These Shoes Are Made For Talkin'......
IMO the op needs / seeks attention far greater than holding any advantage playing the game of Baccarat. This is based on 5 yrs of reading posts based on nothing but gamblers fallacy, using figures which stem from a post I made at a defunct site and communicating via emails.
It's worth noting that strip away any addicted gamblers beliefs, you then leave them with nothing, having to face reality, which is how you end up with crazed posters which have appeared on various gambling forums over the years. Deluded people will fight until the bitter end rather than forsake their beliefs. The more you ignore, don't accept, don't buy in to, the more outlandish, grandiose the claims become, already somebody has been dropping "unit size" hints
Quote: Mission146
2.) The second problem is that the information Gr8Player has provided, even if correct, is completely unhelpful.
.
If I had to distill your post down to one sentence, this
would be it. Egalite and I have seen GR8's act for years,
thousands of posts. He never presents any really
useful info and he never submits to tests of any kind.
He's an attention junkie, he wants to be the bac expert.
That's whats at the bottom of all this.
Quote: EvenBobHe's an attention junkie, he wants to be the bac expert.
That's whats at the bottom of all this.
I will add that to my list of 'wants to be the experts'... we've had a few. I think there's few games left up for grabs though...
Quote: thecesspitWhy bother coming back? No-one here shows any sign of believing a word you say.
I'm not sure that you should be speaking for all members, thecesspit. There are those that do see inherent value in many of my posts.
Quote: JeepsterThis whole gr8player shambles can be all boiled down to one simple failing.
If a person cannot grasp the math of baccarat then all the following will make sense to him.
Past results mean something.
Trends can be used.
Money management can help.
Bet selection is an art.
Skills can be utilized.
House edge can be overcome.
The player has an advantage
Progressions work.
Long term means nothing.
Until the math of baccarat is understood by the player then the above will be gospel to him, nothing you can say or explain will shake his beliefs.
Losses will be put down to loss of concentration or bad judgement, not the math.
Wins will credited to skill, not luck.
Many roulette players are just as delusional.
Hello, Jeepster, and thank you for taking both the time and the interest to post your opinions.
I think you're off-base in using the term "delusional". What I do and how I play are rather "real", there is no "slight of hand" involved.
I totally understand the math of the game, and what it is that I'm up against with every single wager I make at the table.
But to simply dismiss my counter-points to that daunted house edge is to, IMHO, diminish their importance. And it diminishes my personal approach to this game, as well. For I am a firm believer in the player's personal approach to the game....their psyche, their mindset, heck, even their personal reasons to play....says as much about the player's chances for success as anything else might.
Is it an absolute must that "math trumps brain", always? Is it written in stone that the math cannot be overcome, no matter what the brain does to counter it?
I respect those that answer those questions in the affirmative, just know that I've equal respect for those that choose to utilize their own "brain".
Quote: Mission146Gr8Player endeavors to convince us that he is able to use trends and bet selection to beat the game of Baccarat. Gr8Player maintains that there is an inherent House Edge working against him in the game of Baccarat, yet with these strategies, the House Edge can be overcome and it turns into a player edge.
Solution
I wouldn't mind putting the baby to bed, though. If Gr8Player wishes to educate us, then I would be happy to hand deal the equivalent of a Baccarat shoe with either six or eight decks, and Gr8Player could tell us where he would bet, what he would bet, and why? After that, if he's interested, we'll deal five more shoes...and it will take some time...only Gr8Player has to make, "Bets," without knowing the results of the hands. I won't even know them, I'll lock the decks of cards up when the game is not in progress. It will take a while, and no actual money will be on the line, but education through demonstration is one of the most effective forms education can take...so this will be Gr8Player's opportunity to educate us, since that is what he seems to want.
Mission146, well said, my friend, and written as a gentleman. And so I accept your proposition. Let's do it; I'll play out some shoes for you, and you can post the results for all to view, but I must respectfully request you to refrain from publicly revealing anything regarding my specific plays and/or money management, at least not without my prior permission to do so.
