Golden Egypt
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28 members have voted
Quote: kgb92Perhaps this will also work at the moment that you hit the rare bonus. Yank out the card and avoid showing that win as well.
The instant you press the spin button, the RNG runs and the machine knows the outcome - any graphics you see are just some pretty lights to entertain the player. So even if the graphics take a few minutes to run, the machine knew how much you won the instant you pressed spin, and I doubt taking your card out afterwards will make a difference. I could be wrong though, casinos have been known to set up weak systems!
OM's small breasted sister.Quote: RadgedDragon Sphere sound interesting.
Way to go gamemaker! Ruin a perfectly good AP opportunity for the discerning player. May you wake up to a 1000 biting chiggers in your underwear.
Quote: mamatWhen machines are tight (e.g. Vegas), I recommend AT LEAST THREE COINS (two coins in the first three reels).
1-1-0-0-1
1-0-1-0-1
0-1-1-0-1
or better
A question: You find a 1-1-0-1-0 at 75x5c. Reel 4 coin goes wild then is done. Now you have 1-1-0-0-0 and you lost money. Do you continue playing? Or do you abandon the machine because now only 2 coins, and the 3-coin threshold condition is no longer met?
Quote: coldsteelA question: You find a 1-1-0-1-0 at 75x5c. Reel 4 coin goes wild then is done. Now you have 1-1-0-0-0 and you lost money. Do you continue playing? Or do you abandon the machine because now only 2 coins, and the 3-coin threshold condition is no longer met?
You abandon it.
Quote: WizardYou abandon it.
The value of the 1-1-0-1-0 overall on average is estimated at 1.91 per chart conditions if you always continued to play. That value would be even higher if you added a rule to abandon every time the reel 4 coin goes wild leaving 1-1-0-0-0. Makes me scratch my head a bit. Something to think about while looking for x's. Thanks!
literally multiple people sitting at machines nearby just watching me play for hours.
Disgusting!!
Some of my workers wont even gamble for me at golden egypt because they cant stand the constant vulturing aimed at them. Creates too much angst
they watch like hawks...er vultures
Quote: PokerGrinderIt must be horrible to need a vulture that bad. Sitting for 30 mins lurking for the chance at a play worth $1 in ev. Shoot me in the f*cking head 🔫
what they do is mark out the various locations of the machines in the casino and walk back and forth, settling in a chair when a potential meal is observed
they walk up to empty machines, cycle briskly thru the different bet levels and then walk away (unless they see a vulture opportunity left behind pf course)
Quote: PokerGrinderThat sounds like a horrible existence. I vulture before or after a poker session, that’s all I care to do.
I agree
But they must be eking out a profit. they are pretty consistent. I see the same faces day in, day out.
If you dont have knowledge of a different play,...
A spare few combine it with comps. they use their players card and I imagine always receiving free play amd free food from vultured positive play can add to their bottom line
Quote: PokerGrinder8 hours to make $30-$40... just get a job lol.
I am sure they would argue it is a job.
It certainly haa the feel of a job even if self-employed
It must be a new dieting technique aimed at encouraging exercise. With all that walking, perhaps its sponsored by the casino's footware store?Quote: darkoz
they walk up to empty machines, cycle briskly thru the different bet levels and then walk away (unless they see a vulture opportunity left behind pf course)
Surely people have better things to do with their lives.
Quote: PokerGrinderI don’t know what minimum wage is down south but McDonald’s pays $11.65/hour up north depending on what province you’re in. Seems like a better option.
Since I am familiar with some of the faces I see them often than not at -ev games later in the day
I do not believe these are primarily AP's living the life as opposed to degenerate gamblers that have stumbled on a way to finance a portion or all of their gambling addiction.
As such they probably dont see the time wasted on this vulture play the same way you and I do
Quote: FleaStiffIt must be a new dieting technique aimed at encouraging exercise. With all that walking, perhaps its sponsored by the casino's footware store?
Surely people have better things to do with their lives.
If they put a couple on each end of the casinos they could advertise as a exercise program.
the description goes like so
In accordance with fair gaming practices required in most legal jurisdictions worldwide, each and every game outcome is completely independent, except in cases where one spin unlocks a feature for a subsequent spin or series of spins, per the game rules. The odds of getting any particular outcome are always the same.
