General Sports Talk

Ok, lets talk NFC east. Current standings: Cowboys 2-4 IN FIRST PLACE, Eagle 1-4-1 that would be 1 win in their first 6 games and only 1/2 back. Giants and the Washington Team ( I guess is the proper term) 1-5 both 1 game back. LOL.

So the NFL had already expanded the playoff format for this year to 7 teams from each conference making it likely there would be an 8-8 team make the playoffs, but 8-8...hell someone has to win this division and whoever does may have 6 wins, :(

I guess the cowboys are still the favorites for the division, but they sure don't look like Andy Daulton can take them anywhere....at least based on tonights game. They do have offensive weapons, so they should be able to point some points up, more than the 10 tonight. But that defense. They came into the game having averaged a league high 36 points a game AGAINST and gave up even more than that at 38 to the cardinals.

I guess what I am trying to say is the cowboys are bad! But probably still the best of division. Eagle have played better past two weeks in competitive losses to good Steelers and Ravens teams, But just have no offensive weapons and lost Zack Ertz on Sunday. Similar to the Cowboys the Eagles have no offensive line to speak of.

For a fan of any team in this division, of which I am, it is going to be a long season, and a real laughing stock when someone makes the playoffs with 6 wins. Could be even less except for the fact that these 4 teams have to play each other so someone has to win those games. lol

Quote: TomG

If we were to take the eight strongest Negro League teams from the 20s and 30s, they would have been comparable in talent to an average American League or National League team. Take the 150 to 200 best players who could not play because of their skin color, and it would have been equal.

Looking at a few years of Negro National League standings from those years, they typically played about 80 games per year against each other. That is not "rarely." That would mean up to another 50 to 100 days (and maybe 50 to 150 games) of barnstorming against whatever level of competition was available. I would hardly consider between 1/3 and 2/3 of games to be "the vast majority"

Josh Gibson played more than 60 games for a Negro League team only three times in 15 plus years. He is credited with between 115 and 220 Home runs against top-flight Negro teams; the rest of his supposed 800 home runs were done mostly barnstorming. He saw white Major League pitchers when he played in Puerto Rico and is credited with two home runs in fifty-plus at-bats.
My understanding of the Negro Leagues is they would play about 60-80 games against each other over the season and barnstorm as many as 200 more games a year. The Newark team supposedly had two different teams barnstorming at the same time. They'd take off between Thanksgiving and Christmas and hit Florida and the South before heading north in April. White Major Leaguers would barnstorm for a month for extra money. Negro teams barnstormed all year because they liked to eat.
Jackie Robinson hit .387 in the Negro Leagues. He hit .297 the next year playing for Brooklyn. He developed into a star, but he never came close to hitting .387 in the Bigs.
If we took the top 150-200 white minor league players and allowed them to sign with Negro League teams, how many roster spots would they have filled?
The fact is that guys like Josh Gibson played about two-thirds of their games against the markedly inferior competition, so their stats are meaningless. There were some great players, but most of their games were played against local boys that were thrown together for the game or the weekend.
If you think it is okay to put Josh in as your catcher with zero games in the bigs, I'll go back to Mickey Mantle as my shortstop, He played seven games more than your guy did.

Who are your four starters and two relievers?

the Titans and Steelers are now undefeated - who would've thunk it?
weak schedule so far for both? - not really - the Steelers have crushed the Browns and beat the Texans -
and the Titans crushed the Bills and beat the Vikes and the Texans
will they stay real tough? I would say no - they will end up only semi-tough

Quote: lilredrooster

the Titans and Steelers are now undefeated - who would've thunk it?
weak schedule so far for both? - not really - the Steelers have crushed the Browns and beat the Texans -
and the Titans crushed the Bills and beat the Vikes and the Texans
will they stay real tough? I would say no - they will end up only semi-tough

Only one of them will be undefeated after next weekend.

modifying my opinion
Steelers - will definitely not remain very tough throughout the season
Titans - maybe

