jml24
jml24
Joined: Feb 28, 2011
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August 5th, 2015 at 3:56:36 PM permalink
I remembered this situation when reading another recent thread regarding a dragon hand, but this is a different situation. My wife and I were playing PGP at the Mirage and we were the only two players at the table. The first hand, I had crap and asked if I could play the dragon. The dealer told me I could not because we were together. On many other occasions at various casinos we have been at a table together and either of us has played the dragon with no issue.

Is this a common restriction on the playing of the dragon? Does anyone think we could really gain enough information from knowing the contents of two hands to play at an advantage? Obviously the Mirage is worried about it.

If it were possible to gain an advantage I would think 5 players at a table would be better at identifying situations where the dragon is likely to be a big hand. A team of 5 with 4 playing min and one big bettor would be able to make the big bet on the dragon whenever it were favorable. However, even in that scenario it seems like it would be difficult to gain enough of an advantage on the dragon to overcome the losses on all the hands. A favorable dragon isn't going to come along that often. It also seems like the dealer has the big hand equally as often as the dragon. Finally, even if it did work it would be very obvious.

So, why the paranoia?
MaxPen
MaxPen
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August 5th, 2015 at 4:48:34 PM permalink
Some couple probably got lucky on the dragon hand and an ignorant power got spooked, then made up a new house rule.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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August 5th, 2015 at 5:00:26 PM permalink
This is a bizarre ruling to me. I play 2 hands at the Mirage every time I'm in Vegas, with no problem or pushback from them. At times, I've been with other people ("together"). But I don't play the dragon, so while it seems very similar a situation to me (I see two hands every deal), it may just be that I don't grasp the issue.

Maybe they're assuming or observing the two of you seeing/consulting on each other's hands while you play, so from their POV you do have too much info, virtually setting a third hand. I do know that when I play two, I'm ineligible for a dragon (third hand) everywhere, not just at the Mirage.

Knowing where a majority of the aces/jokers, even where the kings are, could figure into a strategic set on the dragon on some hands. Not that you had them on that particular hand, but if they let you once, then they always do, and so perhaps you can take advantage of the opportunity down the road.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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August 6th, 2015 at 11:10:02 AM permalink
Quote: jml24

I remembered this situation when reading another recent thread regarding a dragon hand, but this is a different situation. My wife and I were playing PGP at the Mirage and we were the only two players at the table. The first hand, I had crap and asked if I could play the dragon. The dealer told me I could not because we were together. On many other occasions at various casinos we have been at a table together and either of us has played the dragon with no issue.

Is this a common restriction on the playing of the dragon? Does anyone think we could really gain enough information from knowing the contents of two hands to play at an advantage? Obviously the Mirage is worried about it.

If it were possible to gain an advantage I would think 5 players at a table would be better at identifying situations where the dragon is likely to be a big hand. A team of 5 with 4 playing min and one big bettor would be able to make the big bet on the dragon whenever it were favorable. However, even in that scenario it seems like it would be difficult to gain enough of an advantage on the dragon to overcome the losses on all the hands. A favorable dragon isn't going to come along that often. It also seems like the dealer has the big hand equally as often as the dragon. Finally, even if it did work it would be very obvious.

So, why the paranoia?



My wife and I have played four hands at once with lots of collusion going on. I was not allowed how to tell my wife how to set a hand but there was enough knowledge based on being able to LOOK at my wife's cards for me to set my hands differently (for example setting a pair: K-Q instead of pair-pair if all the aces were out) Because the DRAGON bet can be played after you set your hand there is probably enough knowledge on how to set the Dragon Hand or a higher probability that the dragon hand will contain certain cards that your cards did not contain.

Still paranoia I think though.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
ahiromu
ahiromu
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
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August 6th, 2015 at 11:41:19 AM permalink
Casinos are way too paranoid for a game with an HE of 2.5%.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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August 6th, 2015 at 2:10:35 PM permalink
The dealer hand has the same potential as the Dragon hand so this is an ignorant rule by the casino.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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August 6th, 2015 at 2:23:52 PM permalink
What an absurd rule
They have a huge advantage if its a 5% commission game which is pretty common.
Its a real social game, very common for people to ask for help and show their hand to everybody.
No secrets in pai gow poker.
In regular poker, hand security is paramount.
Pai gow, you are spreading your cards out in a hand that usually a neighbor can glance over and see what you have.
I've had nosy neighbors, I get a hand that can be played 2 ways and take my time, a nosy neighbor wants to know what I have.
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
ahiromu
ahiromu
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August 6th, 2015 at 5:44:10 PM permalink
I am at Gold Coast and the dealers had no issue whatsoever with the woman next to me laying her entire hand on the table to get help. Most casinos would frown on this, some would yell at you, it was nice to have dealers and supervisors that just didn't care.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
andysif
andysif
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August 6th, 2015 at 6:03:56 PM permalink
OK, I agree that the chance of you getting whatever card is the same as the dealer.

But is it possible that after so many cards are out, you would be able to guess what the dealer has and then change your play?

Maybe you had 3 of a kind and a pair and you know he is likely to get a flush. You decided to play a full house instead?
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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August 6th, 2015 at 7:43:47 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

I am at Gold Coast and the dealers had no issue whatsoever with the woman next to me laying her entire hand on the table to get help. Most casinos would frown on this, some would yell at you, it was nice to have dealers and supervisors that just didn't care.



I see this nearly everywhere I play as well, but usually the player is asked to wait (if the cards are exposed to other players) until the others have set their hands.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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