(Sidenote: And please bear in mind that I have limited computer access, so we'll need to work the schedule of play around that fact.)
In that case, I would like to pronounce myself as the forth most authority on a game not to dissimilar to Baccarat, as in highest score wins.Quote: thecesspitI will add that to my list of 'wants to be the experts'... we've had a few. I think there's few games left up for grabs though...
"Casino War", having never lost playing this game, is enough of a testament. My edge is 50% until a stand off, but my MM prowess and steel like discipline, are just enough to have got me past the finish line. My rock-solid advice is not to attempt to play this game for more than an hour tops, as it is dealt way too fast.
Forget all this mansy pansy counting marlarky, complicated drawing rules, 10's = nothing, since when has a KING ranked lower than a deuce? A Deuce being higher than an Ace, what kind of joke were those Parisian monks from the Orient trying to pull?
If Baccarat is the game of Kings, then casino war is the game of Queens and luck is a lady never a a fella.
Wish you the best of it.
Quote: gr8playerbut I must respectfully request you to refrain from publicly revealing anything regarding my specific plays and/or money management, at least not without my prior permission to do so.
But why, teacher?? Please don't hide anything. We want to see your greatness since you are the world's foremost expert on everything baccarat!
Quote: gr8playerQuote: Mission146Gr8Player could tell us where he would bet, what he would bet, and why?.
I must respectfully request you to refrain from publicly revealing anything regarding my specific plays and/or money management, at least not without my prior permission to do so.
The whole challenge proposed was to explicitly reveal this information.
Trend each side individually, what did the Bank / Player do last time and the time before that? Did they fill the 2nd, 3rd holes, how long has it been since a chop run? When chops start, go with them, as you will only lose one bet when they stop, unless of course it's stop-start-stop-start.
Bet FLD if the 2nd/3rd hole have been populated in the prior two columns, this carries a whopping (or whopper) 6~7% positive EV. If that's not working for ya, trying some anti-trend plays (these for advanced moves for experienced players only), alternatively sit on hands to resist any overwhelming urges to place a bet.
If everything was revealed casino's will take away the game as everybody will be ranked "expected to win", game over, end of. Then all the frustrated Baccarat players would impinge on my own action at the 'casino war' tables, can't be having none of that..
Quote: gr8player
Is it an absolute must that "math trumps brain", always? Is it written in stone that the math cannot be overcome, no matter what the brain does to counter it?.
Dear Mr GR8player,
I am so tired of listening to you spout off about nothing and saying how you are able to "out think" the math of the game. I know that you have been challenged and never answered the question. I would like to sweeten the deal; I will offer you odds (if you agree) that you can not "beat" this game in the long term. I just have a few questions for you.
1. What do you consider the long term, how many resolved wagers? I assume that you are saying you can beat this game in the long term.
2. If a trusted member would agree to run the program and hold any funds I would have no problem with this. Any takers?
3. I do not care what system you are using, you have to reveal no details to anyone but the programmer to input the parameters.
4. Let me know what odds you want and how much action.
5. Do you accept?
After official acceptance we will work out all the details in a thread so there is no misunderstanding between us. You could not ask for a better EV+ situation if you can do what you say you do.
I must respectfully decline your offer.
You see, my friend, there simply are no "parameters for the programmer to input" as they pertain to my Baccarat play; my play is much too subjective. I measure the current conditions and react accordingly. Me, personally. Based upon my personal statistics and experience. I even switch up my money management techniques "on the fly" based upon my current variances. Ain't no "program" gonna do my play justice....
To my knowledge, there exists no "mechanical" method that will produce a positive result when tested over long term play.
Good luck trying to find someone who'll take you up on your proposal.
In no way was I trying to get myself or anyone else in trouble. I by no means would want this forum to get shut down as I like the information and entertainment it provides me. If I was out of line in any way in my previous post please feel free to flag or remove it as the forum sees fit. I was sure he would decline the offer so no contract would be made to execute and no wager would be made.
