Shohei Ohtani
Poll
 | 5 votes (23.8%) | ||
| | 7 votes (33.33%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 4 votes (19.04%) | ||
| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 1 vote (4.76%) | ||
| | 4 votes (19.04%) |
21 members have voted
Gets a hit on opening day then pitches a great game last night
Looking forward to watching this player
Plays both ways
incredible
Quote: RogerKintHe had a great game so we're comparing him to Babe Ruth? I'm obv a bigot.
Throughout the history of baseball
You can either hit
or
You can pitch
Babe could hit and pitch - rare
Ohtani can hit and pitch - rare
They even hit home runs sometimes and no one compares them to the Babe. There's something about this guy that you really like.... I wonder what it could be hmmmm ;)
Also, why can’t someone think he should pitch and simultaneously be a bigot?
Quote: RogerKintPitchers getting a hit - not rare.
Not on opening day when not scheduled to pitch
His numbers in Japan are crazy
104 games, 22 home runs 2016 batting .322
Pitching, went 15 - 4 in 2015. 190 K's in 160 pitched innings
He doesn't project as a great hitter at the big league level by all regards.
Quote: terapinedNot on opening day when not scheduled to pitch
His numbers in Japan are crazy
104 games, 22 home runs 2016 batting .322
Pitching, went 15 - 4 in 2015. 190 K's in 160 pitched innings
My numbers in Japan are amazing. Giggity
Not saying he doesn't have potential just saying it's. One. Game.
Quote: SM777Don't get too far ahead of yourself.
He doesn't project as a great hitter at the big league level by all regards.
He may not become a great hitter
regardless
I think if he is good enough to be in the starting rotation and good enough to be in a starting lineup
That would be a pretty incredible accomplishment in itself
Quote: RogerKintHe had a great game so we're comparing him to Babe Ruth? I'm obv a bigot.
You're the one who brought up the Babe Ruth comparisons. The rest of us are comparing him to Ken Brett or Verdell Mathis. His greatness has yet to be proven, but his uniqueness is unquestionable.
Why didn't the Angels have him at DH yesterday? Against a right-handed starter Pujols went 0-5 and is coming off a season with a .286 obp.
Quote: TomGYou're the one who brought up the Babe Ruth comparisons. The rest of us are comparing him to Ken Brett or Verdell Mathis. His greatness has yet to be proven, but his uniqueness is unquestionable.
Why didn't the Angels have him at DH yesterday? Against a right-handed starter Pujols went 0-5 and is coming off a season with a .286 obp.
Ohtani became the first player since Babe Ruth for the Boston Red Sox in 1919 to start on opening day in a non-pitching role, then also start on the mound in the initial 10 games.
I think its the smart move to only let him hit on days he is not pitching
Good article.
I think it's quite clear to many that the hitting experiment won't last very long.
Quote: terapinedOhtani became the first player since Babe Ruth for the Boston Red Sox in 1919 to start on opening day in a non-pitching role, then also start on the mound in the initial 10 games.
I think its the smart move to only let him hit on days he is not pitching
Pretty sure someone like Leon Day must have done it several times during his career. Wes Ferrell and others could have done it. There were 30 - 40 years between Ruth doing it and integration. There were over 50 years between Ruth and the DH. The Ruth comparisons are just a lazy way of allowing ourselves to ignore baseball history
Love the Team reaction in the dugout giving the rookie the silent treatment
Home run.
I'm sure he will cool off
but
Ohtani is on fire
14 at bats, 2 homeruns batting .429
Quote: terapinedOhtani vs last years Cy Young winner
Home run.
I'm sure he will cool off
but
Ohtani is on fire
14 at bats, 2 homeruns batting .429
I let myself be talked into the modest hitting projections, though blindlly naysaying was also foolish.
I know that some projections had him as a Joc Pederson level hitter , which would still be unbelievable.
Comparing across eras is usually pointless. But Ruth played when the pool was a far less populated, white America and when he started, being a pro baseball player wasn't necessarily that desirable a profession.
Now, the population of baseball playing countries is what? 500 million? And 99% of men would kill to play mlb.
And out of all those people, this guy could be a top 10 pitcher and maybe a top 100 hitter at his peak. That would be astounding.
