Buffalo Ascension
Poll
 | 4 votes (17.39%) | ||
| | 9 votes (39.13%) | ||
| | 2 votes (8.69%) | ||
| | 10 votes (43.47%) | ||
| | 5 votes (21.73%) | ||
| | 2 votes (8.69%) | ||
| | 4 votes (17.39%) | ||
| | 8 votes (34.78%) | ||
| | 2 votes (8.69%) | ||
| | 1 vote (4.34%) |
23 members have voted
This game is like Hexbr3aker in that the stacks are not fixed in size. The higher the stacks, the greater the ways to win and stacks at the maximum height of seven can trigger bonuses.
The game conveniently shows the player the number of ways to win, which is the product of the stacks size across all five reels.
If this product is above some certain number, the odds swing to the player's favor. "What is that number?", you may ask. My anonymous source puts that number at 3136.
Why such a specific number? 3136 = 72 * 43. Reels 1 and 5 are always stacks of 4, so 3136 is not an uncommon product for all five reels.
I already wrote up the significant rules over at WoO.
The question for the poll is where do you put the "play point" for this game? Multiple votes allowed.
Quote: Talldude90Better question, is stampede or 3x/5x games better... if it's not too late it would be an interesting poll question add...
link to original post
I played this game A LOT on my cruise last week. Tons of vulturing opportunities.
3x/5x games was always better than the stampede for me.
Which cruise line?Quote: ams288Last week on my cruise I couldn’t believe how many times people walked away from this game with all three middle stacks at their highest level…
link to original post
so col 3 maxed, and 2 other boxes above reset for total 5 boxes above reset?
3136 way has almost always been a loser for me.
maybe because my casino has the game set to minimum or near minimum return?
or maybe bad short term variance? i stopped playing at that # a long time ago.
i'll try again.
even col 2 = 6 high, col3= 7high, col 4 = reset has been around breakeven in my mind but i havent kept good records
Quote: 100xOddsWhich cruise line?Quote: ams288Last week on my cruise I couldn’t believe how many times people walked away from this game with all three middle stacks at their highest level…
link to original post
link to original post
Royal Caribbean
Quote: 100xOdds3136 ways?
so col 3 maxed, and 2 other boxes above reset for total 5 boxes above reset?
3136 way has almost always been a loser for me.
maybe because my casino has the game set to minimum or near minimum return?
or maybe bad short term variance? i stopped playing at that # a long time ago.
i'll try again.
even col 2 = 6 high, col3= 7high, col 4 = reset has been around breakeven in my mind but i havent kept good records
link to original post
6 boxes above reset 2 reels maxed. I wouldn't touch this at 3136 unless both reels were supers.
Game plays left to right so not all 3136s are the same. First rule is never think about playing if the center isn't maxed. Reel 2 and 3 maxed would be better than reel 3 and 4 maxed. This game has HUGE variance. The bonus, 3x & 5x, and regular stampede regularly pay nothing. You can walk up to this at 5400 get the super and still lose.
The only way to properly play this would be to keep detailed records including number of spins to get the super.
I never play for the center SuperQuote: ALGThe only way to properly play this would be to keep detailed records including number of spins to get the super.
link to original post
He said it is very rare to have a Super Stampede at the top of reel 2 or 4. However, if you do see that, then you should drop the Play Point. He said maybe to 2688, but didn't have much to go on with that number.
As to whether the regular Stampede or Free Games are at the top of reel 2 or 4, he said the free spins are better, but he didn't think the difference was enough to change the Play Point.
As to being one away from a bonus (stack of 7), he didn't think it was enough of an effect to change the Play Point.
149 free games at 3x/5x!
How to calc avg win amount?
Also, neither col 2 or 3 moved up in the 149 spins :(
Super Stampede (middle column) hit.
Since it was $5/spin, I was expecting a handpay.
Was yelling for the 9s to be converted!
Is 200x a good result for Super Stampede?
Then i walked away. :o
If i'm not playing 'col 3+4 full, col 2 reset' then Yes, i'm definitely not playing 'col 2+4 full, Col 3 reset'
For my low rtp (<88%) casino, i believe 3136 ways is only playable for 'col 2+3 full, col 4 reset'
Supers are very low frequency so it's hard to get good data when the closest BA Machine is 3 hours away.
