE listening to his stories and have learned a lot from him. All of us are fortunate he likes doing this radio show. Yes I crack jokes. Some people have said that keeps it interesting. Others have said they don’t like it. You can’t please everybody.

On the audio quality, yes we’ve had problems. It’s a progressive thing and we’ve been trying to get it better --- one piece of equipment at a time. Basically Richard --- with his background of being a movie producer --- has taken the lead in figuring out what equipment we should get. Beginning on the November 10 episode, we’ve been using a new mixer. We think the quality is much better now. If you still think it’s bad, by all means speak up. (I don’t even know the purpose of a mixer. Sorry. Not my thing.)

I actually don’t remember many episodes where I spoke about my sex life. (There was one about playing backgammon with a woman who always distracted the guys by going braless along with very low cut blouses --- but that’s the only time I remember. I was probably 27 years old when that happened --- and I still think it’s a good story. Now I’m a few months shy of 70 years old --- and nobody wants to hear about geriatric sex).

About the South Point. Yes, they are a sponsor of the radio show and they allow me to teach classes and play there. I have lunch with Michael Gaughan every six months or so. If they cut me off as a player, most likely they wouldn’t want to be a sponsor or allow me to play. In no way am I an employee there.
If you listened to the conversations I had with Gaughan, you wouldn’t find what I tell him anti-player or me being on the dark side. Since by agreement I can’t tell you exactly what’s been said --- many players choose to believe the worst. Oh well. Comes with the territory. I am definitely NOT happy with the number of players who’ve been restricted there. I’ve mentioned it to him a few times --- but continuing to bring it up would not change how he believes things should be done and would likely end my relationship with him. So, I don’t bring it up any more. As I get older, I try to learn to pick my battles.

I will talk about whatever promotion the South Point is offering. It’s part of the deal of them being the main sponsor. (I did the same when the Palms was a sponsor). I do remember several times saying a promotion there was geared for low rollers. (I’ve played some of them even though I’d prefer they were bigger.) Criticize that if you like, but it’s the price for having sponsors.

Insofar as the subject matter of my columns --- there is a range of topics I write about. Some columns are technical --- many aren’t. I’ve been writing weekly columns for 20 years and have exhausted the “easy pickings” topic-wise. So often I’ll use recent examples of something some player did or said that wasn’t very smart gambling-wise and “teach a lesson.” Many of these are beginner-level lessons and some of you are beyond that level. Good for you! But there are new readers all the time and so some beginner lessons are necessary. And many readers need reminders.

I remember getting called in by the president of Station Casinos, Steve Cavallaro, objecting to me writing somewhere that Station Casinos has restricted more players
than the rest of the local casinos put together. He wanted to make a deal where I wouldn’t say things like that. He offered to let me teach classes there. I said fine. Let me play with full benefits and I’ll teach classes. I’ll argue that if it’s good enough for me to play, it’s good enough for you (i.e. the class attendees) to consider playing there too.

Cavallaro wanted no part of that. I told him that me standing up in front of a class and telling folks that “Stations won’t let me play, but if you are dumb enough or unsuccessful enough maybe they’ll let you play” wouldn’t lead to discussions that would do him any good. So I’m still restricted at Red Rock Resorts, and I still write what I want about them.

(Yes there are some strong players at various Station Casinos who have found ways to get a positive game while still remaining under their radar --- but I wasn’t going to say that to Cavallaro. For most players, if Station Casinos allows you to play video poker, you aren’t very good at the game.)

Sometimes people suggest topics to write about --- and sometimes I take them up on it. I very much appreciate such suggestions. If I knew more about taxes, I’d write about that. But that’s not my expertise. Spending hundreds of hours each year learning all the ins and outs of the tax code in various jurisdictions so I can create a few columns doesn’t strike me as a good use of my time.

When I get hostile suggestions on what to write about I generally ignore those. I do not see it as my job to answer every question posed. There are many secrets I keep --- while at the same time sharing more useful information with wannabe successful video poker players than any other knowledgeable player. Some people have waited for years for me to answer their question --- and they still have another 30 years to go!

Bob -


Thanks for your candor, and humility in saying that Richard is the star.


Regarding the audio: since I'm the one who mentions it most, I'd like to respond.

There are two audio problems:

1- Telephone/Skype participants tend to have bad sound quality. Not sure how to fix that.

2- The volume levels are not consistent. This is the purpose of a mixer, butit only works when a sound engineer is monitoring the show and adjusting the input levels so the output is uniform. But there are also methods of automating this.

Frankly, a salesperson at your local Guitar Center might be able to help you with both of these issues.



I also complained about your talking about your sex life. I think you do it more often than you're aware.



Otherwise, it's a fine show and keep up the good work.

