tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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January 9th, 2015 at 12:57:53 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Did you read the last paragraph of the article?



Apparently not. I did read most of it...lol
Romes
Romes
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January 9th, 2015 at 1:32:11 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I know programming. I also know English, and that makes it not quite as funny. (There shouldn't be apostrophes in "INTs or DOUBLEs".)


Oh go review my 479 posts, I'll take action that anything not posted from a phone (vegas trip report) is 99% literate and grammatically correct. This should buy me a pass. Now laugh at my joke...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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January 9th, 2015 at 8:37:33 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Then again, don't most props involving FGs/TDs include conditions saying that PATs don't count for those? If so, then, since there is almost certainly no such condition on the safety/no safety one, I would think that it would count anyway.



Yes, they do. I think if there were a safety as a result of a botched extra point, then it would be considered as an independent score.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
kewlj
kewlj
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January 9th, 2015 at 8:47:16 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes, they do. I think if there were a safety as a result of a botched extra point, then it would be considered as an independent score.



How can there be a safety as a result of a botched extra point? It would have to involve a loss of like 97 or 98 yards on the play? Is that what you are talking about.

A blocked extra point returned 90-some yards would be 2 points for the blocking/returning team, but that is not called a safety. I suppose there is an unlikely scenario where a team blocks an extra point returns it 90 some yards and then fumbled just before they get to the endzone with the ball going into the endzone and recovered by the original kicking team. But that would involve change of possession and not be a safety either.

I feel like I am probably missing something obvious that you were referring to. Can you enlighten me.
kewlj
kewlj
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January 9th, 2015 at 9:00:03 PM permalink
I feel like using safety statistics for ALL games is a bit skewed. Not sure exactly how to express this though, but more or less it is because the superbowl is a different beast. The issue of a safety is more on the minds of everyone, including players ad coaches, because of the popular superbowl exotic wagering.

Defensive players always want to record a safety. But doing so in a superbowl, where they know there is that unusual interest, would be something really extraordinary. I guess I am suggesting they may try a little harder in such a circumstance. I know some will argue that.

Then there is the coaches. There are times in many football games, where taking a safety would actually be a beneficial move and yet it is rarely done. The obvious type scenario is one team leading by 6 points, and backed up, 4 down at there own 1 or 2 yard line. You are at risk of a punt block immediately changing the game, or less severely, a quick short punt (because of lack of punting room) resulting in extremely positive field position for the other team. taking a safety and moving out to the 20 yard line for a free kick, is extremely beneficial as far as likely field position at almost no cost, 6 point lead reduced to 4 point lead, meaning it will still take a TD to beat you.

Now all teams know this, but you just rarely see a coach make that decision. But in a superbowl, I just feel like he is more likely to consider that option.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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January 9th, 2015 at 9:05:01 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

How can there be a safety as a result of a botched extra point? It would have to involve a loss of like 97 or 98 yards on the play? Is that what you are talking about.

A blocked extra point returned 90-some yards would be 2 points for the blocking/returning team, but that is not called a safety. I suppose there is an unlikely scenario where a team blocks an extra point returns it 90 some yards and then fumbled just before they get to the endzone with the ball going into the endzone and recovered by the original kicking team. But that would involve change of possession and not be a safety either.

I feel like I am probably missing something obvious that you were referring to. Can you enlighten me.



http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/20556-no-safety-no-overtime-superbowl-bets-out-wizard-what-will-you-do/8/#post422780

The defense is forbidden to score in the NFL on a conversion, but the offense can gain a one-point safety if they tackle the defense in their own endzone. I didn't think this was an NFL rule either until corrected today.
kewlj
kewlj
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January 9th, 2015 at 9:19:16 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/20556-no-safety-no-overtime-superbowl-bets-out-wizard-what-will-you-do/8/#post422780

The defense is forbidden to score in the NFL on a conversion, but the offense can gain a one-point safety if they tackle the defense in their own endzone. I didn't think this was an NFL rule either until corrected today.



Thank you, Tringlomane. I thought the defense could score on a conversion. I stand corrected.

Now, this brings up an interesting issue. If there is such a thing as a 1 point safety and apparently there is, I wonder if there is any kind of stipulation by the sportsbooks (small print) regarding this when it comes to the "safety wager". It wouldn't surprise me.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy 
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January 9th, 2015 at 10:35:41 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

How can there be a safety as a result of a botched extra point? It would have to involve a loss of like 97 or 98 yards on the play? Is that what you are talking about.


In the NFL (and high school, except in Texas and Massachusetts), it can only happen as a result of a technicality. If the ball ends up in, or going out of, the defense's end zone and the defense was responsible for the ball entering the end zone after it was loose, it is a safety against the defense. For example, the ball is knocked out of an offensive player's hand at the 1/2-yard line and it's knocked away from the end zone, but a defender tries to recover it (to prevent the offense from picking it up and scoring) and knocks the ball back toward the end zone, where another defender falls on it. Since the loose ball wasn't headed toward the end zone until a defensive player changed its direction, the defense is considered "responsible" for the ball being in the end zone, and it would be ruled a safety.
thecesspit
thecesspit
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January 9th, 2015 at 11:10:43 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/20556-no-safety-no-overtime-superbowl-bets-out-wizard-what-will-you-do/8/#post422780

The defense is forbidden to score in the NFL on a conversion, but the offense can gain a one-point safety if they tackle the defense in their own endzone. I didn't think this was an NFL rule either until corrected today.



Not correct... the offence can get a 1 point safety ONLY if the defence bats the ball out of their own endzone. A PAT (or Try as it is the rule book) is over as soon as the defence gains possession.

EDIT : Sorry, ThatDonGuy also points out a recovered fumble and subsequent tackle in the endzone might be a 1 point safety as well, depending on the impetus given before entry into the endzone.

Though I am not sure how you down a defensive player in the end zone for a safety in this instance as the play is over as soon as they recover the ball... so as the ball is dead as soon as they recover, the offence can't down the player for the safety.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Dalex64
Dalex64
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January 10th, 2015 at 5:17:54 AM permalink
The play ends when the defense has possession. No need for the offence to tackle. If the play ended in the defender's end zone, it is either a touchback or a safety, depending on how the ball got there.

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