Even though this is greater than 3136, I'm not playing it.
I won't play if I don't have a shot at the super.
Would you play this ($5/spin)?
Why?
Even greater than 3136 ways but even less of a chance of me playing this since NO shot at any Stampede.
Would you play it?
Why?
You wouldn't do col2+4 maxxed but col3 2 high?Quote: Sulfur5989I use to play theses but I got raped so hard on this game in my last trip so I think I'll make my threshhold much higher. like 4000+ways and a super stempede possibility.
link to original post
Quote: Sulfur5989thoses fucking regular stempede are a joke. I never got more then about 10x the bet and would put oftentimes 100x the bet just to get it. Feel like that game is mostly a waste of time and I'm not sure I'm willing to take the volatility for that little EV. Also I should note that when I hit that game I do it in the US as a non-US resident/citizen, and I keep that in mind to avoid the 1200$ threshold for taxes. With that game, when you win you can very easily get into that 1200 even at the smaller bet levels.
link to original post
If you are playing it to win, don't play it. If it is just entertainment then I understand.
1st week the slot was at my casino, i hit a big handpay.Quote: Sulfur5989thoses fucking regular stempede are a joke. I never got more then about 10x the bet and would put oftentimes 100x the bet just to get it. Feel like that game is mostly a waste of time and I'm not sure I'm willing to take the volatility for that little EV. Also I should note that when I hit that game I do it in the US as a non-US resident/citizen, and I keep that in mind to avoid the 1200$ threshold for taxes. With that game, when you win you can very easily get into that 1200 even at the smaller bet levels.
link to original post
since then, majority of sessions have been losing. (game got nerfed?)
yet im still way up because of that 1 handpay.
variance is high, just like any other buffalos variation from the manufacturer.
i havent hit the mythical 5x5x5 multipliers yet.
closest was 5x5x3 but i dont think buffalo was in the 1st column.
and ive yet to hit a stampede with multiplier. :(
Speaking of entertainmentQuote: DRichQuote: Sulfur5989thoses fucking regular stempede are a joke. I never got more then about 10x the bet and would put oftentimes 100x the bet just to get it. Feel like that game is mostly a waste of time and I'm not sure I'm willing to take the volatility for that little EV. Also I should note that when I hit that game I do it in the US as a non-US resident/citizen, and I keep that in mind to avoid the 1200$ threshold for taxes. With that game, when you win you can very easily get into that 1200 even at the smaller bet levels.
link to original post
If you are playing it to win, don't play it. If it is just entertainment then I understand.
link to original post
I'm assuming in all the buffalo versions made by them, full screen buffalo is not possible.
(Altho a double Super Stampede should get you at least 6 buffalo runs and maybe even up to 10)
Warning for profanity.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/38087-buffalo-ascension/#post888218
See rule 6.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/2-forum-rules/#post37215
Double SUPERs
Unfortunately, when the right Super hit, I cleared col 2 already. :(
Another double SUPER.
Made$ but I also got the center Super
The 2nd and 4th reels were the 3x/5x free games.
Took a while to actually hit anything, it was the 4th reel that hit first. Great bonus. Then the 2nd reel bonus ended up being a complete dud.
Normally won't try this because no middle stampede but I had Freeplay to spend.
Only got 8 games (no respin) but Broke even
My shop is a racino with lower %. I won’t play less then 4000+. But I also don’t like this machine’s volatility.
To hit the stampede or free game by getting the arrows is super hard, most of the time you have to put in a couple of hundred to trigger it and the feature pays a lame of $40 or something.
The advantage play for this game doesn’t exist. All the casinos I visit are adding more ascension machines. One of the casinos only had 2 banks, now it has 10. (Borgata in AC has 18 banks!) Why on earth do casinos add more games if they know hustlers can make money from them? Casinos made a ton from hustlers than regular gamblers, the regular gamblers even know when to quit. Every time I see slot hustlers start to play it, I start to watch their win/loss. They never quit until the state is not playable by their definition. The result is similar to my sessions - the loss is way bigger than the bonus pay.
What makes it worse, is most hustlers think they have an advantage, they don't care about the losses, they sit there and press the buttons like a pro. But overall, they are not even close to profit at all. They are just all big losers but they just never admit it.
