FrGamble
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January 1st, 2014 at 7:36:41 PM permalink
I recently had a nice relaxing time playing some video poker with a decent pay table. I've read the Wizard's video poker sections but would like to do some more studying on the topic with a book in my hand (kind of old fashioned that way). Does anybody know of any really good books on video poker? Thanks.
AxelWolf
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January 1st, 2014 at 7:46:51 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

I recently had a nice relaxing time playing some video poker with a decent pay table. I've read the Wizard's video poker sections but would like to do some more studying on the topic with a book in my hand (kind of old fashioned that way). Does anybody know of any really good books on video poker? Thanks.

I have never read any VP books. When I started I heard Dan Paymar had some good books. They may be a bit outdated now. Most people go for Bob dancers book now days. Some people refuse to buy his books because he works with casinos.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gpac1377
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January 1st, 2014 at 8:36:43 PM permalink
I haven't read any of them, but I would recommend Video Poker for the Intelligent Beginner by Bob Dancer, published in 2009. Dancer is very competent. He may also be a thief, but that's not important right now :)

Dan Paymar was one of the pioneers. He re-released his book in 2010, but I'm cautious of old books that have been updated.

Jean Scott published Frugal Video Poker in 2006. That could be an option if it's on sale.

Presumably you'll also want some type of training software. You'll find a lot of options for that.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
tournamentking
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January 1st, 2014 at 8:43:46 PM permalink
I'm also trying to learn a thing or two about vp. I have Dancer's vpw software, Jean Scott's Frugal Gambler, Dan Paymar's Optimal book, Rob Singer's book, and Frank Kneeland's book. I expect to learn much from all these viewpoints.
coilman
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January 1st, 2014 at 8:44:23 PM permalink
If you have KINDLE you can get that book on it for $9.39

http://www.amazon.com/Video-Poker-Intelligent-Beginner-Dancer/dp/0929712552
Wizard
Administrator
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January 1st, 2014 at 9:24:07 PM permalink
Video poker doesn't lend itself well to the book format. The main things you need are information about where the good games are, return of any given game and pay table, and strategies. You can get all of that online now -- the latter two on my Odds site.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Hunterhill
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January 1st, 2014 at 9:30:32 PM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

I'm also trying to learn a thing or two about vp. I have Dancer's vpw software, Jean Scott's Frugal Gambler, Dan Paymar's Optimal book, Rob Singer's book, and Frank Kneeland's book. I expect to learn much from all these viewpoints.

Throw Rob Singer's book in the trash.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
djatc
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January 2nd, 2014 at 12:05:43 AM permalink
If you want to learn about video poker plays back in the day Bob Dancer's, "Million Dollar Video Poker" is pretty good, even if you have a bad opinion of him. Strategy-wise just stick to the Wizard of Odds. Play a bunch of practice hands and you'll see why you hold 4 to an inside straight over a redraw on one game but redraw on another.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
AxelWolf
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January 2nd, 2014 at 12:42:58 AM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

I'm also trying to learn a thing or two about vp. I have Dancer's vpw software, Jean Scott's Frugal Gambler, Dan Paymar's Optimal book, Rob Singer's book, and Frank Kneeland's book. I expect to learn much from all these viewpoints.

I would hate to go back and quote what you said about, VP and VP AP's.

Stick to slots or Rob Singer VP is for losers
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RealizeGaming
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January 2nd, 2014 at 5:25:59 AM permalink
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention this site or not, but I subscribe to www.videopoker.com and it is worth every cent. Not only do I get to play the newest games, they have daily contests and tournaments you can play in. I think one of the best features of the site is the training mode feature where you can play your favorite games and it will tell you which hand is the best play. If you are unsure about subscribing, you can sign up for a free 7 day trial.
tournamentking
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January 2nd, 2014 at 6:22:44 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I would hate to go back and quote what you said about, VP and VP AP's.