Quote: lilredrooster

modifying my opinion
Steelers - will definitely not remain very tough throughout the season
Titans - maybe

Per Vegas: Steelers -2 @ Titans

Quote: unJon

Per Vegas: Steelers -2 @ Titans

maybe it will go that way
but the Steelers gave up 29 points to the lowly Eagles
the Titans have averaged 37 points in their last 4 games

Nice story

Quote: lilredrooster

maybe it will go that way
but the Steelers gave up 29 points to the lowly Eagles
the Titans have averaged 37 points in their last 4 games

It will be an interesting matchup. Titans have the 2nd ranked offensive vs Steelers 3rd ranked defense (both on ypg). Steelers are giving up 66 rushing ypg. Titans are rushing 158 ypg.

Quote: lilredrooster

the Titans and Steelers are now undefeated - who would've thunk it?
weak schedule so far for both? - not really - the Steelers have crushed the Browns and beat the Texans -
and the Titans crushed the Bills and beat the Vikes and the Texans
will they stay real tough? I would say no - they will end up only semi-tough

Note that the Steelers lost one of their best defensive players this week and he is out for the season. The Titans lost their left tackle who has been a stud and I believe he is also out for the season. Those losses will diminish both teams.

Quote: DRich

Note that the Steelers lost one of their best defensive players this week and he is out for the season. The Titans lost their left tackle who has been a stud and I believe he is also out for the season. Those losses will diminish both teams.

Just listened to a guessing lines podcast. Seems the line setter was thinking of going PICKEM but backed it to Steelers -1.5 or so due mostly to heavy Steeler fan play.

Quote: billryan

The fact is that guys like Josh Gibson played about two-thirds of their games against the markedly inferior competition, so their stats are meaningless.

The data is perfectly acceptable. The only thing gives it any meaning (or takes away any meaning), is the way we interpret it. Seamheads shows Gibson playing 911 games against professionals, more than 40% of the number of games Bench played. In the 1920s and 30s, baseball had the American League, the National League, and the Negro Leagues. The talent on the top 150 to 200 players was roughly equal across all three of those leagues. During those decades the best catcher was Josh Gibson, the best shortstop was Pop Lloyd and the two best pitchers were Satchel Paige and Lefty Grove. The AL and the NL operated under the same conditions, so they are very easy to compare. It is easy to see that the economic and cultural conditions for the Negro Leagues made it so the league had to operate in much different ways. That difference led to the talent being spread out over more teams and more games played does not diminish the talent in any way.

Jackie Robinson only played in the Negro Leagues in 1945, when World War II was still significantly impacting talent across all of baseball. In 1946, the year before he joined the Dodgers, he had a .349 batting average on an integrated minor league team.

Top three pitchers I am set on Clemens, Seaver, and Walter Johnson. For today I'll say Maddux is fourth. Rivera is the best reliever and probably around 30th best pitcher. Wilhelm is second.

Quote: kewlj

Ok, lets talk NFC east. Current standings: Cowboys 2-4 IN FIRST PLACE, Eagle 1-4-1 that would be 1 win in their first 6 games and only 1/2 back. Giants and the Washington Team ( I guess is the proper term) 1-5 both 1 game back. LOL.

So the NFL had already expanded the playoff format for this year to 7 teams from each conference making it likely there would be an 8-8 team make the playoffs, but 8-8...hell someone has to win this division and whoever does may have 6 wins, :(

I guess the cowboys are still the favorites for the division, but they sure don't look like Andy Daulton can take them anywhere....at least based on tonights game. They do have offensive weapons, so they should be able to point some points up, more than the 10 tonight. But that defense. They came into the game having averaged a league high 36 points a game AGAINST and gave up even more than that at 38 to the cardinals.

I guess what I am trying to say is the cowboys are bad! But probably still the best of division. Eagle have played better past two weeks in competitive losses to good Steelers and Ravens teams, But just have no offensive weapons and lost Zack Ertz on Sunday. Similar to the Cowboys the Eagles have no offensive line to speak of.

