Pai Gow Poker -- b*tch session
May 16th, 2012 at 11:16:49 PM
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B*tch session:
For some reason I decided to play Pai Gow Poker the other day. $10, full table. Of course, being a WoO/WoV reader, I had to bank, and was the only one taking the bank. $70-$100 in action each hand.
First hand: Pair of J-J, 6-7 top. Lost every hand.
Second hand: Pair of K-K, no top. Lost or pushed every hand.
Third hand: Queen high Pai Gow.
See ya.
Goddamnit, PG Dan is right. You should never bank! :)
For some reason I decided to play Pai Gow Poker the other day. $10, full table. Of course, being a WoO/WoV reader, I had to bank, and was the only one taking the bank. $70-$100 in action each hand.
First hand: Pair of J-J, 6-7 top. Lost every hand.
Second hand: Pair of K-K, no top. Lost or pushed every hand.
Third hand: Queen high Pai Gow.
See ya.
Goddamnit, PG Dan is right. You should never bank! :)
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 16th, 2012 at 11:33:00 PM
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i know the wizard (and the math) says to bank at every opportunity...
however, i have also experienced a very bad time in doing so at a full table.
especially if it is full of non-chinese players.
a lot of americans get sort of confused when you bank against them.
last month i took the bank after a bad beat and playing against two couples.
they were not really familiar with the rules regarding the bank.
they got excited when the dealer flopped his hand and had a pair of 6, with a JT up.
you should have seen their faces when the dealer informed them they had to beat my hand:
ace heart flush, KK ! when they saw the dealer give me all of their wagers,
they decided to "take a break".
my worst beatdown while banking occurred last year when i banked a full table for about $200.
i had a TT, QJ and lost to everyone, pushing the dealer. wipeout.
i now will not bank when playing with more than one or two others.
however, i have also experienced a very bad time in doing so at a full table.
especially if it is full of non-chinese players.
a lot of americans get sort of confused when you bank against them.
last month i took the bank after a bad beat and playing against two couples.
they were not really familiar with the rules regarding the bank.
they got excited when the dealer flopped his hand and had a pair of 6, with a JT up.
you should have seen their faces when the dealer informed them they had to beat my hand:
ace heart flush, KK ! when they saw the dealer give me all of their wagers,
they decided to "take a break".
my worst beatdown while banking occurred last year when i banked a full table for about $200.
i had a TT, QJ and lost to everyone, pushing the dealer. wipeout.
i now will not bank when playing with more than one or two others.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
May 17th, 2012 at 7:00:48 AM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 17th, 2012 at 8:51:13 AM
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Bank when you can afford it with your bankroll. I play $25 a hand, the most I'll put up as banker is an additional $50-$60. So if it's a pretty full table and people are playing between $10-$15, I'll do it no problem. But I don't think I can handle betting $25 and putting up $100 against everyone else.
May 17th, 2012 at 9:29:00 AM
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I don't bank, and recommend against it for mainly operational reasons.
However, I will say that when you bank, the money-in-action amount can go up through the roof along with risk of ruin; some players are like, "Fine, you wanna bank? Can you fade $500 per hand? You got a jack-high? Told ya!"
A lot of operators are getting rid of player banking and the dragon hand simply as a needless table operation drag on the game and its hand-per-hour performance. We recommend no banking/no dragon on EZ Pai Gow for good reason.
However, I will say that when you bank, the money-in-action amount can go up through the roof along with risk of ruin; some players are like, "Fine, you wanna bank? Can you fade $500 per hand? You got a jack-high? Told ya!"
A lot of operators are getting rid of player banking and the dragon hand simply as a needless table operation drag on the game and its hand-per-hour performance. We recommend no banking/no dragon on EZ Pai Gow for good reason.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 9:46:51 AM
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Oh, I knew what I was getting into, and I just as easily could have won every hand (it's been known to happen). That said, I don't bank often 'cause it causes problems. The dealers are just horrible at handling the bank at this casino, and nobody likes to bank. I probably won't be doing it again for a while.
