Upset In Kentucky Derby
We were especially disappointed that the stewards didn't (or it wasn't televised) discuss why they had an issue. We could see that yes, ME widened out. The horse behind him checked up a little. But that horse also (supposedly) wouldn't have finished any differently if ME hadn't widened out.
It just seemed chicken!#/t not to give an on-camera ruling. I'm not positive, but I think it was such a bad decision the entire stands booed throughout the winner's presentation.
Anybody have a guess on how much money changed hands with the DQ? I'm totally swagging at 250million.
Quote: beachbumbabsWe watched. We don't claim to be experts, but we really disagreed with that decision.
We were especially disappointed that the stewards didn't (or it wasn't televised) discuss why they had an issue. We could see that yes, ME widened out. The horse behind him checked up a little. But that horse also (supposedly) wouldn't have finished any differently if ME hadn't widened out.
It just seemed chicken!#/t not to give an on-camera ruling. I'm not positive, but I think it was such a bad decision the entire stands booed throughout the winner's presentation.
Anybody have a guess on how much money changed hands with the DQ? I'm totally swagging at 250million.
I didnt want it live. Did they cut away from the coverage before it was decided?
Quote: GWAEI didnt want it live. Did they cut away from the coverage before it was decided?
On the contrary - they started the Stanley Cup game coverage on NBCSN because they had to delay the trophy presentation until the decision was made. It's just that none of the stewards was interviewed on the air about the decision, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of policy that the stewards don't discuss decisions in public, which would be similar to a policy where figure skating judges are instructed not to talk to any media.
(A call that cost me around $200)
He shifted out right into War of Will’s path as War of Will was making his move to take the lead. It absolutely cost him a placing.
If Maximum Security stays straight, I’m not sure who wins the race. Code of Honor, Max, Country House, War of Will, maybe even Improbable.
I get that people are upset, because Country House didn’t deserve to win. But neither did Maximum Security, who almost caused a disaster of epic proportions.
Sometimes there is no right answer.
War of Will is getting squeezed
the interesting thing to me is that it looks like Country House also fouled War of Will - he's definitely leaning in towards him and it definitely looks like he brushed him
I'd like to hear some comments on that
Quote: billryanI always thought the lead horse could take whichever path he wanted.
no, you can't cut a horse off like an aggressive car driver in a bottleneck and if in doing this you brush or bump the horse you're cutting off it's worse in terms of the likelihood of being disqualified
http://live.drf.com/nuggets/44838-several-jockeys-fined-suspended-for-careless-riding
The trainer of the ‘winner’, who I thought was pretty classy, did say if this was an average race at an average track MS gets dq’d every time with no controversy. I agree.
it seems like they've got karma on their side
Flavien Prat's objection when his horse wasn't even bothered by the incident might be the most brilliant thing any jockey has ever done throughout history
Quote: lilredroosterthis is, I think, a pic of right when it happened
War of Will is getting squeezed
the interesting thing to me is that it looks like Country House also fouled War of Will - he's definitely leaning in towards him and it definitely looks like he brushed him
I'd like to hear some comments on that
If I recall correctly, the horse with the jockey in the black helmet was bumped into Country House, the outside horse by the DQ'ed horse with the pink jockey helmet. I could go look but actually sick of watching the replays.
it definitely looks like Country House is aggressively veering way inside which had to impede War of Will
I'm posting too much. sorry guys. this will be my last post on the subject
Quote: FinsRuleI don’t know how to post pics, but there’s some pictures that show Maximum Security stepping on War of Will.
You have to use a 3rd party hosting site. Are the pics linked on the internet?
I remember this race because my Uncle had a pretty large bet on Forward Pass, who ended up being declared the winner but they didn't honor tickets bet on him.
Supposedly, the owner of Dancers Image had made a large donation to Martin Luther Kings widow and greatly passed off the Kentucky blue bloods who didn't need a pro busing Bostonian upsetting their Apple cart. Security on the samples wasn't like it was today. 100 samples were collected on Derby Day, then sat around for days before testing, and the protocols left much to be desired.
Interesting story with several twists and turns.
Quote: tringlomaneYou have to use a 3rd party hosting site. Are the pics linked on the internet?
if you have facebook a guy I know that judges harness racing in Canada page has the photo see if this link will work for you
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10161908043585226&set=a.10150768693235226&type=3&theater
Quote: billryanI was reading up on Dancers Image, the only other winner to be disqualified. Incredible, that horse ran 22 times before the Derby. Most stars these days don't run 22 races in their career.
I remember this race because my Uncle had a pretty large bet on Forward Pass, who ended up being declared the winner but they didn't honor tickets bet on him.