For a fan of any team in this division, of which I am, it is going to be a long season, and a real laughing stock when someone makes the playoffs with 6 wins. Could be even less except for the fact that these 4 teams have to play each other so someone has to win those games. lol

It seems like this conversation is had about the NFC East every year the last few years about this time or a few weeks later. Cowboys and Eagles always semi-hyped and supposed to be good, always stuck around 500 midseason maybe a game better or game worse, in a race for a division title that might not otherwise make a wild card by record. Main difference this year is the injuries. As good as Ertz is I don’t think that’s such a devastating loss just because, on average, most teams lose a big contributor to their team to injury, it’s football. Dak or a starting QB going down is a bit different. Eagles or Dallas will probably end up at .500 just because someone’s got to win those games when they play their divisional opponents.

Quote: mcallister3200

Eagles or Dallas will probably end up at .500 just because someone’s got to win those games when they play their divisional opponents.

the Eagles have only won 1 game
they already got beat by Washington
if they won all 5 other games in their division and lost all the rest they would be 6-9-1
not likely they will win all those games, but also they may get better and beat some of the other teams



interesting stats re Carson Wentz:

14 fumbles in 2016
16 fumbles in 2019

and he already has 4 fumbles this year

Quote: lilredrooster

the Eagles have only won 1 game
they already got beat by Washington
if they won all 5 other games in their division and lost all the rest they would be 6-9-1
not likely they will win all those games, but also they may get better and beat some of the other teams

I just heard on sports talk this morning that ESPN did a simulation (actually 20,000 of them) of the rest of the season for the NFC East. The average wins for the division winner was 5.8, with 13 of the 20,000 simulation runs having the division winner totaling just 4 wins!

I couldn't find a link, so maybe it's just the local sports jocks spreading rumors, but it seems plausible. Personally, I would love to see a team win the division and host a playoff game with a 4-12 record (or 4-11-1 for the Eagles, of course)!

Say what you want, but my Giants are just a game away from another Super Bowl run. It looks like we will have some meaningful football after Thanksgiving. I think six wins will get them into the playoffs, although looking at their schedule that is still a very uphill slog.

Quote: lilredrooster

the Eagles have only won 1 game
they already got beat by Washington
if they won all 5 other games in their division and lost all the rest they would be 6-9-1
not likely they will win all those games, but also they may get better and beat some of the other teams



interesting stats re Carson Wentz:

14 fumbles in 2016
16 fumbles in 2019

and he already has 4 fumbles this year

Sure it’s worse than most years but I still contend that around midseason since the year after Eagles last won super bowl there’s been an annual conversation midseason about the nfc east being trash and a wide open trash race centered around eagles and cowboys having not lived up to expectations to that point.

Quote: TomG

Top three pitchers I am set on Clemens, Seaver, and Walter Johnson. For today I'll say Maddux is fourth. Rivera is the best reliever and probably around 30th best pitcher. Wilhelm is second.

Those are four elite pitchers for sure. But what about Christy Mathewson? Not much separates Christy from Walter. Also, for four years Sandy Koufax was good enough to make this list. And, damn, but Bob Gibson was very good.

I think I would take Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Bob Gibson and Roger Clemens.

I would love to see Maddux pitch against an electronic strike zone with no human umpire and see how effective he would have been without that extra six inches outside he seemed to get vs every other pitcher. I’m sure he would have adapted to some extent and threw it there so often because he knew he was getting those calls. Not sure why we still have human umpires behind home plate calling balls and strikes anymore.

Quote: gordonm888

Those are four elite pitchers for sure. But what about Christy Mathewson? Not much separates Christy from Walter. Also, for four years Sandy Koufax was good enough to make this list. And, damn, but Bob Gibson was very good.

I think I would take Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Bob Gibson and Roger Clemens.

165 WAR and 147 ERA+ in 5900 innings for Johnson; 106 WAR and 136 ERA+ in 4800 innings for Mathewson. That is a pretty clear separation.