Yep. And as I was betting $10 a hand, and banking $70-$100 each bank, I thought that was a pretty good ratio. Of course, no one ever plans for the EXTREME negative variance.Quote:As most people on this board likely know, you can gain an advantage if you bank a high ratio of money versus your standard bet although that situation doesn't seem to present itself all too often.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
May 17th, 2012 at 9:54:44 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanI don't bank, and recommend against it for mainly operational reasons.
However, I will say that when you bank, the money-in-action amount can go up through the roof along with risk of ruin; some players are like, "Fine, you wanna bank? Can you fade $500 per hand? You got a jack-high? Told ya!"
A lot of operators are getting rid of player banking and the dragon hand simply as a needless table operation drag on the game and its hand-per-hour performance. We recommend no banking/no dragon on EZ Pai Gow for good reason.
Please elaborate your reasoning for the opinion regarding banking. I have no experience with this game but you seem to suggest that a player can do better without ever banking.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
May 17th, 2012 at 10:03:19 AM
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Pai Gow Poker is my favorite casino game. I've been to a few, although not many casinos, that disallow player banking. For me, this is a big negative and detracts from my enjoyment of the game and I choose not to frequent such establishments. As most people on this board likely know, you can gain an advantage if you bank a high ratio of money versus your standard bet although that situation doesn't seem to present itself all too often. I find it really annoying when certain casinos squeeze players at every angle that they can- and with the proliferation of casino gambling- players should walk as they have choices! Any casino, for example, that has a 3-card poker bonus bet paying 3 to 1 is just being greedy: ~3% edge isn't enough so they have to go for 5 or 7%?! That just annoys me and is such a warning sign as you know they'll be trying to take you in other areas, but I digress...
...favorite banking story: I was playing two hands and banking every-other hand for pretty good stakes, much to the consternation of some fellow who felt the need to educate me that low-hand copies don't matter. In the next 3 hours, as banker, I incredibly copied *three* times on the low, for a ten-unit run total for the session. He then remained quiet.
Choose to bank or not bank- but let's keep the option open for players!
...favorite banking story: I was playing two hands and banking every-other hand for pretty good stakes, much to the consternation of some fellow who felt the need to educate me that low-hand copies don't matter. In the next 3 hours, as banker, I incredibly copied *three* times on the low, for a ten-unit run total for the session. He then remained quiet.
Choose to bank or not bank- but let's keep the option open for players!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
May 17th, 2012 at 10:25:22 AM
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Quote: only1choicePlease elaborate your reasoning for the opinion regarding banking. I have no experience with this game but you seem to suggest that a player can do better without ever banking.
A player can often do better WITH banking in PGP, but that it is:
1. More volitile, and;
2. Better suited to a player-banked environment such as a card room, where a casino-banked table doesn't have to "switch modes" between house banking and player banking on a live game. I will state here that I am openly addressing - and agreeing with - casino operator game performance concerns here. When my EZ Pai Gow Poker was adopted by the Cannery Group, all player banking and dragon hand options were eliminated, which is a trend being considered by other operators.
Keep in mind that player banking in the casino version of PGP is an operational relic from its card-room origins, and works about as well as player banking on Blackjack, UTH, or Roulette.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 10:37:38 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanWhen my EZ Pai Gow Poker was adopted by the Cannery Group...
Congrats, Paigowdan, on your successful game creations! I assume you're the same fellow who also invented the (very successful) EZ Baccarat? I look forward to trying out EZ Pai Gow some day, and am surprised it hasn't gained more traction at this point. Operationally, I have no doubt both EZ games make sense for casinos, and with regards to the EZ Pai Gow, even if they retained the banking option.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
May 17th, 2012 at 11:46:40 AM
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In regards to banking...
I bank at the table most of the time, unless I choose to play two hands that time. I do one or the other, since I can set my hands in about 3 seconds (not much of an exaggeration btw). I hate sitting for a minute while everybody else figures out what to do, so two hands gives me a bit more to do while I wait. I'm still usually the first one done, even with everybody else playing one hand, but oh well...
Anyways, if it's going to cause really bad feelings, I won't bank. If I sit down at a full table, I will not bank. However, if I'm the first at the table, I will bank, and tell everybody sitting down that I bank every other hand (or as often as possible). I also encourage them to do the same against me.
