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Okienst111
Okienst111
Joined: Feb 8, 2014
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February 9th, 2014 at 6:05:27 PM permalink
Hello I have a question my buddy's and I had a boys weekend to Vegas on Super Bowl weekend. We all enjoy playing the ultimate Texas hold'em game well we were staying at Paris so we played there and I noticed that they deal the 5 community cards first then there 2 cards to the dealer and so on to the players. My question is this the new way the game is dealt and does it change the odds being dealt this way?
Deucekies
Deucekies
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
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February 9th, 2014 at 6:10:30 PM permalink
They dealt the cards to the dealer before they dealt to any of the players?

This is a curious difference. Statistically it should not make any difference, but it does go against the official rules literature put out by Shufflemaster.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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February 9th, 2014 at 6:11:06 PM permalink
Quote: Okienst111

Hello I have a question my buddy's and I had a boys weekend to Vegas on Super Bowl weekend. We all enjoy playing the ultimate Texas hold'em game well we were staying at Paris so we played there and I noticed that they deal the 5 community cards first then there 2 cards to the dealer and so on to the players. My question is this the new way the game is dealt and does it change the odds being dealt this way?



Not a game protection specialist, but from a player standpoint, I like that they're doing it as you describe, because people coming in and out of the game will not affect the cards on the board or in the dealer's hand. (It still will effect what you're dealt unless you're sitting first base; it might even have been in response to heavy play for first base that they do this there.) It also would make it slightly less of an issue if players touch their cards before the full deal is complete, because if they're going to foul the hand through exposing or miscounting either the dealer's or the board's cards, they will have done it before they have given out cards that now have to be forfeited back.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
BTLWI
BTLWI
Joined: Nov 6, 2013
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February 10th, 2014 at 12:49:42 PM permalink
As a poker player I like the outs strategy. I've already been calculating how many outs dealer has to beat my hand but never knew what target number would be to call or fold at.
jopke
jopke
Joined: Aug 14, 2012
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January 20th, 2015 at 2:25:55 PM permalink
On the WOO page for UTH, in the section regarding counting outs, you state this:
Quote:

For each rank on the board there are three more that can beat you. For example, if the dealer has the jack of hearts, diamonds, or spades he will pair up and beat you. So, 5×3=15 cards will give the dealer a hidden pair. Also, all four queens and aces will beat you. So, 15+8=23 cards will beat you. If the dealer has one of the three remaining tens, then you'll lose lose. That brings us to 26. You need to have less than 21 outs to stay in, so fold.



This states that if the dealer has a Ten, you "lose lose". First, I think you have an extra "lose" in there.

But that isn't necessarily a true statement. Sometimes you'll push. Also, in the original post, you use that hand as an example and report 23 outs.

What is the correct technique? I've always just counted single card outs, ignoring kickers.
TriathlonTodd
TriathlonTodd
Joined: Jan 23, 2015
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January 26th, 2015 at 4:12:04 AM permalink
Just a nitpick thing, Wiz, but you never specifically address pairs in your 4X section. When people read the rest of the rest of the strategy, they might figure out to raise with pocket pairs of 3 or higher, but they also might not come to that conclusion.
jopke
jopke
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January 26th, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM permalink
Quote: TriathlonTodd

Just a nitpick thing, Wiz, but you never specifically address pairs in your 4X section. When people read the rest of the rest of the strategy, they might figure out to raise with pocket pairs of 3 or higher, but they also might not come to that conclusion.



It is there in the strategy, just text below the colorful chart. Easy to miss.
jopke
jopke
Joined: Aug 14, 2012
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January 26th, 2015 at 7:59:25 PM permalink
Actually, right now when I go to the UTH page, I get an error.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_STRING in /home/wizardofodds/wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/index.php on line 8
Sandybestdog
Sandybestdog
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
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February 3rd, 2015 at 10:35:25 AM permalink
Hi I've read a lot on these forum's but this is my first time posting. I was wondering if anybody has been successful playing ultimate Texas hold'em? I started playing blackjack about a year ago (thinking that was the only game at the casino to make money) and have come to realize that it requires a large bankroll (I'm guessing $10,000 would be a start if I were to spread $10-$50) and even in the best case scenarios the edges are very small. I live in Maryland and the Maryland, Pennsylvania and Delaware casino's all have very good blackjack rules. As I wandered around playing blackjack, I would see the poker games. I didn't know anything about them but when I would watch, I would notice that the way they were dealt, the dealer would often inadvertently flash a hole card. I did a little research and found that there is about a decent edge in UTH if you know what one of the dealers hole cards is. I started playing about 2 months ago. My first few sessions were decent and lost no more than $50 and made about $50-$150 on the others. This is simply betting $5 on the ante and blind, no side bets. It's funny, in blackjack people kind of hate it when you play the side bets but in these poker games the whole table (including the dealer) gets mad at you when you don't play them. I hit a 4 of a kind once and it wasn't pretty.

But in the past month, my sessions have been -$400, -$350, -$200, -$200, and -$130. I can honestly say that in all of that play, I didn't even have one upswing of more than $75. I've heard people say that they like UTH because it's less volatile than blackjack. They're right. Instead of going up and down like in blackjack, you just go straight down. There you go, less volatile. It seems to be the common theme at the table. It doesn't seem that anybody is ever coming out ahead. Sure they don't play correctly but it seems to save them money cause that ace doesn't do you any good when the dealer always seems to have a 5 to connect a straight. Last night I won 4 out of 10 4X raises, the time before, probably only 4 out of 12. Everytime you lose, you lose $30, everytime you win, you only win $20-$25. I feel the blind bet is the real killer. It's just at such a disadvantage.

So I did some testing. I took a single deck and shuffled and dealt them just like they do at the casino. Even with perfect hole card info, I can't get the game to turn positive. After 600 test hands, I wound up down about $200. The high was $200 and the low was -$500. I realize this isn't a great sample, but it gives you a pretty decent example. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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February 3rd, 2015 at 4:38:54 PM permalink
I have played quite a lot of UTH. In my opinion, it is more volatile than Blackjack. Definitely more fun. And very lucrative.

I don't play without the Trips bet. Which may cause you to disregard anything else I say, but that's where I make my money, along with a very aggressive betting strategy that freaks most people out, but IMO is the only way to win at this game. If you play this strategy, it gets the Element of Risk down around .5. The Las Vegas Advisor sells the strategy card for $5. I highly recommend it.

I'm too tall to get away with hole-carding, so I don't even try. But adding hole carding to the aggressive strategy would give the player a big advantage, if the info is used correctly. I think the web site apheat has a pretty good discussion on just how much it adds, and I would suggest you check there. Be sure to read the blog entry in the link for UTH in that alphabetical listing.

UTH strategy is also discussed in great detail at WizardofOdds.com , a sister site to this one. Look especially hard at the advice on how to play kickers.

Also be sure you're looking for opportunities to play the board for a push, because it can be hard to see, but boards like 2 pair + a 10, or 3OAK plus 2 face cards, are times to bet with nothing in your hand. This will become apparent if you start counting your kickers per WoO advice, but most players miss these and fold.

Based on your description of your play, I would guess you're folding too early on a few hands, combined with not being aggressive enough on your 4x and 2x bets. But that's totally my SWAG, because that's what I see a lot; this game is different from nearly all the rest in that you have to bet exactly as the strategy card says, with the refinement of playing the kickers correctly, and let the math do the work for you. No psyche bets, no trend bets, no backing off your aces when the dealer's filling gutshot straights.

Good luck.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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