121 games at 3x/5x!
Horrible payout so far :(
Quote: 100xOdds
121 games at 3x/5x!
Horrible payout so far :(
link to original post
if you hit the superstampede within that bonus its almost garanteed handpay, even at 1$
Quote: szaThis is so far the worst game I have played. Getting the haywire feature (big running buffalo) is the only chance you can win in that session. And most of the time, the haywire feature only gets you 4 buffalos connected, not even 5, and it pays under $100 sometimes, not even close to what you put in.
To hit the stampede or free game by getting the arrows is super hard, most of the time you have to put in a couple of hundred to trigger it and the feature pays a lame of $40 or something.
The advantage play for this game doesn’t exist. All the casinos I visit are adding more ascension machines. One of the casinos only had 2 banks, now it has 10. (Borgata in AC has 18 banks!) Why on earth do casinos add more games if they know hustlers can make money from them? Casinos made a ton from hustlers than regular gamblers, the regular gamblers even know when to quit. Every time I see slot hustlers start to play it, I start to watch their win/loss. They never quit until the state is not playable by their definition. The result is similar to my sessions - the loss is way bigger than the bonus pay.
What makes it worse, is most hustlers think they have an advantage, they don't care about the losses, they sit there and press the buttons like a pro. But overall, they are not even close to profit at all. They are just all big losers but they just never admit it.
link to original post
Great post. I never feel any desire to even check that machine because the AP army is always buzzing around it. Maybe that story about the hustler hitting 100k at Caesar’s keeps them intrigued?
You mean if i'm in a 3x/5x bonus, a Super = handpay?Quote: Sulfur5989Quote: 100xOdds
121 games at 3x/5x!
Horrible payout so far :(
link to original post
if you hit the superstampede within that bonus its almost guaranteed handpay, even at 1$
link to original post
How high of a chance? 80%? 90%?
I ask because i've seen it not be a handpay.
She was playing $1, got the big buffalo flash on screen, hit the Super, and got a 5x multiplier.
I think it was $800 for that.
She definitely didn't get a handpay when her bonus was over
Quote: szaThis is so far the worst game I have played. Getting the haywire feature (big running buffalo) is the only chance you can win in that session. And most of the time, the haywire feature only gets you 4 buffalos connected, not even 5, and it pays under $100 sometimes, not even close to what you put in.
To hit the stampede or free game by getting the arrows is super hard, most of the time you have to put in a couple of hundred to trigger it and the feature pays a lame of $40 or something.
The advantage play for this game doesn’t exist. All the casinos I visit are adding more ascension machines. One of the casinos only had 2 banks, now it has 10. (Borgata in AC has 18 banks!) Why on earth do casinos add more games if they know hustlers can make money from them? Casinos made a ton from hustlers than regular gamblers, the regular gamblers even know when to quit. Every time I see slot hustlers start to play it, I start to watch their win/loss. They never quit until the state is not playable by their definition. The result is similar to my sessions - the loss is way bigger than the bonus pay.
What makes it worse, is most hustlers think they have an advantage, they don't care about the losses, they sit there and press the buttons like a pro. But overall, they are not even close to profit at all. They are just all big losers but they just never admit it.
link to original post
I love watching AP’s in my market play and lose on these, as it tells me a lot about their intelligence and how long they will continue being an AP. These machines aren’t ever at an advantage. I’ve seen multiple occasions where everything was fully loaded to the top and players have still lost a ton of money STARTING it at that point.
Sure you hear stories about them winning but the losses are always higher. I’ve gotten into arguments with these idiots and they always claim they’re 100 percent certain they’re advantage games. These are the same people who claim wolf run eclipse is an advantage game.
In fact If you look at the rules you will see it say the odds of getting an arrow gets harder as the reels get higher.
Always a good day when a fellow proclaimed AP goes bust on these types of games.
Quote: Sulfur5989wolf run eclipse is a beatable game in the same way buffalo diamond is. However most people dont play them at the right time which can make a huge difference. Also both very volatile.
link to original post
The wolf run eclipse is also a fake AP game. The odds to hit one of the 4 progressives are mutable, which is inverse proportional to its value. The higher the progressive, the lower the change to hit, so overall, probability * payout is roughly same.