GR8Player - So am I correct in interpreting your response as follows:
You are taking wild ass guesses with different amounts of money that follow no particular set of rules based on past results? To top this off you are able to calculate all of this instantly in your head using these mythical stats you have kept over the years without error to win at this game in the long run?
Yeah....... that seems like a plausible explanation to me. I look forward to the result of the Mission tests of several shoes. I have a strange feeling that this will never take place.
Just for the record if you reconsider the offer above stands. I did not extend this special offer to anyone but you as you continually assert that you can win in the long term.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions with well reasoned responses.
Slack
I'm not a mod or really anybody, which is why I wrote with such caution. I don't think anybody crossed the line, and it wasn't you specifically, it was the aggregate conversation. There's only 3 identified mods who can't see everything right away and new people on here all the time who might not understand the difference as it is a site about gambling, so I chimed in through what was perhaps an excess of caution. Thanks for the response.
Quote: gr8playerDear Mr SlackJawYokel,
I must respectfully decline your offer.
Please don't decline another challenge, teacher! You are the world's foremost expert on everything baccarat, and we want to see you in action!!
Take care, and I wish it all for you, my friend.
Quote: gr8playerThere are those that do see inherent value in many of my posts.
Naw, you really can't line the litter box with internet posts.
Quote: Beethoven9thBut why, teacher?? Please don't hide anything. We want to see your greatness since you are the world's foremost expert on everything baccarat!
You're just a mean person. I really like you..
Quote: beachbumbabsI am no expert on this, but there seems to be a hard-money bet shaping up, which puts this public forum into territory it can't venture. May I respectfully suggest those interested exchange emails via PM and take it offline before anyone posts something that will get the forum shut down? Unless I'm misunderstanding the law and over-reacting, which is entirely possible; Mission has been very careful about handling the NFL picks pool and this seems similar to me. You're welcome to correct my understanding if this is harmless territory.
There are no laws that I know of that prohibit one person from making a wager against another person. Are you trying to say you've never bet someone something? Generally most States have laws against wagers where the "house" takes a cut or where the gambling is organized. School kids would be arrested if making bets with another person was against the law.
ZCore13
You're in the business and I'm not, so I absolutely am not an authority. It's just the last 10 posts or so appeared to me to be, as a group, one step away from an organized bet via this forum, which could then be considered hosting internet gambling without a license if someone wanted to cause a problem. I lost some money when Congress shut down all the US access to poker and gambling sites, as many people did, and I have concerns about that legislation affecting this issue. I'll be quiet now, as I've said my piece, and if I'm wrong, my apologies to all.
Quote: beachbumbabsZcore,
one step away from an organized bet via this forum, .
The only good bet is that GR8 will never ever
accept any kind of challenge, public or private.
Quote: beachbumbabsIt's just the last 10 posts or so appeared to me to be, as a group, one step away from an organized bet via this forum, which could then be considered hosting internet gambling without a license if someone wanted to cause a problem.
I'm not an attorney, so I could be way off base, but if any illegal gambling did occur, the people who should be worried are the participants. (For example, if someone posts a message on my Facebook profile threatening my life, the authorities would go after the person, not Facebook.)
Quote: Beethoven9thI'm not an attorney, so I could be way off base, but if any illegal gambling did occur, the people who should be worried are the participants. (For example, if someone posts a message on my Facebook profile threatening my life, the authorities would go after the person, not Facebook.)
What if the police were happy? :)
ZCore13
Quote: beachbumbabsI am no expert on this, but there seems to be a hard-money bet shaping up, which puts this public forum into territory it can't venture. May I respectfully suggest those interested exchange emails via PM and take it offline before anyone posts something that will get the forum shut down? Unless I'm misunderstanding the law and over-reacting, which is entirely possible; Mission has been very careful about handling the NFL picks pool and this seems similar to me. You're welcome to correct my understanding if this is harmless territory.