Quote: TomG

165 WAR and 147 ERA+ in 5900 innings for Johnson; 106 WAR and 136 ERA+ in 4800 innings for Mathewson. That is a pretty clear separation.

Christy Mathewson pitched entirely during the 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘥 𝘣𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘦𝘳𝘢
Walter Johnson pitched about 67% of his games during the 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘥 𝘣𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘦𝘳𝘢

this fact undoubtedly had a great effect on their stats

comparing Mathewson's stats to Johnson's only thru 1919 probably provides a more fair comparison
and a brief look seems to favor Johnson

Mathewson's career ERA.........................2.13
Johnson's ERA only thru 1919...........................................................1.67



the 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘥 𝘣𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘦𝘳𝘢 is generally regarded to have ended around 1919

the effect of this era can be easily seen in Babe Ruth's stats

he hit 11 HRs in 1918 with 317 at bats
he hit 29 HRs in 1919 with 432 at bats
he hit 54 HRs in 1920 with with 458 at bats

it can be seen even more clearly in Walter Johnson's stats

thru 1919 his ERA averaged out at well under 2.00
after 1919 his ERA averaged out at over 3.00

"improvement in batting averages from 1918 to 1921, over which time the league average improved from .254 to .291.

The dead-ball era ended suddenly. By 1921, offenses were scoring 40% more runs and hitting four times as many home runs as they had in 1918. Baseball historians debate the abruptness of this change, with no consensus on its cause."








interestingly, Ty Cobb, played about 14 years during the dead ball era and about 9 years after it
his batting average and RBI production did not improve with the end of the dead ball era
it was actually better during the dead ball era then after it














"The following factors contributed to the dramatic decline in runs scored during the dead-ball era:

Foul strike rule
The foul strike rule was a major rule change that, in just a few years, sent baseball from a high-scoring game to a game where scoring any runs was a struggle. Under the foul strike rule, a batter who fouls off is charged with a strike unless he already has two strikes against him. The National League adopted the foul strike rule in 1901 and the American League followed suit in 1903. Prior to this rule, foul balls did not count as strikes. Thus, a batter could foul off a countless number of pitches with no strikes counted against him—except for bunt attempts. This gave batters an enormous advantage before the foul strike rule removed it. [9]

Ball construction and use
Before 1921, it was common for a baseball to be in play for over 100 pitches. Players used the same ball until it started to unravel. Early baseball leagues were very cost-conscious, so fans had to throw back balls that had been hit into the stands. The longer the ball was in play, the softer it became—and hitting a heavily used, softer ball for distance is much more difficult than hitting a new, harder one. The ball was also softer to begin with, making home runs less likely.

Spitball
The ball was also hard to hit because pitchers could manipulate it before a pitch. For example, the spitball pitch was permitted in baseball until 1921. Pitchers often marked the ball, scuffed it, spat on it—anything they could to influence the ball's motion. This made the ball "dance" and curve much more than it does now, making it more difficult to hit. Tobacco juice was often added to the ball as well, which discolored it. This made the ball difficult to see, especially since baseball parks did not have lights until the late 1930s. This made both hitting and fielding more difficult.

Ballpark size
Many ballparks were large by modern standards, such as the West Side Grounds of the Chicago Cubs, which was 560 feet (170 m) to the center field fence, and the Huntington Avenue Grounds of the Boston Red Sox, which was 635 feet (194 m) to the center field fence. The dimensions of Braves Field prompted Ty Cobb to say that no one would ever hit the ball out of it.






End of the era

The dead-ball era ended suddenly. .[10][11] Six popular theories have been advanced:

Changes in the ball: This theory claims that owners replaced the ball with a newer, livelier ball (sometimes referred to as the "jackrabbit" ball), presumably with the intention of boosting offense and, by extension, ticket sales. The theory has been rebutted by Major League Baseball. The yarn used to wrap the core of the ball was changed prior to the 1920 season, although testing by the United States Bureau of Standards found no difference in the physical properties of the two different types of balls. The so-called "livelier" ball was actually introduced in 1911, when the league began using a cork-centered ball, as opposed to rubber, and that year the number of total home runs was 514, having been 361 the previous season.[12][13] Frank Schulte became the first player of the 20th century to reach twenty home runs in a season.