The sample size is small, but hitting like that for any stretch in MLB is quite hard. Never mind as a rookie. And he is just 23. So you also have to ask with the small samples, how often does a poor hitter just happen to have his luckiest stretch in his first few games?
His pitches have great movement and he has been clocked at 102. 102!
Enjoy it.
MLB is way too specialized, but I think it's changing (slowly).
There have been plenty of position players that are converted to relievers because of strong arms. They are probably players that are AA or AAA hitters and they think of this as their only way to the bigs. I'm sure there are plenty of players that could have major league bats and arms if they weren't forced to give up on one of those skills. With roster flexibility more important than ever, I think we will be seeing more of it (eventually).
One of the best pitchers in the game at his time
I can see why they don't let him hit in games he pitches
The DH rules is use it or lose it per game
Ohtani gets knocked out early, the next pitcher takes his batting spot
For those watching him. He next pitches Sunday
Quote: SM777https://sports.yahoo.com/verdict-shohei-ohtanis-bat-not-good-023611674.html
Good article.
I think it's quite clear to many that the hitting experiment won't last very long.
That article not looking so good right now
lol
Quote: terapinedThat article not looking so good right now
lol
You realize there are 162 games in the MLB season, right?
I get that you are rooting for him to succeed as a 2-way player since it would be cool and historical. I'm not trying to harsh your mellow.
Well, I guess I am lol. But baseball is the ultimate short-term streak sport. You need massive amounts of data to draw hard conclusions. Like multiple seasons, really.
He hit four home runs the rest of the season and became a journeyman player.
Quote: AcesAndEightsYou realize there are 162 games in the MLB season, right?
I get that you are rooting for him to succeed as a 2-way player since it would be cool and historical. I'm not trying to harsh your mellow.
Well, I guess I am lol. But baseball is the ultimate short-term streak sport. You need massive amounts of data to draw hard conclusions. Like multiple seasons, really.
Yes, it is a long season
His success at the plate will depend on him getting used to pitching in the major leagues
He is not hitting every day.
He may only get about 200 to 250 at bats
Its tough to get used to US pitchers with only about 200 at bats
I predict cooling down and batting around 280 which I think is pretty incredible for a pitcher
I laughed at the yahoo article because it is a long season and they were simply looking at spring training and ignoring what he did in Japan. They based their article on practice which is what spring training is. Hard to project just looking at practice but that's what yahoo did and now the writer is not looking very good because Ohtani is starting out hot and on fire.
Quote: terapinedYes, it is a long season
His success at the plate will depend on him getting used to pitching in the major leagues
He is not hitting every day.
He may only get about 200 to 250 at bats
Its tough to get used to US pitchers with only about 200 at bats
I predict cooling down and batting around 280 which I think is pretty incredible for a pitcher
I laughed at the yahoo article because it is a long season and they were simply looking at spring training and ignoring what he did in Japan. They based their article on practice which is what spring training is. Hard to project just looking at practice but that's what yahoo did and now the writer is not looking very good because Ohtani is starting out hot and on fire.
Yeah Spring Training stats are basically useless. You can glean some useful information from specific matchups and video (how a guy is swinging, how a pitcher is locating etc) but the results are basically useless. A pitcher could be working extensively on locating his fastball and thus not throw many breaking pitches at the risk of giving up hits, since the results don't matter. Et cetera.
I know you know this. But anyway.
Quote: FinsRuleI think it's surprising it doesn't happen more often.
MLB is way too specialized, but I think it's changing (slowly).
There have been plenty of position players that are converted to relievers because of strong arms. They are probably players that are AA or AAA hitters and they think of this as their only way to the bigs. I'm sure there are plenty of players that could have major league bats and arms if they weren't forced to give up on one of those skills. With roster flexibility more important than ever, I think we will be seeing more of it (eventually).
There was a kid drafted recently who they might try it with. A lot of guys can pitch well enough to step in annd eat a couple innings during blow outs but i think they don't like to risk stars injuring themselves. Ichiro was also said to be a pretty good pitcher. I guess if cespedes can top 100 on throws from the of he could pitch in the 90s.
The main problem is that both hitting and pitching are very refined skills at the mlb level and it takes even the best a couple years to learn just one. It's next to impossible to simultaneously develop as both.
I can see why Angels/MLB fans would be excited about Ohtani. He is a very unique talent. I look forward to see him play (pitch and hit) in an interleague game in a National League ballpark. His first opportunity could come in May @ Colorado.