Banking is all how you view winning/losing. If you look at it as I'm taking your money and you're taking mine, you'll never do it. If you view it as the house is going to win the money anyways so we might as well keep it on this side of the table (less commission), then it's easier to do so. Asians usually don't view it that way, but the co-banking option on Tiles can be fun, especially when it seems the dealer is winning hand after hand. I'm NEVER offended if someone banks, and I openly thank them for doing so.
I bank at the table most of the time, unless I choose to play two hands that time. I do one or the other, since I can set my hands in about 3 seconds (not much of an exaggeration btw). I hate sitting for a minute while everybody else figures out what to do, so two hands gives me a bit more to do while I wait. I'm still usually the first one done, even with everybody else playing one hand, but oh well...
Anyways, if it's going to cause really bad feelings, I won't bank. If I sit down at a full table, I will not bank. However, if I'm the first at the table, I will bank, and tell everybody sitting down that I bank every other hand (or as often as possible). I also encourage them to do the same against me.
Banking is all how you view winning/losing. If you look at it as I'm taking your money and you're taking mine, you'll never do it. If you view it as the house is going to win the money anyways so we might as well keep it on this side of the table (less commission), then it's easier to do so. Asians usually don't view it that way, but the co-banking option on Tiles can be fun, especially when it seems the dealer is winning hand after hand. I'm NEVER offended if someone banks, and I openly thank them for doing so.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
May 17th, 2012 at 11:52:56 AM
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I usually only bank when I'm playing alone with the dealer...just every other hand then...easy enough.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
May 17th, 2012 at 12:29:02 PM
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Since Dan didn't respond yet, I'll answer.Quote: TheBigPaybakCongrats, Paigowdan, on your successful game creations! I assume you're the same fellow who also invented the (very successful) EZ Baccarat?
He invented EZ Pai Gow, but didn't invent EZ Baccarat. However, EZ Pai Gow, which had a different title while he was shopping it around, was picked up by the same distributor that has EZ Bac. That, and the fact that it's a similar concept, let to the obvious name change.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
May 17th, 2012 at 12:37:37 PM
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Exactly, Dave is right. (I was at lunch).
My commission-free PGP game was originally called Tao Pai Gow, and DEQ felt it would be a very good sister product to EZ Baccarat; they picked it up, and elected to re-brand it EZ Pai Gow.
EZ Baccarat was invented by Robin Powell and T.J. Tejada of the Talisman Group. DEQ has a strong niche in (commission-free) Asian games, and along with the G3 progressive system, the Bac and PGP games round up their top three products.
My commission-free PGP game was originally called Tao Pai Gow, and DEQ felt it would be a very good sister product to EZ Baccarat; they picked it up, and elected to re-brand it EZ Pai Gow.
EZ Baccarat was invented by Robin Powell and T.J. Tejada of the Talisman Group. DEQ has a strong niche in (commission-free) Asian games, and along with the G3 progressive system, the Bac and PGP games round up their top three products.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 12:41:38 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanExactly, Dave is right. (I was at lunch).
My commission-free PGP game was originally called Tao Pai Gow, and DEQ felt it would be a very good sister product to EZ Baccarat; they picked it up, and elected to re-brand it EZ Pai Gow.
EZ Baccarat was invented by Robin Powell and T.J. Tejada of the Talisman Group. DEQ has a strong niche in (commission-free) Asian games, and along with the G3 progressive system, the Bac and PGP games round up their top three products.
Well I wish you all the success. I follow DEQ and while I've not yet seen/played your game, I can't help but feel it will gain traction in the next few years- it seems like a natural!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
May 17th, 2012 at 1:57:47 PM
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Quote: TheBigPaybakWell I wish you all the success. I follow DEQ and while I've not yet seen/played your game, I can't help but feel it will gain traction in the next few years- it seems like a natural!
We are now in 15 states.
Not a single casino operator cancelled or withdrew the product, just a Phenomenal start.
It's like a budding screenwriter on his first attempt being told by Martin Scorsese or the Coen brothers, "Yeah, we signed your screenplay for $2.5M, and we start filming in New York City next month, with Al Pacino, Meryl Streep, and Robert DeNiro as the leads. And no, Tim Burton won't get near it. And would you like to be on the set? We couldn't get you a trailer, so we're putting you up at the Carlyle..."
