Does EV+ exist online?

or do you really have to stalk machines in person?

also say you had $100 to blow everyday, what games would you play for a sick payout? the return or profit doesn’t really matter much, just a big lump sum 😂

There was one online place where the jackpots were out of control and you could turn what you started with on their slots into mega play money. Maybe it was called The Big Jackpot but I can't link it for spam reasons and I've forgotten about it in so many years. The payback was over 10 billion per cent if that makes any sense. But you have to make a habit out of it and keep playing every day and winning some jackpots.

I'm going to assume that he is seeking a game where the player can cash out.
If memory serves, "The Big Jackpot" is a social casino that does not allow cashout withdrawals.

Quote: cheddachaser

or do you really have to stalk machines in person?

also say you had $100 to blow everyday, what games would you play for a sick payout? the return or profit doesn’t really matter much, just a big lump sum 😂
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+ev online is easy with promos.

You can even set it to autoplay on your phone so you can let it run while you're at work.
There might be even autoplay with basic strategy for bj.
With autoplay, you can go thru 1000+ hands/hr in vp

Sign up with all the links you find on this site.
print $$$ like every else (till they stop offering you promos like everyone else because your printing $$$)

well and this is a bit offtopic but rather I am seeking a game or bet that even if it has a negative expectation, you can also expect some big hits.

any workingman knows that, ur $100 here and there, it’ll get spent

ur not saving $50,000 this way.

theres people with 100k+ a year jobs that become housepoor, carpoor, kids etc and can barely save money.

So…i come here to see what ya’ll think the best plays are.

for all i know it’s sniping baccarat 3-7 streak parlays—all in each time.

or maybe its kitty glitter or some stupid crash game.

the point is, $50,000 cash is a lot more powerful than the random $100 here and there.

even if i’d burnt $80k to get there, thats sorta besides the fact.

i suppose i could care less if its EV+ at this point lol

meant to reply—-ooops!

Draft Kings Casino has some demo games you can practice on and you can attempt to develop some homemade strategies to keep your RTP above 100%. It's not for people who have a reckless disregard for their own methods, but they will have to change course so often. It seems these online games crank up the level of difficulty after initial wins come through and you'll have to change your strategies often as the easy wins turn into non-stop losses.

Quote: ChumpChange

Draft Kings Casino has some demo games you can practice on and you can attempt to develop some homemade strategies to keep your RTP above 100%. It's not for people who have a reckless disregard for their own methods, but they will have to change course so often. It seems these online games crank up the level of difficulty after initial wins come through and you'll have to change your strategies often as the easy wins turn into non-stop losses.
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Many online casinos have games that behave differently for free games to paid games. I would also assume some play differently from one denomination to the next.

the rocket one by hacksaw is…interesting

feels like certain multipliers come up more often than they should… done some backtrsting on 1000s of rounds but could still just be within the realms of varience

In the past there have been persistent state slots online where the initial setting was positive EV. Golden Egypt and The Monkey Prince come to mind. AFAIK it's been years since the casinos have made this mistake, but I'm not on the lookout for such things anymore so maybe there are opportunities still out there.

Short answer: no, not in any meaningful way equivalent to physical AP.

The entire premise of advantage play on physical slots is exploiting machine state — a progressive jackpot that's mathematically above its break-even point, or an accumulated bonus (Dragon Link, etc.) that another player built up. That state is tied to the physical machine and observable on the floor.

Online slots reset between sessions or are RNG-based with no persistent state that carries between players. Even online progressive networks (like Mega Moolah) have no public information about the jackpot's break-even threshold — you can see the jackpot amount but not the contribution rate or expected hit value needed to calculate EV.

The closest online equivalents:
1. Welcome/deposit bonuses with favorable terms — some have positive EV before wagering requirements if you pick the right game and the math works out
2. Online poker (not slots) — pure skill edge exists
3. Sports betting with line shopping — +EV exists if you identify soft lines

For the "big payout" question: online progressives give you the largest possible single-session win for a given bankroll, but the EV is still negative. You're just trading expected value for variance. If the goal is a life-changing payout and you're willing to accept near-certain loss, a Mega Moolah or similar jackpot network game is the answer — just understand you're paying for the lottery ticket, not an edge.

Quote: SlotStrat

Online slots reset between sessions or are RNG-based with no persistent state that carries between players.
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I wouldn't make that statement quite so broadly.

I agree that online persistent state is a different problem from physical AP, because in many cases the state isn't shared between players or visible for someone else to pick up. But that doesn't mean the state isn't persistent.