Stick to slots or Rob Singer VP is for losers



I'm trying to learn what you guys already know. Opinions vary and can change. Give me a chance. I get that you don't like him, why is RS for losers? I used to occasionally read a column he wrote in a paper who's name escapes me at the moment, for years it seems. Besides, he has one of the largest vp hand wins posted anywhere. If he's for losers I want some of that.
Twirdman
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January 2nd, 2014 at 6:39:51 AM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

I'm trying to learn what you guys already know. Opinions vary and can change. Give me a chance. I get that you don't like him, why is RS for losers? I used to occasionally read a column he wrote in a paper who's name escapes me at the moment, for years it seems. Besides, he has one of the largest vp hand wins posted anywhere. If he's for losers I want some of that.



Getting lucky on a high bet hand does not make one a good professional gambler. I mean if thats all it takes you should just try and talk to a lottery winner they have far bigger wins.

The issue is if someone is not playing consistently with an advantage they will lose over the long run. Yeah they may win some monster hands in the journey there but ultimately they will lose. I mean what would you prefer to do win a 100,000 VP hand and still end up losing 50k for the year or have your biggest win only 5000 but win 50k over the year.
Ibeatyouraces
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January 2nd, 2014 at 6:55:39 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AxelWolf
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January 2nd, 2014 at 7:00:20 AM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

I'm trying to learn what you guys already know. Opinions vary and can change. Give me a chance. I get that you don't like him, why is RS for losers? I used to occasionally read a column he wrote in a paper who's name escapes me at the moment, for years it seems. Besides, he has one of the largest vp hand wins posted anywhere. If he's for losers I want some of that.

I'm still looking for that apology from you to AP's because of your bashing of VP AP's

I DON'T DISLIKE ROB SINGER. I DON'T DISLIKE ROB SINGER. his system is bunk, HIS SYSTEM IS BUNK. So I don't like his system. I am sure he is a nice guy. Where are all the RS fans, that used his system and won? You cant learn his system, because it is based on gut feeling and he cant even describe his system, its always changing. I hear RS will show you his system for free, why don't you put up your money and go with him? If I really thought someone had a system like his, that worked, I would be knocking down his door, with a fist full of money.

I can show you bigger Jackpots then he has. That's meaningless it proves nothing. If you bet high enough you will hit big jackpots this dose not mean you are winning.

Put up enough money and ill take a challenge that i will get 100k in tax-forms and take pictures in less then 6 hrs. I recently found a play and had a member of this forum play it for us . He earned over 40k in tax-forms in 8 hrs

Don't you get it? 95% of people who are authorities or real AP's disagree with ROB'S system. Why dose that not mean anything to you?

Not everyone wants to post up everything they hit, Most real AP's are trying to hide what machines they are playing, not rub it in the casinos face.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
gpac1377
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January 2nd, 2014 at 7:12:06 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I am sure he is a nice guy.


(He's not a nice guy.)
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
mickeycrimm
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January 3rd, 2014 at 1:00:03 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I have never read any VP books. When I started I heard Dan Paymar had some good books. They may be a bit outdated now. Most people go for Bob dancers book now days. Some people refuse to buy his books because he works with casinos.



I started out reading Lenny Frome articles about video poker in the early nineties. He was published in Cardplayer and Gaming Today. In 1996, after I made some money on the advantage slots, I decided I needed to diversify my portfolio. I went to Gambler's General Store and found Paymar's "Precision Play" and "The Best of Video Poker Times." Paymar had a monthly newsletter called "Video Poker Times." He had a video poker writer named Doug Reul who I eventually became friends with, the best machine pro I've ever met personally.

The great thing about these two guys was they were teaching quarter video poker players how to make dollar money. With games like Stand Alone Flush Attack and Jackpot Card where we were getting 4% and 5% edges on quarters. But those games are extinct today. Paymar updated "Precision Play" to "Video Poker Optimum Play." Even if some of the games are extinct his book is still a great primer on video poker.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxelWolf
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January 3rd, 2014 at 2:02:30 PM permalink
Quote: mickeycrimm

I started out reading Lenny Frome articles about video poker in the early nineties. He was published in Cardplayer and Gaming Today. In 1996, after I made some money on the advantage slots, I decided I needed to diversify my portfolio. I went to Gambler's General Store and found Paymar's "Precision Play" and "The Best of Video Poker Times." Paymar had a monthly newsletter called "Video Poker Times." He had a video poker writer named Doug Reul who I eventually became friends with, the best machine pro I've ever met personally.