I definitely appreciate your concern, but there is no liability for the Forum for the same reason, chiefly because we're not handling any of the money or in any way booking the action.
Quote: gr8player
Mission146, well said, my friend, and written as a gentleman. And so I accept your proposition. Let's do it; I'll play out some shoes for you, and you can post the results for all to view, but I must respectfully request you to refrain from publicly revealing anything regarding my specific plays and/or money management, at least not without my prior permission to do so.
(Sidenote: And please bear in mind that I have limited computer access, so we'll need to work the schedule of play around that fact.)
Thank you for the compliment. I would like to clarify your stipulations a little bit, as the primary purpose was to try to understand exactly what your betting strategy is all about, as opposed to whether you win or lose. You could win all five shoes or lose all five shoes, and that wouldn't conclusively prove anything either way.
As far as the plays are concerned, if you didn't want to get into why you made a specific play, but in order to post the results, I'd clearly have to identify what the play was. For instance, your options would pretty much be, "Banker," "Player," "Tie," or, "Sit Out," and then the amount bet. Your money management strategy, by necessity, would be revealed (even if not explicitly explained) by virtue of the fact that each bet would be documented.
I also agree that it would take a while to play out. The first one would be quick, because the goal of that was for me to give you the results of the entire shoe ahead of time and you just go through and tell me what you would do, and why. The last five shoes would take a while because I'd have to wait for you to either declare a bet or that you were sitting out for each individual hand.
Quote: gr8playerI'm not sure that you should be speaking for all members, thecesspit. There are those that do see inherent value in many of my posts.
"Why bother coming back? No-one here shows any sign of believing a word you say"
On the contrary, only a wise man would believe
each and every word that gr8player has posted. It is by far the best advice I have read on baccarat in 3 forums. Having personally read them on GG and the now gone BF in the past. My play is based on what he " preaches" (patience, variance stats, etc. )
There may be other ways to gain an edge over the long run and I'm sure many member of this forum have done so in one way or another. But gr8player style suits me to a tee.
I am forever grateful for all the insight that I have gained and hope he continues to reveal his knowledge on Baccarat.
Speaking for the silent majority (read: lurkers) I can't thank you enough.
Success to all!
Quote: rwnyc1"Why bother coming back? No-one here shows any sign of believing a word you say"
On the contrary, only a wise man would believe
each and every word that gr8player has posted. It is by far the best advice I have read on baccarat in 3 forums. Having personally read them on GG and the now gone BF in the past. My play is based on what he " preaches" (patience, variance stats, etc. )
There may be other ways to gain an edge over the long run and I'm sure many member of this forum have done so in one way or another. But gr8player style suits me to a tee.
I am forever grateful for all the insight that I have gained and hope he continues to reveal his knowledge on Baccarat.
Speaking for the silent majority (read: lurkers) I can't thank you enough.
Success to all!
Welcome to the forum. Maybe you can provide some incite into what the hell he is actually saying since it seems to have worked for you. All he has provided here is Wizard of Oz behind the curtain stuff.
Quote: rwnyc1"Why bother coming back? No-one here shows any sign of believing a word you say"
On the contrary, only a wise man would believe
each and every word that gr8player has posted. It is by far the best advice I have read on baccarat in 3 forums. Having personally read them on GG and the now gone BF in the past. My play is based on what he " preaches" (patience, variance stats, etc. )
There may be other ways to gain an edge over the long run and I'm sure many member of this forum have done so in one way or another. But gr8player style suits me to a tee.
I am forever grateful for all the insight that I have gained and hope he continues to reveal his knowledge on Baccarat.
Speaking for the silent majority (read: lurkers) I can't thank you enough.
Success to all!
How come all these people pop up out of nowhere to defend my teacher???
Quote: rwnyc1Speaking for the silent majority (read: lurkers) I can't thank you enough.
How can you speak for the majority if they are silent?
(sigh)
Quote: egaliteLOL, hasn't he already posted his 1-ville, 2-ville, 3-ville parlay, part parlay stuff in previous posts.