So what could be the best single game performance for him?
I would say pitching a Perfect game and hitting for the cycle.
Quote: KeeneoneBrendan McKay (TB Rays organization) and Hunter Greene (Cinncy Reds Organization) are both potential 2-way MLB "Unicorns". Greene is sticking with pitcher for now but McKay is doing both in the minors.
I can see why Angels/MLB fans would be excited about Ohtani. He is a very unique talent. I look forward to see him play (pitch and hit) in an interleague game in a National League ballpark. His first opportunity could come in May @ Colorado.
So what could be the best single game performance for him?
I would say pitching a Perfect game and hitting for the cycle.
I doubt he will hit in games he pitches, so that is highly unlikely.
Quote: billryanI doubt he will hit in games he pitches, so that is highly unlikely.
National League pitchers do it all the time. This is one of the "advantages" Ohtani offers as a "good" 2 way player. He might not get many chances to do it in the American League due to the DH rule (as Terapined mentioned earlier). But interleague games will provide an opportunity.
Do Japanese players generally, and Ohtani in particular, have a sound understanding of the traditional baseball term "slide" (in whatever language) better than a lot of recent MLB players seem to? I'm guessing Nippon Professional Baseball & Mr. Ohtani might; I certainly hope so. By "slide" I mean an act when running the basepaths which is correctly performed with one's FEET and legs, and usually NOT primarily with the hands & fingers & top of the skull. I believe pitchers need continued completely effective use of hands and fingers even more than position players. The relative utility of the skull is something I'll leave to others to speculate on; I suspect the use of that organ varies a lot among ballplayers.
Quote: EdpokernutThis thread got me interested and rooting for him, so I just look the game up on ESPN and see he just hit his 3rd Home Run of the season in his first AB today. NICE!
I just saw that.
Another home run.
Unbelievable. Absolutely crushed it. Dead Center and it cleared it with lots of room. 450 feet.
Unf**kingbelievable
I was hoping for good but this is insane
His spring training has got to be the biggest con ever
The kid is actually playing like the next Babe Ruth.
Simply amazing.
How long till they move him up in the lineup. He's batting 8th lol
Shohei Otani 2018
Babe Ruth 1930
Babe Ruth 1921
Babe Ruth 1920
But I'm still a bigot. And to keep his other part-time baseball job, he still better slide feet first on those rare occasions when he doesn't quite send it out of the ballpark.
Bottom of the 5th. Bases loaded 1 out
They walk Ohtani, Pujols scores. lol
Did Babe Ruth slide?
I'm sure he did or think he did
yet
Just cant picture the Big Bambino sliding :-)
Then you might like to picture this, part of a 1932 newsreel series of lessons from Mr. Ruth:Quote: terapined...<SNIP>...
Did Babe Ruth slide?
I'm sure he did or think he did
yet
Just cant picture the Big Bambino sliding :-)
To see and hear him teaching the kids a proper slide (while wearing a starched dress shirt & a necktie!) see about the 4:15 mark.
Quote: Babe Ruth...and notice my arms are in the air, preventing injuries to the wrists...
Quote: billryanNew players often succeed because their weaknesses aren't exposed early on. The Mets once had a promising rookie named Ron Swoboda. In those days, they were horrible but he was a bright spot for them, hitting a dozen homeruns leading to a coveted All Star spot. While there, he confided to a reporter he was surprised he didn't see a steady stream of curveball, as they were his kryptonite.
He hit four home runs the rest of the season and became a journeyman player.
After one of the greatest catches in World Series history if my memory serves me right.
it doesn't look like he's at all intimidated by U.S. major league talent
With his reduced ABs the Angels could manipulate things so most SPs only get 1 or 2 looks at him.
What if he manages to crack 20 Hrs with around 300 PAs and a devent average. He also can run so toss in 5 steals.
If he does that and is an ace, i can see voters being swayed.
The biggest sticking point is that Trout is the actual MVP every year and is on the same team.
Quote: terapinedPlayers to start as a PItcher and hit a HR in 3 straight games
Shohei Otani 2018
Babe Ruth 1930
Babe Ruth 1921
Babe Ruth 1920
Before you get too excited, how many players qualify for that ? Played three straight games and started one as a pitcher?