:)

Bob, you have increased my ability to play and how I play immensely. I thank you for that, and therefore you are a good person in my book. I think a lot of the hatred you see is jealousy on the part of the people who are spewing it... you've been able to turn a profit at it.. and they can't.

Carry on!

Disclosure: I am a former AP who went back to work on the casino side, because I make a lot more $ doing so. Don't worry, I don't work in operations and don't work in NV. Even if i did, I'm not in the business of outing players.

This is a little complicated...Richard is a world class AP. Bob is not. But because of how profitable video poker was for many years, Bob (and others) could fly under the radar, well, there was no radar to begin with. I'm not trying to insult Bob here, but back in the day, you didn't need very much AP skill to be successful at machines.

I like Richard a lot. Bob, well, is Bob. It's commonly thought in the LV VP community (which I am not a part of) that Bob's deal was to be the only VP player, not the best one. I can't say I disagree with that analysis.

I started off with blackjack, then when it dawned on me how much more money you could make with virtually no heat, I switched over to VP. Yes, I still dabbled with BJ. And the BJ training helped, because I'm still good pretty much everywhere, with an exception or two. The joint gets too douchey, I just take the business somewhere else. A couple of places I ran too good and got tossed for repetitive winning, but man, it's tough to blow a 4% edge, which is where one of the places I got tossed offered. Not that long ago either.

VP was so strong, especially in the early to late 90s, hell, even as late as 2005, that even an AP with less talent than a chimpanzee could find $150K on the floor playing in local LV casinos without that much effort, or even that much bankroll. Yes, that much, seriously. VP was so good there were many plays where you could theoretically never hit a royal ever and still have significant +EV. I wish my ego would have let me figured that out sooner, because all I saw were disgusting coin hustlers handling even more disgusting coins. When I played BJ, it was usually with purple and golden colored chips.

I think the problem I and others have with Bob is that he disseminates a lot of valuable information. He was like the Stanford Wong of VP, except Wong did a lot more damage. I mean, I was already playing Halves when Professional Blackjack came out. Stanford did more to wise up the pit than Bill Zender could ever dream of doing. I don't understand why Bob feels the need to validate himself like that, certainly he's won millions over the years.

See, there's a reason why the guys who are VP of Tables make a lot more than their Slot Ops counterparts. Especially at local LV casinos, where the pay scale is a lot lower.

Bob gets a lot of blame for "killing" VP in Vegas. As much as I would like to concur, the reality is once the economy went into the toilet in 2007, it was just a matter of time before VP would be taken a closer look at. If anything, what's happened is that the Slot Department has gone from being totally somnolent, because the joint is making money, to accusing anyone who hit a dollar royal and up of being APs with no statistical justification whatsoever. It's crazy, yes, but remember, it was crazy the other way for the longest time, and in the AP business, you have to take the bitter with the sweet. But Bob's musings certainly didn't help. VP became a political football, a method of securing employment for slot personnel in perhaps the worst economy since the Great Depression. Look...if a game pays 99.54% and you're holding 1% what should your theo be? You have years and years of data on so many accounts, the win loss and everything. It doesn't take a genus to determine who is profitable and who isn't.

But to be fair to Bob, being an AP is not a team effort, nor is it a zero sum game. If Bob's column could make money for him elsewhere, more power to him. But, the rest of the community certainly can reserve the right not to like it.

Finally look at what types of articles Bob has written in recent years. It's indicative of the sea change how video poker is viewed by many a casino or slot director (most of whom still don't have the third grade math skills to set the floor properly, but it doesn't seem to matter).

I'm not a fan of Bob, but he's 72 or something, he's made his money, dude has to have something to do in retirement lol. I have no time nor the energy nor desire to hate anyone these days. There's a guy in his late 70s still playing what's left, there's a bartop progressive in town that's still very good. Please, when I'm 78 and still have to play machines to eat, just shoot me instead.

Trust me on this, VP is pretty much over, at least for anything making more than $15/hour. There's a lot of denial in LV.

And I would play Stations without the card, BTW. They don't need to know you play FPDW. Play anything else with the card but that.

Based on all his posts here, and the podcast, I think he is genuinely a nice guy.

But I see how his writing style seems a bit braggadocious. I had to laugh a bit when I read on his back cover that he made 1m playing VP "while driving a 6 year old car!!".

A 6 year old car is brand new for me!!

Not sure why people say things are over-
Look and work harder. Stuff is still around

Et are you the poster who used to post as Etfan on other sites?

Quote: ET

Trust me on this, VP is pretty much over, at least for anything making more than $15/hour. There's a lot of denial in LV.

And I would play Stations without the card, BTW. They don't need to know you play FPDW. Play anything else with the card but that.