My wife and I have bought new cars off the lot, (Gaudin Ford of Las Vegas), we see shows like Smokey Robinson at the Cannery, or Aretha Franklin at Ceasars palace (the upcoming Sunday, July 15th show at Ceasars). Front row, Orchestra. Looking back, it was a lot of work, but it is also that surreal for me...
...I have bad dreams where I step into a nasty Vietnam war type of bear or booby trap at a casino set by Lucifer, or Roger Snow, or Rob Saucier or somebody, (it varies), saying"Na-HA, Dan! It WAS just a fucking dream..awake..awake to misery and poverty...CALL some more dice for $7.25 plus shitty tips...your dream is over..."
Edit: Gaming Industry Corporately planning and strategic meeting...
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 2:12:02 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
My wife and I have bought new cars off the lot, (Gaudin Ford of Las Vegas), we see shows
I can never get enough of gloating DarkSiders
who profit at the expense of the ignorant
public. It makes taking the casinos money all
that much sweeter..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 17th, 2012 at 2:15:11 PM
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Listen, I am not gloating.
I'm just doing a bit better, some relief. Notice we only bought reliable Fords (focus), not BMW's or Mercedes Benz's, which is outside of my league anyway. And I am spending on show tickets what I used to spend on dice.
It was very hard work that comes with fears and nightmares and worries at times...
Again see the Gaming Industry Corporate Planning meeting for reference...
This is to appease you claimers of us being the dark-siders...
I'm just doing a bit better, some relief. Notice we only bought reliable Fords (focus), not BMW's or Mercedes Benz's, which is outside of my league anyway. And I am spending on show tickets what I used to spend on dice.
It was very hard work that comes with fears and nightmares and worries at times...
Again see the Gaming Industry Corporate Planning meeting for reference...
This is to appease you claimers of us being the dark-siders...
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 2:25:40 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
It was very hard work that comes with fears and nightmares and worries at times...
..
And taking the casinos money is easy? Except
you're the fears and nightmares of the AP.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 17th, 2012 at 2:31:26 PM
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Quote: EvenBobAnd taking the casinos money is easy? Except
you're the fears and nightmares of the AP.
No, we don't worry about them anymore. Used to, ages ago....
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 2:34:09 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanNo, we don't worry about them anymore. Used to, ages ago....
You mean yesterday? LoL...
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 17th, 2012 at 3:04:44 PM
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Quote: EvenBobYou mean yesterday? LoL...
No.
About 2002, or about ten years at least. LOL.
And Bob, did you retire on your card-counting profits? More LOL....
Gaming mathematicians who know card counting cold, have to take day time jobs - and for the dark hats no less - to make good $$ in the industry.
Bob, who are you, and what do you do in the gaming industry?
Tell us something plausible...
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 17th, 2012 at 7:10:45 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
Bob, who are you, and what do you do in the gaming industry?
Nothing that you'd like.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 17th, 2012 at 7:36:16 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 17th, 2012 at 7:46:47 PM
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I don't know you Paigowdan but based on your posts it's hard to think of someone better who deserves all this great success. I wish you success in the future.
By the way... I'm noticing a correlation between the good posters here (yourself, Wizard, 1BB, Teddys, ibeatyouraces to name a few) and gambling success or success in the industry in general. Don't let the jealous haters distract you.
By the way... I'm noticing a correlation between the good posters here (yourself, Wizard, 1BB, Teddys, ibeatyouraces to name a few) and gambling success or success in the industry in general. Don't let the jealous haters distract you.
100% risk of ruin
May 17th, 2012 at 7:56:15 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 17th, 2012 at 8:21:56 PM
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There's nothing wrong with Dan. His views are
the polar opposite of mine, thats all.
the polar opposite of mine, thats all.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 17th, 2012 at 8:27:12 PM
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I was never much of a Banker, though I did bank at low-limit games. Some Players have huge swings in betting, notably Asian gamblers. Others bet large using one of the two alternating decks, being "lucky" on the one particular color. One of the reasons I did not bank often was that in Foxwoods and MS at the time the Banker MUST use House Way. If I had trip Aces KQ, I could not play the KQ as 2-card hand. I would be inclined to do this if Banking.