What I've repeatedly found online is player-specific state: progress that remains attached to the same account/game, sometimes independently by stake or denomination, and can survive reconnects or later sessions.

For me, that creates a different research question. I don't primarily look for a state that another player has left behind. I look at whether the same player can create a state, leave it, return under different conditions, and still find that state intact.

Then there is another layer that I think is particularly under-discussed online: the wallet.

Once a state is confirmed as genuine, I test what happens when the funding source changes — particularly from promotional balance to cash balance — and what exactly causes that state to reset or be consumed.

So I'd separate two things:

Persistent state that carries between players may be uncommon online.
Persistent state tied to an individual player absolutely exists.

Whether a particular persistent state actually creates +EV is then a separate question from whether the state persists.

Have you tested the same logged-in player across sessions, stakes or wallet changes, rather than looking specifically for state that transfers between players?

I've found it to be standard that persistent state applies to an individual's account and the games they have played. This doesn't create +EV opportunities in the same way as in bricks and mortar casinos. If I need the other players to build a pot to a certain level before it's worth playing, they can't do that for me if the only player I share persistent states with is myself.

On the other hand, years ago when I did a lot of online casino bonuses, this could be exploited in my favour. If I had a bonus offer to deposit £100 to get a £50 bonus, with a wagering requirement of £4500, the best way I could use the bonus was to play on a persistent state game and build it up until either:
a) The wagering is complete and I can withdraw the remaining balance; or
b) My balance hits 0, the wagering requirement is removed and the bonus is over. Then wait until a later date and go on and play non-bonus money on the game which I'd built up.

I imagine the online casinos are long since wise to this.

Quote: blackjacklad

Then wait until a later date and go on and play non-bonus money on the game which I'd built up.
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That's exactly the behaviour I'm referring to.

What's interesting is that I don't think it has disappeared completely — it's just become much more implementation-dependent.

In my testing, I've found a big difference between a casino simply excluding certain games from bonus play and the underlying game state actually being tied to the balance that created it.

In some implementations, the state resets, in others the bonus restrictions prevent you from building it in the first place, and in others the stored game state can still survive independently of the wallet transition.

That's why I've ended up treating these as two separate systems:

1. the persistent state maintained by the game/provider
2. the promotional/cash wallet logic maintained by the operator

The interesting cases are where those two layers don't line up in the obvious way.

I also agree with your first point — this isn't the same model as physical AP where you're waiting for another player to leave value behind. Online, the interesting state can be entirely player-specific.

Do you remember roughly when you were doing this, and whether you found the behaviour fairly consistent across providers, or was it only certain games?

It was in 2020 or earlier. Most of the most popular sites at the time allowed it technically (though it was against the terms and conditions of the bonus). I recall getting a bonus each day from 32red. Video poker was excluded from the wagering requirements of the bonus, however that didn't mean I couldn't bet on various VP games with the bonus cash then leave them with a good hand dealt.

Quote: blackjacklad

Most of the most popular sites at the time allowed it technically (though it was against the terms and conditions of the bonus).
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That's interesting, because I can confirm that the underlying behaviour isn't only historical.

I'm still testing current online slots in 2026, and I've found many current games where genuine player-specific persistent state still exists.

What seems to have changed much more is the operator side: bonus restrictions, wallet implementations and the conditions under which that state can be created, retained or later resolved.

That's why I tend to separate two things:

1. The game/provider state — what the slot actually stores for the player.
2. The operator wallet/promotion state — which balance is being used and what restrictions the casino applies.

Those two layers don't always behave as if they were the same system.

So while operators are clearly much more aware of these mechanics today, I wouldn't say the underlying behaviour has disappeared. There are still plenty of current titles worth investigating from a persistence point of view.

Your VP example is actually a good illustration of the distinction: being excluded from wagering requirements and being technically prevented from retaining a game state are two different things.

Quote: blackjacklad

In the past there have been persistent state slots online where the initial setting was positive EV. Golden Egypt and The Monkey Prince come to mind. AFAIK it's been years since the casinos have made this mistake, but I'm not on the lookout for such things anymore so maybe there are opportunities still out there.
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Ocean Magic was another notorious example. There is a more recent example of +EV starting state that just got fixed by the game designer in July, but I am not allowed to disclose the game name or specifics.