That is because the "declared official" result was Dancer's Image first, Forward Pass second. The DQ didn't happen until a few days later.
Shades of how NASCAR works - a winning driver can have a car fail a post-race inspection and have points removed and the win ignored for purposes of "postseason" qualifying (and possibly for eligibility in the next All-Star Race), but the win itself stands; he keeps the trophy, and all bets on the winning driver are paid. I think it was Bill France that instituted this policy, as he didn't want the fans to have to wait until they read it in the next day's newspaper to learn who won the race.
I know next to nothing about horse racing, and now I'm learning a little something, I think. I had no clue about the having to stay in your lane thing since it has never come up in the very few races I have seen. And here I thought it was a free for all, whatever happens, happens. It certainly makes sence that can't be allowed. Please post more.Quote: lilredroostertake a look at this screenshot I took from the YT vid.
it definitely looks like Country House is aggressively veering way inside which had to impede War of Will
I'm posting too much. sorry guys. this will be my last post on the subject
Perhaps one day you will find me at the "horse book" ripping up losing tickets and scrounging around for drink tickets.
Quote: AxelWolfPerhaps one day you will find me at the "horse book" ripping up losing tickets. Please post more.
𝐫𝐢𝐩𝐩𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐮𝐩 𝐥𝐨𝐬𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐤𝐞𝐭𝐬 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐨𝐰𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐦 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐠𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐝 𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐡𝐚𝐩𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬𝐭 𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐞𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐤 𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐨𝐟 𝐚𝐥𝐥
🇦🇸 🇱🇴🇳🇬 🇦🇸 🇮🇹 🇩🇴🇪🇸🇳'🇹 🇲🇴🇷🇵🇭 🇮🇳🇹🇴 🇵🇺🇳🇨🇭🇮🇳🇬 🇦 🇭🇴🇱🇪 🇮🇳 🇾🇴🇺🇷 🇨🇴🇲🇵🇺🇹🇪🇷 🇸🇨🇷🇪🇪🇳
Quote: ThatDonGuyThat is because the "declared official" result was Dancer's Image first, Forward Pass second. The DQ didn't happen until a few days later.
Shades of how NASCAR works - a winning driver can have a car fail a post-race inspection and have points removed and the win ignored for purposes of "postseason" qualifying (and possibly for eligibility in the next All-Star Race), but the win itself stands; he keeps the trophy, and all bets on the winning driver are paid. I think it was Bill France that instituted this policy, as he didn't want the fans to have to wait until they read it in the next day's newspaper to learn who won the race.
That policy has changed effective for the 2019 season. It hasn't happened yet.
Quote: DRichIt was pretty exciting at my house. We had another couple over to swim, BBQ, and watch the race. The lady, a good friend of mine, had Country House to win. She was bitter at first because her boyfriend didn't bet it to Place for her. Her opinion then changed when she found out she won over $1,200 on her $20 bet. No, she knows nothing about horse racing and chose it for the name and did't even know or understand the odds.
Dam. Don't you know pretty ladies who know nothing about betting always win? You should have bet the house. And the Wife.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/stunned-owner-maximum-security-vows-appeal-says-horse-won-t-n1002266
Quote: aceofspadesMaximum Security's owner will appeal and pulls the horse from the Preakness since there would be no Triple Crown on the line
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/stunned-owner-maximum-security-vows-appeal-says-horse-won-t-n1002266
I'll give anyone 5-1 the appeal fails. Maybe more. Is there anyone who thinks the appeal has any chance?
Quote: aceofspadesMaximum Security's owner will appeal and pulls the horse from the Preakness since there would be no Triple Crown on the line
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/stunned-owner-maximum-security-vows-appeal-says-horse-won-t-n1002266
Utterly ridiculous. Any judgement in favor of the plaintiff would put an end to sports as we know it. Imagine if there were no Stanley Cup tournament because the Islanders are in court vs. the NHL, or if the Super Bowl had been delayed a month while the Eagles sued the NFL.
If he thought he had a chance to succeed, he would ask for the Preakness to be postponed.
Quote: billryanUtterly ridiculous. Any judgement in favor of the plaintiff would put an end to sports as we know it. Imagine if there were no Stanley Cup tournament because the Islanders are in court vs. the NHL, or if the Super Bowl had been delayed a month while the Eagles sued the NFL.
If he thought he had a chance to succeed, he would ask for the Preakness to be postponed.
More importantly what happens to the winning tickets that are now losers?
And there may be people who tore up the tickets that would now be eligible for payout if there was this kind of reversal
I dont see it happening either
Quote: darkozMore importantly what happens to the winning tickets that are now losers?