For example, when minor / mini is 10 / 25, minor is a lot easer to hit. However most of time, the bought game pays much less than your bet. The haywire feature happens 1 in about 100 according to my number. Overall it’s a losing game.
It doesn’t matter when you jump in actually, the return is roughly the same. I have seen people sitting there chasing minor for 3 hours and finally hit it at 60 and ended with a big loss. Whenever you hit it fast, do you really win that much? When minor pays like $400, you may also have to put in $200, if you get lucky and hit it fast; if not, you may need to put in $1000.
The only possible AP games are the game when the odds to hit stay the same or it gets higher. For example, 9/6 Jacks of Better with progressive royal flush. The odds to hit the royal gets higher over time due to strategy change, and when royal is high enough, the overall return is more than 100%, then it becomes an AP game.
Unfortunately, most hustlers know 0 about math, they only believe in their hunch…That’s why hustlers never play video poker games. They even don’t check UX games coz they think it’s too tedious. Checking buffalo ascension, wolf run eclipse or 3 pigs whatever it is called is a lot easier! Because all the numbers are shown on the screen like the screen of the roulette table! Casinos want to attract you to play them when they are at the higher numbers, coz that’s casino’s business model - bait you over and take your money!
Quote: szaQuote: Sulfur5989wolf run eclipse is a beatable game in the same way buffalo diamond is. However most people dont play them at the right time which can make a huge difference. Also both very volatile.
link to original post
The wolf run eclipse is also a fake AP game. The odds to hit one of the 4 progressives are mutable, which is inverse proportional to its value. The higher the progressive, the lower the change to hit, so overall, probability * payout is roughly same.
For example, when minor / mini is 10 / 25, minor is a lot easer to hit. However most of time, the bought game pays much less than your bet. The haywire feature happens 1 in about 100 according to my number. Overall it’s a losing game.
It doesn’t matter when you jump in actually, the return is roughly the same. I have seen people sitting there chasing minor for 3 hours and finally hit it at 60 and ended with a big loss. Whenever you hit it fast, do you really win that much? When minor pays like $400, you may also have to put in $200, if you get lucky and hit it fast; if not, you may need to put in $1000.
The only possible AP games are the game when the odds to hit stay the same or it gets higher. For example, 9/6 Jacks of Better with progressive royal flush. The odds to hit the royal gets higher over time due to strategy change, and when royal is high enough, the overall return is more than 100%, then it becomes an AP game.
Unfortunately, most hustlers know 0 about math, they only believe in their hunch…That’s why hustlers never play video poker games. They even don’t check UX games coz they think it’s too tedious. Checking buffalo ascension, wolf run eclipse or 3 pigs whatever it is called is a lot easier! Because all the numbers are shown on the screen like the screen of the roulette table! Casinos want to attract you to play them when they are at the higher numbers, coz that’s casino’s business model - bait you over and take your money!
link to original post
Never even chased a minor on wolf run, i only target the mini when 25+ and have had great success. Not taking unnecessary risk here.
A bit off topic, but do you think this works the same way for other progressive jackpot machines? I’ve never heard of this concept until now, but it kind of makes intuitive sense given how hard it seems to hit an unusually high progressive sometimes.. like the maxed out majors or Dragon/Lightning cash. I seem to hit them in the $500-$550 range far more often.
Quote: Roberto21The wolf run eclipse is also a fake AP game. The odds to hit one of the 4 progressives are mutable, which is inverse proportional to its value. The higher the progressive, the lower the change to hit, so overall, probability * payout is roughly same.
A bit off topic, but do you think this works the same way for other progressive jackpot machines? I’ve never heard of this concept until now, but it kind of makes intuitive sense given how hard it seems to hit an unusually high progressive sometimes.. like the maxed out majors or Dragon/Lightning cash. I seem to hit them in the $500-$550 range far more often.
link to original post
I have often wondered if higher progressives on some of the machines results in lower frequency of hitting. It's always been a thought in the back of my mind. But I do not have nearly enough data to make an informed speculation on the matter. Also, even if there is some truth to that, it's not a law of nature that the reduction in frequency is proportional to the increase. It is very plausible that a higher progressive has a somewhat lower hit frequency, but still has higher RTP, to the point where it still may be +EV at some point. But yes, that "some point" gets harder to calculate if it's not a fixed frequency.