Scarab has persistent state for each user at each denomination that is stored per user account. You cannot take over persistent state of another player. You can play Scarab from the starting state and achieve a higher initial RTP than the long-term Scarab RTP. To prevent this, Scarab was modified a few years ago so that every denomination starts after game 1 of 10 looking like this:


You can usually still find Scarab machines at game 10 of 10 in B&M casinos. Scarab can be return big jackpots:


I don't know the non-US market. In the US market, there are hundreds of progressives shared between players. A lurker on this board wonged into one of these progressives repeatedly (and with friends and family) and made 7 figures this year. They all got their accounts frozen, but they got paid in the end. The progressive was not available to me, and I only heard about it after the site figured it out and changed the progressive mechanic to prevent this exploit. The exploit was only possible because the site was very greedy, but also very stupid in how they tried to rip off players.

There are still plenty of existing or potential exploits online. If you think you have an inkling that an online slot might be exploitable, but cannot do the math, send me a DM.

Quote: Mental

In the past there have been persistent state slots online where the initial setting was positive EV. Golden Egypt and The Monkey Prince come to mind. AFAIK it's been years since the casinos have made this mistake, but I'm not on the lookout for such things anymore so maybe there are opportunities still out there.


Scarab has persistent state for each user at each denomination that is stored per user account. You cannot take over persistent state of another player. You can play Scarab from the starting state and achieve a higher initial RTP than the long-term Scarab RTP. To prevent this, Scarab was modified a few years ago so that every denomination starts after game 1 of 10 looking like this:

I understand why this is good offline but it is one ten spin sequence we are talking about here online the majority of which won't yield an edge. Then multiply by coin levels and casinos and maybe outs if you do that. In the Scarab case by implication you seem to be talking about single-digit edge: going to an initial 1 of 10 wipes out the edge suggesting it wasn't that big in the first place.

Don't get me wrong what you are doing is very clever: just seems like it is horrendously impractical for all but the mega-bankrolled?

The variance is insane with these things. During covid I found something far more blatant online: a slot with a roving wild. The default initial state was a wild on the 5th reel. That's gotta have a huge edge. Lost thousands on it betting into it on every coin denomination I could stand at every casino I could get money down. Nothing wrong with the play I just never hit a 5 of a kind or a bonus round which is quite probable over a few hundred spins.

Unless I'm missing something here? You haven't mentioned how you would reset the game online, if at all, if the op actually still existed.

I've beaten most things which can get beat, don't recall any practical method of beating slots straight-up without a promotional offer. In theory prog jackpots could do it but the variance is impossible to manage for all but a large syndicate.

SlotLemur, what state are you in? If you are in a legal US casino state, free money is yours for the taking.

I did not suggest that I knew how 'reset' online Scarab. I don't. Farming online Scarab initial-state EV was never an ongoing play and now it is a DOA play. Playing Scarab for up to 10 spins at $750 a spin requires a large bankroll or a loss rebate. My first lifetime ban was from triggering a bonus round on Scarab at $375 a spin on a newbie deposit bonus. I only use it as an example because it is a dead play and nobody will be mad that I am talking about it.

I do know of one game where the initial state can be 'reset' just by refreshing the game, but the hourly rate is too low to be of interest to me. The refresh times for most online games is quite slow, the max bet for this particular game is too low, and the edge is too small. It also looks fishy if the casino is watching.

Quote: Mental

I did not suggest that I knew how 'reset' online Scarab. I don't. Farming online Scarab initial-state EV was never an ongoing play and now it is a DOA play. Playing Scarab for up to 10 spins at $750 a spin requires a large bankroll or a loss rebate. My first lifetime ban was from triggering a bonus round on Scarab at $375 a spin on a newbie deposit bonus. I only use it as an example because it is a dead play and nobody will be mad that I am talking about it.

I do know of one game where the initial state can be 'reset' just by refreshing the game, but the hourly rate is too low to be of interest to me. The refresh times for most online games is quite slow, the max bet for this particular game is too low, and the edge is too small. It also looks fishy if the casino is watching.
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Was this a post-wager bonus you got banned from? I thought the persistent state issue would be almost irrelevant given the bustout strategy on slots is much better known? I was doing that 20 years ago. I've seen t&c which prohibit >$5 so yeah I imagine $750 spooked them lol.

I'm quite surprised any game can be reset I've checked hundreds of games and I don't recall a single one that can be reset like that. Ty for info need to keep my eyes open more.

With regard to bonus hustling I'm assuming a lot more slots can have their rtp lowered in the manner you describe if not positive ev? Might be a viable play if feature banking becomes difficult.

Quote: findingEV

SlotLemur, what state are you in? If you are in a legal US casino state, free money is yours for the taking.
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Not in US currently. I know b&m slots are easy to take down, as are us-facing casinos.