The odds do not vary based on prior outcomes, bet size, time of day, day of week, etc. For example, if the top award is won on a play, the chances of winning the top award on the next play are exactly the same. Likewise, prior losses do not change future odds.
The expected payback reflects the theoretical return across a very large number of plays by numerous players over an extended period of time.
For this game, the long-term, theoretically expected payback is from 92.20% to 96.18% . The results for any given player over a play session can vary widely from this long-term, expected average in either direction. The fewer the number of games played, the wider the normal variance of actual payback may be experienced.
The expected payback value is also based upon correct player choices for any games which involve main game and/or bonus game play strategy.
The maximum win on any transaction including the results of the Free Spins Bonus, plus the outcome which launched the bonus, is capped at 25000000.00.
The Free Spins Bonus is triggered when three or more appear anywhere on the reels. The player is presented with four options of free spins and multipliers. The available options depend on how many Bonus symbols were present on the reels when the bonus was triggered.
Quote: PokerGrinder8 hours to make $30-$40... just get a job lol.
If this was true there would not be a line at the IGT machine.
Quote: prozemaIf this was true there would not be a line at the IGT machine.
I looked for some golden Egypt the other night and found quite a few opportunities where the fourth reel was wild for the next two spins. The rest of the opportunities were already played off. Ugh.
The wizard doesn't cover this in his article. Is it possibly +EV to play those 4th reel Wild spins off? I have tried sometimes, and I'm not very convinced one way or the other.
Quote: tringlomaneI looked for some golden Egypt the other night and found quite a few opportunities where the fourth reel was wild for the next two spins. The rest of the opportunities were already played off. Ugh.
The wizard doesn't cover this in his article. Is it possibly +EV to play those 4th reel Wild spins off? I have tried sometimes, and I'm not very convinced one way or the other.
A standing wild in the last two reels is marginal at best.
On a related note, I was watching people play a WOF game recently with the same mechanic as Egypt and when a guy got a nice hit and wanted to get up. I overheard a civilian explain to the guy on the that he wants to take the next spin because it is a guaranteed winner. The guy was so confused... He just didn't understand how the game he was playing worked. Even ploppies learn... That's the problem with GE now... It's been out for 4+ years... I see little old ladies picking though the bets before they start hammering until they lose.
Quote: WizardThe way I did my analysis is to find those situations where the next spin is positive EV. It's possible that some slightly negative situations on the next spin could be overall positive EV if considering the possibility that bubbles will appear on the first three reels. However, I think such situations would be marginal and high in variance.
I've never seen a bubble show up on Golden Egypt.
:-)
The reality is that among the gambler- jackals a lot of, but professionals-advantage who work with the head using math there are very few
Quote: DobrijI was always amazed at the passion with which some gamblers are looking for various vulnerabilities, bugs, holes, free opportunities to win, free money, simple fraud, cheat; They want a free ticket to paradise, but they themselves do not do anything.
The reality is that among the gambler- jackals a lot of, but professionals-advantage who work with the head using math there are very few
Have you ever decided to go shopping on a specific day because the supermarket offered a buy one get one free special?
would you consider yourself a jackal because you sought something for free on the advertised day? would you consider yourself a fraudster and a cheat?
If you knew someone who went shopping at the same place on a different day and paid full price for an item you got for free on a sale day would you feel they were doing the better thing, paying more than you?
Quote: darkoz
If you knew someone who went shopping at the same place on a different day and paid full price for an item you got for free on a sale day would you feel they were doing the better thing, paying more than you?
Depends,,,,,,did they drive, walk, or ride the bus to the store?😃
Quote: MaxPenDepends,,,,,,did they drive, walk, or ride the bus to the store?😃
Like Henny Youngman at the end of his career, you need some new material
Quote: darkozLike Henny Youngman at the end of his career, you need some new material
Disagree. Bus jokes are funny.
Quote: darkozLike Henny Youngman at the end of his career, you need some new material
The classics never get old. 😃
Quote: MaxPenThe classics never get old. 😃
You are nothing but a Universal Serial Bus comedian
Quote: prozemaI've never seen a bubble show up on Golden Egypt.
:-)
He deals with so many games the mistake is understandable.
