TV Broadcast delays & 'Live' Betting

I went to a Denver Nuggets basketball game at home in November '09 and I was in a private suite. The game was broadcast on ESPN and I noticed that there was a TV delay of a whopping 12-14 seconds.

My questions:
Is there a normal delay based on the network carrying the broadcast and/or does it depend on the sport?

Bodog has live betting available. I've done it on a couple of college football games while watching on TV. The bet immediately shuts off as so as the TV camera cuts and shows the offense lining up (bets would be if the next play would be a rush, complete/incomplete pass). Obviously you know where I'm going with this, but here are some givens:

1) Bodog is not stupid.
2) I haven't noticed live NBA betting. Is this because only the football broadcast really is LIVE?

Anyways, hopefully someone can provide some insight.

I believe there are Asian betting syndicates that often place bets thru various European sites. The Asian betting syndicates are said to have exploited minute differences between a live sporting event and the telecommunications reality of a "live" sporting event. One notable torture and murder of a young couple in London is said to have been a lesson as to what happens to those who make mistakes. It seems that someone with a cell phone at the event can get the word out real fast and some bets can be "past posted" even though the bookie who is watching the event live will not see the goal scored for several seconds.

Delays in 'live' broadcasts are not only common, but standard operating procedure. A delay is employed with someone on the 'kill' button just in case of foul language. This delay is typically 5 seconds, but can be as much as 15 seconds.

For whatever reason, the broadcast booth where the commentators sit often does NOT have glass on the front. Fans sitting near the broadcast booth CAN be overheard.

There can also be delays for other technical reasons. Have you ever been in a bar, watching a game on two different TVs and they are out of sync by several seconds?

I've noticed that HD broadcasts for my cable company is delayed by a couple of seconds. If the source is different, then you'll experience delays, even for sporting events. There is a measurable amount of time from the broadcasting site to the TV Network to the satellite to your cable company to your place of viewing... and it differs by source.

As a broadcaster who has done play-by-play before, it varies greatly. In radio, we always tried to turn our delay OFF during live sporting events, because people at the game wanted to listen to the radio and follow the game. The stray profanity is not usually considered. In fact, When I first started, I was shocked that we simply plugged our headphones into a radio to listen to OURSELVES while we broadcast. Basically, before digital and IP, our signals would simply use a specific radio frequency to get the signal from the stadium back to the studio, then out to the transmitter. This would happen at the speed of light and there is, for all intents and purposes, no delay. Now that many signals are satellite or via the internet, there can be a delay.

You were probably watching a satellite service of the station on television at the game. They can delay as much as 30 seconds. But if you were watching on a hard-wired, cable system, the delay would probably be no more than 2 seconds, if that. (It's the delay from the location, to the satellite uplink, back to the network, then up to the network's satellite, then back to the cable company's dishes. This delay is only a second and a half...like when you see a TV interview where the person on location is delayed.) I've been to plenty of games where we were monitoring the off-the-air signal, and it was barely behind.

Slightly off topic, other than talk shows, most radio stations do not employ a delay when their DJs are on the air; callers are just never put on live.

Has anone been able to 'beat' the live betting by being at the game in a booth or by phone? C

Betfair (www.betfair.com) specifically warn to be careful when betting "in-play" as live does not neccessarily mean live. Very easy to do your money if you're betting on something live when its actually delayed by several seconds.

I work for a European sportsbook and we do occasionally get hit by 'late-bettors', these are easy to spot and they are discouraged from betting in the future.

There are people who've made a lot of money on betfair by betting court-side at Tennis tournements, there are significant advantages to be had from betting from English racetracks against people following the action on tv - again they do this on betfair.

Some European sportsbooks do bet in-play on NBA, but you aren't meant to access these from the US.

There was a long discussion on 2+2 about BodogLive betting. Apparently Bodog would renege on paying a large number of winning bets that were supposedly "late" while not refunding losing bets that were late also. A rep from Bodog said they would make it right in the thread (not sure if they ever did)

The company I work for which I can't name, if we are cancelling bets because they are late, cancel all bets from a given time. It's not common for us to cancel late bets, usually there will be a technical reason or human error behind it. The most common will be the bookmaker reopening a market that has finished by accident, so these late bettors aren't unlucky they are ineffectively trying to cheat. They never complain because they know what they've done.