Trend each side individually, what did the Bank / Player do last time and the time before that? Did they fill the 2nd, 3rd holes, how long has it been since a chop run? When chops start, go with them, as you will only lose one bet when they stop, unless of course it's stop-start-stop-start.
Bet FLD if the 2nd/3rd hole have been populated in the prior two columns, this carries a whopping (or whopper) 6~7% positive EV. If that's not working for ya, trying some anti-trend plays (these for advanced moves for experienced players only), alternatively sit on hands to resist any overwhelming urges to place a bet.
If everything was revealed casino's will take away the game as everybody will be ranked "expected to win", game over, end of. Then all the frustrated Baccarat players would impinge on my own action at the 'casino war' tables, can't be having none of that..
So it really is just like I said: The secret is to be really really good at guessing numbers.
Quote: rwnyc1It is by far the best advice I have read on baccarat in 3 forums.
As the only person here who understands, can you
please translate the message GR8 is giving us so we
can all understand and appreciate it? Thanks in advance.
Quote: Mission146I definitely appreciate your concern, but there is no liability for the Forum for the same reason, chiefly because we're not handling any of the money or in any way booking the action.
Mission,
Thanks so much for clarifying this. I apologize to all for the false alarm. Carry on.
Quote: rwnyc1"Why bother coming back? No-one here shows any sign of believing a word you say"
On the contrary, only a wise man would believe
each and every word that gr8player has posted. It is by far the best advice I have read on baccarat in 3 forums. Having personally read them on GG and the now gone BF in the past. My play is based on what he " preaches" (patience, variance stats, etc. )
There may be other ways to gain an edge over the long run and I'm sure many member of this forum have done so in one way or another. But gr8player style suits me to a tee.
I am forever grateful for all the insight that I have gained and hope he continues to reveal his knowledge on Baccarat.
Speaking for the silent majority (read: lurkers) I can't thank you enough.
Success to all!
rwnyc1, how've you been, my friend? Been a while....I trust all is well with you. Thank you for taking the time to post your opinions, they're much appreciated. Hmmm, perhaps that statement needs clarification....they're much appreciated by some. There are others in this forum that simply cannot stomach the fact that there are Baccarat players that have gleaned much from our discourses regarding this game, and worse, that someone might actually post here about it. It took a bit of courage on your part, rwnyc1, to convey your positive opinions about me here in this forum where, let's face it, "negativity reigns supreme" regarding same.
Thanks again, and be well, my friend.....here's hoping that your success at this game is never-ending.
Quote: BozWelcome to the forum. Maybe you can provide some incite into what the hell he is actually saying since it seems to have worked for you. All he has provided here is Wizard of Oz behind the curtain stuff.
Hello, Boz.
My advice is just in front of you, ripe for the picking, for those that wish to do so.
You see, Boz, it's as much about mind-set as it is about anything else. And those that have been faithful followers of my approaches both know it and have adopted it into their own personal playing styles.
Bet selection? Important, but still remains more a personal matter of consistency and patience and discipline.
Money management? Important, but still remains a matter of one's personal "comfort zone" and conservative, obtainable/acheivable goals.
Yes, there's much to glean from my posts over the years, but it does take some willingness on the part of those that choose to do so. There is no "road map". If you're waiting for me to post an exact "picture" of what real long-term success looks like all in the name of "copy-catting" it, I'm afraid you're going to leave yourself disappointed.
But for those that take the time and effort to absorb both my Bac theories and plays into their own playing styles, therein lies the real satisfaction, IMHO.
Quote: Beethoven9thHow come all these people pop up out of nowhere to defend my teacher???
All these people? ALL these people?????
This forum will see me get maybe one positive post for every ten negative responses, and you're asking about "all these people"? Not in this forum, my friend, for I'm obviously "swimming with sharks" 'round here.
Know this, however: There are, at least, ten times the members/lurkers that agree with my Bac approaches than what you might read about here in this forum. Trust me on that...
Quote: IbeatyouracesThat's all you need to do. I hate guessing though.
