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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 28th, 2011 at 6:53:23 PM permalink
I created a cheat sheet:

Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/pai_gow_tiles_strat_card.GIF

I don't have a color printer, so I use a pink highlghter to color the appropriate pips.

No reason you can't make your own cheat sheet. All the tiles, with correct color and rank, are shown on the Wiz' various PGT Pages.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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March 28th, 2011 at 7:06:26 PM permalink
Very helpful, thanks.

I think the only tricky part (er, most tricky part) is the rank of the tiles.

I think I could go to a casino and hold my own, but I'm still a little bit away from the optimal strategy.
scottndindy
scottndindy
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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March 28th, 2011 at 7:06:55 PM permalink
One of the areas I have had some challenge was determining when to play high 9 vs playing a gong or wong. Could someone explain the reasoning on the strategy behind when to play the different combinations.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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March 28th, 2011 at 7:14:33 PM permalink
Quote: appistappis

mkl654321, in the example above both hands are zero wong, the house way



Are you sure? I was told about this specific hand as an example of when the high 3 or low 3 is crucial to the decision.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
appistappis
appistappis
Joined: Mar 27, 2010
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March 28th, 2011 at 7:16:46 PM permalink
I'm talking the house way, not any playing strategy......I have been dealing tiles for 15 years.
Aussie
Aussie
Joined: Dec 29, 2009
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March 28th, 2011 at 7:52:38 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Are you sure? I was told about this specific hand as an example of when the high 3 or low 3 is crucial to the decision.



It's not crucial to the decision if a Wong, gong or high 9 can be made. They will always play one of these if possible regardless of how bad it makes the low hand. Hands without one of these you are correct.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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March 28th, 2011 at 8:06:10 PM permalink
Quote: Aussie

It's not crucial to the decision if a Wong, gong or high 9 can be made. They will always play one of these if possible regardless of how bad it makes the low hand. Hands without one of these you are correct.



I think that's the difference--House Way is different from optimal player strategy, since the house wins copies. I seem to remember Stanford Wong's analysis (for proper player strategy against the most common House Way) favoring hands like high 3/high 8 over zero/Wong. Playing House Way costs the player a fair amount vs. the optimal player strategy.

I wish I could dredge up a copy of Wong's analyses, but I haven't seen the book for some time. I know his optimal player strategy for Pai Gow Poker was often surprisingly counterintuitive.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Aussie
Aussie
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March 29th, 2011 at 2:52:14 AM permalink
I have never read any of Wong's analysis but I doubt he would have come up with 3-8 being the best play. According to the Wizard's Pai Gow calculator 0-Wong is the best play with an EV of -0.18. 3-8 comes in well behind at -0.36. 0-Wong is definitely how I would play it too.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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March 29th, 2011 at 10:18:50 AM permalink
Quote: Aussie

I have never read any of Wong's analysis but I doubt he would have come up with 3-8 being the best play. According to the Wizard's Pai Gow calculator 0-Wong is the best play with an EV of -0.18. 3-8 comes in well behind at -0.36. 0-Wong is definitely how I would play it too.



What about the difference between house and player strategies? 0/Wong is an automatic loser for the player if the dealer has the same Wong or better in back, but is an automatic push for the house if the player has the same Wong or worse in back, plus, the house wins if the player sets Wong/Gong/9 (etc.)-zero. I would think that the house winning all those big/zero hand-to-hand confrontations would make zero-Wong a LOT more attractive for the house, and conversely, a LOT less attractive for the player.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Aussie
Aussie
Joined: Dec 29, 2009
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March 29th, 2011 at 3:45:03 PM permalink
I'm aware of how the game works re: 0 hands for the player. I'm just telling you what the Wizard's own calculator says about the hands. Unless you're saying the Wizard (not a mathematical novice by any means) is wrong then 0-Wong is the correct play from an EV point of view and by a considerable margin. But if you want to give up near 0.2 of a bet in EV every time that comes up then be my guest (particularly if I'm taking the bank at the same table).

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