The great thing about these two guys was they were teaching quarter video poker players how to make dollar money. With games like Stand Alone Flush Attack and Jackpot Card where we were getting 4% and 5% edges on quarters. But those games are extinct today. Paymar updated "Precision Play" to "Video Poker Optimum Play." Even if some of the games are extinct his book is still a great primer on video poker.

I think Dan had the first article on Flush Attack in card player. I read it after I started playing. A few guys told me they thought FT was good but were not 100% positive if not for that artical they may not be as successful as they are now.

Ya Doug was a relentless animal, always firing on 2 machines. He was on some amazing stuff, including things people don't like to talk about.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Beethoven9th
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January 3rd, 2014 at 2:04:47 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I'm still looking for that apology from you to AP's because of your bashing of VP AP's


TK is entering gr8player/varmenti territory. :)
Fighting BS one post at a time!
AxelWolf
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January 3rd, 2014 at 2:06:59 PM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

TK is entering gr8player/varmenti territory. :)

Well it is Friday
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Perdition
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January 3rd, 2014 at 2:13:24 PM permalink
I guess there was an AP named "Johnny Chung" that claimed to make 80-130k a year on quarter VP only. I guess this was in the 90s. Does that sound right or do you think he was embellishing?
AxelWolf
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January 3rd, 2014 at 3:09:05 PM permalink
Quote: Perdition

I guess there was an AP named "Johnny Chung" that claimed to make 80-130k a year on quarter VP only. I guess this was in the 90s. Does that sound right or do you think he was embellishing?

He is legit, slightly over exaggerated for only .25 (normal plays) but that's not his real name. He found some of the stuff I mentioned people don't like to talk about.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
tournamentking
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January 17th, 2014 at 1:55:08 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

He's never proven, nor will he ever, that any of those wins are his.



Did some research on this subject. I can't see where ANYBODY who claims to be a big winner, including myself to a lesser extent and everyone here from all that I've read, has proven anything in any way. This guy singer, he used to write for some weekly I sometimes read, and at times it seemed to have pictures or info about lots of big hits. So are you saying he did and does what our friend Axel does and has other people play for him so he can take credit for the wins? I don't get the distinction. Why single him out? I admit seeing that pretty $50000 winner makes me feel envious. But come on man.
Ibeatyouraces
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January 17th, 2014 at 6:06:28 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mickeycrimm
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January 17th, 2014 at 8:30:01 AM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

Did some research on this subject. I can't see where ANYBODY who claims to be a big winner, including myself to a lesser extent and everyone here from all that I've read, has proven anything in any way. This guy singer, he used to write for some weekly I sometimes read, and at times it seemed to have pictures or info about lots of big hits. So are you saying he did and does what our friend Axel does and has other people play for him so he can take credit for the wins? I don't get the distinction. Why single him out? I admit seeing that pretty $50000 winner makes me feel envious. But come on man.



TK, as hard as it will be for you, try to understand that Rob Singer, AKA Rob Argentino, AKA Blob Dinger, does not give a rat's ass about video poker strategy. It's just his pretext for trolling people in the internet gambling forums. He is a sick person, TK. He's a malignant narcissist. He is a self loather and the only thing that makes him feel good is bringing other people down to his level. He has been banned. I'll say it again, BANNED. Get it, TK? BANNED from every gambling forum he has been on, vpFREE, Las Vegas Advisor forums, videopoker.com forums, Vegasrex forums, Wizard of Vegas forums.

But I have to tell you this funny story about Blob Dinger, er, Rob Singer. Several years ago, on FREEvpFREE, Rob created another account under the username of Acesup. So now he had two personnas on the forum. He had the persona of Rob Singer in one account, and the persona of Acesup in the other account. Acesup was singing the praises of Singer's gambling system. And Singer is patting Acesup on the back for doing such a good job. Robbie boy didn't have any of us fooled.