Sometimes playing 6-10 hands gives one the feel of the table. I never went in and Banked every other hand played.
Banking does lower the H.A. significantly, but puts Banker at odds of of up to 6 average bets against you... not for the faint of heart, and bankroll swings (dat ol debil variance) are expected. If I wanted to bank, at a $20 table, I would not consider a buy-in of less than $600. JMH2%
Sometimes playing 6-10 hands gives one the feel of the table. I never went in and Banked every other hand played.
Banking does lower the H.A. significantly, but puts Banker at odds of of up to 6 average bets against you... not for the faint of heart, and bankroll swings (dat ol debil variance) are expected. If I wanted to bank, at a $20 table, I would not consider a buy-in of less than $600. JMH2%
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
May 18th, 2012 at 7:02:47 AM
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Quote: PaigowdanWe are now in 15 states.
Not a single casino operator cancelled or withdrew the product, just a Phenomenal start.
It's like a budding screenwriter on his first attempt being told by Martin Scorsese or the Coen brothers, "Yeah, we signed your screenplay for $2.5M, and we start filming in New York City next month, with Al Pacino, Meryl Streep, and Robert DeNiro as the leads. And no, Tim Burton won't get near it. And would you like to be on the set? We couldn't get you a trailer, so we're putting you up at the Carlyle..."
My wife and I have bought new cars off the lot, (Gaudin Ford of Las Vegas), we see shows like Smokey Robinson at the Cannery, or Aretha Franklin at Ceasars palace (the upcoming Sunday, July 15th show at Ceasars). Front row, Orchestra. Looking back, it was a lot of work, but it is also that surreal for me...
...I have bad dreams where I step into a nasty Vietnam war type of bear or booby trap at a casino set by Lucifer, or Roger Snow, or Rob Saucier or somebody, (it varies), saying"Na-HA, Dan! It WAS just a fucking dream..awake..awake to misery and poverty...CALL some more dice for $7.25 plus shitty tips...your dream is over..."
Edit: Gaming Industry Corporately planning and strategic meeting...
Well I did look forward to playing the game- once again congrats!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
May 18th, 2012 at 10:35:01 AM
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I tend to like Dan (even though I only know him from here) and wish him the best of luck. It's great to see a "little guy" do well. I do have a problem with the statement:
I don't know of any Dealer that lives in poverty unless their lifestyle doesn't match with their income. Cleaners have a pretty crappy job and make crappy money, kitchen utility workers have a pretty crappy job and make crappy money. Dealers do pretty well and too many compain just to hear themselves talk. Work indoors, get benefits, paid timeoff, work an hour and a half then get a 30 minute break, do you job correctly and nobody bothers you. Not a bad gig and far from misery and poverty.
Zcore13
Quote:It WAS just a fucking dream..awake..awake to misery and poverty...CALL some more dice for $7.25 plus shitty tips...your dream is over..."
I don't know of any Dealer that lives in poverty unless their lifestyle doesn't match with their income. Cleaners have a pretty crappy job and make crappy money, kitchen utility workers have a pretty crappy job and make crappy money. Dealers do pretty well and too many compain just to hear themselves talk. Work indoors, get benefits, paid timeoff, work an hour and a half then get a 30 minute break, do you job correctly and nobody bothers you. Not a bad gig and far from misery and poverty.
Zcore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
May 18th, 2012 at 11:15:23 AM
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Quote: Zcore13work an hour and a half then get a 30 minute break,
Most of the casinos I go to, they work 40min and get 20min off.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
May 18th, 2012 at 12:18:26 PM
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Quote: EvenBobMost of the casinos I go to, they work 40min and get 20min off.
Actually, it's 20 minute cycles, no matter what (I think...) 60 or 80 on, 20 off...and so on.