And there may be people who tore up the tickets that would now be eligible for payout if there was this kind of reversal
gamblers and their bad beats
I don't think there's anyone in the whole world who has any empathy for a gambler who had a bad beat - it falls into the who gives an eff category
probably not even other gamblers
probably not even the gambler himself who had the bad beat - he probably doesn't even have any empathy for himself 😃
Quote: aceofspadeshttps://www.foxnews.com/sports/war-of-will-outrage-kentucky-derby-maximum-security
Here is a really dumb and moronic view of the derby. This chump cant even spell the name of the race. What an idiot
Donald Trump
"The Kentuky Derby decision was not a good one. It was a rough & tumble race on a wet and sloppy track, actually, a beautiful thing to watch. Only in these days of political correctness could such an overturn occur. The best horse did NOT win the Kentucky Derby - not even close!?" "
Quote: FinsRuleI consider myself an expert and I believe it was the absolute right call.
I agree
They don't make that call that then other jockeys will pull that same move in other races to get an advantage
Quote: Fox NewsA Las Vegas bettor turned an $8 wager on the Kentucky Derby into more than $78,000 at The Mirage on Saturday after Country House was declared the winner, according to the casino’s sportsbook manager.
The gambler raked in the payday after placing two identical $4 superfecta bets that paid out $51,400 each -- or $39,065 after taxes, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported. Betting on a superfecta means picking the first four finishers of a race in the exact order. At the Derby, Country House won, followed by Code of Honor, Tacitus and Improbable. Maximum Security was disqualified after a review by the stewards...
Quote: terapinedHere is a really dumb and moronic view of the derby. This chump cant even spell the name of the race. What an idiot
Donald Trump
"The Kentuky Derby decision was not a good one. It was a rough & tumble race on a wet and sloppy track, actually, a beautiful thing to watch. Only in these days of political correctness could such an overturn occur. The best horse did NOT win the Kentucky Derby - not even close!?" "
I am stunned that you figured out a way to bring politics into a discussion
Quote: GWAEI am stunned that you figured out a way to bring politics into a discussion
I mean, it’s a moronic view....
Political correctness factored into the decision? That’s the worst take I’ve heard about this.
Quote: JohnzimboAll the horses are snowflakes now, can't bump or impede in the slightest or they get triggered
No rules have changed
Its an old sport
Jockeys in the race know best when somebody makes an unfair move
This started with a jockey objection, the stewards agreed
This is not uncommon
A jockey objects, the race is not made official, the stewards decide and either agree or disagree with the objection.
This is why it takes time for every result to become official. The stewards want to give jockeys time after every single race to object before making the result official
Standard practice for over a hundred years
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/horses/kentucky-derby/2019/05/10/kentucky-derby-video-shows-maximum-security-jockey-not-fault-lawyers-say/1165479001/
Quote: billryanDoes it matter if the jockey swings the horse wide or if the horse does it on its own?
you can't really know that - the jock could make little hand or leg movements to influence the horse that can't be seen
it doesn't matter if the jock didn't do anything - if the horse fouls he can be disqualified
the horses have been trained how to run since they were 2 years old - they're supposed to know what to do and what not to do
it does matter in the sense that if the jock does something obviously very wrong that can be seen he can be disciplined - suspended - or without even being suspended a trainer or more than one trainer can decide not to employ the jockey
"In the ruling, the commission said Saez was being punished for “failure to control his mount and make the proper effort to maintain a straight course thereby causing interference with several rivals that resulted in the disqualification of his mount.”
"In a seven-minute video, lawyers for Saez argued that he did nothing wrong and instead blamed War of Will jockey’s, Tyler Gaffalione, for initiating contact on the final turn that caused Maximum Security to veer."
"Bill Mott, the trainer of Country House, said after the race and reiterated in a recent interview that it was a “young, green” Maximum Security who veered off course because of the puddle and crowd noise and that Saez did a good job of reasserting control."
looks to me like an unfair suspension - the horse weighs about 1100 lbs. - the jock weighs about 114 - no way a jock can completely control a horse and ensure that he does what he is supposed to.
no visual evidence of Saez doing anything shady - Mott was right IMO - the decision to suspend Saez sucks - rubbing salt in a wound
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/13/sports/luis-saez-kentucky-derby.html
The owners of disqualified Kentucky Derby winner Maximum Security are now claiming the disqualification is unconstitutional
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/maximum-securitys-owners-file-suit-over-unconstitutional-kentucky-derby-dq-164455696.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.actionnetwork.com/horse-racing/kentucky-derby-exacta-trifecta-bad-beat-darren-rovell