I agree with your post. I know this millionaire AP in Vegas named ET... not sure if your him. Last time I seen him was at the Plaza on tax day when he had all the machines locked up near the players club with 4 babies all around.

Anyways... recently there was this post from a guy working surveillance that said winning APs don't have to worry cause they don't matter so I still have that to grasp on!

He had them all locked up??? Funny I didn't see that

Opportunist extraordinaire

I don't know Bob. I've read his book, which reveals him to be good at math.

I think on some days, I'm nice. Other days, not so nice.

So, am I nice guy, or a jerk? I'm a little of both. I suspect we all are to one degree or another.
I just wish I'd read his book 20 years ago - but I don't think it was written then.

I also wish hotel rooms and buffets could be exchanged for cash value. But, I sure won't hold my breath.

Might be interesting to find a casino that does NO comps at all. No slot hosts. Just a higher percentage on the pay table.

The last idea would go out of business in minutes because most poppies don't care about paybakc

Quote: ukaserex

I also wish hotel rooms and buffets could be exchanged for cash value. But, I sure won't hold my breath

You need to learn how to sell your comp for cash. Many ways to do it. Sell at smaller amounts. Be very careful so you don't get caught. One of the best ways is to get an employee like a server or cashier on your side. It isn't hard but you have to dribble it out slowly to avoid detection. The best way is to sell it to family and friends.

10 packs of cigs equal 50 bucks... is just one way. Buffets are good. Think about places that give you 4x point discount for top card. Now you just tripled your cash back cause you have to sell at a slight loss most of the times. Good business to give the guy paying cash for food a discount.

Quote: Wizardofnothing

He had them all locked up??? Funny I didn't see that

I don't see your point? You agree he was there on tax day/night and you agree he had a machine locked up? Why do you always insist on antagonizing me 😄? I bet your the kinda guy who wouldn't have the common courtesy to give a reach around... I'll be watching you!

Quote: ukaserex

Might be interesting to find a casino that does NO comps at all.

We have some of those on the East Coast! Unfortunately, bad pay tables too.

Its called Dotty's.

Ok they comp drinks and send some mail, but you get the point.

#1 bob dancer is an alias. I have followed and brought some of the strategy material he admitted it in earl writing. Another poster gave last name Qer??? Don’t know why he remains an alias. He is now c/o on LVA of having problems finding machines comps and mailing to support his gaming profession. He seems to feel the casinos owe him a living. My opinion is he basically has destroyed good video poker for all of us. He has bragged in past of using teams to hog the good vp machines. He brags of the 400k Royal his wife hit on a 100 dollar JOB I don’t know anything bad about him but I feel some of his use of comps is ? I one article he brags of getting cases of good wine for a comp and then reselling it. Nothing illegal but I think I would share with family. He does seem impressed with himself. As you know gamblers are like fisherman they are notorious liars. I doubt many of claims. Also he is in business and selling materials cards cd strategy programs thus a reason to stay positive about vp It seems all useless now as the full pay machines in Vegas are are now declining almost monthly If anyone knows his real name be kind enough to post it

The information you seek is already out there and should only be considered lazy on your end to not have that by now. Google it if it means that much to you.

Gee how lazy of me. I have several times with no results. If results are out there then where. I was responding to ( does anyone know bob dancer) since bob dancer does not exist I thought comment appropriate

Quote: Scubadiver

Gee how lazy of me. I have several times with no results. If results are out there then where. I was responding to ( does anyone know bob dancer) since bob dancer does not exist I thought comment appropriate

Bob Dancer is a member here

It is against the rules of this forum to list his real name here

regardless of whether it can be located by other means

Quote: darkoz

Bob Dancer is a member here

It is against the rules of this forum to list his real name here

regardless of whether it can be located by other means

What the OP said sounds like something SinglelineVP would say.

Whatever the case, it just seems like jealous trolling to me.

I have long been a critic of the person who calls himself "Bob Dancer". I think this is due mainly to the impression I had of the person gained mainly from his posts. After 10-12 years of this, I have come to the conclusion that this person is to be thanked, not vilified. I do not know him personally. His comments and posts do have a way of challenging your emotions on an almost primal level. I don't think he intends for this to happen. I think it's part of his personality.

I have learned a lot from trying to dispute his methodology. It can't be done. On the subject of video poker, he is right on every point he makes. Unfortunately, I have found his methodology very difficult to duplicate. Today's games are not even close to positive and I don't have the motivation, skill, time or stamina to try.

I wish him luck in his later years. It's got to be hard to maintain that level when your body gets in the way. I want him to know I appreciate him. He has made me a better player. Because of the things he has taught me, I enjoy playing a game for a fraction of the players around me. It's all good.

Quote: darkoz

Bob Dancer is a member here

Indeed. It is also against the rules to insult him.