So one day Rob got the two accounts tangled up and posted as Rob Singer under the Acesup user name. We all died laughing at the imbecile. Of course, when he found out what he did, he made every excuse in the book for it. But it was too late. I'm still LMAO about it.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
Ibeatyouraces
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January 17th, 2014 at 8:32:45 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AxelWolf
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January 17th, 2014 at 9:32:59 AM permalink
TK you are turning into a Bob Jr. I'm not just referring to this particular post, but a others.

You are the one that originally claimed anything can be faked when I offered up W2G's and casino reports of large jackpots and yearly winnings. Now you are upset we are saying that about RS. FYI A Jackpot means nothing, especially if you are playing $25 machines, $50k is not hard to hit. I told you before, I have hit for over 100k on a 3-coin $1 slot machine, that proves nothing.

Before camera phones, casinos offered to take pic of you and your jackpots. I normally declined as most AP's did, we wanted as little attention as we could get. It was almost embarrassing at times, there were also safety issues. Now even with camera phones, it's not something I normally care about or even think of. I want to play JP's off as fast as possible and get out of the casino. Its not something I would like to flash around on the internet anyways. Other AP's are smart and will quickly figure out where and what you are doing. Also, I know AP's that have been followed and robed at gun point in there house. I have to think of both me and my GF she already stands out. Casino Eyebrows were raised Just the other day, she was told she didn't look like the kind of person who would be playing in that particular casino.

The problem is, RS uses some "SYSTEM" that dose NOT use any real math, his "SYSTEM" goes against the the grain of 95% of most accredited gambling experts, and the, average day to day AP's. His "System uses some voodoo, guessing and martingale type crapola, that changes at his convenience, in order to fit whatever story he is hawking at the time. He is more of a conspiracy theorist than an AP, Anyone with a brain can see that. Unfortunately and fortunately, for some reason there are, and always will be people that want to believe. People are crazy, Heck..... there are people that don't believe we landed on the moon, people believe in big foot, the list goes on.

Once you make claims of a winning system and start touting it, in hopes of selling books, hawking your system, advancing your career and gaining popularity. intelligent, logical People want some good evidence. Usually solid math will do, case closed and everyone moves on.

RS has been in the public eye for a long time, I'm sure he's a skilled writer and knows many things about LV. More power to him he found a niche. if he can convince others he has a system, and people fall for it, I bow to him, just like I bow to the guys selling dice control classes.

He has been offered, time and time again to prove his system works or show documentation he is winning, with tax forms/returns etc, yet the only thing he can provide is a few pic's, once in a wile. If he wants to prove his system works so much, why not film or get a independent witness? Why didn't he pose with his 50K jackpot considering he seems so hell bent on proving his cockamamie system? He is already in the public eye and has been in videos so their cant be any issues with that. This system he claims to have, should have made him more money then God, 50K would be an insignificant amount. This system he claims works should work in most casinos on a large percentage of machines, 24/7 365. Most REAL AP's are not making such claims. Yes many AP's have been on some incredible stuff. Some make a steady income, some are fifthly rich. tho's guy's don't make claims of having this ongoing fail safe system that works indefinitely like RS. Ones who do, WONT TALK ABOUT IT.

TK, what kind of proof do you want? What do you want proof of? Let me know, make it worth my time and put your money where your mouth is.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
tournamentking
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January 17th, 2014 at 3:42:09 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I've posted these before, but here is some of my proof of big hits. Sure they're not single $50,000 wins, but they ARE mine. Also, I don't proclaim to have beaten a -EV game nor will I continue to. I got lucky as hell, period. As for Singer, I don't care or obsess over him. I'm primarily a table games player anyway.