Outlawing certain pitches: Pitches now considered illegal, per MLB Rule 6.02(c), were outlawed.[14] This included the shine ball, emery ball, and spitball (a very effective pitch throughout the dead-ball era). This theory states that without such effective pitches in the pitcher's arsenal, batters gained an advantage. When the spitball was outlawed in 1920, MLB recognized seventeen pitchers who had nearly built their careers specializing in the spitball and permitted them to continue using it; the last pitcher allowed to do so, Burleigh Grimes, pitched until the end of 1934.[15]


More baseballs per game: The fatal beaning of Ray Chapman during the 1920 season led to a rule that the baseball must be replaced every time that it got dirty. With a clean ball in play at all times, players no longer had to contend with a ball that "traveled through the air erratically, tended to soften in the later innings, and as it came over the plate, was very hard to see."[16]


Stat keeping and rule changes: In 1920, Major League Baseball adopted writer Fred Lieb's proposal that a game-winning home run with men on base count as a home run, even if its run is not needed to win the game. Owners tried unsuccessfully to eliminate the intentional walk. They succeeded only in changing the rules to require that the catcher be within the catcher's box when the pitcher throws‚ and that everything that happened in a protested game was added to the game record. (From 1910 to 1919‚ records in protested games were excluded.)


Babe Ruth: One theory is that the prolific success of Babe Ruth at hitting home runs led players around the league to forsake their old methods of hitting (described above) and adopt a "free-swinging" style designed to hit the ball hard and with an uppercut stroke, with the intention of hitting more home runs. Critics of this theory claim that it does not account for the improvement in batting averages from 1918 to 1921, over which time the league average improved from .254 to .291."

Watched pieces of game 2. Does MLB think fans want to twiddle their thumbs during a dozen pitching changes? Watch a dozen tosses to first base? Watch 64 additional commercials between innings? Is there ANYONE that actually can stand to watch a full MLB game now?

Quote: SOOPOO

Watched pieces of game 2. Does MLB think fans want to twiddle their thumbs during a dozen pitching changes? Watch a dozen tosses to first base? Watch 64 additional commercials between innings? Is there ANYONE that actually can stand to watch a full MLB game now?

It is very difficult now to watch a whole baseball game. Fortunately, on Friday we have college football on against baseball. I will be mostly watching college football.

I enjoy going out to the ballpark and watching an entire game, but yeah, I can't remember the last time I watched an entire game on TV.

Quote: Joeman

I enjoy going out to the ballpark and watching an entire game, but yeah, I can't remember the last time I watched an entire game on TV.

I agree, baseball is a good event to go to but is painful on TV.

a good highlight to characterize the New York Giants season
Daniel Jones trips after an 80 yard run failing to score in a wide open field
it didn't hurt the Giants because they scored anyway, but still, lost the game despite what would have been a fabulous play from the QB



.......................(-:\...............................................

The Daniel Jones play was one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time. Was the highlight of a horrible game and I say that as an Eagles Fan (even though they somehow won the game. Horrible, horrible game to watch.

It looks like Jones just ran out of gas....to the point that he couldn't lift his legs anymore. I am guessing he doesn't run 87 yard sprints in practice to prepare for such a run. lol

The Daniel Jones play was one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time. Was the highlight of a horrible game and I say that as an Eagles Fan (even though they somehow won the game. Horrible, horrible game to watch.

It looks like Jones just ran out of gas....to the point that he couldn't lift his legs anymore. I am guessing he doesn't run 87 yard sprints in practice to prepare for such a run. lol

The Daniel Jones play was one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time. Was the highlight of a horrible game and I say that as an Eagles Fan (even though they somehow won the game. Horrible, horrible game to watch.

