AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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December 9th, 2021 at 6:21:44 PM permalink
I just got a call from my Host at one of the Vegas casinos. The call was in response to my email about why certain players were showing up at craps games with promo chips? If there was a promotion I wanted in on it.

Well, I was told that at several Vegas casinos Baccarat players get promo chips for other games when they have a loss of $10k or more.

So I asked, why only Baccarat? Why are Baccarat players -- who have some of the lowest house edges in a casino -- getting loss rebates but there aren't at other table games including craps, carnival games and even blackjack?

The Host couldn't answer my question about Baccarat players only but promised to check and get me an answer.

The host rattled off a list where the Baccarat rebates are available.
MDawg
MDawg
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December 9th, 2021 at 6:36:43 PM permalink
What I've found with the comps such as promo chips, Visa gift cards, promo "dollars," online shopping sprees, is that they pile up much more due to theoretical loss than actual. My hosts at various properties confirmed what I already discovered.

And in general, given that actual loss is comp'ed at a mere 10% while theo at 35% or even more, you're just not going to get much by losing at casinos compared to playing and winning or breaking even. And that's why the guy who loses five grand at the tables gets a pittance in comps while the guy who breaks even or wins and plays enough hours at a good average gets a lot more.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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SanchoPanza
December 9th, 2021 at 6:41:20 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

What I've found with the comps such as promo chips, Visa gift cards, promo "dollars," online shopping sprees, is that they pile up much more due to theoretical loss than actual. My hosts at various properties confirmed what I already discovered.

And in general, given that actual loss is comp'ed at a mere 10% while theo at 35% or even more, you're just not going to get much by losing at casinos compared to playing and winning or breaking even. And that's why the guy who loses five grand at the tables gets a pittance in comps while the guy who breaks even or wins and plays enough hours at a good average gets a lot more.
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Then why dont craps players get the rebates? Their theoretical losses are higher.
MDawg
MDawg
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December 9th, 2021 at 6:51:00 PM permalink
I don't play craps, but I do get comps including at times promo chips for my blackjack play.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
darkoz
darkoz
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December 9th, 2021 at 6:59:06 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Quote: MDawg

What I've found with the comps such as promo chips, Visa gift cards, promo "dollars," online shopping sprees, is that they pile up much more due to theoretical loss than actual. My hosts at various properties confirmed what I already discovered.

And in general, given that actual loss is comp'ed at a mere 10% while theo at 35% or even more, you're just not going to get much by losing at casinos compared to playing and winning or breaking even. And that's why the guy who loses five grand at the tables gets a pittance in comps while the guy who breaks even or wins and plays enough hours at a good average gets a lot more.
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Then why dont craps players get the rebates? Their theoretical losses are higher.
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I don't think he knows what he is talking about truthfully.

I think he is confusing Theo loss playthrough with actual loss.

For example let's say for you to achieve a Theo of $1000 you need to do $10,000 coin in.

But due to horrible variance, you lose $1000 quickly with only $2,000 coin in.

Your actual loss is the same as the Theo the casino wants but you didn't achieve the Theo based on variance and a $10,000 coin in requirement.

OTOH, if you had lost $1,000 just as you made $10,000 coin in your comps would have been comparable.

That doesn't mean people who have actual losses get treated worse. Just that the casino is looking at Theo only as their guide.

He's on the right track but missing the forest for the trees IMO.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
MDawg
MDawg
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December 9th, 2021 at 7:06:30 PM permalink
Like trying to tell the Pope he's not Catholic. You've heard of the Pope. You've heard of the Pope of Greenwich Village. I'm the Pope of Las Vegas.

You play slots. Stick to that.

Actual loss is the same as theo loss? Not usually.

Tables games is where it's at.

In any case, the way comps work is that the host calculates actual loss (10%), and theo loss (at 35% or more), and whichever benefits the player more is what the player gets in comps. It is conceivable that both might come in at the exact same number, but not usually the way it ends up.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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MDawgHunterhill
December 9th, 2021 at 7:19:31 PM permalink
Craps players, at least some, got rebates in the past in LV before Ivey got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. They thought he was a degen and a stiff but he played the rebates fast and hard.
darkoz
darkoz
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December 9th, 2021 at 7:45:49 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Like trying to tell the Pope he's not Catholic. You've heard of the Pope. You've heard of the Pope of Greenwich Village. I'm the Pope of Las Vegas.

You play slots. Stick to that.

Actual loss is the same as theo loss? Not usually.

Tables games is where it's at.

In any case, the way comps work is that the host calculates actual loss (10%), and theo loss (at 35% or more), and whichever benefits the player more is what the player gets in comps. It is conceivable that both might come in at the exact same number, but not usually the way it ends up.
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While it's possible super high rollers may have hosts doing calculations, I am 99.9999% certain hosts don't calculate anything.

It's all driven by software. And the software isn't figuring out what's in the players best interests. It's just doing it's calculation by predetermined algorithms.

The idea that hosts are sitting calculating all of their patrons comps just shows that table games or slots, you aren't understanding the process.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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December 9th, 2021 at 7:56:16 PM permalink
My hosts at Caesars, Bellagio and Red Rock never calculated anything. Comps, promotions, etc came from marketing departments.
MDawg
MDawg
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pwcrabb
December 9th, 2021 at 7:58:23 PM permalink
The numbers are calculated based on what is input by the pit bosses at the tables.

But all comps are entered manually by hosts, which is where the decision as to whether to go with actual or theo loss comes in, and also the decision on whether to bump up (or in some cases, down), the comps. How many times have you experienced this process? Me, thousands of times, maybe...tens of thousands of times. At the low end, some comps come off the bill automatically, but for the most part, the host has to clean up the bill at the end of the stay, and that is all done manually, line item by line item. Even something as mundane as resort fees don't just comp off automatically at all properties, the host has to clean them off the bill at many properties.

If you'd like to learn more about this, feel free to ask. Otherwise, it seems that you have it all decided upstairs so, why should anyone bother to explain to you how it really works? You're all set and know everything. I'm talking to DarkOz not AlanMendelson.

But I'm the Pope of Las Vegas. Don't forget that, even if you choose not to listen to me.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

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