I'll be nice about those: congratulations! But I guarantee you, if I had put up my $80k+ tax slip from a few years back, Axel and a few others would be saying the same stupid things they're saying about that $50k RS hit, that "how do we know it's his, how do we know he played with his money", on and on childish crap. And sorry, but that spells jealous. No one but axel and Crimm are obsessed over rs. My only obsession is how a simple quad can be worth so much. It also keeps drawing lengthy posts from Crimm that have all the markings of being drawn from the bottom of another bottle.
mickeycrimm
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January 17th, 2014 at 4:10:58 PM permalink
Quote: tournamentking[/q

I'll be nice about those: congratulations! But I guarantee you, if I had put up my $80k+ tax slip from a few years back, Axel and a few others would be saying the same stupid things they're saying about that $50k RS hit, that "how do we know it's his, how do we know he played with his money", on and on childish crap. And sorry, but that spells jealous. No one but axel and Crimm are obsessed over rs. My only obsession is how a simple quad can be worth so much. It also keeps drawing lengthy posts from Crimm that have all the markings of being drawn from the bottom of another bottle.



TK, I'm not obsessed over Singer. I have his emails blocked and I quit exchanging with Rob in the forums a long time ago. I don't want anything to do with him. I think YOU are the one who is obsessed with him. I don't care whether Rob hit a jackpot or not. Your accusation that I'm jealous is just another false premise. And the jackpot proves nothing about his system. But why don't you go over to the Alanbestbuys forum and ask Rob to send you or Alan a picture of the W2G so you can show it off over here.

Another thing, TK. Your inability to make heads or tails of the numbers on the screen in the Huck Seed jackpot picture told me everything I need to know about your gambling prowess. And sorry. I wasn't drunk when I made the post to you this morning....and I'm not drunk now. Another false premise by you.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxelWolf
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January 17th, 2014 at 5:41:28 PM permalink
Quote: tournamentking


I'll be nice about those: congratulations! But I guarantee you, if I had put up my $80k+ tax slip from a few years back, Axel and a few others would be saying the same stupid things they're saying about that $50k RS hit, that "how do we know it's his, how do we know he played with his money", on and on childish crap. And sorry, but that spells jealous. No one but axel and Crimm are obsessed over rs. My only obsession is how a simple quad can be worth so much. It also keeps drawing lengthy posts from Crimm that have all the markings of being drawn from the bottom of another bottle.

I better get this out now, since I doubt I will have much time tomorrow.

Post it up your JP. It is meaningless even if you did hit it (I will take it on faith you did hit a big jackpot, I think this has led you to an obsession with ALL slots) dose not make someone a REAL AP, they might just be a lucky SOB.

If you post it up, your JP, with an explanation, when, where and why you had an advantage then things would be different. Try including some math on the situation, I will even take estimated math. Because, I play some things I don't know the exact math, I just know dam well its a good play, and I can explain why.
IE. Someone posted up a pay schedule from some online casino VP game the other day. I didn't have to use a computer or get out a calculator to know dam well it was over 115%, worth a risk free (other then the fact that it was online) couple of hundred per hr. just on a .25 Machine. If I seen something like this in a casino I would jump on it no questions asked(other then, when will it get shut down, and how long can I play).

I am not obsessed with RS, you or others keep bringing him up. I kinda feel sorry for you or anyone that believes in his mumbo jumbo even tho it's in my best interest people like you do. One problem people have with RS.,Is he has been called out for making fake accounts and altering facts in order to make his system and himself look good.Also He has been banned from many gambling sites. You keep on calling out me and Micky for trying to debunk him. Many gaming experts have called him to task, he avoids showing any real challenges by having un-reasonable terms. There are a few other forums around where people call RS a complete idiot and question everything about him and his honesty. http://forum.videopoker.com/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=403https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/4949-the-rob-singer-challenge/ http://www.amazon.com/Undeniable-Truth-About-Video-Poker/dp/089650977X http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=240053&STARTPAGE=6


I still ask you, why RS dose't just make a Video and prove his claims?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
tournamentking
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January 17th, 2014 at 5:54:50 PM permalink
You never read straight axel. I've continually said how it's that odd hand that paid so much that amazes me, not you or RS or Crimm or anybody else. To me you're no different than RS or Crimm. You all claim to win but you all have deep faults within those claims. So we're left with you and Crimm feeling an overwhelming need to keep discrediting he who is not your friend. As I said, that smacks of jealousy. He's not even here for goodness sakes. I'm a successful ap whether you like it or not. The fact that I keep a lot of what I do to myself should come as a breath of fresh air to someone who criticizes Dancer for talking out of both sides of his mouth.