Quote: darkozHave you ever decided to go shopping on a specific day because the supermarket offered a buy one get one free special?
would you consider yourself a jackal because you sought something for free on the advertised day? would you consider yourself a fraudster and a cheat?
If you knew someone who went shopping at the same place on a different day and paid full price for an item you got for free on a sale day would you feel they were doing the better thing, paying more than you?
More like going on the advertised day and then stalking people who only want one item & claiming yours should be free since they bought one...
Quote: darkozHave you ever decided to go shopping on a specific day because the supermarket offered a buy one get one free special?
would you consider yourself a jackal because you sought something for free on the advertised day? would you consider yourself a fraudster and a cheat?
If you knew someone who went shopping at the same place on a different day and paid full price for an item you got for free on a sale day would you feel they were doing the better thing, paying more than you?
If You ask me, I don’t go to the store for a discount. But my example is most likely an exception
: )
I understand what You want to say. But this is not about products necessary for life. This is about the casino, and they go there for the money, man is driven by greed!
Errors in games have been and always will be, this song will never end. It’s just a manufacturer’s mistake, the gamblers community didn’t invent anything here, it’s not the same when they create systems or programs
Quote: Dobrij
Errors in games have been and always will be, this song will never end. It’s just a manufacturer’s mistake, the gamblers community didn’t invent anything here, it’s not the same when they create systems or programs
That's where you are wrong, this is not a manufacturer error; the machine works exactly as intended.
The idea behind the design is that the recreational player will run out of credits, but will see that there are still coins that have not been used and, as a result, will want to put more money in to get the perceived value of those coins. The only goal higher than getting the recreational player to play more is getting them to play in the first place.
The advantage player, vulture, hustler, whatever...simply comes in and plays the game optimally whereas the previous player did not. In this case, optimal play is a simple binary decision: whether or not to play at all. The previous player stopped playing when they shouldn't (EV-wise) have and the advantage player is playing when he should play.
In any case, excessive greed can often lend to poor gambling decisions; but, in general terms, being a vulture is no more, "Greedy," than is doing anything else with a goal of profit.
Quote: Mission146That's where you are wrong, this is not a manufacturer error; the machine works exactly as intended.
The idea behind the design is that the recreational player will run out of credits, but will see that there are still coins that have not been used and, as a result, will want to put more money in to get the perceived value of those coins...
Yes, on a long distance everything is OK, but in the first versions the game started with 4 “coins”. I don’t want to argue about the terminology, (with all due respect to the company), but this manufacturer didn’t know that the player will collect bonuses from run away...
Quote: DobrijYes, on a long distance everything is OK, but in the first versions the game started with 4 “coins”. I don’t want to argue about the terminology, (with all due respect to the company), but this manufacturer didn’t know that the player will collect bonuses from run away...
regardless of their game development I find it hard to believe the game is not being played as they expect.
point of fact, the coins earned are different for each bet size level to avoid the obvious AP of gaining an advantage at a low denomination and then switching tp max bet. ie, each bet size is independent of the others. something that doesnt happen at other games.
they clearly knew what they were designing.
And if the game plays as its supposed to I don't see how your argument holds water
What do you mean "they didn't know player will collect bonus from runaway"Quote: DobrijYes, on a long distance everything is OK, but in the first versions the game started with 4 “coins”. I don’t want to argue about the terminology, (with all due respect to the company), but this manufacturer didn’t know that the player will collect bonuses from run away...
By that do you mean the manufacturer made a mistake and didn't realize players would abandoned machines in positive state and there would be guys going around and making a living from it? How could they(I'll use IGT is an example) not know this since they have been designing games like this probably going back to the 80s? Perhaps it wasn't quite clear to them for a while, but after the Vision series came out in the 90's (Diamond Mine, cherry pies, and far too many other titles to mention) they would have to be total idiots not to realize this was a thing. Especially if you consider the fact that there's been numerous complaints and problems with these types of machines included but not limited to actual physical altercations. There was even a stabbing over these types of games in the past.
It's their own greed that causes the problem. They keep trying to design games that will keep the players playing longer.Accumulating bonus systems,or whatever you want to call it, seems to be their go-to way of doing this Justin different variations.