PGD, I enjoy playing EZPGP (better than actual PGP really!) and I'm glad you got your uppencommence.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
May 18th, 2012 at 1:31:03 PM
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Quote: Zcore13I tend to like Dan (even though I only know him from here) and wish him the best of luck. It's great to see a "little guy" do well. I do have a problem with the statement:
I don't know of any Dealer that lives in poverty unless their lifestyle doesn't match with their income. Cleaners have a pretty crappy job and make crappy money, kitchen utility workers have a pretty crappy job and make crappy money. Dealers do pretty well and too many compain just to hear themselves talk. Work indoors, get benefits, paid timeoff, work an hour and a half then get a 30 minute break, do you job correctly and nobody bothers you. Not a bad gig and far from misery and poverty.
Zcore13
You know of one now.
In fact, if you lived in Las Vegas, and knew dealers who worked at local places, you'd know a lot of dealers who live with poor wages.
Only at top-level strip casinos (Ceasars, Wynn, Bellagio) does a dealer do well. A dealer's pay at a local place in LV compares with a cab driver or housekeeping maid.
My full time salary for the year of 2011, 72 hours a week [bi-weekly paycheck period, corrected], including tips and wages, for the dealing job was $28,166.22 GROSS.
If this is questioned, I can post the W-2 online, if it is necessary, or PM it to a fellow member to verify this for you.
It is a very tough obstacle to pay for a mortgage and a used car with this, or live any sort of middle class life on this alone.
And this is GOOD for a locals casino. It was superior to the Sahara, the Stratosphere, the Longhorn, the Western, some downtown casinos, etc.
I do count on other sources - by far - to live well now.
Don't get me wrong, the outfit is great, and they treat us great.
Most of the customers are great, a few are bad.
It's that the hourly base pay rate is $7.25/hour, and the tips average about $6.50 an hour, and is pretty tough to live well on.
To correct Zcore13:
1. While it is a good job, considering the benefits and exposure to the gaming industry - if that is your life's blood, then
2. the wages are poor, even close to poverty at many places, and at truly poverty levels, if you work part time, or on call, or without benefits with a spouse who is not working.
Also, you can be termed or "bothered" at work for any reason, and with no recourse.
You get called into the office, and the shift manager says: "Surveillance called, and said you held up a 7-11 on your way to work. They also said you mispaid a $3 bet on BJ-47 sometime in the last three years, which may or may not be true, but cannot be argued. How do you plead before we terminate you, not that your plea or comment matters...?" This is many places in the gaming industry, with my outfit being near the top in terms of humane treatment of its workers (good benefits, no false accusations, some recourse to incorrect job assesments, etc.), in spite of the pay.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 18th, 2012 at 1:36:42 PM
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Would you call that salary on the low end or average? I have a couple of dealer friends who both make in the fortys. P.S. this is in Ct.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
May 18th, 2012 at 1:41:30 PM
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Quote: only1choiceWould you call that salary on the low end or average? I have a couple of dealer friends who both make in the fortys. P.S. this is in Ct.
This is average for local places in Las Vegas, and low in comarison for the strip (except for the Stratoshphere, and the Sahara, which is now defunct.)
Also, this income is better than a LOT of places, including a few in the downtown area.
There used to be the Dealers' News newsletter, which posted typical daily earnings of the area's casinos on a weekly/monthly basis. That was painfull to read.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 18th, 2012 at 1:42:48 PM
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Bottom line, Are you happy?
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
May 18th, 2012 at 1:49:26 PM
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Quote: only1choiceBottom line, Are you happy?
Yes, with my life in gaming, and with my income now being supplemented by my EZ Pai Gow income, my consulting income, and my wife's income.
She now works as a housekeeping maid at a Boyd Property, and makes what a dealer makes in MANY places. And she is not full time; she is on call with no benefits.
I am clearly devoted and dedicated to gaming, but if I were to tell you that my wife and I could live well in a major city such as Las Vegas on $28K a year, I'd be lying, and I did not lie about this. The majority of my income does not come from dealing, it comes from consulting and from new game royalties. All of my health insurance and benefits comes from my full time dealing job. I have to say that Stations is exceptionally great and decent in how it treats its employees in terms of benefits, and turns it into a good job, in spite of the apparent modest salary.