You need to get married and have kids. Find something and someone else to engage your conflict.
mickeycrimm
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January 17th, 2014 at 6:06:55 PM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

You never read straight axel. I've continually said how it's that odd hand that paid so much that amazes me, not you or RS or Crimm or anybody else. To me you're no different than RS or Crimm. You all claim to win but you all have deep faults within those claims. So we're left with you and Crimm feeling an overwhelming need to keep discrediting he who is not your friend. As I said, that smacks of jealousy. He's not even here for goodness sakes. I'm a successful ap whether you like it or not. The fact that I keep a lot of what I do to myself should come as a breath of fresh air to someone who criticizes Dancer for talking out of both sides of his mouth. You need to get married and have kids. Find something and someone else to engage your conflict.



You are exhibiting malignant narsissitic qualities, my friend. Just like RS.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
mickeycrimm
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January 17th, 2014 at 6:08:26 PM permalink
deleted
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxiomOfChoice
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January 17th, 2014 at 6:13:10 PM permalink
Can I ask why everyone is so concerned about who has big wins? What the hell does it have to do with anything?

When I read what someone writes, I can tell in 30 seconds whether they know what they are talking about. It's pretty clear to me that Axel and Mickey know what they are talking about. I don't need to see tax receipts to know this -- they just show a basic understanding of mathematics, logic, and how games can be beaten. Is there really any doubt about this?
gpac1377
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January 17th, 2014 at 6:17:54 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

When I read what someone writes, I can tell in 30 seconds whether they know what they are talking about. It's pretty clear to me that Axel and Mickey know what they are talking about. I don't need to see tax receipts to know this -- they just show a basic understanding of mathematics, logic, and how games can be beaten. Is there really any doubt about this?


This.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
AcesAndEights
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January 19th, 2014 at 2:56:57 AM permalink
Quote: gpac1377

This.


Yep.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
tournamentking
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January 19th, 2014 at 3:30:59 AM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Can I ask why everyone is so concerned about who has big wins? What the hell does it have to do with anything?

When I read what someone writes, I can tell in 30 seconds whether they know what they are talking about. It's pretty clear to me that Axel and Mickey know what they are talking about. I don't need to see tax receipts to know this -- they just show a basic understanding of mathematics, logic, and how games can be beaten. Is there really any doubt about this?



You guys really all belong in a single club. You all think in one way only. If someone writes about doing something in the same manner as he either does it or wishes he could/wants to do it because it's agreeable, then why see it any other way? Pat each other on the backs 24/7. No need to see proof of anything, they do it your way then it has to be the best way. It has to be the better way. It has to be the only successful way. Don't add any more conflict to your gambling lives (if in fact, any of you really play in casinos as much as you would like others to believe). If one of you posts a big winner (which I really do doubt we'll ever see happen because it's all intellectual bluster here to a fault) then praise be to the winner, and "we don't need to see anything beyond that to KNOW this is a ferocious lifetime winner, purely because of the way he writes and/or the stories he tells." But see a big winner from someone outside the circle, then it just can't be happening. It can't be real, and if it is then somehow it's a fluke.

The bottom line in gambling is only your results and not necessarily how you attack it. Too much emphasis is put on that. Using math is important but it is not the end of the line. If that were true, casinos would NEVER offer games or situations where we could play in an obvious 100%+ theoretical environment. My way to play progressive slots may differ from the good 'ol boys club way, but it's been a winning formula for a number of years. I know others who do it the same way as myself. Just because they have no interest in spilling their guts on forums doesn't mean forum people are right and they or we are wrong. Not by a longshot.
onenickelmiracle
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January 19th, 2014 at 3:54:53 AM permalink
Ask Coke or KFC to share their secrets and see what they say TK. Like has been said before, it's really competitive and sharing costs people money and normally people share when it's gone forever. They could brag but the next time instead of playing, TK and his cousins are taking up all the opportunity or playing it short.