Quote: DobrijYes, on a long distance everything is OK, but in the first versions the game started with 4 “coins”. I don’t want to argue about the terminology, (with all due respect to the company), but this manufacturer didn’t know that the player will collect bonuses from run away...
If you're referring to the online thing, that was a one-time error predicated on the fact that the expectation was not that a player would simply play the positive situation and then quit playing the game. The problem was not in the design of the game, but in the fact that there was nobody else to play that, "Machine," when the first player was done. For any physical machines of this type, any starting state +EV (which mostly doesn't exist anymore) is just a drop in the bucket.
Quote: Mission146If you're referring to the online thing, that was a one-time error predicated on the fact that the expectation was not that a player would simply play the positive situation and then quit playing the game. The problem was not in the design of the game, but in the fact that there was nobody else to play that, "Machine," when the first player was done. For any physical machines of this type, any starting state +EV (which mostly doesn't exist anymore) is just a drop in the bucket.
How? An average of 10,000 from one machine if you go through all the denominations starting from high : ) Pay attention to what I wrote, in the first versions the game started with 4 coins. Are you a lawyer for IGT? : ))
I'm already losing the thread of discussion. Can you just explain what you're trying to convey?
I will explain, it seems to me that they are not seriously looking for such bonuses, this is a job for the most unskilled players :) and the fact that this inflates such discussions seems even more ridiculous
Quote: DobrijHow? An average of 10,000 from one machine if you go through all the denominations starting from high : ) Pay attention to what I wrote, in the first versions the game started with 4 coins. Are you a lawyer for IGT? : ))
I'm already losing the thread of discussion. Can you just explain what you're trying to convey?
I will explain, it seems to me that they are not seriously looking for such bonuses, this is a job for the most unskilled players :) and the fact that this inflates such discussions seems even more ridiculous
First Paragraph: Because it’s designed to be a highly negative expectation game and is in the long run, online version aside.
Second Paragraph: No, but you can read it as many times as may be necessary.
Third Paragraph: You could have deflated the discussion by having never posted about it in the first place.
Is he talking about the initial game seeding for new installs? From my understanding they cut down on the amount they were seeding them with.Quote: Mission146First Paragraph: Because it’s designed to be a highly negative expectation game and is in the long run, online version aside.
Second Paragraph: No, but you can read it as many times as may be necessary.
Third Paragraph: You could have deflated the discussion by having never posted about it in the first place.
Quote: AxelWolfIs he talking about the initial game seeding for new installs? From my understanding they cut down on the amount they were seeding them with.
That's the way I took it. But if that only the first spin on the lifetime on the machine? Who cares (unless it's huge bets)? And yes, I'm pretty sure it's not as good as 4 coins on board anymore. I'm pretty sure I have played a brand new unit before this year, and one coin were on one and three, which is marginal.
Perhaps different regions have different standards of which they have to seed them at. I haven't had the pleasure of playing a newly seeded game so my question is was it only seeded once per bet or one spin only or was it program to reseed for X number of spins after and then stop reseeding?Quote: tringlomaneThat's the way I took it. But if that only the first spin on the lifetime on the machine? Who cares (unless it's huge bets)? And yes, I'm pretty sure it's not as good as 4 coins on board anymore. I'm pretty sure I have played a brand new unit before this year, and one coin were on one and three, which is marginal.
Quote: AxelWolfIs he talking about the initial game seeding for new installs? From my understanding they cut down on the amount they were seeding them with.
Yeah, he's saying they used to start with four coins, which would be pretty massive since there are 25 different game states. Obviously, that was the huge exploit with the online thing, but in an actual casino where it's not play while it's good and then never play again, (other players) the negative EV eventually works itself out and the machine operates profitably. I could see where this might be a bigger problem on high-limit, not only because it's obviously more money, but also because the machine likely sees less (spins) action.
Anyway, I've heard four coins, I've heard five coins, I've heard Reels 1-3-5, who the hell knows what's true and what isn't? I saw some machine resets and they were one coin, Reel 3 only...maybe it was Reel 4...not playable either way.
Quote: AxelWolfPerhaps different regions have different standards of which they have to seed them at. I haven't had the pleasure of playing a newly seeded game so my question is was it only seeded once per bet or one spin only or was it program to reseed for X number of spins after and then stop reseeding?
Very first spin for every line setting/denomination.