It looks like Jones just ran out of gas....to the point that he couldn't lift his legs anymore. I am guessing he doesn't run 87 yard sprints in practice to prepare for such a run. lol

The Daniel Jones play was one of the funniest things I have seen in a long time. Was the highlight of a horrible game and I say that as an Eagles Fan (even though they somehow won the game. Horrible, horrible game to watch.

It looks like Jones just ran out of gas....to the point that he couldn't lift his legs anymore. I am guessing he doesn't run 87 yard sprints in practice to prepare for such a run. lol

I am guessing this forum is having technical difficulties with posting at the moment. I tried to post after the game last night and couldn't post at all and now, am seeing many duplicates of a single post.

Quote: kewlj

It looks like Jones just ran out of gas....to the point that he couldn't lift his legs anymore.

Yes! It looks exactly like that! but surely not. He's too athletic, I can't buy it.

that's a great animated gif

Quote: odiousgambit

Yes! It looks exactly like that! but surely not. He's too athletic, I can't buy it.

that's a great animated gif

brings back memories of Mark Sanchez's famous 𝐛𝐮𝐭𝐭 𝐟𝐮𝐦𝐛𝐥𝐞


from another great New York team...................................(-:\

somebody mentioned Josh Gibson so I feel Satchel Paige should also be mentioned
maybe he can't be considered as one of baseball's greatest pitchers ever but nonetheless
in 1948, as the oldest rookie ever, age 41 or 42 depending on what you believe, he joined the Cleveland Indians and went 6-1 with a 2.48 ERA
this was before there were all these nutritional supplements available to assist older players
he may have been even older than that
his accomplishments in the Negro leagues were legendary
I was lucky enough to get his autograph at a Globetrotters game but I since have lost it



"𝘑𝘰𝘦 𝘋𝘪𝘔𝘢𝘨𝘨𝘪𝘰 𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘥 𝘗𝘢𝘪𝘨𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘱𝘪𝘵𝘤𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘩𝘦 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘧𝘢𝘤𝘦𝘥 (𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸)."



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/127212-how-good-were-the-negor-leagues

Big 10 football is back.

Go:

Big 10 football is back.

Go:

Some smaller conferences starting up today as well, like Mountain West (UNLV, Boise State, Hawaii. SD State ect).

I am a sports guy. Love my sports. No sports was probably the worst past of the shutdown in the spring. BUT, does it make sense that right now, following 2 straight days of the most new infections recorded in this country, we are expanding sports?

Quote: kewlj

Some smaller conferences starting up today as well, like Mountain West (UNLV, Boise State, Hawaii. SD State ect).

I am a sports guy. Love my sports. No sports was probably the worst past of the shutdown in the spring. BUT, does it make sense that right now, following 2 straight days of the most new infections recorded in this country, we are expanding sports?

What I think is horrible is that U of Michigan has issued a stay at home order for all students, except the sports teams. How does that make any sense?

Never look back, something might be gaining on you!!

Quote: DRich

What I think is horrible is that U of Michigan has issued a stay at home order for all students, except the sports teams. How does that make any sense?

You are joking, right? How about asking this question.... all the kids that get into Michigan have 1200+ SATs.... while only 4 of the 100 football players do.... (example.... no idea about the actual scores)

Or this... oh never mind.... I can list dozens of examples why their football players are just plain treated differently than the actual students.

Quote: kewlj

Some smaller conferences starting up today as well, like Mountain West (UNLV, Boise State, Hawaii. SD State ect).

I am a sports guy. Love my sports. No sports was probably the worst past of the shutdown in the spring. BUT, does it make sense that right now, following 2 straight days of the most new infections recorded in this country, we are expanding sports?

Do you think the decision to play or not play MEANINGFULLY impacts public health? Whether or not there are fans is not part of the question, simply playing or not playing.

Do you think they’re MORE likely to catch the virus playing football than lord knows what they’d likely otherwise be doing.

Shutting down sports back in March when there was an outside to severely slow down or stop things made sense. Completely shutting them down now will make next to zero impact imo especially with the plans that have been put in place to conduct the sports, going about it in a smart way is important imo.