If you're playing slots, Million Dollar slots sounds good but I haven't read it. Most of the stuff I liked has been dead for years or too far away. There will come a day everything good has been plugged forever but not yet.
I am a robot.
onenickelmiracle
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January 19th, 2014 at 4:02:02 AM permalink
Crimm I have no idea why you don't believe. He didn't live in his car because he wanted to, but probably because it's so hard and needed to migrate to find opportunities. Not playing negative expectations too is a hard thing not to do when nothing is ripe is also quite some proof to me. It's the most common pitfall.
I am a robot.
Transcend
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January 19th, 2014 at 4:19:39 AM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

If one of you posts a big winner (which I really do doubt we'll ever see happen because it's all intellectual bluster here to a fault) then praise be to the winner, and "we don't need to see anything beyond that to KNOW this is a ferocious lifetime winner, purely because of the way he writes and/or the stories he tells." But see a big winner from someone outside the circle, then it just can't be happening. It can't be real, and if it is then somehow it's a fluke.



My first post here was a big slot win albeit luck, not saying it was an AP play at all. In just posting that you were extremely rude and disbelieving about my win so much so I had to bend over backwards to prove it...and even then it was hardly enough proof for you. I ask you, where are any of your wins posted? You speak of winning, can you prove it?
Part of it went on gambling, and part of it went on women. The rest I spent foolishly. -George Raft
Mission146
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January 19th, 2014 at 8:24:34 AM permalink
Quote: Transcend

My first post here was a big slot win albeit luck, not saying it was an AP play at all. In just posting that you were extremely rude and disbelieving about my win so much so I had to bend over backwards to prove it...and even then it was hardly enough proof for you. I ask you, where are any of your wins posted? You speak of winning, can you prove it?



Worrying about what TournamentKing thinks is equivalent to me worrying about someone unemployed saying I am a loser with a crappy job, so don't.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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January 19th, 2014 at 8:27:38 AM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

. Don't add any more conflict to your gambling lives (if in fact, any of you really play in casinos as much as you would like others to believe)..



I've about had my fun with you disrespecting bona fide professionals on this Forum every other post.

If you don't like the club, consider the, "Logout," button the door, and don't let it hit you in the posterior on the way out.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Transcend
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January 19th, 2014 at 8:34:31 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Worrying about what TournamentKing thinks is equivalent to me worrying about someone unemployed saying I am a loser with a crappy job, so don't.



Not worried in the least, but he is always pointing that finger around for evidence except towards himself.
Part of it went on gambling, and part of it went on women. The rest I spent foolishly. -George Raft
Mission146
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January 19th, 2014 at 8:57:36 AM permalink
A wise fish will look for food somewhere other than the end of a hook, my friend.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Ibeatyouraces
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January 19th, 2014 at 9:46:49 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mickeycrimm
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January 19th, 2014 at 10:57:03 AM permalink
Quote: Transcend

My first post here was a big slot win albeit luck, not saying it was an AP play at all. In just posting that you were extremely rude and disbelieving about my win so much so I had to bend over backwards to prove it...and even then it was hardly enough proof for you. I ask you, where are any of your wins posted? You speak of winning, can you prove it?



To me a big jackpot doesn't make the man. Big jackpots don't go to professionals because we don't play Megabucks, Elvis, and all those other shared revenue games that rarely go positive, have a huge drop, and extreme long shot odds. Those jackpots go to the ploppies.

I ignored TK pots shots at me for quite awhile....but finally fired back. But I see the pattern developing. Several years ago it started the same way with RS. I tried to carry on a civil debate but he kept up with the put downs, insults, etc. I spiraled right down into it with him firing off my own barrage of insults. The whole thing just became a viscious pissing match. So I quit and vowed not to ever get myself in that situation again. So I'm not going to get myself in that situation with TK.