Me, too.
"Guessing" has no place at the Bac tables, especially in the "heat of the battle".
One's plays should be consistent through and through, and must never waver. So, obviously, any serious Bac player will know, in advance, exactly how to react to whatever "this particular shoe" (or portion thereof) can (and will) throw at them. Banker, Player, "No-bet".....all must be consistent selections. Why?:
Consistency is an equation that leaves, for lack of a better term, a "remainder". That "remainder" is: Variance. There sould be....strike that....there MUST BE a trackable variance for each and every trend play that you utilize at the Bac table....only then can you adjust your betting accordingly, and, for the most part, successfully.
But, I'm afraid that you're simply not gonna "get" that, Ibeatyouraces; mainly because you refuse to. And that's fine, my friend. It's all good. But know this, my friend....your "refusal to believe and/or adapt" does not, in and of itself, make it any less useful and important to those that do choose to believe, accept and adapt.
It is no secret, he's already mentioned it twice on two boards that he has lost a six figure sum, -250k according to his GG post, so let's leave out the not losing, or might remain ahead of the game baloney myths. That small matter has already been determined.Quote: boymimboHe *might* not lose. Some people get to play bacarrat/craps/blackjack/slots for their entire life and not lose. It's the bell curve.
Quote: egaliteIt is no secret, he's already mentioned it twice on two boards that he has lost a six figure sum, -250k according to his GG post
No joke? So after all of his claims about being the world's foremost expert on everything baccarat, the truth finally comes out???? LOL!
I thought you knew that already, he has already eluded to the fact here, only he went into a tad more detail at the Glen. The thing with the honourable teacher, is that this is all in the past, he's now learnt a "new disciplined, statistical trendy type of way" of approaching the game of Baccarat.Quote: Beethoven9thNo joke? So after all of his claims about being the world's foremost expert on everything baccarat, the truth finally comes out???? LOL!
Don't entirely know when phase two started from, last winning session maybe? But he did once post about losing 27 units once over at the Glen, I bet that stung given those table minimums he likes us to believe he's playing. A real Walter Mitty character if there ever was one.
Quote: egaliteI thought you knew that already, he has already eluded to the fact here, only he went into a tad more detail at the Glen. The thing with the honourable teacher, is that this is all in the past, he's now learnt a "new disciplined, statistical trendy type" of way of approaching the game of Baccarat.
Don't entirely know when phase two started from, last winning session maybe? But he did once post about losing 27 units once over at the Glen, I bet that stung given those table minimums he likes us to believe he's playing. A real Walter Mitty character if there ever was one.
I didn't know that my esteemed teacher's losses were in the $250K range. lol
To gr8player: I will still be one of your many humble students, but please be more honest with us, teacher!!
Quote: egaliteIt is no secret, he's already mentioned it twice on two boards that he has lost a six figure sum, -250k according to his GG post, so let's leave out the not losing, or might remain ahead of the game baloney myths. That small matter has already been determined.
If that's the case, then it must still be included in his overall results, whether he was operating his strategy at the time or not.
If you have a game that you mathematically should lose, but have a winning probability of x in y wagers, then it is a simple matter to isolate a section of wagers as, "Proof," of a winning formula. Even simpler is to be able to effectively, "Start over," anytime you wish.
I can understand how you might isolate the results of a strategy for statistical purposes, to see how it does, but your lifetime win/loss is your lifetime win/loss, period.
I guess the problem with my little metaphor is that I am in complete control of every single aspect of my golf play, whereas Gr8 is at the mercy of the cards. So I guess you’d have to dash a little faith into what he describes. In a way, I don’t see it that much different than prayer or other religious practices. “People doing stuff to control randomness”. Who cares if feng shui really harnesses energy? It makes somebody feel good, so yay for them.
In other words, it’s not worth the vitriol. He’ll never prove anything worthy of the hyper factual bunch here, and no one here will get him to change. So take what you can from his advice, leave the rest, and enjoy the show.