Quote: mcallister3200

Do you think the decision to play or not play meaningfully impacts public health?

Do you think they’re MORE likely to catch the virus playing football than lord knows what they’d likely otherwise be doing.

That point is always ignored by left leaning media! "Regular" college kids are engaging in ALL sorts of non-COVID wise behaviors. I'll bet the Michigan football team is shielded from some of those behaviors by their kommandants, I mean coaches.

The bait and switch done by some universities promising an on campus experience and then sending kids home very early was borderline fraud. Promise an on campus experience to secure tuition, set guidelines that you know are unrealistic and you already know they aren’t going to be abided be perfectly, and then shut it down and blame the students when what you already knew would happen happens.

Pretty bad coaching mistake in the Penn State-Indiana Game. With Penn State leading 21-20, Indiana went for it on 4th down from their own 15 yard line with 1:47 remaining. With only 1 time out left it was their only chance really. If they punted the ball away, Penn State could have all but run the clock out. So Indiana didn't pick up the first down, turning the ball over at the Indiana 15 yard line with 1:47 left and 1 time out.

So Penn state runs it in for a TD that Indiana offered no resistance and kicked an extra point making it 28-20. Still 1:42 left. Indiana gets the ball and goes down the field and scores, then makes the two point conversion tying the game. Indiana later won in overtime (on a controversial call), but it should have never gotten to overtime.

Lets do the math. 1:47 remaining. If Penn State had run 3 plays, intentionally not scoring, lets say each play takes 4 seconds. Indiana would have used their last time out after the first play with less than 1:40 remaining. Run another play taking 4 seconds and use all of the 40 second clock and you are now down to about 55 seconds. On 3rd down you run another play taking 4-5 seconds and again use all of the 40 second clock and you would be looking at 4th down with about 10 seconds left. You run on 4th down using 4 seconds and give the ball back to Indiana at the 10 yard line with 6 seconds left.

They wouldn't be able to get within field goal range as time would run out on a completed pass. Even a pass interference call wouldn't get them in field goal range, as that is only 15 yards in college football. There only hope would be to score a 90 yard touchdown in that final 6 seconds, one of those multiple lateral plays. The percentage of that has to be like .0 something. That is a lot better than what Penn State did, score and give the ball back to Indiana still a 1 possession game with 1:42 left.

Thoughts?

KewlJ is obviously correct. It is amazing the low IQ of college football coaches. There are literally millions of fans watching at home who understand basic strategy decisions better than college and NFL head coaches.

I don’t know how to draw up a guard pulling run play. But I am better than these coaches at basic punt/go for it, field goal worth it or not, go for 2 versus 1 decisions.

Quote: SOOPOO

KewlJ is obviously correct. It is amazing the low IQ of college football coaches. There are literally millions of fans watching at home who understand basic strategy decisions better than college and NFL head coaches.

In the coaches defense, he was not very happy when the kid scored. As a matter of fact, teammates were yelling at him as he fell into the endzone, so at least some players knew they weren't supposed to score. But even so, it is the coach's and offensive coordinators responsibility to be sure that every player on that field knew all they had to do was run the clock out.

Without spoiling the result what an amazing baseball game this evening. Fortunes flowing back and forth.

Quote: charliepatrick

Without spoiling the result what an amazing baseball game this evening. Fortunes flowing back and forth.

Show Spoiler

At least it now goes to Saturday and Sunday evening, so more late nights here in the UK.

the winning play was so incredible that the cameras couldn't catch the whole thing
it doesn't show Arozarena slipping and falling as he rounded 3rd base





https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/sports/dodgers-rays-game-4.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

The full bottom of the 9th is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbS65SKh3Hw
14:23 has the last play and the replay starts at 15:49 then showing more camera angles.

I'm so glad to have stayed up and watched it. Such a memorable innings ...

You know you are old when the network shows clips of a game 35+ years ago and you remember watching that game when it happened.