Anyone who thinks dealing is a great and gravy-train type of job in a romantic fashion is just kidding hemself. It is a merely a good job that, if handled properly, you do not take home from work.
$28K a year (for a family of two, no less a larger family) is terrible for urban and urbane living in the United States in 2011.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 18th, 2012 at 1:54:44 PM
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I am happy for you. To many people work and are miserable.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
IF YOU PLAY "PLAY TO WIN"
May 18th, 2012 at 2:03:43 PM
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Quote: Paigowdan
My full time salary for the year of 2011, 72 hours a week, including tips and wages, for the dealing job was $28,166.22 GROSS.
If this is questioned, I can post the W-2 online, if it is necessary, or PM it to a fellow member to verify this for you.
Something doesn't add up here...... 72 hours x 48 weeks (4 weeks vacation?) =3456 hours = about $8 per hour. You can post as many W-2's as you want, but I then will not believe you worked more than a 40 hour week....
May 18th, 2012 at 2:06:31 PM
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72 hours per pay period, 36 hours per week.
I typed 72 hours per week, meaning 72 hours per paycheck, which is bi-weekly.
Also, it is 2 weeks vacation until 5 years on the job at full time, - but you get three extra "floater" days per year. This is fine with me.
However, I had it good in an earlier career: I used to work in data processing for a private college in a previous life:
- $70K a year.
- fancy 401(k),
- full health benefits
- 6 weeks off with pay, the four weeks PLUS a week at Easter and a week at Christmas.
- EVERY Holiday, state or federal.
I typed 72 hours per week, meaning 72 hours per paycheck, which is bi-weekly.
Also, it is 2 weeks vacation until 5 years on the job at full time, - but you get three extra "floater" days per year. This is fine with me.
However, I had it good in an earlier career: I used to work in data processing for a private college in a previous life:
- $70K a year.
- fancy 401(k),
- full health benefits
- 6 weeks off with pay, the four weeks PLUS a week at Easter and a week at Christmas.
- EVERY Holiday, state or federal.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 18th, 2012 at 2:13:15 PM
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All meals are free for dealer, right? BTW, is it true that Gold Coast has the worst tips? I heard, sometimes, a dealer makes $30 per day on tips.
May 18th, 2012 at 2:20:59 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanAlso, you can be termed or "bothered" at work for any reason, and with no recourse.
I agree with you on every other point you bring up here, except this one.
Many people work for an "at-will employer." This means that when you sign on, you can be terminated at any time, for any reason. There are some discrimination laws that exist, but for the most part, they are regarding the hiring side, rather than the actual employment. Besides, it's not in an employers best interest to constantly hire... it can have negative impacts on the service side.
The uniqueness of casino dealers may be the fact that you will be called and accused of the simplest mistakes, in which most jobs don't do that... but most people work for employers who can term you for any reason, any time.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
May 18th, 2012 at 2:22:10 PM
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Yes, meals are free, but the "TDRs" ("Team Member Dining Rooms") vary wildly in quality, from mess halls to decent Buffet quality.
The status of the worst tipping place in Las Vegas varies constantly, amid the competition for that title, but yeah, tips can be $30 to $55 a day at most places, when it used to be twice that prior to 2008. Break-in houses can be $15 to $25 a day in tips on top of minimum wage. You can be living on $350 a week full time as a break-in.
I have to say on behalf of the casino operators that the drop-off in pay comes from the post-recession drop off in customer tipping, not in casino operator frugality. Look, we used to make $6.75/hour + $14.00 in tips, now we make $7.25-$7.75 an hour but with $8 in tips for the same action.
The status of the worst tipping place in Las Vegas varies constantly, amid the competition for that title, but yeah, tips can be $30 to $55 a day at most places, when it used to be twice that prior to 2008. Break-in houses can be $15 to $25 a day in tips on top of minimum wage. You can be living on $350 a week full time as a break-in.
I have to say on behalf of the casino operators that the drop-off in pay comes from the post-recession drop off in customer tipping, not in casino operator frugality. Look, we used to make $6.75/hour + $14.00 in tips, now we make $7.25-$7.75 an hour but with $8 in tips for the same action.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
May 18th, 2012 at 2:30:17 PM
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Quote: TiltpoulI agree with you on every other point you bring up here, except this one.