As big jackpots go, the best I ever did was a $38,000 win in just a few hours of video poker play. It happened at the Wendover Nugget in August 2007. A drawing promotion was going on. I had a short time to run the tickets which were based on action. I jumped up to $5 NSUD. I hit two $20,000 royals. Both came by holding two-card royals on the flop. And both were in diamonds. Now, I haven't played 15,000 games total at the $5 level in my lifetime. So what happened? I got outhouse lucky is what happened. I didn't beat other gamblers over the head with lines like "What the hell have you guys ever hit? Show me some W2-G's, idiots." I didn't do any of that nonsense. I understood that I just got lucky.

If I keep living in Montana I will never have a chance at another big jackpot. $800 is max jackpot by law here. But I don't need big jackpots to make a living. I have good hourly rates even with the $800 cap.
"Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
AxiomOfChoice
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January 19th, 2014 at 1:27:34 PM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

The bottom line in gambling is only your results and not necessarily how you attack it.



This statement shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

You think that the chump who cashes a $200 million powerball win is an expert gambler? His total lifetime gambling results will certainly be very, very good -- are you going to take gambling advice from him? Of course not (at least I hope not). Everyone knows that he just got lucky.

Anyone who plays enough will have lots of big wins. Most big wins are by losing players. Focusing on these big wins as proof of anything shows that your approach makes no sense.

Losing players love high variance -- it is the only way that they can win. Winning players hate it -- it is the only way that they can lose.
gpac1377
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January 19th, 2014 at 1:41:21 PM permalink
Quote: tournamentking

The bottom line in gambling is only your results and not necessarily how you attack it.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

This statement shows that you don't know what you are talking about.


Let's compare to the Wizard's subject line: "It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet."

So tournamentking appears to be advocating the polar opposite of the Wizard's philosophy. It's possible tk didn't mean what he said, but tk's overall "body of work" here on the forum is very muddled, and the tone is often unnecessarily adversarial, IMO.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
tournamentking
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January 19th, 2014 at 1:48:09 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Worrying about what TournamentKing thinks is equivalent to me worrying about someone unemployed saying I am a loser with a crappy job, so don't.



Funny, since you mentioned it and from reading previous posts, I actually DO believe you have a crappy job....and that you believe it too. So congrats for a good call.
tournamentking
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January 19th, 2014 at 1:57:12 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

This statement shows that you don't know what you are talking about.

You think that the chump who cashes a $200 million powerball win is an expert gambler? His total lifetime gambling results will certainly be very, very good -- are you going to take gambling advice from him? Of course not (at least I hope not). Everyone knows that he just got lucky.

Anyone who plays enough will have lots of big wins. Most big wins are by losing players. Focusing on these big wins as proof of anything shows that your approach makes no sense.

Losing players love high variance -- it is the only way that they can win. Winning players hate it -- it is the only way that they can lose.



Lottery winners have nothing to do with successful gambling approaches.

By your logic, players like B. Dancer who talk about hitting big winners all the time, are losers. Go back and visit that.

I'm no fan of high variance, but contrary to the resident PhD. here in winning, no one ever knows what the return on the slot machine they play is. They can only guess from various bits of information, then approximate after that. There's nothing truly "ap" about that, other than to make themselves feel better about chasing the progressive.
tournamentking
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January 19th, 2014 at 2:01:47 PM permalink
Quote: Transcend

My first post here was a big slot win albeit luck, not saying it was an AP play at all. In just posting that you were extremely rude and disbelieving about my win so much so I had to bend over backwards to prove it...and even then it was hardly enough proof for you. I ask you, where are any of your wins posted? You speak of winning, can you prove it?



I'll take the axel, etc. approach here: "what did you prove? Anyone can snap a pic of someone else's hit then create a tax slip on it. And how do we know you weren't playing with someone else's money". Additionally, "losing players love high variance. They hit big wins all the time."

How's them apple's? That's why unless you're in the special boys club, you stay away from posting big wins from now on. It gets under their skin.
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