Quote: SOOPOOAfter one of the greatest catches in World Series history if my memory serves me right.
Yep, #4 Outfielder on the 1969 Mets. Ended up playing for the Expos and the Yankees( one of very few players to qualify for the Pee Wee Herman WS team, if one gets the joke) before becoming a sportscaster. He had a few shots on NY stations but seems to have made his mark in New Orleans.
While his catch was great, many think Tommie Agee's two catches were better.
Quote: Rigondeaux
If he does that and is an ace, i can see voters being swayed.
The biggest sticking point is that Trout is the actual MVP every year and is on the same team.
I think 30-1 seems very reasonable considering all of the publicity he will be getting. I agree with you about Trout, been the best for four years or so.
Quote: billryanBefore you get too excited, how many players qualify for that ? Played three straight games and started one as a pitcher?
All players qualified. Nobody was good enough.
If any manager had or has a hot pitcher that can hit, they have the right to play that player both ways
If any manager has a hot hitter that can pitch. The manager can start that player on the mound
Throughout the history of baseball, every manager had and that option.
Ruth had that talent
Ohtani has that talent
Quote: RigondeauxSaw him 30-1 for MVP. I'd want at least twice that but it's an intriguing possibility.
With his reduced ABs the Angels could manipulate things so most SPs only get 1 or 2 looks at him.
What if he manages to crack 20 Hrs with around 300 PAs and a devent average. He also can run so toss in 5 steals.
If he does that and is an ace, i can see voters being swayed.
The biggest sticking point is that Trout is the actual MVP every year and is on the same team.
I can easily see him win the MVP
If he is pitching and hitting great
No doubt he is the most valuable player helping to win games in more ways that any other player in the Bigs
Quote: SM777https://sports.yahoo.com/verdict-shohei-ohtanis-bat-not-good-023611674.html
Good article.
I think it's quite clear to many that the hitting experiment won't last very long.
lol
Article based solely on spring training
His manager in Japan watched him for years
He predicted he would be a better hitter then pitcher in the USA
Its early but so far yahoo's Jeff Passan looking real bad and the manager is looking good
Quote: mcallister3200I’m not sure exactly where it happened but terapined you have pole vaulted the shark
I'm not the only one excited
Click on the baseball section of ESPN
At the top are all he major links - scores. schedules standings ect. What you expect to see. Also up there, "Ohtani tracker"
There is no Judge tracker. No Trout tracker.
This player is special
I will be doing something today I have not done since I was a kid
Listening to a baseball game on the radio
I'll be watching the Masters finish while listening to the Angels on internet radio :-)
Now blazing on the mound
Through 6 innings today, he had a perfect game going
Indredible
His line today
7 innings pitched 1 hit 1 walk 0 runs 12 strikeouts
amazing
Article stated that if he waited 2 years, he possibly could of negotiated a $200M contract. It also reported that the Angels will be paying Ohtani’s former team in Japan, the Nippon Ham Fighters, $20 million just for allowing him play in the U.S.
Quote: billryanI'm unclear on his batting. If he is pitching and DHing, do the Angels lose the DH when he is removed?
His schedule is no DH the day brfore pitching, no DH when pitching and no DH the game after pitching
Of course that may change
They don't want to give him too much. Giving him extra rest between pitching games
If he bats on a day he pitches in the American L, team loses the DH, if Ohtani gets knocked out early, next pitcher takes his batting place. Of course you can still pinch hit
Quote: EdpokernutI was surprised to read that Ohtani's contract is the the league-minimum salary of $545,000 per year. He did receive a one-time signing bonus of $2.3 million though. (Under Major League Baseball’s collective-bargaining agreement, or CBA, an incoming international player under the age of 25 like Ohtani can only sign for the league minimum salary).
Article stated that if he waited 2 years, he possibly could of negotiated a $200M contract. It also reported that the Angels will be paying Ohtani’s former team in Japan, the Nippon Ham Fighters, $20 million just for allowing him play in the U.S.
That's all true
On the flip side, another major leaguer on hearing what Ohtani was making shrugged and said just about all players at age 23 are making the min.
His manager in Japan though this was a good early move because he was dominating the league in Japan. His manager said Ohtani needs a challenge to get better
His stuff was amazing today
5th inning, 3 strikeouts on 13 pitches.
incredible