Many people work for an "at-will employer." This means that when you sign on, you can be terminated at any time, for any reason. There are some discrimination laws that exist, but for the most part, they are regarding the hiring side, rather than the actual employment. Besides, it's not in an employers best interest to constantly hire... it can have negative impacts on the service side.
The uniqueness of casino dealers may be the fact that you will be called and accused of the simplest mistakes, in which most jobs don't do that... but most people work for employers who can term you for any reason, any time.
We don't disagree, we know it is an at-will employment situation.
What I am talking about are some industry-wide instances of employer abuse of the at-will status, not related to "operator 'A' or 'B' or 'C': fabricated or mis-interpreted incidents as a basis for termination to avoid paying for unemployment insurance or settle something, instead of honestly stating the financial reasons for a needed downsizing, with payment of unemployment insurance, and the like. Surveillance department says this, the shift manager says that, floorman/witness says another thing, and dealer ends up holding the bag on some occasions. Some unfairness or abuses may occur. It's not perfect.
Look, the uncensored insider's view is that gaming is often a rude industry for both workers and management, and is considered as such, - except in the general corporate areas that are far away from the casino pit and gaming specific areas (such as marketing, accounting, payroll, data processing and IT, etc...), where things are more in line with general corporate Amerika practices, which can still have politically charged skirmishes.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
July 15th, 2013 at 10:29:07 PM
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Just reading some old pai gow threads and I saw this mention that dealers are fed by their workplace? Really? Is this for all casino employees or just dealers? And is this only in vegas? Getting free food can really help supplement the income. When I worked at harrahs in Arizona we had an employee dining room but we had to pay for the food. Mind you it was pretty cheap, but still free food would have saved me like $200 a month ( assuming I ate lunch before my shift and dinner during or after etc). So paigowdan or any other dealers please chime in.
July 15th, 2013 at 10:31:21 PM
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I don't know of any places in Az that offer free food. My place gives a 25% discount, one meal per shift.
ZCore13
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
July 15th, 2013 at 11:47:30 PM
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Nevada/Las Vegas casino have something known as a TDR, or "Team members Dining Room." An employee's cafeteria. Stations, Boyd, MGM, etc., as policy operate a food service operation for employees. Pretty customary. Workers on break, or before/after work, get a meal or a snack. Buffet style: pork chops or ribs, with greens, mac and cheese, Chicken Wings, burgers, Chinese food, burritos, salads, cake and pudding, whatever. A taxable line item for $45 or so for it is on the paycheck. Graveyard shift workers may get a Denny's or café meal when the dining room kitchen is closed, or only offering snacks, cereal, and coffee/soda.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
July 16th, 2013 at 3:19:23 AM
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Thanks dan
July 16th, 2013 at 4:02:37 AM
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Quote: BeardgoatJust reading some old pai gow threads and I saw this mention that dealers are fed by their workplace? Really? Is this for all casino employees or just dealers? And is this only in vegas? Getting free food can really help supplement the income. When I worked at harrahs in Arizona we had an employee dining room but we had to pay for the food. Mind you it was pretty cheap, but still free food would have saved me like $200 a month ( assuming I ate lunch before my shift and dinner during or after etc). So paigowdan or any other dealers please chime in.
Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods both do this and I just had a conversation about it with a Mohegan Sun dealer. She lives in Rhode Island quite close to Twin River so she applied for and was offered a job there. The hours and pay were comparable while the health care required a little more of a contribution which the fuel saving and 90 minutes less on the road more than made up for.
Her final decision was to stay at Mohegan Sun with the deciding factor being the free food, something that Twin River does not offer. This was huge to her.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
July 16th, 2013 at 4:32:09 AM
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Quote: 1BBHer final decision was to stay at Mohegan Sun with the deciding factor being the free food, something that Twin River does not offer. This was huge to her.
That's pretty interesting--the other day while scanning the tables at Twin River I recognized several dealers from the CT casinos, so when the opportuinty presents itself I'll do a poll and find out what made them leave. I would think the lessened commute/gas savings would trump the food so am surprised by her decision.