When I suspect someone is late betting (ie they have an uncanny knack of getting things correct right at the last moment), I aren't allowed to cancel bets unless I can prove they are late, a hunch is not reason enough, we will pay out but might discourage the customer from playing with us again.

I have placed some late bets but 80%-90% of these bets are cancelled and the bookies after cancelling the bets lower my limits. Have anyone experienced Betfair or other exchanges for placing late bets? Is there any chance to place a late bet on Betfair? Does Betfair cancell these late bets?

I'm surprised they lowered your limits only. If it were Betfair, I would cancel your account.

You are saying that if i place a late bet on Betfair, Betfair would cancel my account? Why? They have the right to cancel only these kind of bets not my account.

From what I know, if that your bet is late, it wouldn't be accepted so there's nothing to cancel at all.

I had a bet canceled because they said the odds were incorrect. This was Bovada live, so I'll never do that again.

I listen to the radio commentary while watching Saints [UK football]; it's on FM and there's a delay of about 1/4 second. The stadium shows the play and, depending on whether it's also being shown live, can be .5-3 seconds slow. Digital TV (and digital radio) is between 2-6 seconds late, some of that is due to your receiver's hardware. I've know websites to update results faster than you see them on TV (e.g. Tennis, Formula 1).

There are stories of people sitting in the crowd (I guess cricket, snooker etc.) telephoning updates to Asia etc., hopefully they usually get seen as they're on the phone all the time.

Quote: charliepatrick

There are stories of people sitting in the crowd (I guess cricket, snooker etc.) telephoning updates to Asia etc., hopefully they usually get seen as they're on the phone all the time.

I would certainly be suspicious of anyone who was on the phone for the entire game. Its sort of like going to church but talking on the phone for the entire sermon.

The London Metropolitan Police had an oriental couple killed in their apartment. The word is that the deaths were lingering, VERY lingering and were inflicted as punishment for a cell phone malfunction during a two minute difference between Real World "live" and telecommunications "live''. I have never heard of anyone exploiting any of these momentary signal lapses such as a seven second voice delay. However, if stock traders can make money on such trades then perhaps so to can sports bettors.

Quote: playpianoking

Has anone been able to 'beat' the live betting by being at the game in a booth or by phone? C

Yes this has been done. Someone already mention there was a team doing this. And they made a small fortune.

This is the exact kind of thing that someone could became very wealthy doing. This is the exact type of thing I wouldn't talk about publicly. Especially if you did find a place that allowed this to happen.

Surly any online casino who reads this forum or a consultant reading this will be sure its not possible at their site.

I will never understand.

Quote: AxelWolf

Yes this has been done. Someone already mention there was a team doing this. And they made a small fortune.
This is the exact kind of thing that someone could became very wealthy doing. .

Some details. A Chinese couple living in a heavily Chinese populated enclave of Newcastle Upon Tyne had a declared income of roughly seventeen thousand pounds in a year but had put through bank accounts over 230,000 pounds in just a few months. Their cat was drowned, the floor was a sea of blood, the police, prosecutors and judge all commented on the unimaginable prolonged brutality that was involved, far beyond that which would have necessary to elicit information. The murders were clearly a warning not to cross the higher ups in a past posting scheme involving thousands of Chinese bettors who took advantage of the scant seconds difference between the "live" action in Britain and the "live" telecast in China. The restaurant worker who tortured them pleaded that he was merely a pawn of the higher ups who controlled him, but he received a stiff sentence.

Since the 230,000 pounds was thought to be merely the commissions the couple received for making the phone calls, it is thought that the amount of money being made must have been very high to merit such commissions.

Chinese Gambling-Related Murders.

Just to clarify matters it is not thought that the couple had become loose lipped or that they had skimmed some money from the scheme. Such things are possible but it is generally thought that the couple had merely had a cell phone go dead on them during a critical moment and were being punished for making all those bettors in China miss an opportunity to scam brokers in the Ukraine and China.

Whatever the reasons were, it was a very gruesome ordeal for the police officers who responded.